Ritual License Steam and Source for SiN 2

[Kangy]

Hehe, that'll teach them to copy from my EA posts.

Hehe, I thought it was a very interesting tidbit when I first read it, assumed it was true and buggered on off to post this. I read EA most days, I lubs it.

 

[Smigit]

btw, my view on all this is, I admit, biased by the fact that I prefer to buy games digitally than go down the shop to get them. I loved the way HL2 was avalible instantly and I look forward to the day when all games can be bought this way.

I totally understand it. I just feel that perhaps they should do what valvue did and not alienate people by focusing solely on steam sales, but instead use both aka valvue with HL2. Anyway as I said earlier, I wont be suprised if after the last chapter is released the game has had some succes we do see a version in stores.

Spose you'd be interested in what Nintendo has planned for it's revolution game delivery service then hey?

 

[Resvrgam]

I have nothing against purchasing anything online and downloading it to my hard drive (I've been doing this for years). My gripe resides with Steam itself. It's as if we're playing a MMOG everytime we fire up a single-player title. Connecting to an external source in order to play a single-player product is downright hostile toward consumers and jeopardizes the actual product itself.

What happens if Valve goes under (in this volatile industry that's not an improbability)? What will happen to all of these Steam-based games if/when Steam is defunct?
"Sorry, kid. Go buy our Classic-Super-Platinum Edition that has all of the products you already paid for." - no thanks.

HL2 is the first non-MMOG I've purchased in which I've been unable to play the game 'when I want to play it' due to external failures. This is also the last game I'll purchase like this.

If I have to break the law/violate some cryptic EULA with a third-party crack just to be able to use a product I've legitimately purchased, the business model is FUBAR.

 

[kaf11]

steam is awesome, and i hope that the sin episodes do well. this kind of distribution is what will make steam such a success.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Valve[/B] goes under (in this volatile industry that's not an improbability)? What will happen to all of these Steam-based games if/when Steam is defunct?
"Sorry, kid. Go buy our Classic-Super-Platinum Edition that has all of the products you already paid for." - no thanks.

That's when they release the (tiny) patch that disables the requirement for online activation. Even if it's just done by one of the coders from his bedroom.
People are far too quick to seize upon the negative that they seem to miss the stunningly obvious.

 

[Resvrgam]

That's when they release the (tiny) patch that disables the requirement for online activation. Even if it's just done by one of the coders from his bedroom.

Then we'd be breaking the law/violating the EULA. We can already obtain 'patches' like this but there goes any form of multiplayer gaming.

People are far too quick to seize upon the negative that they seem to miss the stunningly obvious.

I prefer the term realist: The retail version of HL2 and the Steam version (the Full retail version and the Silver Version on Steam) cost exactly the same price (so much for passing the savings on to the consumer). Direct-Downloads have never been a problem for me and the whole 'Digital-Distribution' saves me on shipping/driving costs.

My gripe is with how poorly Steam is implemented and how its invasive tactics feel more like spyware than anything benevolent.

There's nothing quite like trying to fire up the SDK and receiving the "Game not available...try again later" message.

The "stick it to the publishers" mentality is a great way to disguise the true actions in effect here: more rights for the customer being relinquished. I wouldn't be surprised if Valve started charging a monthly subscription rate for Steam access after Half-Life 3 is released.

I'm in no way bashing Half-Life or the quality of the games from Valve but Steam is a deplorable means to control sales.

The Half-Life franchise is amazing...too bad oppressive marketing strategies had to create so many obstacles to enjoy it.

Sorry for slightly veering this thread off-topic.

 

[DrDevin]

I have nothing against purchasing anything online and downloading it to my hard drive (I've been doing this for years). My gripe resides with Steam itself. It's as if we're playing a MMOG everytime we fire up a single-player title. Connecting to an external source in order to play a single-player product is downright hostile toward consumers and jeopardizes the actual product itself.

What happens if Valve goes under (in this volatile industry that's not an improbability)? What will happen to all of these Steam-based games if/when Steam is defunct?
"Sorry, kid. Go buy our Classic-Super-Platinum Edition that has all of the products you already paid for." - no thanks.

HL2 is the first non-MMOG I've purchased in which I've been unable to play the game 'when I want to play it' due to external failures. This is also the last game I'll purchase like this.

If I have to break the law/violate some cryptic EULA with a third-party crack just to be able to use a product I've legitimately purchased, the business model is FUBAR.

If valve goes bankrupt then anyone who wants can purchase the rights to half life and distribute it on their own servers plus you can make a backup. Online mode lets you play without having to worry about an internet connection.

Steam lets anyone make a game and distribute it to millions of people cheaply. They remove the middle man and packaging and provide an easy way to introduce new content and fixes. As development costs rise there has to be new ways to save money.

http://newswww.bbc.net.uk/1/hi/technology/4562705.stm

It seems disappointing now but once games of every genre hit steam or other online methods of delivery (and the widespread use of high speed which is already in the hands of 50% or so of americans) you will think back on what you did before you had it!

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Then we'd be breaking the law/violating the EULA. We can already obtain 'patches' like this but there goes any form of multiplayer gaming.

If Valve release such an update, how is it breaking the EULA?

I prefer the term realist: The retail version of HL2 and the Steam version (the Full retail version and the Silver Version on Steam) cost exactly the same price (so much for passing the savings on to the consumer). Direct-Downloads have never been a problem for me and the whole 'Digital-Distribution' saves me on shipping/driving costs.

My gripe is with how poorly Steam is implemented and how its invasive tactics feel more like spyware than anything benevolent.

There's nothing quite like trying to fire up the SDK and receiving the "Game not available...try again later" message.

The "stick it to the publishers" mentality is a great way to disguise the true actions in effect here: more rights for the customer being relinquished. I wouldn't be surprised if Valve started charging a monthly subscription rate for Steam access after Half-Life 3 is released.

I'm in no way bashing Half-Life or the quality of the games from Valve but Steam is a deplorable means to control sales.

The Half-Life franchise is amazing...too bad oppressive marketing strategies had to create so many obstacles to enjoy it.

Sorry for slightly veering this thread off-topic.

That's a fantastic tinfoil hat you're wearing there.

 

[DoctorWeeTodd]

Half-Life and SiN were the first intelligent shooters I played. Maybe they were the first, looking forward to it and I can't wait to see how it looks.

 

[UndeadScottsman]

Deleted Scenes was a lot better than people gave it credit for IMHO.

Aye, it was pretty much Half-Life with CS weapons and was a decent distraction while waiting for Half-Life 2 to come out. Well worth the 1.50 I paid for it. (Go go back catalog!)

I mean, hell, it was better than Condition Zero.

Anywho, I beat Half-Life 2 in 11 hours ($4.50 an hour), so if this is even 5 hours per episode($4 an hour) , it'll be doing better than Half-Life 2. My only concern is getting access to the original SiN and it's expansion, as I have a rule about playing sequels before the original games.

 

[Smigit]

you will think back on what you did before you had it!

Half the fun is in getting that box off the shelf, talking to the clerk about how kick arse the game is, them handing me a pack of bubble gum with my game (I kid you not) and sitting there on the bus admiring what I have just got. It's only a 1 hr trip for me, I'd do it for the beautiful packaging anyway

 

[^Ben]

Then we'd be breaking the law/violating the EULA. We can already obtain 'patches' like this but there goes any form of multiplayer gaming.



I prefer the term realist: The retail version of HL2 and the Steam version (the Full retail version and the Silver Version on Steam) cost exactly the same price (so much for passing the savings on to the consumer). Direct-Downloads have never been a problem for me and the whole 'Digital-Distribution' saves me on shipping/driving costs.

My gripe is with how poorly Steam is implemented and how its invasive tactics feel more like spyware than anything benevolent.

There's nothing quite like trying to fire up the SDK and receiving the "Game not available...try again later" message.

The "stick it to the publishers" mentality is a great way to disguise the true actions in effect here: more rights for the customer being relinquished. I wouldn't be surprised if Valve started charging a monthly subscription rate for Steam access after Half-Life 3 is released.

I'm in no way bashing Half-Life or the quality of the games from Valve but Steam is a deplorable means to control sales.

The Half-Life franchise is amazing...too bad oppressive marketing strategies had to create so many obstacles to enjoy it.

Sorry for slightly veering this thread off-topic.

:tinfoilhat:

 

[Resvrgam]

Insulting someone when you fail to see their point isn't very constructive.

If Valve release such an update, how is it breaking the EULA?

If Valve goes under, there no longer is a "Valve" and any work created by former developers/team members is considered external/third-party (a breech in the EULA). This happened when Dynamix went under and a few former members decided to release patches for older games. If someone down the line decides to buy the rights to the IP/franchise, they are within their legal rights to sue the creators of these 'patches' and may even be able to pursue legal action against users (for "damaging profit potential"). It sucks and doesn't seem right but that's the world we live in. This is why no one has bothered to address the huge bug-issues in Thief 3: Deadly Shadows and Vampire: Bloodlines (Ion Storm & Troika went the way of the Dodo respectively).

 

[Link]

Spose you'd be interested in what Nintendo has planned for it's revolution game delivery service then hey?

Only because my copy of goldeneye dosen't work
Seriously, I think the revolution thing is a fantastic idea, although it nintendo could have saved a lot of effort if they ditched the catridge for the 64 like they should have.

...and sitting there on the bus admiring what I have just got. It's only a 1 hr trip for me, I'd do it for the beautiful packaging anyway

This is probably why we disagreed on the idea of digital versus retail. I have done that in the past, and time spent on the bus looking at the box drove me slightly mad (Not to the 11 year old stabbing level though). It made the journey seem to take 10 times longer. Mind you, the worst was buying an xbox (My PC was down at the time) at the start of the day, and having to wait till the end of my shift to use it. Grahhh.

 

[UndeadScottsman]

Insulting someone when you fail to see their point isn't very constructive.



If Valve goes under, there no longer is a "Valve" and any work created by former developers/team members is considered external/third-party (a breech in the EULA). This happened when Dynamix went under and a few former members decided to release patches for older games. If someone down the line decides to buy the rights to the IP/franchise, they are within their legal rights to sue the creators of these 'patches' and may even be able to pursue legal action against users (for "damaging profit potential"). It sucks and doesn't seem right but that's the world we live in. This is why no one has bothered to address the huge bug-issues in Thief 3: Deadly Shadows and Vampire: Bloodlines (Ion Storm & Troika went the way of the Dodo respectively).

What are you talking about? There's been several fan patches for Bloodlines.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Insulting someone when you fail to see their point isn't very constructive.

Excuse me?

If Valve goes under, there no longer is a "Valve" and any work created by former developers/team members is considered external/third-party (a breech in the EULA). This happened when Dynamix went under and a few former members decided to release patches for older games. If someone down the line decides to buy the rights to the IP/franchise, they are within their legal rights to sue the creators of these 'patches' and may even be able to pursue legal action against users (for "damaging profit potential"). It sucks and doesn't seem right but that's the world we live in. This is why no one has bothered to address the huge bug-issues in Thief 3: Deadly Shadows and Vampire: Bloodlines (Ion Storm & Troika went the way of the Dodo respectively).

Valve aren't owned by a publisher. Valve own all their own IP. If Valve go belly-up, then one of their ex-employees can easily release such a patch. If it breaches their own EULA, it's irrelevant, as Valve no longer exist to enforce such an EULA.
Valve have the ability to (trivially) remove authentication from Steam. In the event of their (unlikely) closure, they could easily do so in an official, first-party capacity.
There's been numerous game companies that have died over the years where ex-employees have continued to patch things afterwards. I certainly don't recall any lawsuits. Also, we're not talking about a game patch - we're talking about a Steam patch. With Valve licensing Steam technology to other developers (hello Ritual!), then those third-party developers are going to want the reassurance that people will have access to their titles in the event of Valve closing shop.
It's foolish to think that Valve haven't considered this possibility and planned a contingency, or that they have considered the possibility and just thought "sod it, they've already paid".

 

[Resvrgam]

That's a fantastic tinfoil hat you're wearing there.

I guess only the future will tell. By then; the "I told you so's" won't really matter anyway.