russia comunist party:indiana jones movie distorts history

[Nemesis6]

I'm just pointing out a fact. Sure Stalin was a ****, but the USSR ended a long time ago, and they were never the global threat the US media circus made out. I can appreciate why the Russians are pissed tbh. Sure, it's a kids film, but the image it portrays is out of date and pretty negative. It's kind of akin to portraying Jews with hooked noses, or black people as golliwogs. Just because it's pulp doesn't make it right. :dozey:

Never a threat? Read up on the man who saved us from nuclear war; Stanislav Petrov.

 

[Remus]

He was saying that when he was a kid he learnt the Soviet-imposed version of history, and then later blahblah blah.

No, I was saying that my father along with everyone else at that time were forced to learn "the soviet version of history". By the time I started school in 93 it was all over.

Hell, as it is now half the old intelligenciers are still in power.

bingo

 

[Oreolek]

Russian communist party consists(~80%,I suppose) of old people.They can't bear the democracy.
"Yeltsin ruined the country" is a common thought in Russia...always followed by a thought "If only the Soviet Union was at its power"...
We were taught that the USSR had a global power.In fact,we are taught it had.Is it true or not...only the Kremlin knows.18 years ago we were taught communism is the best we can have and democracy is a pure evil.17 years ago we were taught that democracy is the best we can have and communism is a pure evil.I've been taught that USSR was a hell and democracy is a heaven...but I didn't believe it.
The national patriotism and nationalism are separated very,very subtle and relative.Don't be nationalists.The Hollywood movies distort history for 50 years since WW2 when they say Americans won it (then why it's called World war?)***ssian communist party are old people...they remember those times and want to say something against such a blatant lie...however,I don't think they are doing the right thing.There were too much American movies,videogames,books and other things that distorted history.A fiction is a fiction.No more.If you want to believe it - do it***ssian mafia,KGB and communists are a common 'evil' things in the fiction.Just because "a man with a gun" needs some meat to shoot at.
Once again: "Erase the Indiana 4 from Russia!" means censorship.That would be the end.

 

[Crash]

^QFT^....Thanks for that post Oreolek...you said it alot better than I did...

 

[Kadayi]

Crash

I love it that you somehow think that think being a grunt means you've a better understanding of the nature of the world than most. Next up you'll be telling us the invasion of Iraq was wholly justified? :dozey:

Never a threat? Read up on the man who saved us from nuclear war; Stanislav Petrov.

How is his story one of an actual threat? The guy had the sense to question the data they received and asked for confirmation. The data they had received indicated they were being subject to a unprovoked nuclear strike, and the next option militarily would be to consider counter-attack. The guy thought they needed to double check the data to be absolutely sure, and it indeed proved to be a false positive.

 

[Direwolf]

Yeah, I'm thinking that Kadayi finally snapped.

 

[Que-Ever]

Hours in dimly lit rooms reading holy texts has pushed him over the brink.

 

[Crash]

Crash

I love it that you somehow think that think being a grunt means you've a better understanding of the nature of the world than most. Next up you'll be telling us the invasion of Iraq was wholly justified? :dozey:

First off, a 'grunt' is usually a Marine, or infantryman, I was neither. Second, I never said I had a better understanding of the nature of the world. All I said was that my experiences give me a basis for my opinions. Third, as far as the shit in Iraq, I am probably one of the few decorated combat vets who are against it. Anything else? Really dude, lighten the fu*ck up, it's a goddamn movie.

 

[MJ12]

Yeah, they should ban this and Hellboy. It's just ridiculous. I mean, the Nazis did not open a portal into another dimension with the help of a supernazi Kronen and Rasputin to summon a Demon child that's arm was actually a stone key to destroying all things.

Just plain LIES.

 

[Kadayi]

First off, a 'grunt' is usually a Marine, or infantryman, I was neither. Second, I never said I had a better understanding of the nature of the world. All I said was that my experiences give me a basis for my opinions. Third, as far as the shit in Iraq, I am probably one of the few decorated combat vets who are against it. Anything else? Really dude, lighten the fu*ck up, it's a goddamn movie.

Then why mention it in the first place if it wasn't to try and claim some position. :dozey:

Everyone has the right to not be grossly misrepresented, doesn't matter who they are/or what they might represent. Would it be fair to remake today any of the early Cowboys and Indians Westerns as they were made? With the indians viewed as little more than mindless savages fit only for a bullet at the hands of the civilized white man? Or would it be fair to remake Judge Priest and expect Will Smith to play the part of Poindexter in his best 'eyes rollin' Stepin fetchit impersonation? How so less the Russians? :dozey:

 

[nurizeko]

Why would the Russians want to model themselves on a system that's as broken and bent as US Democracy? There's nothing fair or Liberal about it. You have 2 parties both up to their eyes in serving the needs of special interest groups over those of the people. The invasion of Iraq didn't serve the US publics needs in any way whatsoever.

Hi, I'm British.

Coincedently, DIVERSE WORLD OF DEMOCRATIC STATES IS DIVERSE.



:imu:

 

[Crash]

"They will go to the cinema and will be sure that in 1957 we made trouble for the United States and almost started a nuclear war.
"It's rubbish... In 1957 the communists did not run with crystal skulls throughout the US."-Sergei Malinkovich St Petersburg Communist Party Chief

THAT is what the Russian Communist Party is worried about. A far cry from American Indians being portrayed savages, and the belittling of African Americans. Sounds like Malinkovich thinks he knows how Russian teenagers will think when (if) they see the movie. I give Russian teenagers more credit.

Moscow Communist official Andrei Andreyev-"It is very disturbing if talented directors want to provoke a new Cold War." A new Cold War over a movie? A new Cold War started by talented directors? Damn, what would happen if I told him he was ugly and his momma dressed him funny? Quotes from here.

But, you are right, "Everyone has the right to not be grossly misrepresented, doesn't matter who they are/or what they might represent." I agree with that, but it has nothing to do with this movie. The Russians were hardly grossly misrepresented.

Then why mention it in the first place if it wasn't to try and claim some position. :dozey:

Claim a position on what? The understanding of the nature of the world? Anyone who attempts to do that had better have alot of time on their hands... Again, what I was trying to say was that not everyone swallowed the American propaganda towards the end of the Cold War, and backed that opinion up with my experiences, my experiences, not from what some book, or movie, or teacher, or college professor told me. I went and experienced things first hand. I'm pretty sure experiences make a better basis for opinions than a freeking Hollywood movie....

 

[Kadayi]

Hi, I'm British.

Funnily enough so am I. Our systems almost as bent as the US one. The closest you get to a genuine democracy occurs when there is proportional representation across the board. Not when one party with it's own agenda gets into power and effectively answers to no one for 4-5 years, because they have an overwhelming majority. The majority of the British public were against going to war with Iraq, but that didn't stop Labour railroading it through parliament. Whose interests were they serving? The British publics, or the US governments?

 

[nurizeko]

Stop reading the Mail.

 

[Sulkdodds]

One does not have to read the Daily Mail to conclude that the British 'liberal democracy' is neither very liberal nor sufficiently democratic. Still, there is something to be said for the general reluctance of British politicians to indulge in organised thuggery, political assassination, outright censorship, and rule-by-secret-service.

 

[Kadayi]

Stop reading the Mail.

Stop making nonsensical assumptions.

One does not have to read the Daily Mail to conclude that the British 'liberal democracy' is neither very liberal nor sufficiently democratic. Still, there is something to be said for the general reluctance of British politicians to indulge in organised thuggery, political assassination, outright censorship, and rule-by-secret-service.

Yeah, we're not quite as bad as the US yet

 

[Ennui]

I'm just pointing out a fact. Sure Stalin was a ****, but the USSR ended a long time ago, and they were never the global threat the US media circus made out. I can appreciate why the Russians are pissed tbh. Sure, it's a kids film, but the image it portrays is out of date and pretty negative. It's kind of akin to portraying Jews with hooked noses, or black people as golliwogs. Just because it's pulp doesn't make it right. :dozey:

Are you kidding me? The Russians were never a threat? If they weren't a threat, the Cold War wouldn't have existed. They had nuclear warheads and ICBMs and were prepared to use them if necessary, I wouldn't really call that anything remotely resembling harmless. Also, the image it portrays is out of date, but the movie is set in 1957 and even pokes fun at the whole "BETTER DEAD THAN RED" thing when they drive across the quad demonstration during the motorcycle chase scene. I'm an American citizen, and I am VERY VERY DISPLEASED at their scandalously inaccurate portrayal of the CIA as suspicious, arrogant thugs, they distort history!

You throw up a couple of English performers songs as proof? You know about the same time everyone was lapping up 'Red Dawn' and going on about how accurate it was? Accurate that the Russians and Cubans (lol) were poised to invade the good ole USA at the drop of a hat. The US military loved that film so much they named the operation to capture Saddam Hussian after it."Operation Red Dawn was so fitting because it was a patriotic, pro-American movie.".

And where exactly did your father study Russian History? Did he major at St Antonys College perhaps? :dozey:

Regardless of where he got his information, he's correct. Our propaganda against the USSR was heavy as hell and relatively effective, but Russian propaganda was even worse. The CPSU's version of history greatly over-stressed Russian achievement, warped the hell out of all events surrounding the revolution etc, was heavily censored, and overall was essentially a fabrication loosely based on reality that they fed to the masses.

During the Cold War, Americans had very little idea of what Soviet life and culture was like due to all of the anti-Communist propaganda and the Iron Curtain; for the same reason, the Soviet people knew very little of what American life was like. I've taken university classes in Russian history and my professor's specialty lies in comparing his life on this side of the Cold War to the lives of Russians his age, so I actually do know what I'm talking about.

Why would the Russians want to model themselves on a system that's as broken and bent as US Democracy? There's nothing fair or Liberal about it. You have 2 parties both up to their eyes in serving the needs of special interest groups over those of the people. The invasion of Iraq didn't serve the US publics needs in any way whatsoever.

It'd be better than the current system of power in Russia, which is closer to a return to autocracy than it is a democracy or republic.

Russian communist party consists(~80%,I suppose) of old people.They can't bear the democracy.
"Yeltsin ruined the country" is a common thought in Russia...always followed by a thought "If only the Soviet Union was at its power"...
We were taught that the USSR had a global power.In fact,we are taught it had.Is it true or not...only the Kremlin knows.18 years ago we were taught communism is the best we can have and democracy is a pure evil.17 years ago we were taught that democracy is the best we can have and communism is a pure evil.I've been taught that USSR was a hell and democracy is a heaven...but I didn't believe it.
The national patriotism and nationalism are separated very,very subtle and relative.Don't be nationalists.The Hollywood movies distort history for 50 years since WW2 when they say Americans won it (then why it's called World war?)***ssian communist party are old people...they remember those times and want to say something against such a blatant lie...however,I don't think they are doing the right thing.There were too much American movies,videogames,books and other things that distorted history.A fiction is a fiction.No more.If you want to believe it - do it***ssian mafia,KGB and communists are a common 'evil' things in the fiction.Just because "a man with a gun" needs some meat to shoot at.
Once again: "Erase the Indiana 4 from Russia!" means censorship.That would be the end.

Straight from the source.

Crash

I love it that you somehow think that think being a grunt means you've a better understanding of the nature of the world than most. Next up you'll be telling us the invasion of Iraq was wholly justified? :dozey:

How is his story one of an actual threat? The guy had the sense to question the data they received and asked for confirmation. The data they had received indicated they were being subject to a unprovoked nuclear strike, and the next option militarily would be to consider counter-attack. The guy thought they needed to double check the data to be absolutely sure, and it indeed proved to be a false positive.

1) Antagonizing Crash because of his past military service is not only an ineffective tactic in this case, it's also somewhat deplorable because it's not remotely called for.
2) Petrov could have initiated the gears of mutual assured destruction on that day. We're lucky he had the sense to disobey orders and question the data instead of blowing us all to smithereens.

 

[<RJMC>]

that the soviet union was never a treath to the USA?

did someone forgot that day when

krushev:hey castro can I put some nuclear missiles in your country which is very close to the USA making possible to strike any part of it?

castro: oh sure, bring some cakes!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis

now you will say that castro is a missiles enthusiasts that wanted to see them

 

[Kadayi]

Regardless of where he got his information, he's correct. Our propaganda against the USSR was heavy as hell and relatively effective, but Russian propaganda was even worse.

There is no such thing as worse (a lie is a lie), or is 'they did it' a point of justification as you seem to think to perpetuate your own falsehoods. 'Hell they lied, so it's ok if we lie, and even though they are gone, we'll still going to lie about them, because we can!!!'. :dozey:

It'd be better than the current system of power in Russia, which is closer to a return to autocracy than it is a democracy or republic.

I'm sorry but you live in a country where out of 300 million people, about 25% of them think the next best person to be president of the country is the the wife of a former one, and the present incumbent is the son of a former one. What are the odds that these people represent the very best candidates to run the country over all those millions of other people? Oligarchy anyone? :dozey:

Antagonizing Crash because of his past military service is not only an ineffective tactic in this case, it's also somewhat deplorable because it's not remotely called for.

I don't see a point to people staking their credentials (real or exaggerated) in an open discussion. What counts is the weight of their arguments, nothing more. It you feel the need to try and validate your position though personal claims that fall outside of the topic, it seems to me you're lacking conviction. :dozey:

Petrov could have initiated the gears of mutual assured destruction on that day. We're lucky he had the sense to disobey orders and question the data instead of blowing us all to smithereens.

It was a false positive of an American attack upon the Soviet Union. I'm pretty sure the same protocols would of been in place were the US to detect an alleged attack by the USSR at the time as well. As we're not privy to what's gone on at NORAD, whose to say that similar things haven't occurred on the US end at times? Even modern computers fall down with alarming regularity, if you think in the 70s the odd false positive didn't flash up on the radar at one time or other you're tripping. Either way though, it wasn't a deliberate or overt threat as was implied by the original poster (my point). :dozey:

that the soviet union was never a treath to the USA?

Do you know why Khrushchev wanted missiles in Cuba? Because the USA had a necklace of missiles aimed at Russian Cities throughout it's European bases and the Russians had no deterrent against a US nuclear attack (inter continental missiles didn't exist then). The whole media circus paints the Russians out to be the aggressors but Khrushchev was simply trying to safeguard Russia from a pre-emptive strike in the event of a gung ho president getting into power (consider the latest president and his policy of pre-emptive..). When you actually study history critically and assess things from both sides, rather than simply take what your spoonfed as a given it makes for a better understanding of the world you live in. :dozey:

 

[nurizeko]

Stop making nonsensical assumptions.

Stop reading the Mail. :|

One does not have to read the Daily Mail to conclude that the British 'liberal democracy' is neither very liberal nor sufficiently democratic.

One does not have to read these forums to conclude theres a substantial percentage of internet forum posters who like to think the western world is spiraling towards 1984 even though the actual prophetic year of human social totalitarian hell was decades ago.

You say western democracies aren't democratic, I say move to the middle-east or China or somewhere else and tell me the wests imperfect but overall free and democratic system is proto-tyranny.


At worst the only thing wrong with British democracy is lazy voters and a populace a little less inclined then some to impeach leaders, aside from that our democratic systems, while not perfect (perfection is a flawed concept anyway), are robust and well entrenched.

Try living in a non-democratic state where accountability is near zero and you have absolutely no say whatsoever on your leaders, and the judiciary is completely subservient to the regime (like any show parliaments) before you make wild unfounded and weak statements taking a position which simply cannot stand to the scrutiny of logic and fact.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom#Government_and_politics


*groans and chafes under the pressure from the cold hard black jackboot of oppression*

 

[Kadayi]

Stop reading the Mail. :|

Get an education. :dozey:

 

[Direwolf]

I believe the point of that poster with the Petrov story was that when the world has come that close to being annihilated, stating that there was never any real threat is insanity. In a political climate that had so much nuclear sabre rattling, both sides represent a very serious threat to the survival of the world.

Back on the only slightly less crazy topic, if your teenagers are going to believe that the KGB was parading around the US after crystal skulls, then you've got some more serious problems than any movie.

 

[Kadayi]

I believe the point of that poster with the Petrov story was that when the world has come that close to being annihilated, stating that there was never any real threat is insanity. In a political climate that had so much nuclear sabre rattling, both sides represent a very serious threat to the survival of the world.

If you have guns there always exist the probability that they will be fired, whether by accident or design, but a threat is always by design. My point.

 

[<RJMC>]

Do you know why Khrushchev wanted missiles in Cuba? Because the USA had a necklace of missiles aimed at Russian Cities throughout it's European bases and the Russians had no deterrent against a US nuclear attack (inter continental missiles didn't exist then). The whole media circus paints the Russians out to be the aggressors but Khrushchev was simply trying to safeguard Russia from a pre-emptive strike in the event of a gung ho president getting into power (consider the latest president and his policy of pre-emptive..). When you actually study history critically and assess things from both sides, rather than simply take what your spoonfed as a given it makes for a better understanding of the world you live in. :dozey:

and why they have those,oh yeah cuz the soviet union never did something like help countryes fighting against the usa to put more allied goverments around while the americans didnt wanted comunisn to expand,however the soviet union allways supported any goverment that went against the USA,whayt would any country do about that?

anyway you mentioned the word oligarch which means you have a poster of lenin mao and castro on your room and pray to them everynight before going to sleep

sure you lit candless for the death of marulanda right?

 

[Kadayi]

and why they have those,oh yeah cuz the soviet union never did something like help countryes fighting against the usa to put more allied goverments around while the americans didnt wanted comunisn to expand,however the soviet union allways supported any goverment that went against the USA,whayt would any country do about that?

anyway you mentioned the word oligarch which means you have a poster of lenin mao and castro on your room and pray to them everynight before going to sleep

sure you lit candless for the death of marulanda right?

Come back to me when you can string a sentence together in something remotely resembling legible English, because frankly that is gibberish, and I wouldn't know where to begin addressing it. Did I light candles for the marijuana ? :dozey:

 

[Nemesis6]

How is his story one of an actual threat? The guy had the sense to question the data they received and asked for confirmation. The data they had received indicated they were being subject to a unprovoked nuclear strike, and the next option militarily would be to consider counter-attack. The guy thought they needed to double check the data to be absolutely sure, and it indeed proved to be a false positive.

Pay attention to the "Aftermath" section. If he had told these superiors they would most likely have acted on it, and believed this attack was legit. Essentially, by lack of action on a false alert, he avoided causing panic. Once a threat was detected, they would have just 2 minutes to determine whether or not to launch a full-scale war with the United States.

This story is one of an actual threat because ONE man was intelligent enough to spot an error, and not to make a fuzz about it. Another thing is, it could just as easily had been a ploy, electronic warfare, etc, especially the way the whole thing panned out - First one radar contact, and then several more following. But for some reason, he arrived at the conclusion which would see our world into the next century. I say that one man standing between a nuclear between the biggest nations on Earth is dangerous, especially with this truly Soviet-quality equipment at their disposal. Face it, he's most likely the reason that Russia and America still exist as countries.

 

[Crash]

Ya know Kadayi, I've given you the benifit of the doubt through most of this. But I'm not going to be drawn onto an argument over opinions. And if you are impling that I am 'exaggerating' my experiences, you are venturing into personal jibes, and that isn't any way to have a pratical discussion. What is the weight of your argument? Unless you have very credible sources, you are stating your opinion. And your opinion should be based on a little more than what you read, or see on tv. Because, as I think we can agree, most of the media consists of some kind of biased view.
If it means anything to you, if I could learn the language, I would live in Germany. The 2 years I spent there were very enjoyable. And, I've actually given serious consideration to moving to the UK. The 2 weeks I spent there is kind of a haze (the punks with the 2 foot mohawks drank me under several tables), but for some reason I'm drawn to England. Like I've said before, I love my country, it's the government I have issues with.
Anyway, it seems you want to belittle the things I've seen and done in life, and if that is the case, this isn't really worth my time. I have far better things to do, like watching my cat sleep....

 

[Asknoone]

'Nuff.

 

[Ennui]

Samon, you are too nice, now I can't respond to Kayadi.