Quran VS Bible. - Verses Showdown.

[^Ben]

I've seen some intrest about this topic.

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=83575

And how it's "95% fact and 5% opinion" Well i'm here to show theese people the bible has exactly the same quotes and how they are not relevant to either religion. And if you use ooold irrelevant verses from the Quran to try back up your story, you should look at the bible a little more carefully.

Moral of this, don't swallow all the bullshit propoganda you hear from politicans or news.

First up.
Bliink Edit: Mutilated/fabricated quotes, but I'll leave them in because otherwise there's no debate, also, you may want to google the alleged locations of these "quotes" because you'll find the real things that are being referred to and often explanations of what they mean + their context (if its not immediately obvious) If someone wants to post a more accurate version of these quotes that can be verified, I'll do some editing and fix this thread.

Further Bliink edit: I'm only pointing this out because certain members, who are now banned, have used these identical quotes to start their own mini jihad's against muslims on these forums, and I don't want there to be any more misunderstandings

Why they kill the innocent

Qur’an 9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

Qur’an 5:33 “The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Prophet and make mischief in the land, is to murder them, crucify them, or cut off a hand and foot on opposite sides...their doom is dreadful. They will not escape the fire, suffering constantly.”

Qur’an 8:12 “I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”

Tabari IX:69 “He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and possessions from us. As for those who disbelieve, we will fight them forever in the Cause of Allah. Killing them is a small matter to us.”

Qur’an 9:44 “Those who believe in Allah and the Last Day do not ask for an exemption from fighting with your goods and persons. And Allah knows well those who do their duty.”

Honestly, "Why they kill the innocent" should be renamed "Why they kill non belivers" Well I havent really gone drudging through the bible but I have found theese verses.

"If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant, And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; ... Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
-- Deuteronomy, Chapter 17:2-3,5"

"If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst." (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

So kill all non belivers then God?

Onto the next topic "Muslims hates jews"

John 8:44: "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

In this passage, Jesus is speaking to Jews who, like the majority of the residents of Palestine, rejected his teachings. He says that they are sons of Satan.

1 Corinthians 10:20-21 "But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils." Here, Paul writes that the Gods and Goddesses of other religions are actually demons. In modern terms, they are Satanists. He taught that Christians are to isolate themselves from non-Christians.

Other quotes? There are literally 100's of examples on both sides of the fence. My favourite is the talking donkey.

So in closing, don't take something as fact without analyzing both sides. Theese verses are irrelevant to both religions and are only used as hate objects by extremists on BOTH sides.

 

[Locust]

Corinthians isn't Jesus speaking. It is Paul writting a letter to the church in Corrinth. :E

 

[ríomhaire]

nowhere in the Quran does it demand that women hide all but their faces. I says "they should hide their modosty" and it says the exact same thing for men.

 

[Lemonking]

relgion sucks anyway all of them

 

[Sheikah42]

i totally agree with lemonking

religion = segregation
religion = for the uneducated

 

[Axyon]

The instant this breaks out into flames, it will be closed, so try and keep it civil people.

 

[Razor]

This is why i am a Theist, when God teaches to love thy neighbour and not judge them and religion says to punish thy neighbour for not agreeing with your views...you can see the hypocrasy in it.

 

[burner69]

i totally agree with lemonking

religion = segregation
religion = for the uneducated

No, religion is for those who want it, and it helps many people in many different ways. Sure it causes problems, but what can ya do?

IMO religion, at least in the western world, is dying out, or at least shifting in meaning.

And by the way I'm not religious.

Peace

 

[ríomhaire]

People who kill/start wars/invade places because of religion are mostly people who would do it anyway and are just using religion to justify IMP.

 

[burner69]

By the way Ben. You done yourself proud with this topic. I can't stand racist propaganda BS.

Good karma comin ur way :cheers: :thumbs:

 

[FictiousWill]

racist propaganda

religion != race. same with nationality. nobody seems to get this.

 

[bliink]

Your "quotes" from the Quran are wrong. Your first example, is actually: " "Kill the mushriqeen (pagans, kafirs) where ever you find them."
And is in the context of a battle.

A quick google found me this: http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cach...m.org/877/FAQ/q12.asp+Quran+9:5&hl=en&start=3

It goes on to say that enemy soldiers who seek refuge should be taken in, even let free, but also that they have to be escorted to a secure, safe place first.

Not a blood thirsty religion, but those "quotes" are perpetuated by blood thirsty xenophobe morons. Not having a go at you, ^Ben, because they were already posted here, but at least double check these things, or read threads fully, because I believe the quotes were already debunked.

 

[^Ben]

It's kind of a statement post which can be used as a reference when people point out the "evil" of the quran.

I saw atleast 2 people perpetuating that post as fact.

 

[bliink]

It's kind of a statement post which can be used as a reference when people point out the "evil" of the quran.

I saw atleast 2 people perpetuating that post as fact.

Yeah. I'm not saying you were pushing them as fact or anything.. I just wanted to make it clear incase any other members start using them in fights again. :thumbs:

EDIT: plus I kinda misread your first post too sorry (but I still needed to make that point anyway, so... yay )

 

[craig]

I wrote this whole post ten minutes ago with my oppinions in it and although not really offensive in any way I realise exactly where this thread is going (i.e. christians will be more biased towards the bible and muslims more biased towards the quran) and have wiped it out.

My suggestion: Lock this thread. Religion is something you are a. really passionate about. b. don't give a shit about. And it can only end up with people arguing... especially in a thread which is bashing both holy books. I mean most wars are either over greed, or religion...

 

[mortiz]

Religious nuts ( maybe that's too strong a word ) can go on believing what they want from that book or any other book they so choose, as long as they don't put their Jesus on my penis.

 

[jondy]

Although I wouldn't say no to the virgin Mary.

 

[DreamThrall]

Cheers to ^Ben and Bliiink :thumbs: ... I always knew all that about Islam being inherantly violent was rubbish, its just nice to see it actually debunked. :cheers:

 

[K e r b e r o s]

This thread should be closed. We do not need an international community seperated because of Religious beliefs and attacks.

 

[MjM]

This thread should be closed. We do not need an international community seperated because of Religious beliefs and attacks.

He's refuting BS people have been perpetuating about the Quran. And illustrating that the Bible and Quran are no better or worse when it come to literal content.

Assuming he is accurate with his post. He is doing a good thing. Cant people see that?

I see no reason atm why this thread should be closed.

 

[Sparta]

This is why i am a Theist, when God teaches to love thy neighbour and not judge them and religion says to punish thy neighbour for not agreeing with your views...you can see the hypocrasy in it.

Yes, you can really see the hypocracy of two different people who wrote two different rules from teachings of two different periods put into the one book.

 

[KoreBolteR]

religion = death, destruction, problems

 

[15357]

religion = The opium of the people.

 

[CptStern]

religion = The opium(cocaine, i think) of the people. -Unknown

opium is it's own drug made from poppy seeds ...cocaine comes from the coca plant

 

[15357]

opium is it's own drug made from poppy seeds ...cocaine comes from the coca plant

blah.

oh well, I had translated that and wasn't so sure.........

 

[CptStern]

your analogy still works though

 

[X_i_Z_o_R]

religion = The opium of the people.

That's a great quote from Karl Marx Certainly true in my opinion

 

[Pesmerga]

The only reason that Islamic women hide their faces is because they are BUTT UGLY.
It's a middle eastern thing. All their women are ugly, and their men are proportionally handsome (not MY judge, of course, although I see where the analysis comes from)

 

[15357]

That's a great quote from Karl Marx Certainly true in my opinion

w00t! I finally found the guy who said that!

The only reason that Islamic women hide their faces is because they are BUTT UGLY.
It's a middle eastern thing. All their women are ugly, and their men are proportionally handsome (not MY judge, of course, although I see where the analysis comes from)

I'm just not gonna say anything.....

 

[JellyWorld]

religion = The opium of the people.

During the time period when Karl Marx said that opium was widely used by the poor as their only form of relaxation, to make them forget their troubles and escape from reality for a while, a painkiller of sorts. He was referring to how religion was the only solace to most of the poor who spend their entire lives slogging away, a promise of a better afterlife, not about how it was an indulgent vice which caused harm to people.

 

[15357]

During the time period when Karl Marx said that opium was widely used by the poor as their only form of relaxation, to make them forget their troubles and escape from reality for a while, a painkiller of sorts. He was referring to how religion was the only solace to most of the poor who spend their entire lives slogging away, a promise of a better afterlife, not about how it was an indulgent vice which caused harm to people.

ooh, where did you learn that?

 

[burner69]

ooh, where did you learn that?

Tis the Marxist theory on religion. I think I kinda side with it too...

 

[saracen]

Why they kill the innocent

Qur’an 9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

Qur’an 5:33 “The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Prophet and make mischief in the land, is to murder them, crucify them, or cut off a hand and foot on opposite sides...their doom is dreadful. They will not escape the fire, suffering constantly.”

Qur’an 8:12 “I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”

Tabari IX:69 “He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and possessions from us. As for those who disbelieve, we will fight them forever in the Cause of Allah. Killing them is a small matter to us.”

Qur’an 9:44 “Those who believe in Allah and the Last Day do not ask for an exemption from fighting with your goods and persons. And Allah knows well those who do their duty.”

These have been wrongly translated. Why don't you pick up a Yusuf Ali translation?
For a muslim God 's law must be implemented throughout the world through initially peace and dialog, if the leader of that country refuses dialog and does not allow for the practice of Islam in that nation for absolutely no reason (assuming the muslim ambassador has been convinced why islamic law should be implemented) then armies can roll in and no civilian (child,women, men) should be hurt. The non believers can practice what ever they want and are treated EXACTLY the same as a muslim. Its JUST the law that matters.
Every single human being is equal before islamic law whether being white, black or brown skinned or having different religions. That is the honest truth coming from me a proud muslim....


“Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

I know from Tafsir that verse is referring to when your land is being occupied and you are being oppressed..... Stop taking things in the middle of a 'sentence'.

The religion of islam makes total sense to me assuming one is intellectually convinced that God exists and the quran is his word. The rest fits in like a puzzle!!!

 

[saracen]

If God does exist then what do u think he will do to people who don't obey his laws that have passed down from firstly the Torah (changed because people had hypocrisy in their hearts ), The Gospel (Changed thanks to St Paul) and now the Qur'an which is now God's completed polished religion...

Theoretically Islam should have the exact same message as the Torah and the Gospel but it is human beings that have wronged themselves not the religion of God....