Recall Bush!

Korgoth

Korgoth

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After debating in "the American Issue" thread in this forum, and noticing that I wasn't alone in thinking "what a miserable liar, and horrible leader George W. Bush is", I would like to give you this link:
http://www.bushrecall.org/
Go there if you want, it takes a total of five seconds to sign the petitiion, and then let us now here, what you think of that site, which has a lot of interesting FACTS about Bush that everyone should know... so share your thoughts and let us know if you signed up... I sure did.
 
Well im Canadian so i'd rather recall Cretien or however the fsuck you spell his name.
 
well no one has to sign im not even sure you really have to be american, (you can not actually recall the president, but the democrats are lobbying to) hopefully IMO they succeed as soon as we get the nut job outta' office the sooner we can repair all the damages he has done to our international relations, our economy, our job market, our enviroment etc etc...
 
I thought there has been a recall in the past, but what do I know :D
 
lol thanks evo, Well nw they tried to impeach clinton (which you can do) for lying about who he slept with, but if you ask me bush lying about going to war is far more grounds for impeachment or recall...
 
Originally posted by Innervision961
lol thanks evo, Well nw they tried to impeach clinton (which you can do) for lying about who he slept with, but if you ask me bush lying about going to war is far more grounds for impeachment or recall...
Click to expand...

Not really quite as easily proven through.
 
awesome I think if enough people sign bush may get the idea and resign or maybe be impeached :) There should be lots of sigs on there cause i heard about the website from CNN so they are gettin' the word out... Heres some quotes of the day for you people out there! Californians take note!

“I was always dreaming about very powerful people, dictators and things like that. I was always impressed by people who could be remembered for hundreds of years or like Jesus for thousands of years.” – Arnold Schwarzenegger, from the documentary film Pumping Iron



"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."
--President-Elect George W. Bush, CNN News, Aired December 18, 2000 - 12:00 p.m. ET. October 26, 2001, G W Bush signed the so-called Patriot Act, disempowering the Constitution and Bill of Rights in precisely the same fashion as Hitler’s Enabling Act. Those who don’t understand what I’m saying should go read the Nuremburg Trials Volume I and II, with a copy of the Patriot Act available for comparison. The crime the US State Department charged the Nazis with at Nuremberg was legislation that, if one substitutes the word Muslim for Jew and Terrorist for Communist, is word for word identical to the legislation passed by G W Bush on October 26, 2001.
 
lol the pariot act! if ure saying its like the enabling act then how come i havent heard of it
 
the patriot act is like "constituion whats that you have no rights"
but you see if we impeach bush the guys under him arent to great either so were fuxored
 
*will not argue will not argue*

Well, anyway.... the Patriot Act is NOT the same as the Enabling Act, it doesn't make Bush a dictator... oh and everyone quoting the "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator".... it was most likely a joke...... just a president messing around..... the Patriot Act, and the current anti-terrorist ferver, is no different to McCarthyism.
 
Originally posted by Zeus
Haha I love these anti-american swine.
Click to expand...

Yeah because we would be using the word swine a lot more if it wasn't for the almighty US of A.


I have nothing against the US. I may have said i have in the past, but my opinions have changed greatly. I realised i was wrong to say i have anything against other countries. For one its too much of a generalisation. I also stand firmly behind Bush, hes a good man. People are always calling him a liar. But i can tell hes got his head firmly screwed on, he knows what he is doing. Unfortunately it appears many of his country men don't.

This is all i have to say.
 
Originally posted by Innervision961
awesome I think if enough people sign bush may get the idea and resign or maybe be impeached :) There should be lots of sigs on there cause i heard about the website from CNN so they are gettin' the word out... Heres some quotes of the day for you people out there! Californians take note!

“I was always dreaming about very powerful people, dictators and things like that. I was always impressed by people who could be remembered for hundreds of years or like Jesus for thousands of years.” – Arnold Schwarzenegger, from the documentary film Pumping Iron



"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."
--President-Elect George W. Bush, CNN News, Aired December 18, 2000 - 12:00 p.m. ET. October 26, 2001, G W Bush signed the so-called Patriot Act, disempowering the Constitution and Bill of Rights in precisely the same fashion as Hitler’s Enabling Act. Those who don’t understand what I’m saying should go read the Nuremburg Trials Volume I and II, with a copy of the Patriot Act available for comparison. The crime the US State Department charged the Nazis with at Nuremberg was legislation that, if one substitutes the word Muslim for Jew and Terrorist for Communist, is word for word identical to the legislation passed by G W Bush on October 26, 2001.
Click to expand...


Originally posted by mrBadger
*will not argue will not argue*

Well, anyway.... the Patriot Act is NOT the same as the Enabling Act, it doesn't make Bush a dictator... oh and everyone quoting the "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator".... it was most likely a joke...... just a president messing around..... the Patriot Act, and the current anti-terrorist ferver, is no different to McCarthyism.
Click to expand...


Ok this should be fun.

First we will start on Arnold. He said that obviously not as a "I LOVE HITLER DOODS" statement. Hes saying he has admired people that you read about now , people that are remembered , people that are in a way immortal. Im sick of the media and other people trying to label him as a nazi just because his father was in the party. His father was most likely in the party to be successful , he did what he had to do to get ahead.

Now on to bush. That was a Fcking joke , I cant believe you are fcking serious. He was joking , just like you do to your friends or family.

The patriot act, its not like the enabling act , I still have rights and anyone that doesnt do something against the law still has rights. You can still file lawsuits and its been OKed by the justice department. Like badger said ( he had good points , similar to mine) its more akin to Mcarthy-ism. But the fact of the matter is its necessary to assure that it is more difficult to operate as a terrorist in the U.S.

*Edit* Hey I forgot to mention , you know a War and an attack on our soil , another war , these all reduce a budget surplus , they cost friggin money. And they have all been more or less necessary.

*Edit2* I also forgot to mention that the economy has beein leveling off since Clinton was still in office. The economy was simply at a level it really wasnt at yet , the bubble is gone now.
 
Originally posted by Innervision961
they succeed as soon as we get the nut job outta' office the sooner we can repair all the damages he has done to our international relations,
Click to expand...

International politics is not about getting along with other countries. Its about getting what you want.

I dont konw if you noticed or not, but the anti-american attitude abroad didnt start in 2000, it was there all along.

Originally posted by Innervision961
our economy, our job market,
Click to expand...

You do know that it takes 4+ years for econonmic policies to take effect, dont you?

Why did the economy go to pot as soon as Bush was elected? #1, becuae the guy before him made bad economic decisions, and #2, the world economy is going through the bottom end of a businsess cycle right now, a time when weak and poorly run companies are weeded out naturally through a shrinking economy. This leads to job loss, and guess what, nobody on earth can control it.


Originally posted by Innervision961
our enviroment etc etc...
Click to expand...

Yeah, we dont need more power generation plants! No more land for transmission lines, there are too many already! We can use as much energy as we want but dont you oil companies dare produce more oil!

Ask any given New Yorker or Torontonian if they think the environmental damage is worth a stable power system.
 
Close it down

I find this thread the idea of a civilized debate an offensive occurance. I challenge the moderators to resist the will of the few and close this topic down NOW.:cheese:
 
I dont think 13 year olds signing a petition will Recall a president, get a brain and learn! Most pathetic thing i ever seen.
 
"get a brain" lol sounds like something errmm i know a 13 year old would say :p. Please u never know wot this might bring up
 
it's hard to recall someone who wasn't really elected in the first place. Oops!
 
Originally posted by Arrowhead
it's hard to recall someone who wasn't really elected in the first place. Oops!
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hahahah youre so right. Except for the part where he won by the rules and stayed totally within the system. Too bad , soo sad.
 
Originally posted by DimitriPopov
hahahah youre so right. Except for the part where he won by the rules and stayed totally within the system. Too bad , soo sad.
Click to expand...

I think people would have been a lot happier if they allowed Gore's Selective Recounting of the votes.

(ie Not only did he want to recount the votes for the 50th time, he only wanted to recount the Gore-Heavy areas.)
 
I live in Florida, that election was BS. In case you didn't know Jeb Bush is the governor of Florida and helped to heavily fix this election. In largely black areas (which lean heavily towards being democratic) road blocks were set up and people had to present between 3-4 forms of ID to be allowed to vote. In richer white areas only 1 ID was required and no obstacles whatsoever. The fact is many of the people who would have voted for Gore simply said screw it because of all crap that was in there way. And finally you have that piece of crap ballot that was confusing to some people, it didn't help George but it made some people who wanted to vote for Gore vote for some loser no ones heard of.

That being said, Gore still might have won Florida, we don't know because we weren't allowed to proceed with the recounts. The majority of this country wanted Gore to be president, the majority voted for him, and even with the Florida situation he would have still won if not for this outdated electoral college.

If the election hadn't been so poorly stolen then the country and even the world would be in a much better positon right now.
 
I can't say I'm thrilled with W, but there is no way, no how I'm voting for a Democrat in the next election. Lieberman is the only normal one of the bunch, but he is a video game hater, so no thanks. :)
 
oh please, where have the guys gone that made the america-issue thread civilized? This is only a short way to a flame war...

Anyway, the way the US is now going is not the way of the enabeling act. Its more the way the GDR was run (for you young fellows: thats the state that was created in the russian sector of occupied germany. So if you tell a german you freed him, make sure he is from western germany, or he could get very angry.). Basically, the people there had the freedom of speech. However, there was a small amendemnt, stating that this right was only to use "acording to the constitution." Sounds not that bad, huh? Well, it made people go to jail just for saying that the west was more democratic than the east. It allowed the state to spy on his own people.

Anyway, there wasn't a single terrorist attack in the gdr in all of its time, when western germany went through some harsh times...security from terrorist attacs is possible...all you have to pay is your freedom...
 
Ok ok, first of all I'm not 13, second of all I didn't write that little piece about the enabling act (if you read closely i said QUOTE!) :) please guys keep this civilized I don't want this closed... And I also stated that you didn't have to sign and you don't have to read what I have to say... Who ever said "I love these anti american swine" how does it make me anti american to be anti bush if you think bush is america then the white house think tanks have done there job in brainwashing you.. It does not make you anti american to disagree with your leader, in fact thats what this country was built upon, people who didn't agree with their leaders right?
Reasons why i think the way i do:

When President Bush took office there was a $127 billion surplus, and now we are left with a $455 billion deficit that is expected to increase at least another $50 billion over the next year.

George W. Bush’s environmental policy opens up national forests for commercial logging and pushes for domestic oil exploration in protected areas. His economic policy includes tax breaks for corporations who move their operations overseas. And in Iraq, Vice President Dick Cheney's old corporation, Halliburton, has been awarded an exclusive contract to help rebuild infrastructure.

The past two years have been a binge of tax cuts for the nation's millionaires and billionaires while job losses bring back memories of the Herbert Hoover administration. There are nine million Americans without jobs and under the Bush administration, almost three million jobs have disappeared.

First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history. :)
(but hey i'd do that to)

And thats just a little of why I think this guy shouldn't be our leader, if you disagree thats fine, by all means tell me why, but refrain from calling names and the like please, i haven't called any suppporter of bush a name so i would expect to get the same treatment (and if you can't defend bush without getting violent then maybe you should re think your stance)
 
Originally posted by smwScott

If the election hadn't been so poorly stolen then the country and even the world would be in a much better positon right now.
Click to expand...

Wed be in one shitter of a position if Gore would have won. I shudder to think of the lackluster response he would have had to 9/11. I somehow doubt wed have done much more than we did for Pan Am 103.


The electoral college is not outdated , and it works. It gives smaller population states an actual voice in elections. Were you in both of these areas during the election? Otherwise you may be relying on tainted reports.

BTW- I hate when people call those vacation days. Wherever he goes he has an office , he has shitloads of equipment , he can still do his job to the fullest , hes just not in the actual White House.
 
thats all you had to reply to was my little vacation crack?lol why not talk about something serious like the deficit that should show that even if he lugs all the equipment on his "vacation" he still isn't doing his job
And if you don't think the patriot act is a bad thing then tell that to all the people who were illegaly detained and held some indefinatly (and american citizens mind you) without the chance to go to trial, you at the new powers the fbi is allowed, they can come in to your home without your knowledge without a warrant and do pretty much whatever they want without anyone thinking twice

here are some patriot act concerns for ya:

'Expanded Surveillance With Reduced Checks and Balances. USAPA expands all four traditional tools of surveillance -- wiretaps, search warrants, pen/trap orders and subpoenas. Their counterparts under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) that allow spying in the U.S. by foreign intelligence agencies have similarly been expanded. This means:
Be careful what you put in that Google search. The government may now spy on web surfing of innocent Americans, including terms entered into search engines, by merely telling a judge anywhere in the U.S. that the spying could lead to information that is "relevant" to an ongoing criminal investigation. The person spied on does not have to be the target of the investigation. This application must be granted and the government is not obligated to report to the court or tell the person spied upon what it has done.
Nationwide roving wiretaps. FBI and CIA can now go from phone to phone, computer to computer without demonstrating that each is even being used by a suspect or target of an order. The government may now serve a single wiretap, FISA wiretap or pen/trap order on any person or entity nationwide, regardless of whether that person or entity is named in the order. The government need not make any showing to a court that the particular information or communication to be acquired is relevant to a criminal investigation. In the pen/trap or FISA situations, they do not even have to report where they served the order or what information they received. The EFF believes that the opportunities for abuse of these broad new powers are immense. For pen/trap orders, ISPs or others who are not named in the do have authority under the law to request certification from the Attorney General's office that the order applies to them, but they do not have the authority to request such confirmation from a court.
ISPs hand over more user information. The law makes two changes to increase how much information the government may obtain about users from their ISPs or others who handle or store their online communications. First it allows ISPs to voluntarily hand over all "non-content" information to law enforcement with no need for any court order or subpoena. sec. 212. Second, it expands the records that the government may seek with a simple subpoena (no court review required) to include records of session times and durations, temporarily assigned network (I.P.) addresses; means and source of payments, including credit card or bank account numbers. secs. 210, 211.
New definitions of terrorism expand scope of surveillance. One new definition of terrorism and three expansions of previous terms also expand the scope of surveillance. They are 1) § 802 definition of "domestic terrorism" (amending 18 USC §2331), which raises concerns about legitimate protest activity resulting in conviction on terrorism charges, especially if violence erupts; adds to 3 existing definition of terrorism (int'l terrorism per 18 USC §2331, terrorism transcending national borders per 18 USC §2332b, and federal terrorism per amended 18 USC §2332b(g)(5)(B)). These new definitions also expose more people to surveillance (and potential "harboring" and "material support" liability, §§ 803, 805).
Overbreadth with a lack of focus on terrorism. Several provisions of the USAPA have no apparent connection to preventing terrorism. These include:
Government spying on suspected computer trespassers with no need for court order. Sec. 217.
Adding samples to DNA database for those convicted of "any crime of violence." Sec. 503. The provision adds collection of DNA for terrorists, but then inexplicably also adds collection for the broad, non-terrorist category of "any crime of violence."
Wiretaps now allowed for suspected violations of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. This includes anyone suspected of "exceeding the authority" of a computer used in interstate commerce, causing over $5000 worth of combined damage.
Dramatic increases to the scope and penalties of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. This includes: 1) raising the maximum penalty for violations to 10 years (from 5) for a first offense and 20 years (from 10) for a second offense; 2) ensuring that violators only need to intend to cause damage generally, not intend to cause damage or other specified harm over the $5,000 statutory damage threshold; 3) allows aggregation of damages to different computers over a year to reach the $5,000 threshold; 4) enhance punishment for violations involving any (not just $5,000) damage to a government computer involved in criminal justice or the military; 5) include damage to foreign computers involved in US interstate commerce; 6) include state law offenses as priors for sentencing; 7) expand definition of loss to expressly include time spent investigating, responding, for damage assessment and for restoration.
Allows Americans to be More Easily Spied Upon by US Foreign Intelligence Agencies. Just as the domestic law enforcement surveillance powers have expanded, the corollary powers under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act have also been greatly expanded, including:
General Expansion of FISA Authority. FISA authority to spy on Americans or foreign persons in the US (and those who communicate with them) increased from situations where the suspicion that the person is the agent of a foreign government is "the" purpose of the surveillance to anytime that this is "a significant purpose" of the surveillance.
Increased information sharing between domestic law enforcement and intelligence. This is a partial repeal of the wall put up in the 1970s after the discovery that the FBI and CIA had been conducting investigations on over half a million Americans during the McCarthy era and afterwards, including the pervasive surveillance of Martin Luther King in the 1960s. It allows wiretap results and grand jury information and other information collected in a criminal case to be disclosed to the intelligence agencies when the information constitutes foreign intelligence or foreign intelligence information, the latter being a broad new category created by this law.
FISA detour around federal domestic surveillance limitations; domestic detour around FISA limitations. Domestic surveillance limits can be skirted by the Attorney General, for instance, by obtaining a FISA wiretap against a US person where "probable cause" does not exist, but when the person is suspected to be an agent of a foreign government. The information can then be shared with the FBI. The reverse is also true.
Future Actions
 
Originally posted by DimitriPopov

The electoral college is not outdated , and it works. It gives smaller population states an actual voice in elections. Were you in both of these areas during the election? Otherwise you may be relying on tainted reports.
Click to expand...

Of course I didn't vote twice. I'm a middle class white guy, we go pretty much either way and didn't get and special treatment. However, I do know people that live in poor sections of town that went through this. I saw it mentioned on the news briefly, but I got the majority of my info from a friend, and actual account of what happened.

And of course Gore would have responded just as strongly as Dubya did. An attack of that scale would have required a counter attack no matter who is in office. It doesn't take too much to point to a place on the map and say "Blow it up". What you might have seen in the Afghanistan war is more tactical and smarter strikes, possibly catching Osama off guard. 12 Special Forces guys have a higher chance of catching him than 5,000 marines who can't mobilize without alerting half of Asia. We would have attacked the Taliban anyway, but priority 1 would be Al Quadea as it should have been with Dubya. Oh yeah, and we wouldn't have gone on this masquerade through Iraq.
 
Im glad we went to Iraq. I dont think Gore would have done half as much.
 
well you also need to remember gore actually has been in war before where dubya flew outdated planes and never made it to battle, so gore knows what war is, would he have issued a counter attack probably he never would have lived it down if he didn't, would we be in iraq by ourselves probably not because gore would care more about our allies than about oiol contracts

here is a juicy little tid bit for ya, the iraq war was actually drafted in the mid 90's and proposed to the clinton administration by this group http://www.newamericancentury.org/ and guess who its members are? Paul wolfowitz, dick cheney, don rumsfield kinda funny huh? they wanted to go to war in iraq in the nineties... hmm now they run the government and guess where we are at now
 
Originally posted by Innervision961
well you also need to remember gore actually has been in war before where dubya flew outdated planes and never made it to battle, so gore knows what war is, would he have issued a counter attack probably he never would have lived it down if he didn't, would we be in iraq by ourselves probably not because gore would care more about our allies than about oiol contracts

here is a juicy little tid bit for ya, the iraq war was actually drafted in the mid 90's and proposed to the clinton administration by this group http://www.newamericancentury.org/ and guess who its members are? Paul wolfowitz, dick cheney, don rumsfield kinda funny huh? they wanted to go to war in iraq in the nineties... hmm now they run the government and guess where we are at now
Click to expand...

Guess where we should have been a long time ago.
 
well lets not confuse iraq with afghanistan or saddam with bin laden because that sounds like thats where this going... There is no evidence, no proof what so ever that saddam had ties to al queda or any proof that he had anything to do with 9/11 so why should we have been in iraq a long time ago? Maybe then we would have found the weapons that bush sr sold him? Look im not saying the iraq war shouldn't have happened it needed to happen but for different reasons than bush is leading us to believe and i think we should have let inspections continue and waited for support from the UN and or nato, but no, we went in anyways to quick, and now there are terrorists blooming in iraq because of us.. Saddam wan't an immediate threat to american security like we were told, there is no reason why we couldn't have waited for a broader coalition, we have damaged a lot of international relationships over this.
 
Im not going to argue why it happened this time , that turns into flames. Saddam tourtured and oppressed his people , Thats why it needed to happen. Thats all we should talk about Iraq , otherwise this thread will spiral down.
 
Read my above post, i said he needed to go, but i said there were other ways to go about it... Had we done it the right way saddam could be in front of tribunals right now facing punishment for the crimes he commited agains't his people, I totally agree that he is a horrible man, there is no doubt there, I won't argue against that because its true, but lets face facts, we don't have saddam yet and whats it lead to, more terrorism and another man hunt, both him and osama are making tapes and gaining sympathisers and supporters but had the UN and the rest of the world joined in the struggle (which i believe if we had waited a bit it would have happened) we could have captured him diplomatically and this could all be at an end
 
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