Religion: More harm than good?

[Phat-t]

I know I'm most likely going to get majorly flamed for this, but by looking at history, it seems to me that religion has done more hurt than help. I'm fine with it being a way to give hope and purpose to people's lives, but not when it gives people an excuse to kill other people because they're belief's differ. Religion seems to lead to irrational violence. Look at the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, 9/11, violence in the Middle East. There's still huge anti-semitism in school for no apparent reason. Gays are discriminated against and have acts of violence directed towards them because being gay is not "God's Way". If God is all powerful, why did he create human beings to even be capable of being gay. If God is all loving, why does he care if people are gay. Scientific advances are held back because stem cell research, which is considered "unholy" was ruled against but the Christians in congress. Stem cell research would allow us to save lives people. Why wouldn't God want us to save lives, even if the means to do it weren't created by him. Religion also serves as an elaborate way for people to be controlled. In the first Crusade, Pope Urban II told the people that if they went out and killed all the Muslims in the Holy Land, they'd get a free trip to heaven. Its very ironic to me how many of the religions that forbid killing have lead to the most murders. Personally, I don't even see how intelligent people can even beleive in an invisible man in the sky for which there is no evidence to except for the rants of men that are today called saints and prophets. Begin the debate. Flame if you want, but don't make it stupid.

 

[ComradeBadger]

I think you'll find that the majority agrees with you.

But I submit to you this:

Mankind: More harm than good?

 

[Ikerous]

Most of the time religion leads people to help out in their community
Look at all the faith based homeless shelters or other charities
It also in many cases leads to people helping out third world communities
Giving kids with no hope food and educations

Occasionally people will use religion as an excuse for evil
Generally it has nothing to do with the religion at all
Its merely someone exploiting the religion to further their agenda

 

[gh0st]

You'd never understand unless you believed in said religion; discussion is pointless.

 

[CrazyHarij]

Religion has mostly been good since it's made people follow common sense, morals and be helpful and positive.

 

[Phat-t]

But I submit to you this:

Mankind: More harm than good?

haha, badger you have some good stuff.

Most of the time religion leads people to help out in their community
Look at all the faith based homeless shelters or other charities
It also in many cases leads to people helping out third world communities
Giving kids with no hope food and educations

Occasionally people will use religion as an excuse for evil
Generally it has nothing to do with the religion at all
Its merely someone exploiting the religion to further their agenda

It seems to me that religion as a whole is simply a big excuse. An excuse to give hope, an excuse to do good deeds, an excuse to kill people, an excuse to gain power, an excuse to manipulate people...

Refering back to Badger's quote, the problem really is with humanity. Wait, didn't God create humanity?

Religion has mostly been good since it's made people follow common sense, morals and be helpful and positive.

Creationalism and beleiving in big invisible men is common sense? And what really are morals? They're things accepted to be the norm because a long time ago someone made them up when people weren't well educated and they've been passed on.

You'd never understand unless you believed in said religion; discussion is pointless.

Why is discussion pointless? So to understand in the first place, I would have to beleive. But to beleive in the first place, I would have to understand. Isn't that a paradox or something?

Please continue the debate however, it releives me from boredom and arguing is fun.

 

[ComradeBadger]

Don't you find it strange that the idea of a God emerged in all cultures of man - before they even had contact with one another?

I'm not religious, but I'm fascinated by the God-complex idea

 

[Absinthe]

For all the good religion does, there is just as much bad. And if one can exclude evil acts in the name of religion with statements like "They weren't really religious", then I could say the same for any good act remotely associated with a faith.

"If we did a good act merely from love of God and a belief that it is pleasing to Him, whence arises the morality of the Atheist? ...Their virtue, then, must have had some other foundation than the love of God." - Thomas Jefferson

I do not believe that concepts such as morality and benevolence are grounded in any organized religion. If anything, organized religion only confuses matters, and any act that comes out of it, good or bad, is based solely on happenstance.

Therefore, I'd prefer to see organized religion done away with. I honestly don't think we need it.

 

[Phat-t]

Don't you find it strange that the idea of a God emerged in all cultures of man - before they even had contact with one another?

I'm not religious, but I'm fascinated by the God-complex idea

This is why I wana take psychology junior year. Look at history: First most cultures beleive in multiple gods, next many beleive in a single God, now many youth these days are becoming atheist. If you don't think so, take my word for it, its true. I'm 15 and alota my friends these days are turning atheists. I think it all has somethign to do with basic human psychology. It seems that as the level of education increases, religious beleifs decrease.

This topic has kinda turned from politics into philosophy but its gettin good neways.

 

[Absinthe]

This is why I wana take psychology junior year. Look at history: First most cultures beleive in multiple gods, next many beleive in a single God, now many youth these days are becoming atheist. If you don't think so, its true. I'm 15 and alota my friends these days are atheists. I think it all has somethign to do with basic human psychology. It seems that as the level of education increases, the beleif in religion decreases.

This topic has kinda turned from politics into philosophy but its gettin good neways.

That's because more schools nowadays are teaching about rational thinking, source evaluation, and logic.

 

[ComradeBadger]

Level of education? Hah. Compare yourself to the Greek philosophers

Religion has sod all to do with preventing rational thinking - people who don't think rationally don't think rationally, religious or not.

Yes, all of my friends are atheists, that's true.

Oh, and school psychology bites. Seriously mate. You won't get what you want out of it :|

 

[Phat-t]

That's because more schools nowadays are teaching about rational thinking, source evaluation, and logic.

Hmmm, this is true. If schools in NY taught more heavily on religion or if I lived with a mre religious family, I might not be an atheist now. The human mind likes to accept what its taught more heavily. This is why the southern US is still pretty big on religion, it relies more heavily on tradition.

 

[Absinthe]

Religion has sod all to do with preventing rational thinking - people who don't think rationally don't think rationally, religious or not.

While you are right to a point, I find very little rationality in believing and living your life by an aged book that lacks any real credibility or supporting evidence. I find it even delves into absurdity when it's ingrained so heavily into a nation's culture and is believed in by the majority.

I wasn't trying to be insulting when I said that.

Granted, there's no such thing as a completely rational human being, and there are atheists out there that are similarly blinded by their own "beliefs".

 

[Razor]

Some of the greatest acts of kindness and also greatest acts of evil have been done in the name of God. As for Stem Cell research being unlawful in America, i thought it was legal for Stem Cell research to go ahead in America? At least it is legal in Britain.

But religious people have no place in politics and politicians have no place in religion, unfortunately, America screwed that up and has got themselves into a huge amount of mess.

 

[Phat-t]

Level of education? Hah. Compare yourself to the Greek philosophers

lol i was wrong to say level of education. There's no real such thing as level of education, its just pretty much what I beleive good education is.

Oh, and school psychology bites. Seriously mate. You won't get what you want out of it

Maybe its different in NY? Why, what do they end up teaching you in school psychology?

Granted, there's no such thing as a completely rational human being, and there are atheists out there that are similarly blinded by their own "beliefs".

good point, i like the way you think.

 

[Ikerous]

Maybe its different in NY? Why, what do they end up teaching you in school psychology?

Its just memorizing different concepts from different schools of psychology on uninteresting subjects, its mostly vocab. It's not too bad. Not real enlightening though.

And saying there is no afterlife is just as logical as saying there is one.

 

[Absinthe]

If you give food to a pigeon every time he hits a button, he'll learn that hitting the button gives him food.

Oh yeah, and I think Freud got mouth cancer about 20 times.

 

[ComradeBadger]

While you are right to a point, I find very little rationality in believing and living your life by an aged book that lacks any real credibility or supporting evidence. I find it even delves into absurdity when it's ingrained so heavily into a nation's culture and is believed in by the majority.

I wasn't trying to be insulting when I said that.

Granted, there's no such thing as a completely rational human being, and there are atheists out there that are similarly blinded by their own "beliefs".

The idea behind the bible is as a collection of stories to teach people how to live, and teach them moral lessons - some of these values are outdated - does that mean that as a concept religion is useless? No.

The irony is that all extremes in nearly all things are damaging - from psychotic religious fanatics to Nazi thugs to psychotic atheists to rabid Doom 3/HL2/Halo 2/Mr Drller fanboys, the extremes of human nature are to be avoided.

Most people in the middle are A-Ok.

 

[qckbeam]

The irony is that all extremes in nearly all things are damaging - from psychotic religious fanatics to Nazi thugs to psychotic atheists to rabid Doom 3/HL2/Halo 2/Mr Drller fanboys, the extremes of human nature are to be avoided.

Most people in the middle are A-Ok.

Yep, that is correctomundo!

Virtue always lies in the middle

 

[PvtRyan]

Believe what you want to believe, but people need to **** off with making decisions regarding other people's lives based on their beliefs. Seriously, **** them all.

 

[Cole]

Religion has caused war in the middle east for I don't know how long. For many many ages.
Religion in concept is not a bad idea, but its a concept that is taken to meaningfully.

Religion should be a simple way to follow. A simple set of laws that you should follow.

Guess what, what happens is exactly opposite.
Death, lots of death come.

People hated other people so bad because of there religion they were willing to do crusades from uper europe all the way down to the middle east to kill jews.
Does that tell you something? How religion causes so much hate in the world.
We put our troops on holy grounds which is a reason why Osama Hates us. If religion wasn't pushed so far he may have not really cared as much and wouldn't hold it against us.

Hmmm, this is true. If schools in NY taught more heavily on religion or if I lived with a mre religious family, I might not be an atheist now.

If I was not brought up as a christian and not went to CCD(Learn about God & things), and much more guess what I would probably be Christian Right now.

I was taught about God and Jesus. I was taught alot. After all that teaching where does it leave me? Athiest. It leads me to not believe. I was givin a choice. I was presented by the schools of Science and Presents God and everythin.
I chose. I chose Logic.


The fact is religion will continue to grow and cause more and more deaths. Religion may cause people to come togeather every now and then but guess what it also causes. Religion causes hate. I mean real hate.
Wasn't it Israel and Egypt wouldn't even talk to eachother for a peace agreement when the U.N. was trying to patch things up.
That is alot of hate. So much hate you are not willing to even talk to the other person just because they have diffrent beliefs.

Religion causes people to not get along, causes millions of deaths, causes destruction, madness, everything.

I would rather have no explanation at all for something and still be looking for an explanation, than to have a 1000 explanations with no proof.

 

[Phat-t]

haha qckbeam i like your sig. This topic is going good, but i wish more pro-religion people would post and argue their point.

 

[ComradeBadger]

Ok.

Point - the Crusades were not entirely religious, it was the beginnings of expansionist policies of Europe. Half of the Christian religious wars were fought for "Suspiciously worldly reasons" (Gordon Napier)

 

[bliink]

Ok.

Point - the Crusades were not entirely religious, it was the beginnings of expansionist policies of Europe. Half of the Christian religious wars were fought for "Suspiciously worldly reasons" (Gordon Napier)

Heh.. are you posting here or is this part of your history revision?

 

[ComradeBadger]

Heh. I'm actually doing 'Ideas Of Change 1715 - 1815: The French Poor'

That quote comes from a book on the Knights Templar, on who I recently did a study - research n all

 

[Zeus]

^^ this man's avatar is driving me crazy

And yes, I think for the most part religion causes more harm than good. It's ok to be very religious about something, but events such as 9/11, crusades, ect are ridiculous.

 

[jondy]

Don't you find it strange that the idea of a God emerged in all cultures of man - before they even had contact with one another?

I'm not religious, but I'm fascinated by the God-complex idea

Religion was a much-needed method of keeping tribes inline when regular mortal authority wasn't enough

It evolved; and like many other ideas in evolution it happened at roughly the same time all over the shop

 

[Absinthe]

The idea behind the bible is as a collection of stories to teach people how to live, and teach them moral lessons - some of these values are outdated - does that mean that as a concept religion is useless? No.

I think the concept of organized religion is. It has been used as a method of control and has a bad reputation of holding on to values that are entirely outdated in today's world (for instance, take the Catholic church's stance on homosexuals and contraception). It also enforces its own interpretation of a faith. You think the bible is a collection of short stories to give guidelines on how to live and act? Okay. I know people that would consider it a history text. Have a particular interpretation of a passage? I can guarantee you that there are people out there with different ones.

This is all fine if kept on an individual level. But the moment massive organizations start coming into play... Well, then you get stubborness, antiquation, bigotry, conflict, and ignorance.

Organized religion will always be a problem in my eyes because, let's face it, our species is far too flawed to deal with it properly.

The irony is that all extremes in nearly all things are damaging - from psychotic religious fanatics to Nazi thugs to psychotic atheists to rabid Doom 3/HL2/Halo 2/Mr Drller fanboys, the extremes of human nature are to be avoided.

Most people in the middle are A-Ok.

You are correct, but I think that's something everybody will agree on. I wasn't really arguing about religious extremism. Below is what I was really getting at.

Ok.

Point - the Crusades were not entirely religious, it was the beginnings of expansionist policies of Europe. Half of the Christian religious wars were fought for "Suspiciously worldly reasons" (Gordon Napier)

So an evil act was committed on non-religious grounds? Okay then! I'd certainly agree with you on that. I viewed this as a product of organized religion rather than religion itself.
But if evil acts cannot be attributed to religion, then why should it be given kudos for acts of the opposite? For example, people have pointed out charities and homeless shelters started by Christians. Well, I don't think that religion is responsible for that. I think that these founders were benevolent and good-hearted people that merely happened to be Christian. I think they wanted to help other people for the sake of helping other people, rather than doing it just because their God commands it. If you stripped away their religious beliefs, I think that their nature would still remain intact.

So I argue that religion is not a base for morality (in the sense of benevolence, open-mindedness, justice, etc.) and that we don't really need it in order to be "moral".

 

[Lemonking]

but Jesus loves you

 

[K e r b e r o s]

An excuse to give hope

Is having hope, wrong?

an excuse to do good deeds

So we should all be doing evil deeds then, right? Quick! Go fetch your FBI Produced Anarchist's Cookbook!

an excuse to kill people

The Ansar Al-Sunnah Army has done a wonderful job of that -- did you see the recent beheadings? But again, stressing that all people and all religions are evil is an inherent covering to your agenda. What do you believe that opposes religion with a fanatic stereotyping and generalizing conduct?

Further, how can you stress such things as evil, when you've simply bad mouthed that giving hope and doing good deeds are evil? Is good, evil to you?

an excuse to manipulate people...

No. You can use anything to manipulate someone. I could pick up a 9mm, shoot you in the head, and manipulate the course of your health ... is it the guns fault? No, its mine. :thumbs:

Creationalism and beleiving in big invisible men is common sense?

... and believing in nothing is also?

And what really are morals? They're things accepted to be the norm because a long time ago someone made them up when people weren't well educated and they've been passed on.

So religion aside ... no morals = teh good?

So to understand in the first place, I would have to beleive. But to beleive in the first place, I would have to understand. Isn't that a paradox or something?

Not entirely. Do you believe in Sacrifice? Or bed-wetting yourself in the line of danger to save your own hide?

and arguing is fun.

Argueing is far from debating -- how about you just throw in some cuss words ... that'll change this from debate quickly.

For all the good religion does, there is just as much bad. And if one can exclude evil acts in the name of religion with statements like "They weren't really religious", then I could say the same for any good act remotely associated with a faith.

But is'int it in question that evil and smart men can manipulate the good and stupid ones? Religion is just the shield -- now which is the sword?

There's no real such thing as level of education, its just pretty much what I beleive good education is.

Oh Je -, oh sorry, I did'nt mean to offend your ideal of opposing creationism. Please, dont sue or call the ACLU :rolling:

But anyway -- so this thread is predefined to have an inherent victory for you? You offer very little when you predetermine whats acceptable.

Yep, that is correctomundo!

Virtue always lies in the middle

Ame -- Ooops! Sorry!

... ugh, [looks around frantically] Give that man a cigar!

 

[MuToiD_MaN]

Religion often has good intentions. The problem with human nature is that we can't be governed in an altruistic nature. To put it differently, if everyone acted in a way to best benefit the entire Human race, there wouldn't be a need for religion. Unfortunately, the world's people do not act in such an accord and a set of rules enforced by something that no human has the power to control is necessary. Which is good. The fear of God keeps people in line. That's from my atheistic viewpoint, anyway (which IMO doesn't make me a hypocrite, just someone who chooses to believe certain things).

Also unfortunate is the fact that religion is still in the hands of humanity. As long as there are devout believers that will die for their religion, there will be people in power pointing those believers at causes to die for. Not to say that strong believers need outside stimuli to do terrible things in the name of their beliefs.

Religion works in concept, but so does communism.

 

[Pro[pH]et]

I think the USSR proves what will happen to a country that completely removes god from itself. I don't think a country should push any one religion but freedom of religion is why many people came here in the first place.

As it has been said over and over, religion doesn't kill people, people kill people.

Just because people who are religous kill people it doesn't make that religion evil.

Some religions do teach volience, most don't.

I can kick my neighbors ass in the name of Wal-Mart but that doesn't make Wal-Mart evil, even if I run him over with a shopping cart from there.

 

[Phat-t]

Quote:
An excuse to give hope

Is having hope, wrong?

I don't beleive I remember saying it was wrong. I'm fine with religion giving hope, I just saying I can't force myself to rationally beleive most of its teachings. Of course there also the kind religious hope that wants all the infidels to die.

Quote:
an excuse to do good deeds

So we should all be doing evil deeds then, right? Quick! Go fetch your FBI Produced Anarchist's Cookbook!

I didn't say doing good deeds was bad either. I forget who said it before, but someone made a good point on either this subject or the that creationalism one. Most people who do good deeds in the name of religion would normally do them anyway for simply being goodhearted people or people who want to change.

Quote:
an excuse to kill people

The Ansar Al-Sunnah Army has done a wonderful job of that -- did you see the recent beheadings? But again, stressing that all people and all religions are evil is an inherent covering to your agenda. What do you believe that opposes religion with a fanatic stereotyping and generalizing conduct?

Further, how can you stress such things as evil, when you've simply bad mouthed that giving hope and doing good deeds are evil? Is good, evil to you?

Yes, I'm secretly the master of evil. Don't tell anybody. Now onto to talking intelligently.

Again, I wasn't bad mouthing hope or good deeds. I just don't think people need religion to have hope or do good deeds. It is in human nature. If there were no such thing as any religion what-so-ever, people would still hope that good things will happen, people would still do good deeds. There is no need for religion because without it, there would still be all the pluses existing without any of the minuses such as discrimination and the tension religion causes between people. I'm not saying "all religion is evil". I'm saying that without religion, the world would most likely be a much less messy place.

Quote:
an excuse to manipulate people...

No. You can use anything to manipulate someone. I could pick up a 9mm, shoot you in the head, and manipulate the course of your health ... is it the guns fault? No, its mine.

Can you think of any other way Pope Urban II could have assembled an army of thousands of peasants, nobles, and knights for the first crusade at the time? Without thousands of religiously fanatic people waiting to be manipulated, the first crusade wouldn't have happened. I can't think of any other probable way he could've manipulated all those people to go on a trek for more than 2 years to go massacre massive amounts of people. But you're saying you can use anything to manipulate someone, so I'm open to any other suggestions of how all those people could have been manipulated to commit these atrocities at the time. Why did they go massacre massive amounts of people? Because those people were considered "infidels" by their religion and the Pope promised that they could go to heaven if they killed the innocent Muslims and Jews. Why did 9/11 happen? Because Muslim fundamentalists were manipulated by wrongful teachings of their religion. I'm not saying religion is the only thing that manipulates people to do wrong, but more people have been killed for religious purposes than for any other reason. Dosen't that say something?

Quote:
Creationalism and beleiving in big invisible men is common sense?

... and believing in nothing is also?

Why do you think that just because I don't beleive in absurd religious miracles and events that I don't beleive in anything? I beleive in love, making a positive difference, and making the most you can out of life. I also beleive that you don't need religion to beleive in any of these things. The only thing that I see religion adding to the mix is to beleive in things that there is no proof for. Show me god coming down from the sky to bring someone back to life right before my eyes and I just might start beleiving in god. Common sense is what you were born with. Were you carried out of the womb preaching the words of Jesus? Here's a hypothetical question for you. You're an itelligent human being who's been isolated from all forms of religion your whole life. After you've matured, someone comes up to you and tells you there's a big man in the sky that you can't see, but you should still pray to unless you want to go to an imaginary world full of fire and brimstone. Do you beleive them? The answer is no, your common sense rules it out. So you're saying believing in a god is common sense? You're wrong.

Quote:
And what really are morals? They're things accepted to be the norm because a long time ago someone made them up when people weren't well educated and they've been passed on.

So religion aside ... no morals = teh good?

Again...this is getting exhausting...at no point did i say morals are bad. I just saying many moral need to be taken into the 21st century, although many of them are fine. I think I can agree with the moral of not killing anybody. But morals really are, essentially, what we've been told they are. This statement was admittedly more about human nature than religion. Face it, if there were no one to tell us what's right and wrong, the world would be a place of chaos and instinct. People would kill people they got angry at, men would rape women when they felt the need to, and people would steal when they don't have enough to eat. Wait, why would god create us with these instincts? In all seriousness though, most morals are good. Next.

Quote:
So to understand in the first place, I would have to beleive. But to beleive in the first place, I would have to understand. Isn't that a paradox or something?



Not entirely. Do you believe in Sacrifice? Or bed-wetting yourself in the line of danger to save your own hide?

lol, this i just typed to mess with a kid who didn't really state his point clearly. Go back to the first page if you wana see what I'm talking about. But then again, I think that if you want to beleive in something, you should definatley understand it fully. I don't understand how so many people can believe in an invisible avenger in the sky, so I choose not to believe based on my worldly knowledge and there being no hard evidence of any such thing. For example, the word of a fanatic overhyped prophet may be enough for many to believe, but I need more proof than this. The reason most people still believe in any of these things is simply because these beleifs happened to have a strong following at the time so they were passed down through generations. I could go into this more, but I've already spent too much time on this.

Quote:
and arguing is fun.

Argueing is far from debating -- how about you just throw in some cuss words ... that'll change this from debate quickly.

That statement was not meant to be taken seriously at all. Its called sarcasm, and it can sometimes be used to lighten up debates.

Quote:
For all the good religion does, there is just as much bad. And if one can exclude evil acts in the name of religion with statements like "They weren't really religious", then I could say the same for any good act remotely associated with a faith.

But is'int it in question that evil and smart men can manipulate the good and stupid ones? Religion is just the shield -- now which is the sword?

Religion is at most times intended to be the shield, but in countless occurences it nevertheless ends up becoming the reason to use the sword.

Quote:
There's no real such thing as level of education, its just pretty much what I beleive good education is.

Oh Je -, oh sorry, I did'nt mean to offend your ideal of opposing creationism. Please, dont sue or call the ACLU

But anyway -- so this thread is predefined to have an inherent victory for you? You offer very little when you predetermine whats acceptable.

In this case you again took my statement completely out of context, although I do not feel the need to take the time to defend what I said right now when it really isnt relevant to the subject at hand. Not to mention that its 11:30 pm right now where I live and I have school tomarrow :x And why would I even create this thread if I wanted to have a pre-determined victory? I enjoy debating and I like seeing what the other side of the argument is. If you're referring to my defending my views, as I'm doing right now, then why are we even having this conversatin in the first place? Isn't "predetermining what's acceptable" what you're doing by telling me that I'm predetermining what's acceptable? If I didn't want people to defend what they think, this thread would not exist.

^^ all the quotes I included were posted by Kerberos by the way.

whoo, that was alot. Got a little carried away.

 

[MuToiD_MaN]

I also agree with the title of this thread: More harm than good. Not all harm.

 

[A.I.]

I know I'm most likely going to get majorly flamed for this, but by looking at history, it seems to me that religion has done more hurt than help. I'm fine with it being a way to give hope and purpose to people's lives, but not when it gives people an excuse to kill other people because they're belief's differ. Religion seems to lead to irrational violence. Look at the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, 9/11, violence in the Middle East. There's still huge anti-semitism in school for no apparent reason. Gays are discriminated against and have acts of violence directed towards them because being gay is not "God's Way". If God is all powerful, why did he create human beings to even be capable of being gay. If God is all loving, why does he care if people are gay. Scientific advances are held back because stem cell research, which is considered "unholy" was ruled against but the Christians in congress. Stem cell research would allow us to save lives people. Why wouldn't God want us to save lives, even if the means to do it weren't created by him. Religion also serves as an elaborate way for people to be controlled. In the first Crusade, Pope Urban II told the people that if they went out and killed all the Muslims in the Holy Land, they'd get a free trip to heaven. Its very ironic to me how many of the religions that forbid killing have lead to the most murders. Personally, I don't even see how intelligent people can even beleive in an invisible man in the sky for which there is no evidence to except for the rants of men that are today called saints and prophets. Begin the debate. Flame if you want, but don't make it stupid.

I see your point, but I believe you switched religion and politics. All these religion-driven wars were more a political decisions than religious. Church had a lot of political power in the past ages and had political agenda and actions etc. which had little to do with religion (which was unfortunately misused).

And if we're talking about religion in general, we should talk about other religions as well, not christianity only, that just shows that you are generalising religion with christianity (not very smooth )

 

[irjoe]

please dont flame me or quote / respond to my opinions.

////////////////////////////////////


just like what A.I said, the crusades and religious wars in the Middle East barely scratches individuals religion, but focuses on political power and land acquisition. 200 years ago, we expanded our lands and conqured the great plains all the way up to the coast of pacific ocean, and the reason people believed in / thought was that God wanted us to do so. (but had very little to do w/ Religion..)

yet, this does not mean God is a thought-up myth that people used to outsmart others. Lets say God exists and the bible is true. The bible states that God loves all of us with unconditional love. then why does he allow pain, unequal lives, and unfair treatment? (gays, for instance)

When God first created Adam and Eve, he created the world pure (hence, the garden of eden) with no sins, no death, suffering...etc
but he gave us a choice. Im sure most of you all know about the story of the forbidden fruit, which both Adam and Eve eats after being tempted by the snake. He could have easily gotten rid of the fruit, and leave the 2 without any other choices.
But God didnt do that because he loved us.
Let me explain more.
God could have easily made us into 'robots' that are programmed so that we would never get tempted, sin, or stray away from Him. But where is the love in that? Because he loved us so much, he gave us a choice to love him back. Theres no real love if we are just pull-string dolls. "Real love must involve a choice."

Evil was a potential God had to risk when he made us - He did not make it. So if God is the all knowing/seeing God, why didnt he foresee and stop us from having free choice?

Its like starting a relationship with someone you want to be with. In all relationships, there is a potential for it to fail, and the other person to dissapoint you, or even not like you in the end. Yet because you want to be with them, you take the risk of a failed relationship and attempt.

again, im not trying to start a flame war about if God exists or anything. If you have questions, pm me and ill respond to you.

btw: its 2:30 right now and im dead tired, im sorry if i made a lotta gramatical errors, but im sure you all get my point ;P

cheers

 

[Absinthe]

I think the USSR proves what will happen to a country that completely removes god from itself. I don't think a country should push any one religion but freedom of religion is why many people came here in the first place.

The bulk of the USSR's problems did not stem from the removal of religion from the state.

Some religions do teach volience, most don't.

It's really not so much wether or not a religion teaches violence as much as it is that people will always find ways to interpret such teachings from an ambiguous text, and I think that such interpretations are dependent on the character of the individual.

 

[el Chi]

Don't you find it strange that the idea of a God emerged in all cultures of man - before they even had contact with one another?

I'm not religious, but I'm fascinated by the God-complex idea

Same. It's weird, and perhaps a somewhat compelling element to an argument for a divine being of some sort.

I think religions inherently aren't bad things; when things become institutionalised, rigid and overly conservative, that's when problems often arise. Especially the "No, YOU got it wrong, OURS is the right God."
I despise the idea of missionary conversion with every fibre of my being.

 

[KoreBolteR]

religion. its a complex thing really.. people live to worship these things, believe that its true, go through thier lives praying to something theyre not sure even exists.

then there comes wacky priests being outraged at anything that doesnt go thier way...
i also hate the way that the religions try to force youngsters to join, never stopping giving out leaflets and so on..OMG.

if people dont want to believe the same fairy tale story (or any in that matter) let them be.. let us live our lives NORMALLY, instead of being hypnotised with all this religious bs.

no offence to anyone who is.

 

[MuToiD_MaN]

And to think that all this wouldn't have happened if Human beings tended toward finding rational explanations for the things he saw rather than assuming that it's all the work of some supernatural force.