Realism and stuff...

[Yellonet]

I like realistic details in games. Especially realistic weapon behaviour, damage and physics, and that's the primary reason why I liked FarCry - your enemies were still humans on "realistic" difficulty who died from a shot to the head. Too bad it used "laserguns" :angry:. I know we'll be getting at least (and probably only ;() one of these holy three in HL2.

I would call the Half-Life world a semi-realistic gameworld , because: 1, You're on earth (at least partially) - which means physics that we're accustomed to.
2, You are a human and you fight the combine (among others) who are humanoids (if not human) - this should bring realistic injuries, human enemies (and the player) shouldn't be able to take a shot to the head and keep fighting.
3, You use "real" weapons, SMGs, Pistols, Shotguns - they should behave as real weapons. That means no laser-guns (unless there are one ), bullets should'nt go in a straight line nor with light-speed. And don't get me started on handgrenades... a real HG exploding in open terrain kill within 5 meters from sheer pressure, a HG in a confined space is even deadlier. The fragments are effective at a much greater distance. And HG does NOT produce a big fireball as in hollywood movies

But... judging from how HL was, I guess we'll have to wait for a nice mod before we see a game like this. In half-life your enemies didn't get smarter with higher difficulty, they just inflicted more damage and could take more damage - hopefully this will not be the case in HL2.

What do you think about all this?
BTW, how does it work in CS? If someone has full helth and armour, can he be killed with a headshot from the puniest weapon? I hope so!


- Yellonet

 

[Wildhound]

In HL2 the guns will be "laserguns" as you put it. I don't have a problem with that. I don't like having to act like a sniper, testing the wind, range and speed of motion of an opponent, in an action packed game like HL.

 

[Brian Damage]

Well, part of the HL feel was the flatline-trajectory, spark-making weapons. Removing them would partially ruin the feeling of this being a sequel to HL, if you get my meaning.

I don't want to have to adjust for windage or range when sniping. I don't want to have to wait half a second for a bullet to get to a target at super long range. Save that stuff for actual theater-of-war games, not an action-adventure FPS like HL2.

Grenades don't really make a huge ball of fire anymore, or at least, not a huge rolling conflagaration like they did in HL. Now they go "BAM!" and there's this cloud of dust and smoke (see Barricade).

Also, if you watch the vids, human enemies seem a lot less tough this time round. In Tunnels, the player is able to take them down with just a few shots from the pistol.

 

[Chris D]

I like realistic details in games. Especially realistic weapon behaviour, damage and physics, and that's the primary reason why I liked FarCry - your enemies were still humans on "realistic" difficulty who died from a shot to the head. Too bad it used "laserguns" :angry:. I know we'll be getting at least (and probably only ;() one of these holy three in HL2.

I would call the Half-Life world a semi-realistic gameworld , because: 1, You're on earth (at least partially) - which means physics that we're accustomed to.
2, You are a human and you fight the combine (among others) who are humanoids (if not human) - this should bring realistic injuries, human enemies (and the player) shouldn't be able to take a shot to the head and keep fighting.
3, You use "real" weapons, SMGs, Pistols, Shotguns - they should behave as real weapons. That means no laser-guns (unless there are one ), bullets should'nt go in a straight line nor with light-speed. And don't get me started on handgrenades... a real HG exploding in open terrain kill within 5 meters from sheer pressure, a HG in a confined space is even deadlier. The fragments are effective at a much greater distance. And HG does NOT produce a big fireball as in hollywood movies

But... judging from how HL was, I guess we'll have to wait for a nice mod before we see a game like this. In half-life your enemies didn't get smarter with higher difficulty, they just inflicted more damage and could take more damage - hopefully this will not be the case in HL2.

What do you think about all this?
BTW, how does it work in CS? If someone has full helth and armour, can he be killed with a headshot from the puniest weapon? I hope so!


- Yellonet

Half-Life 2 isn't going to be specifically about realism. There will be a lot of realism features in the game, but you have to bare in mind it is still classed as a sci-fi shooter.

That means there may be laser guns, there is aliens, some characters may take more than one shot to the head to die and your own character, in this case Gordon, may take more than one shot to the head to die.

If you imagine Half-Life, where a shot or two to the chest and a shot to the head will kill you, the game would lose it's fun, and all the way through the game it'd be battle after battle where you'd have to take several goes before actually being able to win a battle.

Half-Life 2 won't be your realistic haven, but it will have realistic surroundings and characters, so hopefully that will give you what you want in some respects.

As for CS, if you're only wearing a kevlar vest and you get shot in the head, even by the TMP (probably the weakest gun per shot) you will still die. If you're wearing a helmet though, it probably takes a couple.

 

[ItchyFish]

Well i certainly think that "laserguns" should not be in the game, i mean if your taking a moving target out with a sniper rifle from say 1 Km you dont want to just hit the target, its too easy and doesnt give you any challenge, but of course remember at close range that this isnt really going to cause a problem, not a noticable one anyway because of the natural fast speed of bullets, so this realistic weaponry isnt going to cause a problem at close range but it does include a realistic challenge in certain situations. But as Chris_D said above me, this is only a game, and a sci-fi game at that so of course the game is'nt going to be 100% realistic.

 

[Tiddalick]

My funnest deathmatch experience was with the game Blood.
Now thats about as unrealistic as you can get....

Akimbo Shotguns firing at an insane rate all while running and jumping over peoples heads.....

 

[joshsmog]

Realism is over rated, I want to have fun and don't want to worry about taking a wrong step or measuring the winds or compensating for bullet drop.

 

[Yellonet]

I loved Half-Life and I will love Half-Life even more, there's no doubt in my mind. And that has mostly to do with the atmosphere of the game. Sci-fi is gooood So I'd be the last to change the.. eh...for lack of better expressions, "HL experience". BUT, as most firefights will be on close range, and therefore not make much of a difference, realistic ballistics wouldn't detract very much or at all from the HLe, and this feature would be very positive for CS or other even more realistic mods. Not sure if you could mod this if it's not already in the code
As ItchyFish said, sniping should require some (lots of, honestly) skill.

And Chris_D, I have nothing against laser guns (such weapons should be in HL, they contribute to the HLe ), it was just a metaphor for weapons that shoot absolutely straight and whose bullets reach the target as soon as you pull the trigger.

About the human enemies being weaker.. that was my impression also.. just wanted to know it valve would go all the way...

I always played Golden Eye for N64 on easy as the enemies wouldn't die from a shot to the head otherwise


- Yellonet

 

[DvS]

I'd like to see a scenario in a (wwII or not) mod, where it's pitch black, a large valley, and most people have large caliber machine guns.... then one starts to shoot, and everyone can see the bullets travel accross the valley, slightly dropping along the way, and immediatly, the whole opposite team starts to fire at the one who fired first.

In other words, being able to see the bullets..

 

[Raptor_995]

u mean tracer fire?

Im hoping that the rag doll physics havent meant the enemies dont BLOW UP as in HL. I used to love watching gibs fly everywhere - especially from a well flung/placed satchel!

Dont get me wrong I think rag doll physics are a step up, but a grenade under the feet of a combine soldier is gonna/should make a mess

and the blood in multiplayer oooooooeeeeeeeee!

saying that I am liking CS:S's blood effects and physics.

*reminises the good ol' days of FPS gore*

 

[Yellonet]

Dont get me wrong I think rag doll physics are a step up, but a grenade under the feet of a combine soldier is gonna/should make a mess

Probably not going to happen In one of the videos Gordon shoots a guided rocket on a combin soldier and he just flies away, dead, but in one piece.

Limbs should be able to come loose. Throw a grenade into a room and see a few and arms and legs come flying out the window, that would be fun... muahahaha

When a model is "dead" we should be able to break it up in parts, maybe even break the inividual parts (Source can do this right?). This way you could do pretty much anything with a body.. cut someone in two with a laser (or a door ) for instance. Decapitation anyone?
The possibilities are endless.


- Yellonet

 

[piggy]

Gib! Gib! Gib! Gib! Gib!

 

[ktimekiller]

even hl was able to use gib mi sure source can

 

[FoB_Ed]

even hl was able to use gib mi sure source can

I think it's one of those design decisions, not a technical limitation

 

[Platinum]

whats gib?

 

[Brian Damage]

Gib (verb/noun. Gaming term):

1. (v) (of a character) To explode into assorted bodyparts upon application of a massive amount of damage ("I [gibbed/am going to gib] that lamer!").

2. A word referring to any of the said bodyparts ("The gibs flew everywhere!").

Hmmm... isn't gibbing from a grenade blast kinda... unrealistic, though?

 

[Bait]

Realism is over rated, I want to have fun and don't want to worry about taking a wrong step or measuring the winds or compensating for bullet drop.

Ineed.

Realism < Gameplay in my opinion. In a game like HL2 there is obviously going to be plenty of realism what with the crazy physics and all. But come on, we are gonna be fighting 5 storey high 3 legged mofo robot thingies. Too much realism in HL2 may be a setback, but I think Valve is smart enough to realize that.

 

[Diablo2k]

If you like realistic games, HL 2 probally wont be a game for you...

 

[Citizen 1150421]

i don't think valve is smart. if they were. then this waiting game would be more pleasent instead of this we are sending the RC in AUg no wait SEPt no wait oct. wait wait. Nov.. they wouldn't have included a script in the cs:s .. they would have better security..

they wouldn't use the password gaben so that some dickhead can get our hopes up..

sure they can make a game.. but clearly not on time, and clearly it doesn't seem to that stuff that we want. like human gibbing.

remember doom3 tried to stay true to the original and that was lame and stale.. so 6 years later if the sequal is still retaining alot of HL one then i am afraid we are in for a standard sequal rather than revolutionary...

and yes the enemy not being able to hit you at point blank is a concern.

this game is already over hyped..
and we are all hanging in the fritz

chances are this game is coming out november... and thats just lame...

 

[FoB_Ed]

i don't think valve is smart. if they were. then this waiting game would be more pleasent instead of this we are sending the RC in AUg no wait SEPt no wait oct. wait wait. Nov.. they wouldn't have included a script in the cs:s .. they would have better security..

they wouldn't use the password gaben so that some dickhead can get our hopes up..

sure they can make a game.. but clearly not on time, and clearly it doesn't seem to that stuff that we want. like human gibbing.

remember doom3 tried to stay true to the original and that was lame and stale.. so 6 years later if the sequal is still retaining alot of HL one then i am afraid we are in for a standard sequal rather than revolutionary...

and yes the enemy not being able to hit you at point blank is a concern.

this game is already over hyped..
and we are all hanging in the fritz

chances are this game is coming out november... and thats just lame...

Like you said in your signature. "You want a cool game? Make it yourself"

 

[DoctorGordon]

Ok, i say November 22nd

That was a rumored release date last year if i remember correctly

 

[Yellonet]

Hmmm... isn't gibbing from a grenade blast kinda... unrealistic, though?

Yes, if it is like in HL, but arms/legs/heads being ripped off is not.


- Yellonet

 

[Yellonet]

If you like realistic games, HL 2 probally wont be a game for you...

Well, you can like different kinds of games, right?


- Yellonet

 

[DoctorGordon]

If you want a 'realistic game' step outside your front door and play The Game of Life

 

[Brian Damage]

Yes, if it is like in HL, but arms/legs/heads being ripped off is not.


- Yellonet

Ah. From the "Arms and legs coming out the windows" thing, it sounded like you were talking about wholesale gibbing, ie: everything coming off...

 

[Yellonet]

If you want a 'realistic game' step outside your front door and play The Game of Life

Oh.. I'm sorry.. my wish that certain realistic details be implemented in HL2 primarily for future mods apparenty offended you. Again I'm sorry.


- Yellonet

 

[Yellonet]

Ah. From the "Arms and legs coming out the windows" thing, it sounded like you were talking about wholesale gibbing, ie: everything coming off...

Nah.. I was only trying to put some fun graphic images in your heads

As I stated in earlier post I'm for certain realistic details. I do not want to make HL2 into something other than it is. I like it just the way it seems.. I just want some nice features for the modders, so that I can enjoy them later on


- Yellonet

 

[ZeeM]

In HL2 the guns will be "laserguns" as you put it. I don't have a problem with that. I don't like having to act like a sniper, testing the wind, range and speed of motion of an opponent, in an action packed game like HL.

I don`t want it to have sniper rifle at all!

 

[Brian Damage]

Why make HL2 less fun for some people if you just want these features in mods? They've said that things like realtime bullets could be done in Source, it'd just take a bit of work... they don't want it in HL2, but modders could do it.

 

[Citizen 1150421]

it seems more and more like they are making a mediocore game and they expect the poor modders to spend countless socialess hours making the games they want.

i hope hl2 isn't just a source demo game you knw.
it sounds to be the case..

modders are cool and alll but i wanna see the cool features in an AAA title game not some half assed attemt which has gibbing..

i don't know.. i have revoked my pre-order. a year too long in my books. i doubt if one person revoking is gonna make a dent in thier earnings but its a protest non the less.

 

[Yellonet]

Why make HL2 less fun for some people if you just want these features in mods? They've said that things like realtime bullets could be done in Source, it'd just take a bit of work... they don't want it in HL2, but modders could do it.

How would the game be any less fun with "breakable" bodies and with enemies that actually die when you shoot them in the head?


- Yellonet

 

[MultiVaC]

it seems more and more like they are making a mediocore game and they expect the poor modders to spend countless socialess hours making the games they want.

i hope hl2 isn't just a source demo game you knw.
it sounds to be the case..

modders are cool and alll but i wanna see the cool features in an AAA title game not some half assed attemt which has gibbing..

i don't know.. i have revoked my pre-order. a year too long in my books. i doubt if one person revoking is gonna make a dent in thier earnings but its a protest non the less.

Yeah, good luck with that 'protest'.

 

[OCybrManO]

I'll just change one word in that question:

"How would the game be any more fun with "breakable" bodies and with enemies that actually die when you shoot them in the head?"

I would rather not have every gun able to take out every humanoid enemy in a single shot... especially on the higher difficulty settings. Also, what exactly does chopping up someone's body add to gameplay?

EDIT: Added this bit down here...

it seems more and more like they are making a mediocore game and they expect the poor modders to spend countless socialess hours making the games they want.

i hope hl2 isn't just a source demo game you knw.
it sounds to be the case..

Valve is only using the features that fit their idea of what HL2 should be. Not including every stupid little feature every fan asks for is a good idea. Anyway, how would it be a "Source demo" if it doesn't DEMOnstrate what the Source engine is capable of doing?

modders are cool and alll but i wanna see the cool features in an AAA title game not some half assed attemt which has gibbing..

If you want gibs or realistic bullets in HL2 just make a little mod that only changes the gibbing properties of HL2 enemies or the ballistic properties of bullets... or whatever other little effects you can't live without. That wouldn't change the overall quality of the game, would it? Then, you'd have a "AAA title game" with all of the features you want.

 

[Rupertvdb]

^precisely

 

[bam23]

Gibbing is boring, in my opinion. It's kinda stupid too. I've had situations where I've seen 2 skulls from one corpse.

 

[Yellonet]

I'll just change one word in that question:

"How would the game be any more fun with "breakable" bodies and with enemies that actually die when you shoot them in the head?"

More spectacular deaths and more variety in the whole "battle process" makes it more fun (not for everyone perhaps, but it wouldn't get worse for anyone, unless for weak-bellies who shouldn't have played the game in the first place) - this gives the game a longer life. Making the badguys stronger in weapons and health is the difficulty raiser of the past. With todays AI, I prefer seeing smarter and more skilled enemies on the higher settings instead of dumb-@ss terminators.

I would rather not have every gun able to take out every humanoid enemy in a single shot... especially on the higher difficulty settings. Also, what exactly does chopping up someone's body add to gameplay?

Same answer as above + IMO adding details and features that doesn't necissarily add to gameplay but in other ways strengthens the gaming experience, is truly the mark of a good game developer.

Besides, you could always have a on/off for each and every one of these features.


- Yellonet

 

[Bait]

To all you people who are not going to buy HL2 out of anger at Valve because of their shoddy release date-ing skills, I will remember you when I am kicking the crap out of the combine with my manipulator. Have fun playing Valu-Soft's latest PC craze "Shit-storm Rising".

 

[The Dark Elf]

Gibbing is boring, in my opinion. It's kinda stupid too. I've had situations where I've seen 2 skulls from one corpse.

maybe he had a gnome in his pants

 

[Dekstar]

Haha, that's the spirit! Blame the gnomes for everything, Dark Elf - Just because they're small, and made of clay, doesn't mean you get the right to insult us... I mean them...!

On a real note: Everyone on this forum will probably buy Half-life 2 (Except the random Doom 3 fan-boys and sh*t stirers) at one point or another. So what's the point in creating these random Threads about how you think HL2 will suck because it wont include this one point that you like. If VALVe listened to people like you. Then Gordon will be running around with akimbo Crowbars and he might aswell be wearing a red cape and his underpants on the outside, because someone thought it would be 'original'.

Just wait for the game to come out then get ready to rush your local games shop - Because we all know you'll buy it anyway.

-Dekstar

 

[Brian Damage]

How would the game be any less fun with "breakable" bodies and with enemies that actually die when you shoot them in the head?


- Yellonet

There are breakable bodies for things like zombies and antlions (watch the vids), and enemies do seem to die when you shoot them in the head. Things like the realistic bullet physics, however, would detract, IMHO.