Requiem: recruiting wholesale opinions

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Veavitdpoh

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In a Seattle coffeeshop, in the dark of night, a lonely man sits - until an explosion rocks the sleepy city, catapulting him into a nightmarish vision of hell on earth, of demons among men and unholy destruction... into a past he's done everything in his power to avoid.

"Sinner!"
"Nice to meet you too."
"What are you doing here?"
"I wish I knew."
"Ineffable?"
"Too f--king right."
"D--n! I hate it when She does this! -all right, listen up. Gabriel's sword is in there."
"W-what? How did a seraphim's instrument fall into mortal hands?"
"I don't know. Someone's pulling some sort of Prometheus bulls--t. The Lightbearer pulled a raid, our guardians retaliated, it's a slaughterhouse in there... we've got a cruciform barrier around the site now, they can't get out. Are you holding? Secular, of course."
"Yes, I'm holding, Raziel- I came through the monorail. The tunnel is breached, you understand? They've got an exit route."
"Oh, no. Did you close it off?"
"Secular, of course."
"You really piss me off, you know that? Go. Get in there, get the sword and punch through to the monorail - they have to have it cleared if that's where they're headed. I'll drop in at the terminal and close off their path for good. Walk with God, Sinner... try real hard."

But the past is a shadow, one inseperable even by the harshest light. And that shadow plagues him, haunts him, drives him back into a deadly chain of events that threatens to destroy not only him, and not merely this world - but the next as well.

"Nicholas... sinner among saints..."
"Don't start with that s--t, just... just relax, try not to move, I'll get some help..."
"It's done, apostle. You know well the power of the disciples... they match us in strength and conviction. Without your faith, you can't match their poison. And I'm afraid my temperance is no match for his wrath. It's time to reach for Her light again."
"Don't talk like that, dammit! They need you! Adriel, I need you. I can't do this alone, I need help!"
"Reach within yourself, Nicholas."
"Real help, okay? She's not here, She never was. You are."
"We are far from home, you and I. Our mother, She is one source of faith. You are another. Reach within yourself, find... the peace that you so desperately need..."
"Adriel- no! Stay with me! Don't- oh, hell. ...no. Oh, no f--king way. You will not give me your power, you hear me? Take it back! I put my wings aside, Adriel! Take it back!"

Become a force of divine retribution, struggling not for righteousness but for survival. Wield dozens of angelic powers and secular weapons, walking between the gates of heaven and the fires of hell. Seek your bretheren, challenge your enemies, and confront your past... because the future of all that is rests in your hands.

"So there's the Trinity, right?"
"Father, son, holy ghost."
"By literal interpretation that represents god, Jesus and spirituality, which is well and good. But by another interpretation, by one that just happens to be accurate... father represents god, She who is called I am. Son represents the heavenly host, the angels and the enlightened."
"And holy ghost?"
"There's the kicker. Spirituality, yeah. You know the seven virtues, before you strayed from the fold you were one of them."
"Wait, you're telling me the apostles are a part of the trinity?!"
"Prudence. Temperance. Fortitude. Justice, Faith, Hope and Charity. These apostles, and like it or not you're one of them - we comprise the third leg of the trinity. If someone knocks that leg down, the foundation of Her power will be shaken to the core. We're talking about a fundamental change that will tip the balance of power."
"Why isn't this in scripture? Dammit, Azrael, why weren't we informed? We walked the earth in mortal guise!"
"Because we have to walk the earth in mortal guise or humanity gains no benefit! And what happens if it's common knowledge? Every zealot that thinks armageddon is a good idea would be out to ice the apostles. The mortals came up with a very good phrase for it - Mutually Assured Destruction. With the trinity threatened, someone could panic, and the mortal coil would become a golgotha, a place of stones and bone."
"Well, someone does know, don't they?"
"...yes. We've got a Judas."
"And I'm the first suspect, aren't I."
"None of us turned from Her eyes, Nicholas. But we'll sort that out later. We need sanctuary, we need it fast. Understand this, child of heaven... the trinity cannot be sundered. No matter what happens, no matter what the cost, one of us must survive."



</flavor text>

Okay, so back in 1999, there was this little game called Requiem: Avenging Angel. It didn't exactly set the bar, but it was a piece of work, merging traditional FPS gameplay with angelic powers like fire, locusts, flying around, so on and so forth; unlike other religion-themed games, it didn't preach or teach, it merely provided a setting that allowed the player to kick some demon arse. It had beautiful animations, some truly clever touches... unfortunately, between the inability to mod and a little game called Half-Life, it's fallen by the wayside. Still a personal favorite of mine.

I would love to see a Requiem-themed mod. Note the "themed" part of that sentence - I don't want to recreate Requiem. For the folks at home, R:AA involved an angel travelling to earth to kick some fallen angel arse, plus a bunch of demon arses. I think we can do better than that. As you may have gathered, I'm restructuring scripture to suit my needs, casting the player as a fallen member of a very exclusive club. S--t goes down, they're dragged back in, and guess who ends up on the edge of armageddon?

There are other things I'm not going to get into on a public thread, just in case this garners enough interest to actually take off, but I will say this - it won't involve merely kicking satanic butt. Things go deeper than just simply Good vs. Evil. For now, if you're interested, http://www.firingsquad.com/games/requiem/page4.asp (and onwards) has a pretty good breakdown of the sort of weapons and powers to be implemented - though some powers will be adapted or removed entirely, depending on engine limitations. Mappers are going to have to deal with urban and indoors environments, as well as (eventually) the warzone Golgotha and Purgatory, the divide between heaven and hell.

Finally, I'd also like to say that this is intended to be entertainment, not a religious pamphlet. While I invite constructive criticism and suggestions on how to further implement the Judeo-Christian setting, please - leave your baggage at the forum login. This is just a mod. And, because I have no skills of my own, I need everybody.

First on the list are concept artists and writers, I need someone who can take both ideas from Requiem and my descriptions and create cohesive visuals for a team to refer to... but the list is long - if you have other talents, by all means, get in touch!
 
Well, I enjoy this sort of setting, with an alternative spin. Have you read Crimson? Its a comic book series, staring a vampire, a fallen angel, and vampire hunter as well as the father and mother of all vampires and a slew of angels ready to give justice to humans. Anyways, I really enjoyed that setting, and if you have read it, it kinda moves alot like your description just different terms, and somewhat different settings.

You have to make sure if you are going to use source material from an existing game, that you make sure you arent breaking any copyright laws, its a touchy subject, and using the name can be a problem.

On the note of you having no skills, thats not a good thing for people wanting to join a team, I recommend you read this (http://www.halflife2.net/article_wotm.php) to see what Im talking about.

Good luck, but beware people like to rant and rave about whatever here, so dont get upset if people start saying bad things. :P
 
bleah religious twoddle, the passion meets the matrix, in space! angel's with weapons


It's also alas another case of "I have an idea, will you do it for me".

I played the original way back when. And this has a danger of becoming the same, a few paragraphs of text passing as the story, and the game just being a substandard shoot-em-up, granted turning people to salt had its novelty but the game was still pretty poor

and just to correct chapel, we don't rant and rave for the sake of it, we're just honest, and unlike him, other mod teams appreciate that honesty, you wont learn anything from a bunch of yes men just saying its a good mod cause they don't want to hurt your feelings

Also as mentioned, with you having a lack of talents yourself, it will put many off and people will think its just one of the many (and there are many) people who have some idea one day then expects a load of others to do it for them. Sorry if this is all very harsh but I wont lie to you, and I honestly would love you to come back one day with a completed mod that impresses everybody and completely prove me wrong and make my comments look stupid.
 
I like the idea. It sounds good on paper, as it were. I'd strongly suggest that you learn some modding skills yourself before embarking upon it.
 
PiMuRho said:
I like the idea. It sounds good on paper, as it were. I'd strongly suggest that you learn some modding skills yourself before embarking upon it.
I second PiMuRho's view, theres something about righteous fire :)
 
Whew! All right, in order...

chapel: Nope, never read Crimson. I'm not going to be mixing genres, as it were - no werewolves or vampires or what have you. Believe me, I'll be making every effort to keep it original... which is a large part of the reason I'm looking for writers as well as artists. The more perspectives and sources of inspiration, the better.

chapel: Copyright is a concern; while the original company was 3DO Interactive (do they even still exist?), I think it got picked up in some way by Ubi... at least, there's a few placeholder pages kicking around under their name. The direction I'm taking is seriously far from where R:AA was, but since I'm hoping to resurrect elements like the triple-barrelled shotgun (woo) one of the steps I have planned is to try and track down the current holder of the license to see if they have objections. I haven't done so yet, only because I did a quick search and could see no plans to actually touch it in any way (and I don't plan on following the setting - more of a prequel, if you feel compelled to justify the timelines).

chapel, fenric, pimurho: Believe me, I'm aware. Having no skills isn't something I'm all that proud of. I've tried mapping, and modelling, and scripting, and what it comes down to is... I just can't figure it out. I've got all the toys but no idea what to do, or how to go about it. What I do have is the ability to write and envision, and the knowledge that there are people out there who could whip up a fully-functioning weapon mod in the time it takes me to write this post. That's the point of a mod team - to bring together several experts in different areas, pooling talents and resources to create a cohesive group capable of getting the damn thing done.

On the other hand, I do understand and accept that it'll put many people off. That's not something I can help, and to be honest, it's not something I'm really going to argue. I'm useless - I know it. All I can do is try to work around that.

fenric: There's the possibility, of course. (Though it will have nothing to do with space, nor with the Matrix.) Half-Life 2 has that same possibility, any game/mod does. All I can say is - I have every intention of avoiding that trap. There's no point in having nifty angelic powers if you've got only a mundane setting in which to use them.
 
I think you have a great attitude Veavitdpoh. So many people become defensive as soon as any critism is given. You on the other hand remain modest, tell it how it is, and adress all the concerns. My hat's off to you for a classy attitude and a lot of honesty. I truly hope you can see your project to completion. Cheers.
 
Neutrino said:
I think you have a great attitude Veavitdpoh. So many people become defensive as soon as any critism is given. You on the other hand remain modest, tell it how it is, and adress all the concerns. My hat's off to you for a classy attitude and a lot of honesty. I truly hope you can see your project to completion. Cheers.

I must admit I was impressed with his attitude aswell, takes on board what we say, realises we're not "picking on him", could go far :)
 
Fenric said:
...and just to correct chapel, we don't rant and rave for the sake of it, we're just honest, and unlike him, other mod teams appreciate that honesty, you wont learn anything from a bunch of yes men just saying its a good mod cause they don't want to hurt your feelings...

Did I ever say I dont like the truth, did I ever be a yes man, no sir! :P

But seriously, I know you guys are giving complete and real criticism's, I was just warning him, as you know, most people freak out. I like being helpful.

BTW, I didnt yes man him, and most people dont in this forum. If you guys were to criticize my mod, I would take it in stride, fenric, remember we talked in great lengths about both our mods. :P

Anyways, good luck to everyone.
 
Oh, and before I forget...

You can all f---ing die and go to hell! This is an AWESOME MOD!!11 J00 SAMPF4GS WISH YOU WERE AS KEWL AS ME!!!11one

Pfft, nah. Why would I post if I weren't looking for criticism? The way I look at it, y'all are moderators and long-standing members of the forum - you've seen 'em come and go. Even tongue-in-cheek advice is worth taking into account, and these are legitimate concerns you're bringing up... I'd be an idiot if I blew off your advice just because it wasn't along the lines of 'why, yes, I know half a dozen people who would love to drop everything they're doing and follow your half-assed design document just on your good word alone, Mr. One-Post Wonder!' }:D

Thanks for the kudos and the well-wishes... cross fingers, smile and nod.
 
Veavitdpoh said:
You can all f---ing die and go to hell! This is an AWESOME MOD!!11 J00 SAMPF4GS WISH YOU WERE AS KEWL AS ME!!!11one

Pfft, nah. Why would I post if I weren't looking for criticism? The way I look at it, y'all are moderators and long-standing members of the forum - you've seen 'em come and go. Even tongue-in-cheek advice is worth taking into account, and these are legitimate concerns you're bringing up... I'd be an idiot if I blew off your advice just because it wasn't along the lines of 'why, yes, I know half a dozen people who would love to drop everything they're doing and follow your half-assed design document just on your good word alone, Mr. One-Post Wonder!' }:D

Thanks for the kudos and the well-wishes... cross fingers, smile and nod.

Well put, and funny enough, I have seen people react like that at times, maybe not on here, but on chat and what not. Im glad you understand it as advice, I might have a way for you to get some experience modding. PM me if you are interested.
 
He coulda just said he wants you to help him, but he wanted to sound mysterious to try avoid the all seeing eye of the mod bashers ;) j/k
 
Yeah, I have to agree, you take this well.

I, on the other hand, cried my eyes out for hours when Pi said this
 
Fenric said:
He coulda just said he wants you to help him, but he wanted to sound mysterious to try avoid the all seeing eye of the mod bashers ;) j/k

Well, actually, I was going to tell him about our mini-mod as we are welcoming people to help that arent on the team. So they might learn how to mod, and get some experience. I didnt want to totally highjack the thread, but I guess that has taken place already. Anyways, pm me on here, my icq doesnt work anymore, dont know why, and I am not always online, ie dial up.
 
Aww, shucks, now I'm blushing... it's no big deal, really, just a matter of realistic expectations. I'm putting out a blind call for people to help with an unfinished concept, admitting up-front that they would be at least under the partial direction of an inexperienced, unskilled visionary. Trust me, I would've been shocked if anyone had jumped on board right off the bat. Right now I'm just in the first stages of getting things pulled together, working on a full .plan and seeing if I can garner enough interest to get feedback with the concept itself. To that end, I think I've succeeded one hundred percent, as I'm sure at least some of you who have posted would be willing to at least look at the design document and offer further constructive criticism... for right now, that's more than enough.

As for chapel's offer - sure, he's just asking for help with a mod/minimod. I've no objection, believe me. Any experience in the process is welcomed, not only because it'll help my credibility but also because I really do want to develop skills. I just can't manage on my own, for whatever reason. So even if it's nothing more than 'hey, look at this, what do you think', that's still a glimpse at the process, still a look at what a functional modding effort involves. That's solid gold, that is.

And as for hijacking the thread? Considering that I was looking for artists and writers to help out with this Requiem doohickey, I think that happened about ten posts ago, so don't worry about it. }:D
 
Heh, once again, Veavitdpoh responds well :)

I salute you sir, and wish you the best of luck. But I do admit, without any experience in the modding process, your project will likely fail. So I strongly recommend that you hop on ND for a while and get that experience :)
 
ComradeBadger said:
Heh, once again, Veavitdpoh responds well :)

I salute you sir, and wish you the best of luck. But I do admit, without any experience in the modding process, your project will likely fail. So I strongly recommend that you hop on ND for a while and get that experience :)

Well, remember, Im not asking him to work for ND, really Im offering him what is available to everyone else, the chance to work on an open minimodification that will help garner skills for people lacking such. As well it will be used for my team to work with the new tools, and get used to working with each other. BTW, look for an update about the minimod soon, ie a new name and details.
 
Just wanted to say that I love this kind of setting, and good luck :)
 
Speaking of which...

I'm not sure if you can have spoilers for a game that doesn't exist, but if so, this is the beta .plan and it blows the whole story from beginning to end, sooo... spoileriffic. Thou hath been warned.
 
looks pretty good, but seriously...

"And, because I have no skills of my own, I need everybody."

Some dev skills will help you tenfold. Don't have to be good at anything, just understand how things work. Me for example, I know how to use worldcraft, and how to make a kick-ass map, but lack the skills to actually do it. This way I can understand any problems my mappers have. Same goes for modelling, 2D art, and all the rest.

Go for it though, looks like it could be a winner. Not a fan of religion at all, I won't bore you with my propoganda :D, but in a fantasy setting it can be very powerful. Used in the right way, it can be a great immersion tool. Good luck :)
 
gameplay: This seems to be the big selling point (or lack thereof), so I'll address this first. The other stuff, in some semblance of order.

What did everyone love about Half-Life? It was extremely immersive. It presented a complete world, not isolated levels and incidents. At the same time, with a minimum of effort, it offered both action-oriented gameplay and a compelling set of events. Oh, and Barney.

That's basically my goal with Requiem. I'm not going to try and turn an action game into a RTS, or an adventure game... this is all technically beyond my abilities, but that would be ridiculously beyond them. The key points I want to hit are:

1) Action. It's an action game. People get shot in the face.
2) Immersion. A setting that draws you in, giving an interesting context for shooting people in the face.
3) Storyline. A series of events that makes you want to keep playing, finding out whose face you will be shooting next.
4) Magic. Firearms are so overrated, I swear, I would love to just work the psionics angle and keep the player unarmed the entire game. Of course... if that sounds more interesting, the Requiem idea isn't set in stone... hmm.

---

edity stuff: That's why I use Notepad first. }:D

formatting: Things are a little disjointed, I agree and apologize. My method of categorization and summation was, in essence, "pull it out of my ass"... I didn't have a real strategy at the time, other than trying to put down in text all the major elements I had swimming through my skull.

Vorkosigan: Maaayyyybe... heh, I am a big fan. I actually hadn't been thinking about it at the time; the plasma arc is basically unrelated to that weapon, and the hypospray is just a way to keep the process of injection from taking up valuable time.

storyline: It is pretty basic, agreed. While there's more to be fleshed out - I'd love to try and work in more about Talsy's manipulations, and maybe flashbacks to the original sin that caused the lapse in faith - that's why I was hoping to get more writers on board. I've only one perspective, after all.

weapons: This is in part intentional. The minigun, for instance, shows up for the Gatling duel, and you never find more ammunition for it. The plasma arc is pretty much a melee weapon, as opposed to the CSG which just has lousy accuracy. They've all got their roles, especially because I intend to incorporate weapon-swapping (c.f. Far Cry). You're probably right in that I've got too many, though... hmm. The AR and LMG are rather interchangeable. I may actually drop the rocket launcher, just to try and avoid the subject of gibbing - you wouldn't find much ammo for it anyway. *hehs* It's instinct, y'know, you discuss an FPS and you have to throw in a rocket launcher...

divine: Interesting... I hadn't really thought of branching choices, in part because I'm going for a Half-Life flow - with as little metagame as possible to get in the way. Choosing powers from a menu would break up the gameplay, and hamper level design (insofar as you couldn't expect the player to have certain powers at certain points). I wonder if there's some way to make unconscious decisions impact the powers received, like if you save a lot of innocents you get power X, if you have a tendency to kill everything in sight you get power Y...

virtues/sins: At this point, I don't plan on turning these into major gameplay elements - really just flavor/background. The various characters will represent them in some way, but deliberately choosing not to pick up the cinnamon buns won't weaken Gluttony, f'rinstance.

FAQ: Well, no one had asked any questions yet. }:D

To Salt: To explain - To Salt is this great power. http://www.firingsquad.com/games/requiem/images/power_tosalt.jpg - you make the magic motion, and your victim freezes and literally blows away in the wind part by part. Not having a thorough grasp of what can and can't be done with special effects, I may be wrong, but Requiem had a homegrown engine for a reason.

Possess: Possess is like the Prophecy thing, freeing your spirit, but it allowed the player to temporarily possess an enemy; while in their body, you were immortal, and as long as you didn't attack their buddies, they'd still consider you an ally. This probably could be put in, but I wasn't quite sure about giving players the ability to basically teleport into other areas.

religion: To be honest, I'm not a fan myself, but it's got some great stories to be told. I'm going to do what I can to make it authentic (or at least feel that way), but this isn't going to be a tool of recruitment by any means... no propaganda on this end either, in other words.

---

...now you've got me thinking about a psionics mod. How to implement that without using the rather overused escaped-victim-of-experimentation angle... hmm...
 
Additional: the more I think about it, that would rule. The problem is in justifying it with the current storyline. If he starts with powers, that contradicts the idea that he's set aside the divine lifestyle - and if he doesn't start with powers, the early levels will be a bitch...

Then again, if I understand correctly, word is that gameplay comes first and details like just where the game takes you comes second...?
 
It's usually easier in the long run to set down a core type of gameplay that works (and is fun/original) and build a story around it than to try to adapt a story into game form (take games based on movies/comics/cartoons, for example). It may be hard for some people to think like that but it yeilds good results.

You don't have to have the gameplay 100% set in stone before you start on the story but having a solid foundation to start building on will keep you from making horrible gameplay choices for the sake of telling your original story. Also, when you start with an elaborate story some parts probably won't work with the kind of game you want to make... and when you change those you might have to end up rewriting a large chunk of the story to make it fit the gameplay mechanics you decided on after you wrote it.
 
*having mulled it overnight*

From a gameplay standpoint, then. How does this sound?

The player will have access to minimal or no material weapons, while his adversaries will be either well-versed in hand-to-hand combat (by which I mean biting, slashing, chomping, stomping, jiujitsu, nunchaku, or whatever) or well-armed with firearms and other ranged weapons. On the other hand, the player has the distinct advantage of being able to utilize naturally regenerating powers, some of which mimic the properties of weapons, others of which are thoroughly unique within the FPS world - such as the ability to possess the bodies of your foes and ride them through enemy checkpoints. Gameplay will consist of creatively using and combining these powers to overcome environmental hazards and armed opponents, either directly or indirectly.

In more direct terms, this means that the focus won't be resource-gathering - no need to rummage around hunting down weapons and ammo, 'cos you won't be able to use 'em. The only point you'll use a weapon is if you happen to ride the body of someone wielding one. Your powers are all you get, and in theory all you'll need; the forces you face will be deadly and swift, requiring skill and caution to overcome as well as divine powers.

(As you may surmise from that last, I'm still looking at the same design concepts. But I'm dropping weapons and the concentration will be on the powers - they're the real draw of the game anyway.)
 
mmm...if you stil have a place for writers, I might be interested Veavitpoh.

works attached and link to NSO work below.

http://www.neoshockmod.net/renaissance1.php - Part 2 is ready, being currently edited.

I'm working for Nuclear Dreams too, but all I've done for them is TOP SECRET so far...
 
The War Continues

background: It would, yes... a foundation of authenticity always adds to any experience, and I actually do have plans to research further than what I've done so far (apart from the virtues/sins, it was basically off the top of my head) - especially for names. While I'm open to suggestions on ways to accomplish this, a truly dedicated religious background would actually be antithetical to the sort of storyline I'd like. In its natural state, it's very much a black-and-white state of affairs, Good vs. Evil - no middle ground, ever. I'm a big believer in relativity, which means to use religion (at least the Christian ethos) requires straying from that same inspiration. So, to sum up... I'm not sure how to make everything fit without sinking into a straightforward GvE setting.

weapons: I actually thought of a workaround for this. It relates back to the whole minigun issue, which I want to include because one of my favorite lines from Snow Crash is "Hold on, I think I just got into a gatling duel". With my current gameplay concept, of course, weapons are verboten - and how can you justify being able to use emplacements if you can't pick up a regular gun? But one of the powers I plan on including is telekinesis, basically. So I ended up with the idea that along with throwing things around, TK can also be used on weapons, either dropped by fallen enemies or emplacements. When you do, it rises up and aims in the direction you're facing, effectively becoming a turret weapon in its own right. You can't reload, which will prevent players from hoarding weapons and ammo - once it runs out, it's a paperweight - but this allows for the use of firearms as well as god powers without requiring all those mucky POV models.

tech trees: Mmm, maybe. Option 2 has the problem of ending up one-dimensional rather than encouraging the diverse use of powers... of course, there's no way to force players to use all the powers without making critters immune to all but one aspect, which seems rather railroadish to me. Maybe half-and-half, where players start out with the same powers, but those powers improve and spawn new ones based on usage? Ugh, but then that penalizes players who play it safe instead of throwing around their divine heritage like it's going out of style.

Option 1 has the problem of fitting said virtue into the gameplay somehow, not to mention making the storyline fiddly to include - yes, I know, gameplay first and storyline second, I actually agree. But in terms of the gameplay itself, I'm at a loss to work out how a player would exemplify the attributes of their chosen virtue in any way other than "you get this power, go forth and rock".

It's possible the virtues themselves may not be an appropriate structure on which to base god powers. They could be a part of the storyline/gameplay, but the player may be something else - some form of archangel, and choosing the caste guides the power tree...

balance: I like where you're going with this, but if the player is allowed some weapons, they should be allowed all weapons. That means I'm limited in what enemies can carry, or have to make their weapons integral in some way. Actually, I may have just answered my own question. If enemies have a tendency to be linked to their weapons somehow - which is appropriate in a higher-tech setting - they won't drop them and the player can't take them or use them.

potential: Do you think so? There's a thin line there... a lot of "low-resource" games can quickly become frustrating as a player gets trapped in an area and just can't find more ammo/health/nanites/gemstones to get themselves out. Of course, the regeneration aspect may help alleviate that.

I do like the idea of being able to spring combos with powers and weapons, c.f. the mental image of pushing an enemy into the air, slowing time down, pounding a shell into each of his buddies and then a third into him as he hits the floor. Maybe that improvement-through-usage is the way to encourage the use of powers over firearms, esp. with limited ammunition.

So what do we really need in terms of player-enabled weapons? A melee weapon, methinks. Then let's skip the pistol step and just go straight to combat shotgun, followed by assault rifle, followed by impact cannon (railgun/rocket launcher), all vaguely futuristic and all meaty. The melee weapon could be some sort of heavy blade, related to the player's role... does this sound more in line with what I'm trying to head towards?

OCybr: Thanks for cutting things down to size, by the way. Like I said, do understand where people are coming from - I can think of half a dozen games off the top of my head with what was undoubtedly a wonderful story, but had lousy enough gameplay I couldn't wade far enough in to find out. I've just got these storyteller reflexes, I'm afraid. }:D

Sprafa: Of course! Right now, as you can see, I'm in the process of figuring out exactly where this should go, and as a result the story is almost certainly going to be changing right along with the design specs. But keep an eye on things, I am going to be looking for people to work with me and twist things further than I could on my own.
 
*just thought of something... dratted 15 min editing deadline*

Why futuristic? 1920s. Weapons: revolver, double-barrelled, Thompson. This is getting into Cthulhu territory... hey, any Lovecraft mods in the works?

...I should go to sleep now.
 
There's a Cthulu game in the works, so forget that idea :)
 
Okay, some good ideas are flying.

<weapons>
What I see for weapons are two options, a full weapon use system like alot of other games, or a pure melee/power based mode. What I think needs to be decided before if guns will be used for the player, is who is the player going to be fighting, and for how long. How tough will they be, and how often will you fight them. That will give you a better answer than just trying to decide before hand. On that note, if you are going to be fighting just humans, weapons are usefull, but you are an arkangel, a divine being and have powers for a reason. If you are going against evil demons and stuff, then well guns could be usefull as well but more will be divine powers. Blah, just some ideas.

Another option would be to use melee weapons as a holy item and channel them for heightened powers.

I will comment more later, too early in the morning for me.
 
lots of good ideas, but I think as a designer you need to realize your technical limitations and your resources. First of all, I think its time you finalize your core concepts by yourself, and create a sort of mission statement. I like your perspective on immersive gaming and those general goals, but you should break it down and state explicitly the gameplay factors that you intend to implement which would contribute to those goals.

About your ideas. As I said I really like them, but immersion is achieved by two things: depth and finesse. As a modder, this is extremely hard to achieve, especially if you have to put the entire team together and you have no background experience in management. My suggestion to you is to first do a project on a smaller scale, for instance take your RTS ideas and make a simple first-person based command game that takes full advantage of the engine. Once you use your theme with a limited story and more gameplay mechanics, you can easily take it to the next step.
 
weaponish: I eventually managed to break down the enemy presence into five categories... infernal (demons and hellspawn), celestial (angels and ethereals - even if you won't be fighting them most of the time, they're still present and are going to need to be coded), mundane (humans, automated security systems, maybe attack dogs), undead (zombies that want your braaaaains) and crossbreeds (long story short, think deep ones).

This rather implies it'll be lousy with adversaries, but I don't think that'll be the case. Most enemies are going to be powerful, making encounters challenging if you don't pick and choose your fights. The other part of it is that enemies are going to be varied, and call for a variety of tactics and methods of disposal - which is why I'm not ready to entirely abandon the idea of secular weapons quite yet. If nothing else, they'll be a handy fallback position if Focus runs out.

projects: This is actually the direction I'm headed towards, thanks to some off-board help from chapel. I'll get a thorough handle on just what a mod involves, even if it's Hello World for Half-Life 2, before pursuing this on a more material basis... am I giving up? By no means! But I am trying to be realistic about how to go about this, and the one thing everyone agrees on is "oi, you, get some skills first". So it looks like it's time for my annual attempt at actually learning something.
 
So, my offer is simply overpassed?

I saw potential (and still do) in both the mod leader and the mod itself.
 
Sprafa said:
So, my offer is simply overpassed?

I saw potential (and still do) in both the mod leader and the mod itself.

But what about ND?

Sprafa, dont worry about it, I think he knows that he needs to do some core things with himself and his ideas before he accepts any team members. Why dont you pm him or catch him on icq.
 
pendragon: Well, 'sup to you either way - I don't mind continuing to go over the core concepts, they'll certainly come in handy. But for right now, I've got the unenviable task of realizing I don't meet the hardware requirements for the bloody editor (1280 min res, my monitor maxes at 1024)...

sprafa: Your offer isn't overpassed, it is appreciated and will very likely be accepted in the future. I still see potential in the mod too! But the one thing everyone's saying is "you need skills, even if you're not the modeller you need to understand where the modeller is coming from". So right now I'm working on that aspect, seeing if I can build a demonstratable knowledge of what mods require. I will very much need writers, but as of this precise moment in time... until the metagame gets hammered out, I don't want to waste your time with effort and inspiration that may ultimately end up unused.

chapel: Pretty much, yep. I'd love to be able to change the topic of this thread to something along the lines of "Requiem: recruiting wholesale opinions". }:D
 
Veavitdpoh said:
I'd love to be able to change the topic of this thread to something along the lines of "Requiem: recruiting wholesale opinions". }:D

Consider it done :)
 
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