Ragdoll Question

[Sparta]

That last thing you said about checking twice to see if they're dead. I heard that happens in Doom 3, i hope it happens in HL2 as well, that would be awesome. I've always always wanted to see a game where this rag-doll effect happens (First Person ragdoll kinda thing) it would just make gameplay so much cooler. I'd love to see enemies with this "Dynamic" RagDoll effect kinda thing that said they have on the Havok website ,instead of just set animations and a rag-doll when they die. It would be so cool because you see all these realistic motions with the Inverse Kinematics, Forward Dynamics, Physics , Ragdoll, everything it would be totally cool as. It makes me wonder if in the future technology will get to a point where the AI will be so advanced it wont need preset animations. It coded so it does everything itself. Walking, jumping running crawling swinging everything it would be totally awesome. Of course this is years and years off but it would be totally awesome

 

[Yakuza]

Easiest way to alleviate the problem: Disable player-controlled movement while in ragdoll mode. So say you get hit by the car and go flying; the player can no longer control which way they're moving. They see their own body go flailing, and hit the ground. Then, once Source detects that the player's body is no longer moving, it starts a "get-up" animation, likely through Inverse Kinematics or Forward Dynamics. Once the player's body is fully "up", the player resumes control.

The problem is here.since ragdoll is completly random having a "get up" animation would look jerky and un natural, the player would SNAP to the begging of the first get up animation.

It is interesting though. I know freedom Fighters did this. When threw a gren bodies went flying but they didn'y always die. They would do a "get up" animation. The did it pretty well to, the animation wasn't such a big snap.

 

[Yakuza]

the problem is the animation between the ragdoll on the ground and the crouch animation, maybe there could be a smooth new skeletal animation system, otherwise it would seem almost like a glitch(ragdoll magically suddenly turns into someone crouching, and with the unpredicablity from physics it would be very visable).

guess I should have finished reading the page.

 

[Brian Damage]

I'd love to see enemies with this "Dynamic" RagDoll effect kinda thing that said they have on the Havok website ,instead of just set animations and a rag-doll when they die. It would be so cool because you see all these realistic motions with the Inverse Kinematics, Forward Dynamics, Physics , Ragdoll, everything it would be totally cool as. It makes me wonder if in the future technology will get to a point where the AI will be so advanced it wont need preset animations. It coded so it does everything itself. Walking, jumping running crawling swinging everything it would be totally awesome. Of course this is years and years off but it would be totally awesome

People are already working on that kind of thing, one guy has developed a system where a simulated humanoid with a simple neural net can actually learn to walk, even learning to compensate if a limb is removed...

The article I read says that the technology could be used in games within two or three years...

 

[Netherscourge]

I think what would happen is that you being the attacking player, would SEE the graphic of Ragdoll Physics being performed on your target. But ME as your target would just see the usual red blotches when I was hit.

It wouldn't be a real-time reaction that both of us would see/experience. You would see my arm flinch if you shot my arm, but I would just see a red blotch and maybe a thud.

 

[Wilco]

The problem is here.since ragdoll is completly random having a "get up" animation would look jerky and un natural, the player would SNAP to the begging of the first get up animation.

It is interesting though. I know freedom Fighters did this. When threw a gren bodies went flying but they didn'y always die. They would do a "get up" animation. The did it pretty well to, the animation wasn't such a big snap.

You can use Inverse/Forward Kinematics (Cant remember which 1, Inverse methinks) to move it back into position for the get up canned animation to start. I think HL2 might have some ingame capability to do this, not sure.

 

[The Brick]

Well, about that fp ragdoll thing, in most games you don't see ur legs and body when you look down (neither in hl2). Then when you die, you would see ur body 'plops' out of nowhere. THAT would be weird.

 

[Flyingdebris]

okay, as for the get up animation, assuming the target of an explosion survives. i don't think it would be that hard. Make 1 animation for when the target lands on its back, and another for when the target lands on its face. Make a handful of custom animations for situations like landing against a solid object or landing in water.

and bingo you make about 8 or so get up animations and use physics blending to make it smooth.

anyway why so much concern over the jerkiness of a get up animation. the original halflife didn't even have a climbing animation aside from running *into* the ladder.

 

[Cutey_Kaite]

Do you think that they are going to have a ladder climbing animation when playing online? Because then it wont look that good

CS Player 1 "Oh shit, check it out the guy is flying up the ladder!"
CS Player 2 "Shit d00d thats so 1337!"
CS Player 1 "Lets see if I can do it, just a sec let me just get this ladder, put it against the wall there and OH SHIT...!"
*CS Player 1 Has Diconnected*

 

[vann7]

well .. im not really sure ,if i understand the question in this topic.. but to ask for Blended animations in ragdolls .. is to ask for non-linear animations.. Ex.. the ability to easily [add] or [interpolate] more animations inside the ones already made by valve. thats is called non-linear animations. and it will be VERY@@NICE!! if a game ships with tools to do that on the Fly.
otherwise ,for custom animations ,you will need to Drop completly the animations that valve has done in characters ,and do your own. wich not only is FAr more work ,but also you will need match atleast the quality of the animations done valve.

BTw.. on a similar note..
If you thought Hl2 Physics were impressive, you need to see MEdal Of Honor : Pacific assault videos.. because the use in Physics in that game is more aggressive that any other game ,including the E3 videos of Hl2. they also use the HAvok engine..

Physics
http://www.3dgamers.com/dl/games/medalofhonor2/mohpa_tech_101703_2_hi.mov.html

Terrain
http://www.3dgamers.com/dl/games/medalofhonor2/mohpa_tech_101703_1_hi.mov.html

here other must see videos.. for character animations/and gameplay.
http://www.3dgamers.com/games/medalofhonor2/

 

[SilentKilla]

wut i want to know is if physics and animations could be blended, like have the animation take place but have it also interact with objests.or soemthing. or if it like knows your going to die from falling and starts and animation of u falling to your death, but still have u looink in fps.

Yes, even the Unreal engine does this. Like in ravenshield when you die, and slide off of a roof, and your still in first person, you can watch yourself from first person view fall and hit the ground, others watching get to see the ragdoll work. Its cool.

 

[Lavrik]

lol in Raven shield i was standing in a window it was like begining of round i turned around to look through and got shot through it anyways i plopped with my upper body outside hanging on window frame it looked so cool in first person and in third it looked cool too.

 

[Flyingdebris]

actually climbing ladder animations are very very common now adays and they look alright. Hell i've seen quake 3 mods use convincing ladder climbing animations, battlefield has climbing animations, avp 2 has climbing animations, just about any modern FP shooter has climbing animations. to say that hl2 shouldn't have climbing animations is crazy

 

[zwingly]

It would be even better if the enemies could actually use the damn ladders, how many times have we seen highly trained killers be foiled by a simple ladder? Thankfully it appears that HL2 will have rectified this, for we all saw the Combine soldier scaling a ladder to confront Alyx & Freeman in the 'Tunnels' video. Unless of course that was scripted, which I sincerely hope isn't the case.

 

[Flyingdebris]

i think red faction 2 had made an improvement on ai a bit. they had enemies that would jump from one platform to another to chase you. i cant remember anything about stairs though

 

[zwingly]

I think Kingpin was the first game to have enemies jump from platform to platform. Oddly the idea didnt catch on.

 

[slicktick]

I believe that it was stated by valve that in hl2 enemies would be able to climb ladders, and i heard something about climbing thru vents but im not sure on that one, might just be my imagination

 

[PvtRyan]

I believe that it was stated by valve that in hl2 enemies would be able to climb ladders, and i heard something about climbing thru vents but im not sure on that one, might just be my imagination

I remember Valve saying quite a few times that enemies can go anywhere you can go. I think humanlike enemies will choose stuff like climbing ladders and vents, and aliens will for example fly or jump. Antlions can fly to places, and no this isn't a leak spoiler, it's been said by Valve in the first magazine interviews. I'm not even sure it it's in the leak.

 

[Styloid]

Do you guys think animations will react to physics in HL2? Like feet that actually walk on stairs, and animations changing when bumping into stuff (a guys sitting on top of a truck going under an overpass and having his head ripped off would be awesome)
? On one hand it seems like it would be really difficult and we haven't really seen it in HL2 or in any game really. But then how would they create a strider that walks on those huge legs without clipping into everything or how could you have crowbar duels?

 

[urseus]

In the valve thread i asked gabe if it was possible to have animations and ragdoll blended.

I used the example of day of defeat where a machine gunner is killed and his arm reaches out in agony as he dies on the ground. Things like that are as important to realism as ragdoll is. He said it was possible. So, the answer is yes.

 

[Chump]

I have a question that I think goes along with this. Probably more of the non-Linear animations stuff. When I was playing call of duty i was crouched in a trench and was shot when a couple pixles of my helmet were poking over the top. I was wondering if it would be possible to hit a key that kinda conforms you to the surface your touching, so that no part of you is poking around the corner. This could include any position possible. It wouldnt totally hide you in all cases but would hide you the best your conforming intelligence sees fit i guess

 

[Flyingdebris]

you mean like flatten against a wall?

 

[Chump]

you mean like flatten against a wall?

yeah but that could inclue things like lying down on a really low wall

 

[Jhahn2k4]

In the valve thread i asked gabe if it was possible to have animations and ragdoll blended.

I used the example of day of defeat where a machine gunner is killed and his arm reaches out in agony as he dies on the ground. Things like that are as important to realism as ragdoll is. He said it was possible. So, the answer is yes.

Thanks for the info urseus, I am completely convinced that I can now make my mod. Thx. :afro:

 

[Loke]

I just hope they (the ragdolls) wont be as "loose" as in Raven Shield.

 

[PvtRyan]

I just hope they (the ragdolls) wont be as "loose" as in Raven Shield.

You mean you're not even flexible enough to lick your back or give yourself a blowjob? That's pathetic!

 

[Loke]

You mean you're not even flexible enough to lick your back or give yourself a blowjob? That's pathetic!

Yes.......

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

You mean you're not even flexible enough to lick your back or give yourself a blowjob? That's pathetic!

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Sprafa]

Why are you doing that?


UYou psted that already in 6 or 7 threads....


And you'll only get banned by doing that...

 

[Loke]

Sprafa: Who are you talking to, me?

 

[Wilco]

I have a question that I think goes along with this. Probably more of the non-Linear animations stuff. When I was playing call of duty i was crouched in a trench and was shot when a couple pixles of my helmet were poking over the top. I was wondering if it would be possible to hit a key that kinda conforms you to the surface your touching, so that no part of you is poking around the corner. This could include any position possible. It wouldnt totally hide you in all cases but would hide you the best your conforming intelligence sees fit i guess

well how do u do this? you can make yourself level with a certian point, but how do u judge that point. Assuming you can reliably find out how high the obstacle in front of you is, anyone who is above the horizontal will be able to see you anyway, so would be useless. Same with a corner, it all depends on their angle to the corner aswell.

Loke, either you or babyheadcrab, do u post that in lots of threads?

 

[Loke]

Loke, either you or babyheadcrab, do u post that in lots of threads?

Well, if he meant me, he's wrong.