Reuters: Freed Italian Hostage Says Iraq Rebels 'Justified'

[K e r b e r o s]

If I'm not mistaken, kerboros is arguing that the Italians were treated badly, but they are somehow greatful because they survived.

Also, this has'nt been my point. You are mistaken, so let me correct you. I'm argueing that their conditions were standard, and that being that, is good for what you can get.

It was'nt anything special, and infact, its the way they've treated other people before their killed. Its how that British guy remarked on the videotape, before the other two Americans next to him were beheaded.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Ofcourse, the Italians are psychos because they are supporting the resistance, yea ya ... that's a good way to explain it "OMG! TEHY ARE TEH PSYCHOOS!".

You know whats so odd about this accusation? I never made it.
If you scroll up and read, that is.

just give me one example of an iraqi with SS? why don't you see them? cuz they don't exist.

Once your done copying my points and putting them into yours, I might give you credit for doing something "Special" in this debate.

Oh, they do exist. Its just funny how you never brought it up to begin with. But thats because a few hours ago, nobody was discussing Stockholmes.

You disgust me

Murder tops the charts, and how you get there happens to contribute also. The tortured men lived, and are getting their justice. Its low on the bad ethics department, because the men lived, and their tortures were'nt "Vietnam Violent".

Whats even better, is the people that did the tortures were'nt even from the US Army. They were hired as contractors from normal US Prisons. Scary thing to think about, aint it?

I see, you don't have enough time, that's why you got such a long reply.
Why'd you bother to post if you haven't even read them?

Because that was the last edit I put into the article. Course, you were'nt around to read it at the moment I posted it, so thats pretty unknown to you.

how would you expect Saddam to treat them? "Welcome my American friends to Iraq, have a nice day!"

Now wait a moment! Lets go back to Abu Ghairb. how would you expect Johny to treat them? "Welcome Iraqi friends to Abu Ghairb, have a nice day!"

What your missing here, is I was pointing out that all armies along with their captors have said bad things about the conditions. Some of it, is even propaganda. A big representation of that is during World War I and World War II.

World War II's example comes out of German Treatment in British Prison systems, where they got all the country could give out for Prisoners, but a couple of German Staff officers did'nt like the idea. Then David Irving got a hold of it.

World War I's example comes out of French Prisoners in German hands, telling lies about digging graves that have'nt even been found yet, while in German captivity.

Some soldiers simply dont like being captured. An even better example is how when British, US, and Canadian officers captured by the Germans, were ordered to sabotage or lie about as much as possible to confuse or hurt the German warmachine. That was during World War II, and viewed as a legitimate tactic.

For your information, There are many cases where they released captives, the crateria is pretty simple

Oh really? Share some links to the number of released captives that overshadows the ones that were killed?

Do you work with invaders or not?

So this also explains the willing sympathies of those Italian Aid Workers. Stockholmes is becoming a classic and evident point in this debate.

Yes there was an american who got released, the lebanese-american guy, he was even a soldier.

You want to why he was released? Because he was mostly Lebonese, and beheading a Lebonese would remove some of their support from links to Lebanon.

You forget were some of these terrorists are actually from. Its even evident European blood does'nt run through his system. He was'nt white, and looked very Arabic.

Key Word here: Associated with America, but does not have American blood.

Numerous people have been released on that criteria. But so far, all the White guys have been beheaded. Most of them have to "look american", for the beheading to get their message accross.

I can find pictures of this guy on the Internet, and his information, if you want to debate his heritage further.

If they find the captive is hepling the occupation, they kill him. It's a war, our enemy takes pows, hell he takes innocent people as pows. You can't tell me the resistance can't take pows.

So I guess if we kill Children in the crossfire, that makes it right? Or the posing of inmates at Abu Ghairb, by your statement, becomes right too?

Look at what you said again, then realize at anytime, if your statement was able to remove the Geneva Convention, or the Hague Convention of 1953, Iraq could be one big crater. Whats even better, is Iraq does'nt even compy to the 1953 Hague article or Geneva.

The difference is, the resistance actually checks on the pow, and if they find they are innocent, they release them. Where as americans just throw iraqis in there and forget them.

Whats so great about this ^ lie, is he cant find a source for it.
Whats even better? Is he just wrote this off the top of his ass.

Yes, you even let them form resistance groups, you see, there wasn't any resistance in saddam's time becuae he didn't let them, but now because of the freedeom we gave them, they could form militias.

Scroll up, I never addressed the lack of resistance during Saddams time. I think those 100,000 people killed under his reigme stand as testiment that their were those that uprose. But were killed.

You cant say otherwise.

maybe I can remidn you how the resistance started: when the amricans shoot protesters in Fallujah who were protesting because the americans took an elementary school and turned it into a military base.

Source...? Because your not ringing any bells here...

 

[hasan]

So I guess if we kill Children in the crossfire, that makes it right? Or the posing of inmates at Abu Ghairb, by your statement, becomes right too?

Wow .. just wow.
Go back to school, opp, I mean, Go back and read the first post, especially the last line of it.

Apparently you don't know what you are talking aobut.

Once your done copying my points and putting them into yours, I might give you credit for doing something "Special" in this debate.

Enlighten me, special man.
why would I quote every single thing you say? plz, I'm desperate to get your credits.

maybe I can remidn you how the resistance started: when the amricans shoot protesters in Fallujah who were protesting because the americans took an elementary school and turned it into a military base.

Source...? Because your not ringing any bells here...

O_O
Oh my God! You really don't know anything, do you?
You really are amazing me.
P.S. I'm looking for links now, I'll post them asap.

edit:
here is on link I found .. more soon
http://eatthestate.org/07-18/IncidentatFallujah.htm

P.S. You really shouldn't debate anything about Iraq if you don't know that incident.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

O_O
Oh my God! You really don't know anything, do you?
You really are amazing me.
P.S. I'm looking for links now, I'll post them asap.

Wait Hasan. If your arguement holds such strength and truth, you'd be able to find it right off the bat!

For example, do a google search on "WWII Holocaust", and you'll find every bit of information from how it started, to how it ended.

Looked up your turth, and your still looking for it.

Wow .. just wow.
Go back to school, opp, I mean, Go back and read the first post, especially the last line of it.

Apparently you don't know what you are talking aobut.

Wow, you really are dumb. Too stupid for words...

I made my comment based on what you said. I obviously read correctly. and made a comment directly to your said criteria.

Enlighten me, special man.

I think your in the process of doing that to me, first. So once you find all the sources I requested, I might be inclined to give this comment a reply.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Alright, I'll give you a hint Hasan. The resistance started in Iraq because...

<drumroll>

Iraq was invaded!

 

[hasan]

I might be inclined to give this comment a reply.

you don't really have to reply .. and I don't really care if you don't.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

you don't really have to reply .. and I don't really care if you don't.

So your quest to the find the sources to prove me wrong has faltered...again. I'm not suprised Hasan. You pulled some pretty white rabbits out of your hat, and now you have no idea where to put them.

Look Hasan, besides the past, I forgot about it and I dont care. But when I debate these things with you, I hope you dont take me as flammey or extreme. I like to debate things with you! Its awesome to have another opinion!

 

[Sparta]

I agree with what Mr Fusion said.

The resistance is justifiable but the kidnapping of innocents isn't.

I feel terrible for everyone in Iraq. The US occupation force and the people of Iraq.

 

[hasan]

So your quest to the find the sources to prove me wrong has faltered...again. I'm not suprised Hasan. You pulled some pretty white rabbits out of your hat, and now you have no idea where to put them.

Look Hasan, besides the past, I forgot about it and I dont care. But when I debate these things with you, I hope you dont take me as flammey or extreme. I like to debate things with you! Its awesome to have another opinion!

Ok, the thing you don't realize is, this is a very known incident. yes finding links is hard because it was form last year and I have no idea how to find it on respected news sites such as reuters or others.
The other problem is, you make alot of mistakes and allegations that I can prove false, but they are so much and if we start picking them one by one we'll shift from the original subject, so I just choose to ignore most of them.
I didn't pull white rabbits, this is your job, remember your deductions that lead you to believe I was CptStern? You're still with the same mentality, unfourtunately.

I don't mind debating you on anythign on Iraq, well you or anyone. I just get tired after a while because no result emerges out of the discussions, and because people keep repeating the same crap over and over as if I havn't written 10 posts already to clearify things. (I'm not talking about this thread .. but this usually happens alot)

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Glad to see you can express yourself, but I still dont believe your deductions are the best. Plus, when I do deduce your opinions, you have nothing or very little to say besides some quirky responses.

Most of your responses come up as Sarcasm to the US, or rant and rave about for some reason the resistance is justified. Its justified because we invaded, but my point is, the attrocities are not.

This applies to the US aswell. Dont think I did'nt hope for justice when the prisoners were abused.

Anyway I'am not insulted by this, I'am just saying Hasan, that it does get repitive when I ask for sources, you dont put up any. So where you get the idea you could prove me wrong, is beyond me, because the sources you say could do that...dont exist.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

This is dumb. The former hostage simply has respect for her captors, and everyone's acting like it's impossible.

The original account already stated that she felt sympathy for the Iraqi cause well before her capture. All the capture did was not change her mind.

And the Iraqis are justified in defending themselves. They don't want to be occupied, and they do not want a forced democracy. They have every right to defend themselves from the people who threaten them.

Look at it this way: Iraq is more justified in defending itself than the US was in attacking them in the first place.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

I think we can say that easily.

But we cannot exactly leave. John Kerry has said that in his debate with George Bush awhile ago. Its also why my votes sliding a little over towards Kerry, because he's adopting some better policies for Iraq and our long term.

I'm not acting like its impossible, for this aid worker to have opinions, but what I'am saying is I hope she does'nt agree with her captors all "Western Civilization needs to be destroyed". Because anything West of the Middle East, thus includes all of Europe, happens to be Western Civilization. Once you cross the atlantic, the US and Canada are next. Thats what the term has always meant, if you knew its time of use.

My bid was when Hasan seemed like he was hinting "attrocities" were justifiable. I explained between the 10,000 Iraqi citizens killed, the WTC incident, and the beheadings, and the tortures THAT is not justifiable. So there is my point about this discussion.