Replica Firearms and their Legality

[Yuri]

For old time's sake, I decided to make a political thread. Just because I don't think I evar did before. Yep.

So, I'm really into airsoft, which is basically like paintball, only the guns shoot plastic BBs and most are modelled after actual firearms. It's very difficult to get killed in airsoft, but like any sport you can be injured. However, since the guns are usually exact replicas of real firearms, some people do use them irresponsibly, and end up getting shot.

This debate was spurred by something that happened in Florida this morning. A 15 year old kid in Florida brought a black-painted airsoft Beretta to school, and was shot by a police officer that he aimed the gun at. The kid acted as if the pistol were real, and at one point tried to take a hostage. CNN article link Watch the video, as it is more informative.

This is a hot topic of debate in the UK, where the VCR bill, if passed, will outlaw replica guns that are not completely brightly colored, which will ruin airsoft for most people. Currently, there are no restrictions in the UK regarding the appearance of replica guns. (There is a specific law for airsoft, that the power can not exceed 1 Joule, but that is off-topic.) You can read more on the VCR bill here.

So I want to know what you think the laws should be, anywhere. Should replica guns be completely brightly colored (VCR bill), have a brightly colored tip (Or another slight form to distinguish it as a toy and not a real firearm) (Current US law), or have no appearance restrictions whatsoever (Current UK law) Outlawing them completely seems as if it would be impossible, as this would mean, but I will provide it as an option. I realize that people might think that it depends on the legallity of real firearms (In Japan, all real firearms are illegal, but in the US, it is very easy to get almost any type of firearm). But just vote on what you think is best in your situation.

 

[Link]

Actually, uk aw does not make any sort of exemption for airsoft. Anything that fires over 1 joule is an air gun, unless an exemtion exists, such as does for paintball in the UK. There is no mention of airsoft in uk law. I know its off topic, but its lack of knowledge that stands to damage our sport, so I like to correct things like this. [/picky]

As to the topic, its all irrelivent, as you can scrape coloured paint from the tip of a replica, and you can paint orange on the tip of a real gun, so once again, the law abiding people get bent over whilst the criminals get given even more of an advantage. Ain't legislation fun?

 

[Yuri]

Actually, uk aw does not make any sort of exemption for airsoft. Anything that fires over 1 joule is an air gun, unless an exemtion exists, such as does for paintball in the UK. There is no mention of airsoft in uk law. I know its off topic, but its lack of knowledge that stands to damage our sport, so I like to correct things like this. [/picky]

As to the topic, its all irrelivent, as you can scrape coloured paint from the tip of a replica, and you can paint orange on the tip of a real gun, so once again, the law abiding people get bent over whilst the criminals get given even more of an advantage. Ain't legislation fun?

No, that's cool, I thought it was for anything, but then I thought that paintball must be hard to play, cuz the balls are much heavier than .2g... so you'd end up having to like, throw them. Thanks for the info, though

The whole point of this, though, is that those who take the paint off or paint their guns black can get in serious trouble.

And I want to know what the person who voted to illegalize replica firearms' opinion is.

 

[dream431ca]

Excellent topic and excellent poll choices. I picked the first one (no design change needed for those types of guns). People should be smart enough that you don't take a pellet gun to school....or any gun for that matter. This comes down to common sense, rather than having the gun a bright colour or something else.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Link made a good point. What if the crazy kid in Florida had painted a real gun with an organge tip, no one took him seriously, and he shot someone there. It's ineffective because the cap can also be easily removed or the gun repainted/redone.

Anyone planning on robbing a bank or other criminal activity will easily take the couple hours or so it takes to do that. If not just use a real firearm. So nothing seems to be prevented.

 

[Yuri]

Anyone planning on robbing a bank or other criminal activity will easily take the couple hours or so it takes to do that. If not just use a real firearm. So nothing seems to be prevented.

With that mentality, we shouldn't have any laws "since people will just break them." If someone removes the required orange paint, then thats another thing that can be slapped onto their criminal acts, and maybe warrant further punishment.

Having brightly colored spots on guns might save people who unwillingly get the attention of police or neighbors when playing a game or transporting their weapons. If you leave a gun in the backseat of your car, it might save your ass if it has something to distinguish it from a real gun.

But having completely brightly colored guns seems unneccesary to me, and really ruins a lot of the fun of airsoft.

The bottom line for me, is if you want to use replicas to commit crimes, then you should be treated as if the gun you use was real. But replica owners shouldn't be punished too much because there are irresponsible criminals. An orange marking doesn't really detract from the fun of the replica, and makes it so that misunderstandings won't take place as easily.

 

[pvtbones]

haven't voted on the poll yet as I'm still trying to decide, but perhaps it would be "best" is the guns on there own were coloured but you could buy thin shells than you could slap on when you play but could not be used in "non-zoned" (for lack of a better word) areas such as airsoft parks or your own personal property (assuming you live out of a city)?

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

With that mentality, we shouldn't have any laws "since people will just break them." If someone removes the required orange paint, then thats another thing that can be slapped onto their criminal acts, and maybe warrant further punishment.

Not really, the logic applies to any law regarding prohibition of an item, not an act. Rape, murder, thievery, etc will always be illegal.

Making the knives someone can stab with illegal, doesn't stop the stabbings. Same thing applies to the guns issue.

 

[Yuri]

haven't voted on the poll yet as I'm still trying to decide, but perhaps it would be "best" is the guns on there own were coloured but you could buy thin shells than you could slap on when you play but could not be used in "non-zoned" (for lack of a better word) areas such as airsoft parks or your own personal property (assuming you live out of a city)?

Just to let you know, in a lot of cities like New York City, replicas are illegal. Makes sense, because there is no where to play.

Not really, the logic applies to any law regarding prohibition of an item, not an act. Rape, murder, thievery, etc will always be illegal.

Making the knives someone can stab with illegal, doesn't stop the stabbings. Same thing applies to the guns issue.

So you would be all for the legalization of hard drugs, since people use them anyways? (Just to let you know-- I am, but they would have to be restricted)

 

[jmjneary]

yay for canadian replica laws move up here and your airsoft may be hard to get but you will not have any orange tips required

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Just to let you know, in a lot of cities like New York City, replicas are illegal. Makes sense, because there is no where to play.

So you would be all for the legalization of hard drugs, since people use them anyways? (Just to let you know-- I am, but they would have to be restricted)

To a lesser extent. Hard drug restriction has logic in it that people don't tend to be doing the most lawful things when amped up on heroin, and there's generally a link between criminal activity and the usage of hard drugs like that (legal or not.)

But yeah, same train of thought. Prohibition of something, for the most part at least there are some exceptions, doesn't work.

 

[ríomhaire]

No restriction.

 

[Bob_Marley]

This is a hot topic of debate in the UK, where the VCR bill, if passed, will outlaw replica guns that are not completely brightly colored

Not true. The VCRB will outlaw the manufacture, sale and importation of "realistic imitation firearms". Airsoft guns that were held before the bill will still be leagal to own (for now...).

Also, It doesnt matter what colour the gun is. If the bill is passed any replica will be illegal to sell, import or build. So even if, for instance a Glock 18 replica was bright orange it would still be illegal to sell, import or manufature it.

Also the definition of a RIF is rather (read: extremely) vauge. it states that anything that could be mistaken for a gun by a member of the public is an RIF. And, as recent examples have shown, virtually anything black and rectangular can be mistaken for a gun by Joe Bloggs. In addition, the wording of the bill in its current form makes it illegal to sell/import/manufacture black rectangular boxes as these could be mistaken for folding submachine guns (i.e. the Russian PP-90).

The only reason for the new bill (well, this section of it) is that due to pressure groups like MAG the govenment wants to be seen to be taking action against gun crime. So, they cant ban handguns, full bore semi autos and fully automatic weapons again and actually enforcing the current laws (which are perfectly satisfactory, anything that is believed to be a gun by a person being threatend, etc is treated as a real gun for the purposes of the law) is an impossibility due to overcrowded prisions and too much adminisitrative work for police officers per arrest leaves them the option of banning IFs (which account for all of 0.02% of crime in the UK).

 

[short recoil]

I think they should ban ANYTHING that remotely resembles a weapon, because they may as well.
I've had enough of gun laws and couldn't care less what they propose.
So they should ban pictures of guns incase a child holds open a book and a police officer thinks the child has stuck a firearm to one of the pages.
A gun is such an inherently evil device it shouldn't even be in peoples memories.

 

[Ikerous]

I'm against most if not all consensual crime laws.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

So they should ban pictures of guns incase a child holds open a book and a police officer thinks the child has stuck a firearm to one of the pages.

Hahah, legendary!

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Link]

I think they should ban ANYTHING that remotely resembles a weapon, because they may as well.
I've had enough of gun laws and couldn't care less what they propose.
So they should ban pictures of guns incase a child holds open a book and a police officer thinks the child has stuck a firearm to one of the pages.
A gun is such an inherently evil device it shouldn't even be in peoples memories.

Sorry if you are being sarcastic and I missed it, but if not, stfu. Replica guns bring much entertainment to legally abiding citizens, such as myself. Just because you don't see a legal fun use for them, does not mean they should be banned.

If we follow your logic, given the proliferation of HIV, the logical thing to do is make sex illegal and only allow reproduction via IVF. After all, far more people have been killed by aids than by replica weapons.

 

[Flyingdebris]

you'll take my airsoft SPAS-12 out of my cold dead hands!

 

[short recoil]

Sorry if you are being sarcastic and I missed it, but if not, stfu. Replica guns bring much entertainment to legally abiding citizens, such as myself. Just because you don't see a legal fun use for them, does not mean they should be banned.

If we follow your logic, given the proliferation of HIV, the logical thing to do is make sex illegal and only allow reproduction via IVF. After all, far more people have been killed by aids than by replica weapons.

Don't worry mate, i love replica guns, i play airsoft etc.

I just feel like giving up trying to fight gun laws...
I know no matter what happens the majority will get their way, the millions of mothers who seem to think even having guns on posters and adverts will cause their precious little one harm will have all guns in any shape or form, banned.
This year it will be replicas and deacts, next year it will be airguns....then they'll say "why does anyone need to shoot clays or kill deer"
All guns will be banned.

And btw, on the topic of HIV...the reason they wouldn't ban sex to stop the spread of HIV is because the government dosn't actually care about people dying, they don't ban guns due to people dying either, they ban them because it removes any threat of resistance....a seperation of state and people makes it easier for them to control, the state is no longer the servant of the people but the master.
In the UK for example, even when we had semi automatic fullbore rifle and handguns (pre 1988) gun deaths were relatively low compared to other causes of death, some things which could be a lot easier and cheaper to ban than guns.
It's gonna be ****ing horrible when your rights are stripped away, what will you be able to do?

Ok, so i sound like a right wing yank but it's the truth.

 

[Link]

If they do ban replicas, I may start a campain of buying real guns on the black market and leaving them in schools.

 

[short recoil]

If they do ban replicas, I may start a campain of buying real guns on the black market and leaving them in schools.

If they do ban replicas, i'll run into the centre of london NAKED with my entire collection of airsoft.

Yes, i am joking.

 

[Solaris]

Its just blatent fear mongering.

Gun crime is so low, theres no need. Its just Labour selling out to the daily mail yet again.

 

[Yuri]

Not true. The VCRB will outlaw the manufacture, sale and importation of "realistic imitation firearms". Airsoft guns that were held before the bill will still be leagal to own (for now...).

Also, It doesnt matter what colour the gun is. If the bill is passed any replica will be illegal to sell, import or build. So even if, for instance a Glock 18 replica was bright orange it would still be illegal to sell, import or manufature it.

Also the definition of a RIF is rather (read: extremely) vauge. it states that anything that could be mistaken for a gun by a member of the public is an RIF. And, as recent examples have shown, virtually anything black and rectangular can be mistaken for a gun by Joe Bloggs. In addition, the wording of the bill in its current form makes it illegal to sell/import/manufacture black rectangular boxes as these could be mistaken for folding submachine guns (i.e. the Russian PP-90).

The only reason for the new bill (well, this section of it) is that due to pressure groups like MAG the govenment wants to be seen to be taking action against gun crime. So, they cant ban handguns, full bore semi autos and fully automatic weapons again and actually enforcing the current laws (which are perfectly satisfactory, anything that is believed to be a gun by a person being threatend, etc is treated as a real gun for the purposes of the law) is an impossibility due to overcrowded prisions and too much adminisitrative work for police officers per arrest leaves them the option of banning IFs (which account for all of 0.02% of crime in the UK).

I don't live in the UK, so I'm really not that well-read-up on the VCR bill. Thanks for clarifying. I thought I remembered reading somewhere that they were considering changing the bill so that the brightly colored replicas would still be legal.

And you're completely right-- anything can resemble a gun in certain circumstances. There are too many cases of this. Just a few years ago a man was shot something like 35 times because he was surrounded by police, who thought he was some kind of terrorist. He didn't speak English, so he pulled out his wallet, thinking they were mistaking him for an illegal alien and trying to get his papers. One officer mistook a WALLET for a gun, and opened fire, which led just about every other officer to empty their clips into the man.

the reason they wouldn't ban sex to stop the spread of HIV is because the government dosn't actually care about people dying

No, I think it has more to do with that being an impossible thing to ban, and would pretty much automatically make the government considered a totalitarian state. :upstare:

If they do ban replicas, i'll run into the centre of london NAKED with my entire collection of airsoft. :laughing:

I'm down. ;D

Its just blatent fear mongering.

Gun crime is so low, theres no need. Its just Labour selling out to the daily mail yet again.

I don't know what you're talking about...

Just to let you all know, I'm for the prohibition of any non-hunting oriented firearms. I'd like to keep clear of an actual firearm legality debate, though, since that is another topic entirely.

 

[Raziaar]

If you're using it outside, I think a brightly colored tip should be in use. In home, no need for it(mine is interchangable).

However, to avoid MANY problems when operating within the bounds of the law as far as where you're airsofting... always notify the police of a gathering of people playing something like airsoft, so they're not surprised when they get a call about people wielding guns yelling at each other in whatever particular area you're at.

 

[Revisedsoul]

*************************** holy s*** guys my computer just freaked out and posted like 10 times sorry can someone get rid of those ********************************

happened to me to hardware fourms

if your using firefox and you click it more than ones that happens

just started recently.

 

[Yuri]

Anybody else? Seems like the Politics forum isn't for politics sometimes, its only for saying that Bush sucks and/or being nationalistic and/or racist.

 

[JNightshade]

They need to invent an invisible coating that turns colors when, say, an electrical charge is applied. Hence, you have an airsoft gun in your house, and when you want to take it somewhere: simple, just press a button and watch the tip turn bright orange.

 

[Nat Turner]

Don't worry mate, i love replica guns, i play airsoft etc.

I just feel like giving up trying to fight gun laws...
I know no matter what happens the majority will get their way, the millions of mothers who seem to think even having guns on posters and adverts will cause their precious little one harm will have all guns in any shape or form, banned.
This year it will be replicas and deacts, next year it will be airguns....then they'll say "why does anyone need to shoot clays or kill deer"
All guns will be banned.

And btw, on the topic of HIV...the reason they wouldn't ban sex to stop the spread of HIV is because the government dosn't actually care about people dying, they don't ban guns due to people dying either, they ban them because it removes any threat of resistance....a seperation of state and people makes it easier for them to control, the state is no longer the servant of the people but the master.
In the UK for example, even when we had semi automatic fullbore rifle and handguns (pre 1988) gun deaths were relatively low compared to other causes of death, some things which could be a lot easier and cheaper to ban than guns.
It's gonna be ****ing horrible when your rights are stripped away, what will you be able to do?

Ok, so i sound like a right wing yank but it's the truth.

QFT on the entire thing.

It's sad because there's nothing you can really do to stop the totalitarian trend in the U.K., as it's already in full swing. I'm glad to live here in the U.S., where we still have a fighting chance.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

QFT on the entire thing.

It's sad because there's nothing you can really do to stop the totalitarian trend in the U.K., as it's already in full swing. I'm glad to live here in the U.S., where we still have a fighting chance.

Hahahahahahahahaha!


sry.

 

[Nat Turner]

Hahahahahahahahaha!


sry.

You won't be laughing when government agents install video cameras in your house. I don't think it's that far off.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

You won't be laughing when government agents install video cameras in your house. I don't think it's that far off.

I do, the british government wouldnt want to.... but even if they did they are still waaaaay too scared of looseing elections.


Thank god!

 

[Link]

Why is everyone obsessed with the idea of video cameras in their homes? Aside from the fact that doing this would be permanent political suicide to whichever party did it, not to mention a free lunch ticket for the opposition, who would promise to remove them, what would be the actual harm? If some faceless government agent wants to watch me watch other people on the TV, I'm not interested. If they want to watch me on the freaking bog, I don't care. Much as my daily ablutions may be cursed as evil by some, the goverment would never be able to use this against me, even if they wanted to.

Aside from all the other crap surrounding this issue, this is tantamount to searching someones home, which in a democratc society, can only be done under court order, given by a judge, who has seen good reason to issue it. You really see a judge listening to 60 million requests for warrents and issuing them? I don't. So drop it, it will never happen.

[/derailment]
JNightshade - Given the airsoft batterys magical ability to go flat at exactly the wrong moment, this may not be the best solution

 

[Yuri]

You know, if JDNightshade's idea happened, people would put in into real guns all the time.

 

[Glo-Boy]

I think they should be illegal because they're stupid.

 

[Link]

How productive. You want to ban something because you don't understand it. Jack Thompson would be proud.

 

[Yuri]

I think they should be illegal because they're stupid.

What a fantastic opinion backed with a well-thought out and constructed arguement. :upstare:

 

[Yuri]

*cough*

This is a good topic of discussion, if you ask me. :angel:

 

[kirovman]

omg necromancer bant lol

 

[Yuri]

You couldn't even vote ya bastard?

 

[kirovman]

ok, voted. But bright identifying colours - maybe criminals would make a bright identifier on their real guns?