Read This: What Videocard To Buy If You Want A New One. A Lot Of Help.

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ATI4EVER!

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OK, here we go.

I am the master at explaining how this stuff works. At least i think so. Peple normally write to me asking. So here: (I am so sick of posting this on so many threads)

Videocards opperate by Pipelines, much like your CPU. Videocard pipelines are very very deep and wide. The 9600xt features 4 of these pipelines, the 9800 features 8, the x800 12 and the 6800 16. Holy crap. That is a lot. Now you ask "so what?". Well when your videocard draws out something, it has to pass through the pipelines (the rule of thumb is more pipelines usually is faster) so if you have say 16 pipelines, it will do the work faster than if you have 4 pipelines. Now, these pipelines are beeing feeded by the CPU (your 1.2ghz athlon). If you have an 8 pipeline videocard with a crappy cpu, the cpu won't be able to issue enough instructions to the videocard. Pipelines are REQUIRED to be full at all costs, if they are not, all work that is currently in the pipeline will be tossed out and it has to start all over again, this results in lost clock cycles, you prbably loose some 40fps for 2 seconds. This could happen with the fastest CPU on the planet, and a 4 pipeline videocard, if the cpu messes up or something, it is very rare and it would only last 2 seconds. BUT.. if you have a 8 pipeline vodeocard with your cpu it will happen very very often.

Here is a little thing i made up myself to guide you.

4 pipeline: 1.8ghz P4 or AMD equivelent
8 pipeline: 2.4ghz P4 (w/HT) or AMD equivalent
12 pipeline: 3.0ghz P4 (w/HT) or an athlon 64 (any speed)
16 pipeline: 3.0ghz P4 (w/ HT Preferably extreme edition) or Athlon 64FX 51

Ram also matters, when i bought my 9600XT i had 256mb ram, it SUCKED. I upgraded and bought a stick of 512 mb, that helped alot.

generally you should always have at least 512 mb.

I hoped this helped.


If u have any other questions or concerns PM me post here or email me at [email protected]
 
lol thats very... err informative ;)
I will no go out and degrade to a 4 pipeline card because i dont miss out on them cycles !!!
 
My 9200 256MB totally pwns my 6800 128MB

IT IS TWICE AS GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111one
 
OK. You know what? If you're going to spam this thread making fun of my facts, go to hell. I know quite a few people who have infact bought 6800s which SUCK ASS on their computers. But you know what? If you dont care, then its fine with me. You go and shel. out a 6800 for 500 bucks and then enjoy your "great" fps on your 500mhz P3. You do that.
 
nice information man. im going to be buying computer parts soon, this helped me for sure.

edit- i never even knew that your cpu had an effect on your video card.
 
Finally someone that cared about what i had to say.

'facts' ?

from dictionary.com

"Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact; a blur of fact and fancy."

Or maybe you would just call it information. Whatever it is it help some people so dont tease me about it.
 
yes CPU speed does effect FPS but not in the way your original posts states... what that post said is total bull.... sorry :)
 
No. You are wrong. Keep arguing against me if you wish but i know im right, especially since i have DOUBLE CHECKED with magazines! Tech magazines (no, not PCgamer, TECH magazines)

Now if you think its bull i would like to see you explain better.
 
Oh that's where he is getting this mumbojumbo. :naughty:
jk
 
ATI4EVER! said:
No. You are wrong. Keep arguing against me if you wish but i know im right, especially since i have DOUBLE CHECKED with magazines! Tech magazines (no, not PCgamer, TECH magazines)

Now if you think its bull i would like to see you explain better.

Don't be so stubborn..

Look into what they are saying, including the moderator (Asus) which has an x amount of credibility.

Dictionary.com

Stub-born - Difficult to treat or deal with; resistant to treatment or effort
 
look into what who are saying? You want me to just let them tell everyone that my post is bullshit? I think not.

Stubborn? I know i have my facts or knolege straight, so im not being stubborn.
 
Anybody knows if asus is going to release a PCI-E version of the Geforce 6800 v9999 Gamers Edition
 
everyone that thinks what ATI4EVER said is false, could you also post then what is true and some scources to back you up, cause he is getting critisizm but no one has actually proven him wrong.
 
ATI4EVER! said:
look into what who are saying? You want me to just let them tell everyone that my post is bullshit? I think not.

Stubborn? I know i have my facts or knolege straight, so im not being stubborn.

Are you trying to further prove my last statement or what?
 
Grey Fox said:
everyone that thinks what ATI4EVER said is false, could you also post then what is true and some scources to back you up, cause he is getting critisizm but no one has actually proven him wrong.

We don't have to prove him wrong at all, we just can laugh at him, thats enough.
 
Seriously this isnt cool.

Drey Fox is damn right. If you are telling me im wrong, please correct me if you know the answer.

And Disturbed, well, that shows how some people are just plain retarded.
I didnt want this forum to turn liek this, I wanted to help people that would have gotten ****ed by buying something that they thought was going to be good but wasn't.

I dont know your past experience but i used to post at gamingforums.com. Honestly they are about 10 times better then you guys. Why? Becasue they are nice. If they think you have a fact wrong they willl tell you nicely WITHOUT laughing at you, not only that, but they would correct you. You actually made connections with other members becasue they were nice. Over here.....nope. I have made a couple of threads giving my opinion on how we could make these forums better, but the admins here are oh so stubborn. I mean the rules here are rediculous. I know that it is a "privalege" to post here, but i only do it becasue I dont know ehere else to post. I was banned at GF, i have a long history there and I'm not going to piss them off. I have something called respect for them. I have little to no respect for most of you guys here.
 
you don't always have to prove people wrong, sometimes they are just plain wrong.
 
You shouldn't laugh at an different viewpoint. Maybe I'm just inexperienced at graphics cards, but couldn't he be right? If you've got a slow CPU then a fast video card will run through the queue before it can be refilled. I've done hardware programming in the past and run across the same problem (where data was being processed before the sensor could refill it, and the empty queue starting giving crazy results).

"A simple but very accurate rule-of-thumb: your 3D card determines the maximum frame-rates you get in 3D games, but your CPU is responsible for the minimum frame-rates. What that means is, if you're unsatisfied with your 3D card's performance because it's slow at all times during gameplay, then your 3D card is most likely the limiting factor. But if the problem is just periodic slowdowns in only certain situations, you probably need to upgrade the CPU before the graphics card."

http://www.epinions.com/cmd-review-3C2F-15B316D9-399EFE3A-prod1

There IS a point where a system is limited by its slowest part. If you keep adding RAM without upping your CPU you'll keep filling the RAM but only process it at the same rate. If you upgrade your processor without adding RAM then you'll fill up the RAM and not be able to run more applications, no matter how much faster you make your CPU.

Plus think about what he's saying and what it means. On an old card, you may get 30 fps. On a new card, you may get 60-70 fps. Even with a 2-second long 40 fps drop, you'll still be running at 30 fps. Since the eye's framerate is 25 fps, you probably wont notice the drop unless you constantly check the numbers. But just cause you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

To AVI4EVER!: You worry about this framerate drop, but if your fps is fast enough to start with it won't matter. If I could choose between a old card that runs at 30 fps and a new card that runs at 70 fps most the time with 25 fps for a short period, I would choose the newer one. Though it might be less stable, it gives an overall better performance most of the time, and the same performance in short instances. You may want consistancy, but most people just want performance. So you shouldn't define what is "good" for other people.

Edit: Also, if you're having problems with the graphics card buffer being empty, you can increase resolution without suffering a performance hit to make sure your graphics card is receiving enough info.
 
Thank you.

Now, about that last part. Say you have an exceptionally bad hookup (htink 1.8ghz p4 with 16 pipeline 6800) you will ahve the 40fps drop all the time, therfore you will have low FPS more than High FPS.

If you've got a slow CPU then a fast video card will run through the queue before it can be refilled. I've done hardware programming in the past and run across the same problem (where data was being processed before the sensor could refill it, and the empty queue starting giving crazy results).

yes. Exactly and when that happens the card has to start processing that part all overagain and throw out the work that it has done and start fresh. (making the 40fps drop...)
 
Right...it all depends on HOW bad your CPU is. So you've got a good point. But you should probably be a little more specific that it only applies to lower end cards.

"This could happen with the fastest CPU on the planet, and a 4 pipeline videocard, if the cpu messes up or something, it is very rare and it would only last 2 seconds. BUT.. if you have a 8 pipeline vodeocard with your cpu it will happen very very often."
Sounds a bit misleading, cause it mentions "the fastest CPU on the planet", then immediately talks about issues with an 8-pipeline card. Then you go on to say that 2.4GHz (hardly the worlds fastest) will be fine with 8-pipelines. Kinda contradictory if you didn't understand all the info. Just be a little more clear next time (I do appreciate the info though).
 
ATI4EVER! said:
I'm wrong to be stubborn, I admit it... sorry guys, I have alot to learn. Sublidieminal, I love you.

Heh, sounds about right. Well I love you too.

DISCLAIMER: ATI4EVER! Did not actually say this.
 
We weren't refering to the general concept that a video card will perform worse on a slower CPU. How he attempted to present it was not technically correct, his goal was good.

ATI4EVER! said:
Videocards opperate by Pipelines
True
ATI4EVER! said:
much like your CPU
Pixel Pipelines do not work like CPUs. CPUs feed data through each stage up the pipeline and sometimes they have to clear it and start over. But each stage does something different. A video card pixel pipeline is a set of units that are the exact same. Think of a number of cylinders lined up next to each other. The more you have the more data is possible to be pumped through. They are not linear.
ATI4EVER! said:
Videocard pipelines are very very deep and wide.
There are different designs. The current pipelines are wide and shallow like you said. Although an example of a card that are not wide would be the FX cards (2x2 or 4x2).
ATI4EVER! said:
The 9600xt features 4 of these pipelines, the 9800 features 8, the x800 12 and the 6800 16.
True.
ATI4EVER! said:
Holy crap. That is a lot. Now you ask "so what?". Well when your videocard draws out something, it has to pass through the pipelines (the rule of thumb is more pipelines usually is faster) so if you have say 16 pipelines, it will do the work faster than if you have 4 pipelines.
So far so good.
ATI4EVER! said:
Now, these pipelines are beeing feeded by the CPU (your 1.2ghz athlon). If you have an 8 pipeline videocard with a crappy cpu, the cpu won't be able to issue enough instructions to the videocard.
Not technically. The pipelines are feed by the core. The CPU and gfx card just send data back and forth. I can see where you are coming from though. It's just not directly related to pipelines.
ATI4EVER! said:
Pipelines are REQUIRED to be full at all costs, if they are not, all work that is currently in the pipeline will be tossed out and it has to start all over again, this results in lost clock cycles, you prbably loose some 40fps for 2 seconds.
Very confusing here. If we are talking about video card pixel pipelines being filled up or tossed out, that is completely false. If we are talking about a CPU's pipelines being required to be full, that is also false. Probably just worded wrong. A CPU's pipeline is only cleared if it guess's wrong, to put it simply. It then begins to fill again like an assembly line (Oh no! It's not full!).
ATI4EVER! said:
This could happen with the fastest CPU on the planet, and a 4 pipeline videocard, if the cpu messes up or something, it is very rare and it would only last 2 seconds. BUT.. if you have a 8 pipeline vodeocard with your cpu it will happen very very often.
I'm not going to touch this. Very confusing as to what was ment by it.
ATI4EVER! said:
4 pipeline: 1.8ghz P4 or AMD equivelent
8 pipeline: 2.4ghz P4 (w/HT) or AMD equivalent
12 pipeline: 3.0ghz P4 (w/HT) or an athlon 64 (any speed)
16 pipeline: 3.0ghz P4 (w/ HT Preferably extreme edition) or Athlon 64FX 51
Nice basic guide although this doesn't really fly. There are a number of games that are CPU bound and most cards (regardless of number of pipelines) will perform very similar. Other games are not as or not at all CPU bound so there is a large difference in framerate between the cards regardless of CPU. You would never really get a chance to follow that guide. I think my point here is what really discounts your thread. It's good general knowledge but you can't put it into a fixed guide.
ATI4EVER! said:
Ram also matters, when i bought my 9600XT i had 256mb ram, it SUCKED. I upgraded and bought a stick of 512 mb, that helped alot. generally you should always have at least 512 mb.
True!

Also, some may not have cared for the start of the post.
ATI4EVER! said:
I am the master at explaining how this stuff works. At least i think so. Peple normally write to me asking.
I think ya just got in a trend of talking Pipelines, CPU, GFX card, and Pipelines.
Each individual thing I listed may seem like nitpicking but all together as a post it just makes for confusion when his post filled with tech terms does not come together. Just doesn't jive, since you wondered...
 
ATI4EVER! said:
I dont know your past experience but i used to post at gamingforums.com. Honestly they are about 10 times better then you guys. Why? Becasue they are nice. If they think you have a fact wrong they willl tell you nicely WITHOUT laughing at you, not only that, but they would correct you. You actually made connections with other members becasue they were nice. Over here.....nope. I have made a couple of threads giving my opinion on how we could make these forums better, but the admins here are oh so stubborn. I mean the rules here are rediculous. I know that it is a "privalege" to post here, but i only do it becasue I dont know ehere else to post. I was banned at GF, i have a long history there and I'm not going to piss them off. I have something called respect for them. I have little to no respect for most of you guys here.

Go back to them then, christ, its a damn forum, you will meet assholes in your life, learn to deal with it, jesus christ. You can make connections on a forum? Christ some of you people need to get out more. Yet again, if we made you a mod, this forum would turn into shit. If you don't like the rules, no one is stopping you from not leaving, quit bitching. I guess your "connections" with other members on GF were so good, you got banned! Ohnoes! He doesn't have respect for us, ffs its the damn internet, grow up.
 
ATI4EVER! said:
I am the master at explaining how this stuff works. At least i think so. Peple normally write to me asking. So here: (I am so sick of posting this on so many threads)

Translation: "Make fun of me. Please. Whatever I type after this has no bearing whatsoever, so just ignore it. I am begging you. Flame this thread to no end. I'm asking for it!"

It's not what you say, it's how you say it.
:cheers:
 
Seriously, I wouldn't trust someone who types like a 5-year old.
 
ATI4EVER! said:
Seriously this isnt cool.

Drey Fox is damn right. If you are telling me im wrong, please correct me if you know the answer.

And Disturbed, well, that shows how some people are just plain retarded.
I didnt want this forum to turn liek this, I wanted to help people that would have gotten ****ed by buying something that they thought was going to be good but wasn't.

I dont know your past experience but i used to post at gamingforums.com. Honestly they are about 10 times better then you guys. Why? Becasue they are nice. If they think you have a fact wrong they willl tell you nicely WITHOUT laughing at you, not only that, but they would correct you. You actually made connections with other members becasue they were nice. Over here.....nope. I have made a couple of threads giving my opinion on how we could make these forums better, but the admins here are oh so stubborn. I mean the rules here are rediculous. I know that it is a "privalege" to post here, but i only do it becasue I dont know ehere else to post. I was banned at GF, i have a long history there and I'm not going to piss them off. I have something called respect for them. I have little to no respect for most of you guys here.

Sorry for the double-post, but, maybe people wouldn't laugh at you if you didn't come off as some know-it-all jackass?
:dozey:
 
ATI4EVER! said:
4 pipeline: 1.8ghz P4 or AMD equivelent
8 pipeline: 2.4ghz P4 (w/HT) or AMD equivalent
12 pipeline: 3.0ghz P4 (w/HT) or an athlon 64 (any speed)
16 pipeline: 3.0ghz P4 (w/ HT Preferably extreme edition) or Athlon 64FX 51

Well you obviously know nothing about cpu's :rolleyes: A64's beat out P4's at well basically any speed, they even mop the floor with Extreme editions in most cases.

Not to mention its pretty stupid to compare pipelines in terms of Mhz clock to cpus :eek: :x
 
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