Republicans Paid Legal Fees of Bush Campaign Official

[No Limit]

You don't say, the GOP doesn't support fair elections???

By JOHN SOLOMON,
Associated Press Writer
Thu Aug 11, 3:08 AM ET

WASHINGTON - Despite a zero-tolerance policy on tampering with voters, the Republican Party has quietly paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to provide private defense lawyers for a former Bush campaign official charged with conspiring to keep Democrats from voting in New Hampshire.

James Tobin, the president's 2004 campaign chairman for New England, is charged in New Hampshire federal court with four felonies accusing him of conspiring with a state GOP official and a GOP consultant in Virginia to jam Democratic and labor union get-out-the-vote phone banks in November 2002.

A telephone firm was paid to make repeated hang-up phone calls to overwhelm the phone banks in New Hampshire and prevent them from getting Democratic voters to the polls on Election Day 2002, prosecutors allege. Republican John Sununu won a close race that day to be New Hampshire's newest senator.

At the time, Tobin was the RNC's New England regional director, before moving to President Bush's 2004 re-election campaign...

...

Since charges were first filed in December, the RNC has spent more than $722,000 to provide Tobin, who has pleaded innocent, a team of lawyers from the high-powered Washington law firm of Williams & Connolly. The firm's other clients include Bill and Hillary Clinton and former Housing Secretary Henry Cisneros.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050811/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_voter_suppression

 

[seinfeldrules]

Riiigghhhhtttt like the Dems played pure as snow during the elections either. Please tell me you dont think that.

 

[Gray Fox]

Riiigghhhhtttt like the Dems played pure as snow during the elections either. Please tell me you dont think that.

why do i always hear that, but never see any proof from you people.

 

[No Limit]

why do i always hear that, but never see any proof from you people.

Good question.

Seinfeld, don't tell me you support what he did. Because the GOP seems to.

 

[seinfeldrules]

I dont support anybody ****ing with the elections. People should be free to vote for anybody on election day without all the shit both parties put them through. I'm just making sure you realize that both parties do it.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Heres just one example from the other side (from a 10 sec google search):

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=17718

Regarding the 1980 California Assembly race between Republican Adrian Fondse and Democrat Pat Johnston, Nolan recalled that the Republican won "by about 54 votes or so."

But after the election, Democrats "brought in their junkyard dog lawyers from around the country," said Nolan, "and basically harassed the local registrar -- got in their faces and demanded to handle ballots" -- which were of the same type now in dispute in Palm Beach.

The same issue of "hanging chads -- the little squares in the punch cards -- was also an issue in Stockton," says Nolan. The Democrats' strategy, he says, was to handle them as often as possible -- perhaps bending, crinkling or otherwise altering them -- so that additional chads become displaced, thereby disqualifying the ballot.

The result? In the Stockton election, Nolan said Democrats were successful in getting the vote count reversed from a plus-54 win by Republicans to a minus-17 loss.

"I vowed that I'd never let that happen again," Nolan said. "So I asked my staff to track down the lawyer that headed up the team for the Democrats."

Haueter was, at that time, chief of staff for Nolan, and it was he who first contacted attorney Tim Downs, who readily admitted the Democratic strategy and even described the tactics to Nolan.

"When I first called him and explained to him who I was and why I was calling, he chuckled and said, 'I wondered when you guys would get around to calling me,'" Haueter said, adding that Downs told him -- "'I've taken several seats from you across the United States.'"

"Downs told me, somewhat tongue-in-cheek, 'You get me within 100 votes and I can steal any election,'"

 

[No Limit]

Heres just one example from the other side (from a 10 sec google search):

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=17718

You are showing a case from 1980??? And you are showing a case where the Republicans did the exact same thing in 2000???

Yes, both parties do it to some extent but what this guy did was absolutely disgusting and your party is defending him. That's my point.

 

[qckbeam]

Both parties are full of people who get paid to give the public a snow job for any issue that makes them look bad. They are both full of professional liars. They are both dirty. They are both horrible. They both suck. It's disgusting. The only honest thing to do when it comes to politics and politicians is to be a cynic and hate everyone equally regardless of what party they identify with or what self-appointed “liberal/conservative” bullshit label they wear so proudly on their sleeves. Politicians are people. Both parties are made up of politicians. People are generally selfish, and so politicians are as well. Every other post in this forum is wasted defending either Democrats or Republicans and the truth is that both of them share the same dirty, filthy, rotten heart.

 

[seinfeldrules]

You are showing a case from 1980???

Again, it was a 10 sec google search. Two stories I remember this year was the GOP break in in Oregon and cars that Republicans bought to transport voters had their tires slashed. Its foolish for you to post something like this in shock. As qckbeam said both sides are guilty.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

United States Corporatist Party. A third way.

 

[No Limit]

Again, it was a 10 sec google search. Two stories I remember this year was the GOP break in in Oregon and cars that Republicans bought to transport voters had their tires slashed. Its foolish for you to post something like this in shock. As qckbeam said both sides are guilty.

I am not going to discuss that as you seem to have this tendency to pick up on the minor points of a discussion. I want you to address why the GOP is defending this guy.

 

[No Limit]

Both parties are full of people who get paid to give the public a snow job for any issue that makes them look bad. They are both full of professional liars. They are both dirty. They are both horrible. They both suck. It's disgusting. The only honest thing to do when it comes to politics and politicians is to be a cynic and hate everyone equally regardless of what party they identify with or what self-appointed “liberal/conservative” bullshit label they wear so proudly on their sleeves. Politicians are people. Both parties are made up of politicians. People are generally selfish, and so politicians are as well. Every other post in this forum is wasted defending either Democrats or Republicans and the truth is that both of them share the same dirty, filthy, rotten heart.

So what I got from you is don't criticise politicians when they do wrong as they suck anyway? Did I misunderstand?

Yes, both parties do wrong, that is no mystery. But when I see the republican party defending a crook that manipulated elections I will speak out, thats how democracy works. On the other hand if you have some examples of Democrats doing this I gurantee you I will also speak out. Its not about wearing one label and never agreeing with the other side; its about considering part of a party that shares more of your common views and values. For me this would be the democratic party but that doesn't mean everything I do or say has to follow the democratic party line.

 

[seinfeldrules]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-01-24-tires-slashed_x.htm

MILWAUKEE (AP) — The sons of a first-term congresswoman and Milwaukee's former acting mayor were among five Democratic activists charged Monday with slashing the tires of vans rented by Republicans to drive voters and monitors to the polls on Election Day.
Sowande Omokunde, son of Rep. Gwen Moore, D-Wis., and Michael Pratt, the son of former Milwaukee acting mayor Marvin Pratt, were among those charged with criminal damage to property, a felony that carries a maximum punishment of 3½ years in prison and a $10,000 fine.

The activists are accused of flattening the tires on 25 vehicles rented by the state Republican Party to get out the vote and deliver poll watchers Nov. 2.
...

The GOP rented more than 100 vehicles that were parked in a lot adjacent to a Bush campaign office. The party planned to drive poll watchers to polling places by 7 a.m. and deliver any voters who didn't have a ride.

The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel quoted sources Sunday as saying the five were paid staffers.

 

[T.H.C.138]

the truth is that both of them share the same dirty, filthy, rotten heart.

QFE...

 

[No Limit]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-01-24-tires-slashed_x.htm

Again, you are totally missing the point and I think you are doing it on purpose. The point is the DNC is not defending those scum bags, but your party is.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Again, you are totally missing the point and I think you are doing it on purpose. The point is the DNC is not defending those scum bags, but your party is.

Doesnt mean they didnt push them to do it in the first place. You know it was wrong, admit it. This is only one of many stories from both sides.

 

[No Limit]

Doesnt mean they didnt push them to do it in the first place. You know it was wrong, admit it. This is only one of many stories from both sides.

What the hell are you talking about? Yes, it was wrong, this has nothing to do with it. Do you have any evidance of the DNC pushing him to do it? No. And I have no evidance of the RNC pushing James Tobin to do what he did so I don't say things like that without getting evidance first. What I have is the RNC defending what he did. If you have a similar issue with the DNC doing the same thing feel free to post it.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Do you have any evidance of the DNC pushing him to do it?

They were all paid thousands of dollars by the DNC. Furthermore, they drove to the area in a car rented by the DNC. Perphaps they should be more careful in the type of people they choose to help campaign. Apparently the RNC should as well.

 

[No Limit]

They were all paid thousands of dollars by the DNC. Furthermore, they drove to the area in a car rented by the DNC. Perphaps they should be more careful in the type of people they choose to help campaign. Apparently the RNC should as well.

I don't know if you simply don't understand or your are just ignoring what I am telling you. You have no evidance the DNC pushed them to do it, I have no evidance the RNC pushed him to do it. The whole point of this is the RNC is defending him. If you have a case where the DNC defended a guy that manipulated elections post it, everything else is just you blowing smoke to distract how corrupt this situation is.

 

[seinfeldrules]

If you have a case where the DNC defended a guy that manipulated elections post it, everything else is just you blowing smoke to distract how corrupt this situation is.

You're just blowing smoke to distract how corrupt everyone is. Face it, the Dems are just as bad as Republicans.

 

[No Limit]

You're just blowing smoke to distract how corrupt everyone is. Face it, the Dems are just as bad as Republicans.

You say this yet you haven't been able to give me one example of the DNC defending a cheater.

 

[seinfeldrules]

You say this yet you haven't been able to give me one example of the DNC defending a cheater.

They were keen enough to hire people who slashed the tires of 25 vehicles. Face it, you stick up for Dems no matter what. I cant believe you actually think your party is innocent.

 

[qckbeam]

So what I got from you is don't criticise politicians when they do wrong as they suck anyway? Did I misunderstand?

I think it's fantastic when citizens refuse to put up with political bullshit. Being tough on our leaders is the only way to make sure things get done right. The thing that scares me most about the US today is the lack of questioning; the lack of anger, outrage, and accountability. It infuriates me to see Presidents and Senators treated like royalty or superiors when, in reality, it’s the complete opposite. They bend the knee to us; it’s that simple.

Now, I get pissed when I see that harsh criticism is only flowing one way. That’s hypocrisy, that’s petty, and that does nothing to help this country. Certain republicans, some on this forum, spend all their time defending their party no matter how many facts you beat them in the head with while they chew “the opposition” to pieces for any inane reason they can come up with. And there are Democrats, some on this forum, who spend all of their energy bashing all Republicans to pieces while they pretend their own party is infallible- beyond human error. The thing is, both parties are dirty. They are both molded from the same stinking pile of bullshit. Some people on both sides are so blind that good ideas and genuine criticisms are missed or fall on deaf ears while real crimes go unpunished. In this forum there are some posts (even entire threads) that sound like something I’d expect to hear during a conversation between two prepubescent console fanboys on opposite sides of the fence. There are political conversations where you could literally replace Democrat with Nintendo and Republican with Microsoft, rename the thread “OMG, M$ SUX”, and pass the new monstrosity off as a genuine gamer flame-war. It’s sickening.

By the way, I'm not attacking you or anyone else in particular. It's just something I've wanted to say.

 

[el Chi]

Aaaaah! qck!

 

[Ennui]

Aaaaah! qck!

seconded!

 

[qckbeam]

Hello lovelies

 

[No Limit]

They were keen enough to hire people who slashed the tires of 25 vehicles. Face it, you stick up for Dems no matter what. I cant believe you actually think your party is innocent.

Debating with you is worthless. You clearly don't have a point yet you have to have the last word. I and the DNC did not defend what this guy did as I hope you don't defend what Tobin did. However, your party, the RNC, is defending what he did. Simple as that, you have nothing to counter that yet you are going to come back in here and post bullshit to have the last word. With that said I'll allow you to do that, I will not reply to you again unless you bring something new up. I have a case of the RNC defending a fraud, you don't have a case where the DNC does, simple as that.

 

[No Limit]

I think it's fantastic when citizens refuse to put up with political bullshit. Being tough on our leaders is the only way to make sure things get done right. The thing that scares me most about the US today is the lack of questioning; the lack of anger, outrage, and accountability. It infuriates me to see Presidents and Senators treated like royalty or superiors when, in reality, it’s the complete opposite. They bend the knee to us; it’s that simple.

Now, I get pissed when I see that harsh criticism is only flowing one way. That’s hypocrisy, that’s petty, and that does nothing to help this country. Certain republicans, some on this forum, spend all their time defending their party no matter how many facts you beat them in the head with while they chew “the opposition” to pieces for any inane reason they can come up with. And there are Democrats, some on this forum, who spend all of their energy bashing all Republicans to pieces while they pretend their own party is infallible- beyond human error. The thing is, both parties are dirty. They are both molded from the same stinking pile of bullshit. Some people on both sides are so blind that good ideas and genuine criticisms are missed or fall on deaf ears while real crimes go unpunished. In this forum there are some posts (even entire threads) that sound like something I’d expect to hear during a conversation between two prepubescent console fanboys on opposite sides of the fence. There are political conversations where you could literally replace Democrat with Nintendo and Republican with Microsoft, rename the thread “OMG, M$ SUX”, and pass the new monstrosity off as a genuine gamer flame-war. It’s sickening.

By the way, I'm not attacking you or anyone else in particular. It's just something I've wanted to say.

I respect you and I think you make a good point, but you make it seem as if I owe it to someone to be fair and balanced. To a person that doesn't pay much attention to politics I'm about as extreme left as I could be and others on this board are about as far right as you can get. My job is to post when I see Republicans being asshats and it is their job to post when Democrats are asshats; you can not expect it to be the other way around. This is not to say I will always defend Democrats and the right will always defend Republicans. I have come out and been harsh to Democrats including Sandy Berger, I have disagreed with Stern on gun control, and many other issues. But if you honestly expect me to be posting equal amount of bad things about Democrats as I do to Republicans you will be greatly disappointed, that is not my job. Take this case as an example, I post about the GOP defending a fraud that manipulated elections, it is the job of people like seinfeld to provide valid points if they choose to defend this guy. Seinfeld's defense was that all sides do it so its okay but yet I couldn't get him to give me one example. That's how debate works. If you are going to defend someone you should have valid points to defend them with. I don't always do this but I do try, pointing out in every thread I make that I am too hard on Republicans completely misses the point of politics. Your fan boy example was dead on, the only difference here is that we aren't talking about a game but we are talking about whats going on in the world, something that we should be forced to discuss. If everyone in this country took 10 minutes out of their day to look at all sides of an issue fairly this world would be a much better place; and that is what debate does, it lets you look at one issue from all points of view and then decide for yourself which you think is right.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Seinfeld's defense was that all sides do it so its okay but yet I couldn't get him to give me one example.

Do you think for every specific example from the right side there is another from the left and vice versa? No. There isnt ever going to be a case that falls into the exact same scenario that you are attempting to show. You dismiss points because they dont fall into the exact situation you want. You are basically saying that it doesnt matter if the DNC pushes people to commit these acts, as long as they dont stupidly reveal their legal defense. All I can do is show you that the left participates in very questionable election scandals themselves. Whether or not you have the ability to acknowledge that is your problem.

 

[No Limit]

Do you think for every specific example from the right side there is another from the left and vice versa? No. There isnt ever going to be a case that falls into the exact same scenario that you are attempting to show. You dismiss points because they dont fall into the exact situation you want. You are basically saying that it doesnt matter if the DNC pushes people to commit these acts, as long as they dont stupidly reveal their legal defense. All I can do is show you that the left participates in very questionable election scandals themselves. Whether or not you have the ability to acknowledge that is your problem.

See this is your problem. I asked you for evidance of the DNC pushing them to do it, you couldn't give me any. Yet, you repeat it again as if I won't call you on it. What both people did was their own doing, the DNC and the RNC had nothing to do with it. People are asses, this is the case in both parties. The difference here is that your party is defending the ass that played for their side while the DNC distanced themselves from the crooks. I don't think I can even get you to admit what the RNC is doing in this case is wrong.

 

[seinfeldrules]

I asked you for evidance of the DNC pushing them to do it, you couldn't give me any.

The DNC paid them thousands of dollars while also providing a rental car that they used to drive to the scene. Its adds up for me.

I don't think I can even get you to admit what the RNC is doing in this case is wrong.

.........

I dont support anybody ****ing with the elections. People should be free to vote for anybody on election day without all the shit both parties put them through. I'm just making sure you realize that both parties do it.

 

[No Limit]

The DNC paid them thousands of dollars while also providing a rental car that they used to drive to the scene. Its adds up for me.



.........

You have no evidance. They were paid employees, there is absoutely nothing to suggest the DNC asked them to do it. The people were there to get out the vote, not slash tires.

I'm glad you don't support this but again, your party does.