Russians riot yesterday in Tallinn, Estonia

ivisak

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War monument move brings riots and Moscow's wrath

Friday, April 27, 2007

A decision by Estonian authorities to remove a Soviet-era war memorial in central Tallinn has sparked rioting, with Russian Foreign minister Sergei Lavrov promising to "take serious steps" against Estonia.

TALLINN, April 27, 2007 (AFP) - Estonian authorites moved a Soviet-era war memorial from central Tallinn under cover of darkness Friday setting off riots that left at least one dead and sparking fury in Moscow.

The leader of the Russian senate called for diplomatic relations with Estonia to be broken because of the removal of the monument. Russia's foreign ministry called the move "blasphemous" and said relations would be examined.

As Estonian authorities cordoned off the central square where the Red Army war memorial has been for decades, about 1,000 pro-Russian demonstrators gathered nearby to protest.

Their demonstration turned into a riot in which police used water cannon, rubber batons, and flash and sound grenades to disperse crowds and prevent youths from forcing their way through a police cordon.

"One person died after being taken to hospital and 43 have been treated for injuries sustained in the violence," Tallinn police chief Raivo Kuut said on Estonian Television.

More than 300 people were detained following the riots which were the worst the Baltic state has seen since restoring independence from Moscow in 1991.

A government emergency commission met during the night and ordered the controversial monument removed from the square to a new location, which is being kept secret, the government press office said.

Ethnic Estonians see the memorial as a symbol of 50 years of Soviet occupation while Russia considers it a symbol of the fight against Nazism in World War II.

"The aim of the government move was to prevent further similar gross violations of public order, which pose a real threat to citizens' health and property," the government said in a statement.

The plan to relocate the statue has caused anger in Moscow, which says the Estonians are glorifying fascism by insisting on moving it.

Sergei Mironov, head of the upper house of the Russian parliament, called Friday for a break in relations with Estonia.

"I urge you to adopt a resolution addressed to the president recommending a break in diplomatic relations with Estonia," he told lawmakers.

Russian lawmakers were to vote on a non-binding resolution on Friday.

A spokesman for the Russian foreign ministry, Mikhail Kamynin, called the Estonian government's action "blasphemous" and "inhuman". He added that Russia would re-examine its relations with the ex-Soviet Baltic state.

The head of the international affairs committee in the lower house of the Russian parliament, Konstantin Kosachyov, also recommended tough measures against Estonia on Friday.

"We will of course demand from the executive the toughest possible reaction to what is happening in Estonia," Kosachyov was quoted as saying by Interfax news agency. "It's barbaric, it's blasphemous," Kosachyov added.

The Estonian government voted last year to move the monument to a less prominent location after scuffles broke out at the memorial between pro-Russian supporters and ethnic Estonians.

Estonia and its Baltic neighbours were annexed by the Soviet Union at the close of World War II and only regained independence in 1991.

The authorities wanted to conduct excavation work at the site to determine if any fallen World War II soldiers lie buried beneath the statue before moving it.

taken from www.france24.com


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In Estonia, there are about 1,3 million people in total, about 300 000 of them are russians. This monument, for me, as an ethnic estonian means death to my relatives and other people who were forced on trains by russian soldiers in 14 june, 1941 and on 25 March, 1949 to Syberia by the command of Stalin himself. Under soviet ocupation, about 122 000 ethnic estonians were victims, 30 000 lost their lives.

Your comments please.

oh, and please excuse me for my bad english.

NB! more info in here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Soldier_of_Tallinn
 
Silly Russians, dont they just sit around eating pierogies?
 
I have an urge to say they should keep the memorial becuase it honors those who died fighting the Nazis, but the soviet union wasn't much better.
 
This monument, for me, as an ethnic estonian means death to my relatives and other people who were forced on trains by russian soldiers in 14 june, 1941 and on 25 March, 1949 to Syberia by the command of Stalin himself. Under soviet ocupation, about 122 000 ethnic estonians were victims, 30 000 lost their lives.

I couldn't agree more. I hope the estonian government tells them to go **** themselves!

Russian Foreign minister Sergei Lavrov promising to "take serious steps" against Estonia.

Like what you douche bag!
 
Is it just me or is Russian politics getting crazier and crazier lately? The other week they banned any non-russians from running market stalls in Moscow, and then there was all that shit with Georgia last year.

Not to mention all the neo-nazis and cops beating the shit out of Gay rights protesters.
 
They're separate countries, no? Wasn't Russia included in the breakup of the Soviet Union? Maybe they should sell it to Russia if they're so bent on it.
 
why not give the statue to the russians?
 
Some pics:
http://pronkss6dur.nero.pri.ee/pronkss6dur2007/2pooltjaprygikast.jpg
http://pronkss6dur.nero.pri.ee/pronkss6dur2007/alkopood.jpg
http://pronkss6dur.nero.pri.ee/pronkss6dur2007/autokesetteed.jpg
http://pronkss6dur.nero.pri.ee/pronkss6dur2007/l6ke.jpg
http://pronkss6dur.nero.pri.ee/pronkss6dur2007/westmani2rivol2.jpg
http://www.liiklus.net/ajutine/Hinnavaatlus/IMG_5151.JPG
http://www.ap3.ee/images/article/3f28078c-6c8b-4100-934b-05416852b296.jpg
http://www.ap3.ee/images/article/351578ea-2def-49e7-9583-f283776fec58.jpg
http://www.postimees.ee/galerii/upload/16/866/p_cbf730f8.jpg

What surprises me is the brutality of these russians. They threw molotow coctails and sharp objects into a restaurant while people were eating there, they broke a female police-officers leg when she tried to stop some guys looting a kiosk and alot of people got kicked/punched just beacause they are estonians.. (Didn't they call us fascists? :p)
Most of these rioters didn't give a shit about that monument, they just wanted to destroy stuff and loot the stores.

And of course russian media shows clips where police tries to clear the area with flash/sound charges, watercannons and rubber-bullets and says that 50 got injured and 1 killed while actually most of them injured themselves while breaking windows of stores and houses. (that 1 guy got stabbed by an unknown attacker)

Anyway I hope that this situation cools off because it's not good for both sides.
 
Is it just me or is Russian politics getting crazier and crazier lately? The other week they banned any non-russians from running market stalls in Moscow, and then there was all that shit with Georgia last year.

Not to mention all the neo-nazis and cops beating the shit out of Gay rights protesters.
It's not just you.
 
The statue shouldn't have been torn down, and the Russians shouldn't be destroying things. Upon seeing those pictures, I'm reminded by a thing in Denmark where we tore down this squatting house that was the base of the far-left radicalists and anarchists of Copenhagen. Burning barricades were erected, buildings were ransacked, cars destroyed, and everything they could find was smashed and/or burned.

The thing is, it seems: The Estonians and the people of the Baltic nations love the Nazis because they faught the Russians. Quite a sad thing for a society to evolve that way. It's not much of a secret that the Russians are hated in the Baltic countries, and this is another example of it.
 
The Estonians might well be justified for harbouring some animosity towards Russians; they were, after all, under the Soviet heel for however-many-years. The removal of the monument bespeaks no 'glorification of fascism' - merely a hatred of the totallitarianism of the regime that erected the monument. Russia's triumph over the nazis was, after all, its simultaneous triumph over the peoples of Eastern Europe.

Who says 'the statue shouldn't have been torn down'? The law that allowed the removal of this statue passed through Estonia's legislature 66 votes to 6. If it is regarded as a symbol of Soviet oppression then so be it. There's a problem here, though: post 1992 citizenship for the Soviets who had migrated over there was revoked, reserving Estonian citizenship to descendants of pre-1940 citizens and leaving a third of the country's population without any actual citizenship. Only one third of ethnic Russians there actually have Estonian citizenship. The government is pursuing a policy of integration, where ethnic Russians need to know the country's language and history.

Because the Soviet occupation is not well-regarded, the descendants of Russians who moved over there are sometimes seen as having no right to be there. It doesn't help that on the other side, many Russians see themselves as having a right to live there because they are the descendants of Estonia's 'liberators' (never mind that they were also Estonia's oppressors) - something the monument symbolises for them.

Ultimately, while there is a problem whereby 30% of the country, many of them ethnic Russians, are presumably denied the vote (do non-citizens get to vote in Estonian elections?), if the country as a whole wants to remove the monument it's not really Russia's affair.

I think the most pressing issue here is the Russian reaction and attitude towards their former satellite states. There seems to be a frightening extent to which some Russians still regard themselves as the 'liberators', even political rulsers, of Estonia - believe that they have the right to boss the little country around and exert their influence.

Seriously. "Take serious steps against Estonia"? Call for diplomatic relations with Estonia to be broken? "Blasphemous"? What is this? It's like the removal of the statue is a declaration of war. The response of Russian authorities and diplomats is wholly disproportionate and bespeaks a scary prevalence of the attitude that Estonia still belongs to the motherland, that, combined with the continuing rise of near-Stalinism, is extremely worrying. Having been to Russia myself, I cannot say I'm reassured that all is well after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

One might say, considering all this, that Estonian animosity towards Russia is being vindicated.


Let's not get started on the Ungdomshuset.
 
Seriously, russians should care about their empire of evil and let Europe alone.

Eastern Europe was part of their "empire of evil", so your statement does not compute...
 
The thing is, it seems: The Estonians and the people of the Baltic nations love the Nazis because they faught the Russians. Quite a sad thing for a society to evolve that way. It's not much of a secret that the Russians are hated in the Baltic countries, and this is another example of it.
We don't love Nazis (tho neonazism is becoming quite a big problem here), nor do we hate Russians. I have many Russian friends who have nothing against our country.
The problem with some Russians is that they refuse to learn our language and still think that Estonia should be part of Russia. Many of them are quite aggressive too.

(do non-citizens get to vote in Estonian elections?)
They can vote in local elections but not in parliament ones. (if they don't have any other citizenship)
 
Face the facts: During the Russian era, you started killing Jews to impress the Nazis. And then later, communist-sypathizers did the same, which draws some interesting parallels between the two ideologies, but I'll raise another point: The first country to enter Lithuania was Denmark because we helped the Nazi SS. In other words, they trusted us because they saw us as friends of the Nazis, which they saw as their own friends.
 
Heh, it's a symbol of blah, blah, and blah. And tearing it down erases your own terrible past in the process I see.
 
Face the facts: During the Russian era, you started killing Jews to impress the Nazis. And then later, communist-sypathizers did the same, which draws some interesting parallels between the two ideologies.
What? Face the facts? "People in the past liked the nazis so that means the whole country does"? There were plenty of collaborators or sympathisers in France, Hungary, Romania, even Britain...the link you're drawing is an extremely tenuous one, especially considering that the Soviet Union was almost as bad, if not worse, as the Nazi regime.

If the positions of the Nazis and the Soviets were swapped (Nazis the liberators and then occupiers; Soviets the initial oppressors) and there was a Nazi monument to the German war dead, I for one wouldn't view it in such a great light - would you?
 
It's each country's choise what to do with their own statues. If Russia likes it that much they can buy it from Estonia or make a copy and place in next to comrade Lenin's Mausoleum. I'm honestly scared about what's going on in Russia. Putin is a facist that obviously supports oppression not only against his own people put also formers territories and puppet states of the USSR. The EU as well as the rest of the world needs to stand behind Estonia on this one. We must show Putin that Russia can't continue to act like it has done before. The time of oppression on the peoples of eastern Europe is over.
 
The only reason why Russia is still using its dictatorship manners is because they stant on a lot of gaz fields.

Have you seen latly the old school force they use ? Killing journalists who oppose to the regime? This is the 21 century for christ sake !
 
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