Restoring Full HL2DM Physics?

[FrancoC]

Hi,

Was just wondering if there is a way to give HL2DM full HL2 physics? People who have multiplayed the original HL2 know that it's perfectly possible to have the full physics in multiplayer, and provided that the connection is fast enough then there is no lag and you can enjoy full physics (especially good fun over LAN).

I think Valve should incorporate such an option into HL2DM, a check box where the full physics can be activated so that we can choose between retarded physics and normal physics, depending on our connection.

Does anyone know what is the best email to contact Valve at? And I will request this feature if they listen.

Cheers Gents!

 

[jimmyjam]

what's the difference? throwing pieces of broken box?

 

[FrancoC]

No, the difference is:-

-The proper physics don't allow you to use the gravity gun to put one object inside another.

- The proper physics don't have a strange wobbly/rubber/bounce effect when you stack objects or such (this one is really really really annoying), try and stack some things and you will find out.

- The proper physics are sharper, more accurate, all around better.

Damn, if anyone has played HL2DM and HL2 you must've noticed the massive decrease in the quality of the physics right? For this reason I've been using the old HL2 multiplayer console method (even though there are no models etc)

 

[Doppelgofer]

there will be a technical reason why the physics are as they are...they probably work ......better.....in the hl2 crappy menu dm as theres no details to load. i PERSONALLY think the physics are nearly exactly the same and are brilliant

 

[SonicTitan]

The deathmatch is so frantic that I've never really noticed the substandard physics. I'll take your word for it that this is the case, but when are you really going to find the time to carefully stack up objects when there are another 10 guys trying to knock your head off with a toilet? There's a gravgun and enough things per level to throw at people. That's enough for me.

 

[FrancoC]

The technical reason is obvious - to reduce bandwidth. What I mentioned in my first post is that some people have super fast LAN networks, 100mbit, 1000mbit, and that these people have the power to support full on 100% physics (because it works in HL2 with the console multi method and its far more fun).

The HL2DM physics are not better and they don't work exactly the same, read my previous post. HL2DM physics are retarded (similar to, but not as bad as the CS:S physics) and there should be an option to activate full on physics for high end users.

 

[FrancoC]

SonicTitan, loads of people love to build. Have you tried the PropShop map? It's a classic, mainly designed for people to stack and build, exploiting the physics engine.

 

[Apos]

Er, the physics in HL2DM are NOTHING like in CS:S, sorry.

 

[SonicTitan]

Nope I was not aware of this emerging culture for engineering. See what happens I've only been away from hl2dm for a day and already there's new maps and game concepts. That's pretty cool. Alas a deathmatch for me will always be just that, a match of death. Maybe valve will release a patch with support for this feature soon.

 

[FrancoC]

Hopefully you are right SonicTitan. What's the best way to contact Valve about this to enquire, do you know?

And should you have a go at "engineering", then I'm sure you'll get addicted, especially if you have a LAN.

Apos - A bit extreme, but you know what I am getting at. That bouncy/rubbery effect they have put on physics objects. Not sure how to descrive it, but I really hate it.

 

[[Matt]]

Unfortunately full physics would require server CPU power that not even a dual Xeon server could produce...

 

[NiteX]

The physics seem perfectly fine for me. Sure they seem laggy and what not but its multiplayer what do you expect? And I hate the physics on CS:S you run into a barrel and you bounce back, the barrel barely moves.

 

[Sui]

HL2DM are exactly the same as HL2, and any minnor changes are insignificant.

 

[pixartist]

Unfortunately full physics would require server CPU power that not even a dual Xeon server could produce...

lol, the physics would not be a processor problem but a bandwidth problem...

 

[TheCorps]

lol, the physics would not be a processor problem but a bandwidth problem...

So the bandwidth calculates all the physics?? I think not.

 

[Cole]

There are only minor changes in the physics. Think of it like this?
You want CS:S PHYSICS.
OR THE PHYSICS YOU HAVE NOW.
Trust me, the physics are good nuff. I mean there is such a little diffrence between HL2 and HL2DM physics, that I can barley notice it have the time when every 5 seconds im throwing shit at people.

 

[FrancoC]

"HL2DM are exactly the same as HL2, and any minnor changes are insignificant."

This statement is plain bullsh*t. Nice observations you don't have! Notice how every five seconds you pick something up with the phys cannon and it puts one object INSIDE another!?!

"Unfortunately full physics would require server CPU power that not even a dual Xeon server could produce..."

pixartist is absolutely right. It's nothing but a bandwidth issue, people who have tried the HL2 in multiplayer know that it's possible and works perfect over LAN!!! Dual Xeon LOL that's a good one!

So lets get this straight. IT DOES WORK IN HL2, there's no debating that! Full physics over LAN is 100% possible! All I'm saying is, lets have the OPTION in there for us high bandwidth users!!

"You want CS:S PHYSICS.
OR THE PHYSICS YOU HAVE NOW.
Trust me, the physics are good nuff."

I don't want either. And No, I don't trust you, the physics are not good enough, YET.

 

[pixartist]

So the bandwidth calculates all the physics?? I think not.

omg THINK, PLEASE THINK!

-> when you play SP your processor calculates the FULL physics, so why should the server processor fail doing so?
-> bandwidth is needed to TRANSFER data about SERVER side physics objects

----> BANDWIDTH is the limitation, NOT the server processing power

 

[The Dark Elf]

HL2DM physics are fine, should be left as is, they do the job and they aren't anything like CS:S.

 

[FrancoC]

Dark Elf, we're dealing with 2 different scenarios.

Internet:-
Limited bandwidth, I agree, HL2DM physics are totally fine here!

LAN:-
Infinitely more bandwitch, lets have the OPTION available for these LAN players so they can fully exploit the source engine. (Like I keep saying, it works in HL2 and it's great fun having all the "bells and whistles").

I can't imagine it's much work at all for Valve to include this simple option and the benefits for LAN players totally justify the implementation.

 

[SubKamran]

there will be a technical reason why the physics are as they are...they probably work ......better.....in the hl2 crappy menu dm as theres no details to load. i PERSONALLY think the physics are nearly exactly the same and are brilliant

Yah, I didn't know there was a difference

 

[FrancoC]

HEHE, Really makes me laugh at what limited observation skills some people on these boards must have.

(ps. If you're disabled either mentally or physically then I take back that comment).

 

[[Matt]]

lol, the physics would not be a processor problem but a bandwidth problem...

May seem stupid to you but its not. bandwidth issues tend to be the primary reason in other games for lag within a game but you forget that the physics code and netcode have to work in together in a source multiplayer game. The more accurate the physics calculations are then the harder the netcode has to work to feed the network with information. You may well have the fastest connection in the world for the server but if the CPU cannot keep up then you can forget it. With full Physics code accuracy the strain placed on the netcode means that the server needs more CPU power than even modern high end CPU's cannot cope with.

 

[Apos]

Notice how every five seconds you pick something up with the phys cannon and it puts one object INSIDE another!?!

No.

So lets get this straight. IT DOES WORK IN HL2, there's no debating that! Full physics over LAN is 100% possible! All I'm saying is, lets have the OPTION in there for us high bandwidth users!!

I don't have a clue what you mean by "full physics" and I suspect neither do you. You are just playing on lousy servers.

 

[SonicTitan]

This statement is plain bullsh*t. Nice observations you don't have! Notice how every five seconds you pick something up with the phys cannon and it puts one object INSIDE another!?!QUOTE]

Also no, but I think I might be mentally impaired. :rolling:

Edit: Duh... I can't get quotes to work. This could be evidence of mental impairment.

 

[pixartist]

May seem stupid to you but its not. bandwidth issues tend to be the primary reason in other games for lag within a game but you forget that the physics code and netcode have to work in together in a source multiplayer game. The more accurate the physics calculations are then the harder the netcode has to work to feed the network with information. You may well have the fastest connection in the world for the server but if the CPU cannot keep up then you can forget it. With full Physics code accuracy the strain placed on the netcode means that the server needs more CPU power than even modern high end CPU's cannot cope with.

LOL, come on!

are you stupid? didn't you read my post?
YOUR HOME PC COULD CALCULATE ALL THE PHYSICS DATA IN THE MAP DAMN IT! EVERY server can handle the physics processor wise, but not BANDWIDTH wise...the bandwidth is limited at the client AND server. when the processor calculates the physics data (exactly as your home pc does when you play singleplayer or when you create a DM server) this data has to be transfered to the clients and all interactive actions by the clients have to be transfered to the server...the more accurate the physics are, the more data is calculated serverside and transfered -> LAG

got it? why should a server not be abled to handle the physics system? WHY?

 

[FrancoC]

LOL Pixartist you are spot on, thanks for trying to explain to some of the idiots around here who don't know anything about computer science!

Besides Pixartist's explanation can I also point out once again THAT IT WORKS IN HALFLIFE 2 ALREADY!!!! (AND I DONT HAVE A PC THAT WAS TELEPORTED IN TO EARTH FROM OUTER SPACE, JUST A 2GHZ ATHLON!!!)

Why do some morons keep out making you need a god-like computer to cope with the physics in multiplyer? It's nothing but a bandwidth issue, 10mbit LAN can handle it FINE!

 

[Cole]

Pix i can go into singleplayer and yes my cpu calculates all those physics. If I go on mp and play with 19 other people well the server has to calculate 20x more physics than my cpu. I'm not saying the server can't handle it. (Though not every server has a super nice cpu).

I'm simply saying that, the need for 100% accurating physics is simply not needed.

god-like computer to cope with the physics in multiplyer

Not saying im pushing for the bandwidth people but in the multiplayer you are calculatuing less physics than in singleplayer. As the server calculates most of the multiplayer physics. Thus with 19 other people(including you) the server has to do 20x more work than singleplayer.

I mean c'mon ARE YOU REALLY THAT PICKY. No other game even comes close to how well the physics are pushed in HL2. And all you want is more and more. You should email gabe or a valve employ to add a feature in which over LAN full physics and be enabled. You shouldn't just make an argument. So will someone just email this feature to valve?

I think it can be a cpu limitation IF the server does not have that good of a processor. I also think that it is probably a bandwidth limitation, and would create extra lag. So they decided

Employ 1-"Hey, we can barley reduce the physics, thus there wont be a huge diffrence and it wont lag like a bitch!"
Employ 2-"Thats a good idea! I will go tell the other programmers right now!"

 

[FrancoC]

Excellent idea Minerel, you are right. Let's stop arguing and just email Valve the suggestion so that fussy Lan users such as myself are happy.

Now, does anyone know which email is best to contact Valve with in order to get things done?