Religon and Poltitcs

[dream431ca]

Here's an interesting topic..got it from a TV show last night..about religon and politics fused as one. I'll talk about Canada and the USA since that was what the show was about:

USA: I heard last night that religion and politics and pretty close together. "God Bless America" and other similar stuff. The show also stated that during the US election, the leaders (especially bush) referred to god often like: "The lord tells me what to do. The lord knows best." So in the USA, religion and politics are pretty closly related...in some people not all.

Canada: In Canada, during the election, if one leader says "It's through God's will that I make Canada the best country in the world", Most Canadians will probably think either, he had to much beer before his speech, or he's gone totally nuts. In Canada, religion and poltics are pretty much seperate. But, it's moving toward the USA in some aspects. Like a small christian organization is getting the attention of the media, saying that there should be more religion within poltics.

Me personally, I don't like to see those 2 together. Religion is a faith, Politics is about running a country...and running it well.

What do you think??

 

[CptStern]

they mix about as well as fire and gasoline

 

[dream431ca]

they mix about as well as fire and gasoline

So they do mix well...but not in a good way.

 

[Kamikazie]

what Stern said.

 

[Llama]

I hate all Religion. Period.

 

[Ikerous]

I like religious people. I don't like voting for them though...

 

[CptStern]

I like religious people. I don't like voting for them though...

so do I, they're all pious, and always smiling (you could bash them on the finger nails with a hammer and I bet they'd forgive you ) and giving you their blessings .....but secretly they do the sign of the cross when you walk by and say a little pray so that god may save your heathen soul ...it's true cuz it happens to me A LOT :O

 

[Ikerous]

and say a little pray so that god may save your heathen soul ...it's true cuz it happens to me A LOT :O

I think it's nice because most of them do it because they honestly care

Religious people, however insane one may or may not be, tend to be pretty good people to have as friends.
However, most feel a little too strongly about their religious convicitions and if they were politicians would likely try to use the government to enforce their views on morality
(Which is obviously a fairly frightening idea)

 

[CptStern]

I know of a sure fire way of getting a religious person visibly upset ...mention same-sex marriages. There's a guy here at work who's very religious, we even discuss theology every now and then but if the subject changes to gays or abortions or creationism he becomes someone else

 

[Absinthe]

**** NO

Only an idiot would think such a thing.

 

[Lemonking]

well, their are certain types of religous people less extreme, and more extreme
my Grandma is religus but she doesnt mind gay people *shrug*

 

[Kamikazie]

its not that they care about gay people, its that they think its wrong to be gay.

 

[Lemonking]

whats wrong with that? isnt that just a opinion?...most people dont even think its wrong, they think its its not normal, which isnt bad imo

 

[CptStern]

who are you to judge what's not "normal"? ..I think it's not "normal" to care what other people do with their lives

 

[Kamikazie]

whats wrong with that? isnt that just a opinion?...most people dont even think its wrong, they think its its not normal, which isnt bad imo

religious people live by the Bible, Koran, etc. and it says in those books something along the lines of "a man should only marry a woman" and people that are gay are breaking those books laws...

 

[Raeven0]

Politics+religion at least has a basis for being pompous.

A government based around religion couldn't be too bad if it also incorporated reason (yes, religion and reason can coexist). Not wanting to purge the land of all other religions would also be a plus...

In Amerika we have this horrible idea that we are One Nation Under God. I say that if we're a Nation Under God, we should act like one; and if we are not, we should not profess to be.

 

[Absinthe]

A government based around religion couldn't be too bad if it also incorporated reason (yes, religion and reason can coexist). Not wanting to purge the land of all other religions would also be a plus...

First of all, let's make the distinction between religious people in the government and religion itself in the government.

There's no problem with the former. So long as they take no action in endorsing their beliefs through legislation or government policy, it's fine. To deprive these people of their own beliefs is unjust.

However, having religion itself ingrained into the government is bad no matter how sensibly people go about it. You will still have the government promoting certain religions overs and showing favoritism. That's unfair to those not belonging to that particular faith or faith in general.

 

[Raziaar]

Religion should not be involved in politics, in my opinion. However... religion needs to be acknowledged and accepted as a fact that much of the world revolves around it. Countries that deal with international things need to learn to tread lightly when dealing with religious countries. You may not like religion in your government, but that doesn't mean you can disrespect and diminish the importance of religion that other countries you're dealing with have in place.

If that makes any sense.

 

[Sulkdodds]

so do I, they're all pious, and always smiling (you could bash them on the finger nails with a hammer and I bet they'd forgive you ) and giving you their blessings .....but secretly they do the sign of the cross when you walk by and say a little pray so that god may save your heathen soul ...it's true cuz it happens to me A LOT

Wow, your religious guys over in America are weird + crazy.

Answer: no.

 

[Ennui]

Can I get a "Hell no" to the religion and politics question.

I don't like it when powerful people play god in the name of righteousness.

 

[Raziaar]

so do I, they're all pious, and always smiling (you could bash them on the finger nails with a hammer and I bet they'd forgive you ) and giving you their blessings .....but secretly they do the sign of the cross when you walk by and say a little pray so that god may save your heathen soul ...it's true cuz it happens to me A LOT :O

Do that to my fingernails... I can almost assure you I would murder you, bury you in my back yard... and ask god for forgiveness because he'd forgive me. All would be swell after that. You know, if I did a good job about concealing the evidence.



Seriously joking, though.

 

[short recoil]

no, if something that affects my life is decided upon someone elses faith then i'm not gonna accept it.......a lot of it already is and i don't accept it.
The only place for religion is in a lunatic asylum ......imho.

 

[Raziaar]

no, if something that affects my life is decided upon someone elses faith then i'm not gonna accept it.......a lot of it already is and i don't accept it.
The only place for religion is in a lunatic asylum ......imho.

Well that's kind of a narrow minded view, isn't it? The latter part. I mean... you worship your muscles... we don't put you in the looney bin for that.

 

[Lemonking]

who are you to judge what's not "normal"? ..I think it's not "normal" to care what other people do with their lives

why do you post in politics then?:|

 

[Raeven0]

However, having religion itself ingrained into the government is bad no matter how sensibly people go about it. You will still have the government promoting certain religions overs and showing favoritism.

I don't have a problem with that.

In a good religious government... your laws are based on religion, and your people have the same basic grasp of a religion, and the government favours its religious members but does not deny the rights of dissenters (though it's perfectly acceptable to outcast them and whatever else).

Government without religion would be easier and perhaps better, but that can't be a basis for saying that religious government is bad.

The Kingdom of God is the longest-living dictatorship in the world at a few centuries short of 2000 years

 

[Absinthe]

In a good religious government... your laws are based on religion, and your people have the same basic grasp of a religion, and the government favours its religious members but does not deny the rights of dissenters (though it's perfectly acceptable to outcast them and whatever else).

Oh yes, perfectly acceptable to outcast your citizens for not sharing a belief in god or, quite probably, your god. Let's drive off the heathens out of intolerance and to preserve this archaic theocracy! Sounds like an excellent body of government.

Sarcasm, if you haven't guessed. And what do you mean by the "basic grasp" of religion? That you need to be a part of it? That you're required to understand it? How can any of that be considered the signs of proper governance?

Government without religion would be easier and perhaps better, but that can't be a basis for saying that religious government is bad.

But it is bad. It's unfair to a very large demographic that exists outside of a particular faith. That's actually horrible. You can sit here and half-assedly justify its concept, but it is inarguable that such a government would discriminate over what should be personal faith. It doesn't need to be a fascist theocratic dictatorship in order for it be wrong.

You said it yourself that government without religion "would be easier and perhaps a lot better". If we're talking to the extent of separation of the Church and State, then I agree. People should have no less.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Depends on the situation.

Fundamentalists, no.

IE: Would I vote in Pat Robertson? No. Would I vote in someone who uses Christian values to shape their life. Yes.

In a general sense, it's not always a bad thing. Needs more poll options.

 

[Absinthe]

"Christian values" is such a vague term...

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

"Christian values" is such a vague term...

It's common sense what it means though.

An atheist can follow and hold a lot of Christian values, too. You know what I mean by it I hope.

The type of people you can point at and say "They're good folks."

 

[Absinthe]

Yeah, I guess I understood what you meant. But at the same time, some people still have very different values of what they consider to be "Christian".

I don't even like labelling common morality as Christian, because that infers faith as a base for morality. "Murder is bad" and "rape is bad" don't strike me as religious, so I don't consider that an issue of church/state.

 

[Steven]

No, a governments decisions shouldn’t have to obey the law's of a religion and just assume that everything that religion says is rite.

 

[15357]

I dislike religious people that try to convert you into their messed-up sense of morality and shit. When religion and politics mix, its hell.


Religion is a societal evil.

 

[dream431ca]

Kinda off-topic but not really: OK! Anyone in Canada who agree's that religion and politics should not be in the same boat, DON'T VOTE CONSERVATIVE!!! Stephen harper is the first politician I have heard say: "God Bless Canada" In this election or any election. Just an warning.

 

[SAJ]

Im no American so I could be wrong, but isnt there something in the US constitution about a seperation of church and state ?

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Im no American so I could be wrong, but isnt there something in the US constitution about a seperation of church and state ?

1st amendment, federal or state legislation can't make any laws with regard to religion.

Candidates can still go in with a religious agenda publically and plan to legislate with regards to their personal beliefs (and their voters, since if they make it that's what their constituents want.) And like I said, that can be a really good thing or be something horrible. If it's a really good thing, all the more power to them.

It's fairly easy to tell when it will or won't be, too, so that's a good thing.

 

[Laivasse]

Of course they shouldn't mix, although as Absinthe said that doesn't mean religious people shouldn't be involved in politics.

But for a start, politics is a cut-throat game and any politician who openly professes to be religious - well, you can make a safe bet that it's likely to be a dirty front to try and get religiously minded people to support them. Even the politician might have conned himself into believing in his own piety on some level, but it will be unlikely that those principles go to the core of his being.

Let's take Tony Blair - how can you have a Christian leader who happily goes to war, killing thousands of innocent civilians? Not only that but then expresses NO humility (humility supposedly being the core of Christianity here...) whatsoever about it, instead taking more of a "You're all wrong! For shame! Only idiots and evildoers doubt me!" stance.

I remember in an interview when David Frost asked Blair if he and Bush had 'prayed together'. Blair looked like someone had stuffed a severed cock down his throat.

 

[bigburpco]

I like religious people... but religion shouldn't be involved in politics; it's surely gonna to give people of the same religion more benefits and piss off the rest who aren't. And if it is extreme, you see the second holocaust.

But it's alright if the state is wholly in the same religion, and aren't extremist (imagine them slaughtering neighbouring countries just because they aren't the same religion :|).

 

[clarky003]

Wheres the 'hell no' option?

 

[Sulkdodds]

why do you post in politics then?

Don't be stupid. It's not about caring what other people do with their lives but rather about caring what powerful people do to other people's lives (and your own).

 

[Llama]

Lol, you quoted him as Lemonking.

I wonder who answered yes *musings*