Saudi Arabia buys Eurofighter for £6billion

Typhoons are built just down the road from where I live - so now I've got another 10 years of them flying over, making the house shake and the windows rattle. Thanks, Saudi Arabia.
 
Pi Mu Rho said:
Typhoons are built just down the road from where I live - so now I've got another 10 years of them flying over, making the house shake and the windows rattle. Thanks, Saudi Arabia.
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You must feel so lucky :(. I wish i lived there, i have the red arrows just down the road but rarely get to see them practice or fly over. :(
 
Complete hypocracy, we threaten them with inasion whilst making money out of there evil regime.
 
Are we threatening Saudi Arabia with invasion?

Razor said:
You must feel so lucky . I wish i lived there, i have the red arrows just down the road but rarely get to see them practice or fly over.
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We get Typhoons, Hawks, Tornados and now Nimrods as well - they're utterly bastard loud. Oh yeah, and the engine tests as well. It's only quiet round here on Sundays :)
 
We get a lot of Tornado flyovers from RAF Leeming here, in the summer months. They get really low and loud, but you get used to it.
 
Good for them--thanks to the US and Pakistan and lots of foreigner volunteers, Saudi Arabia doesn't need to worry about the Soviet threat anymore, but the ridiculously insane Iranian threat still looms to them and us and really every other civilized nation in the world. Now maybe they can protect themselves a bit better.... :eek:
 
Solaris said:
Complete hypocracy, we threaten them with inasion whilst making money out of there evil regime.
Click to expand...

We threatend them with what now?

and anyway, we've been arming them to the teeth for decades now. remember the challenger MBT was oringally designed to replace aging saudi cheifdans.

Remember, we're europeins. that means we'll sell weapons to anyone and everyone (exept China, for some reason)
 
I used to have a caravan in the country, right next to the river Severn which goes through the Severn Valley.
On the horizon (we was pretty high up) there was a huge forest and in the centre theres an army base. Only way in or out was by chopper, jet (fighter jets) or a big ass hercules plane. All of these flew over my caravan weekdays and were skimming the trees as they did.
It's really an amazing site to see jets and the life go zooming past so low. We could see the pilots.

Hercules plane:
http://img275.imageshack.us/my.php?image=herc19ir.jpg
 
Pi Mu Rho said:
Typhoons are built just down the road from where I live - so now I've got another 10 years of them flying over, making the house shake and the windows rattle. Thanks, Saudi Arabia.
Click to expand...

A Uni colleague lives across from Wharton :D , you can't beat that
 
VictimOfScience said:
but the ridiculously insane Iranian threat still looms to ... really every other civilized nation in the world.
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You don't really mean that, do you?
 
I'd much rather the UAE get all the cool military hardware instead of Saudi Arabia. At least the Emiratis know how to keep fair domestic and foreign policies, which is more than you can say for the Saudis.

Well, at least Bahrain can still boast that we're 1 of only 10 nations that use the AMRAAM missile.
 
Pi Mu Rho said:
Are we threatening Saudi Arabia with invasion?



We get Typhoons, Hawks, Tornados and now Nimrods as well - they're utterly bastard loud. Oh yeah, and the engine tests as well. It's only quiet round here on Sundays :)
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that must get annoying after say.. the first two or so times hearing it.
how do you manage?
 
To be honest, you tend to filter it out when it's not too loud, and you just automatically adjust for the loud ones (i.e. you stop speaking for a minute)

Having said that, though, you do get the occasional one (or two) coming over at full chat, loud as anything and you find yourself fighting the impulse to duck.
 
el Chi said:
You don't really mean that, do you?
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Are you kidding? Have you heard the man? He is certifiable. I would be hard pressed to decide if he is worse than the Ayatollah Khomeini was, but his sentiments are easily as radical and as dangerous.
 
I live right next to Oceana Naval Air Force base, and jets practice around here all the time. I actually quite like it. I think fighters are some of the coolest looking things in the world, and the noise isnt all that bad, but thats mostly cause im a little farther out.
 
with some of the EM projectile and pulse weapons developed in the star wars program, you could down any modern jet with the flick of a switch, muhahah
 
You are KIDDING ME!! 6Billion!!?? For the best fighter in the world?? You are way too cheap!! That thing should cost at least 16 Billion! That aircraft is amazing!

Anyway...that's pretty cool.
 
I remember seeing one demonstrate its agility and turning circle at an airshow...fcking amazing. :eek:
 
The eurofighter isnt the best in the world. It may be the best bang for your buck, but when compared to the new stuff coming out from the USA, it pales. SA has traditionally purchased all of its military hardware from America, and this looks like a shift in their budget.
 
dream431ca said:
You are KIDDING ME!! 6Billion!!?? For the best fighter in the world?? You are way too cheap!! That thing should cost at least 16 Billion! That aircraft is amazing!

Anyway...that's pretty cool.
Click to expand...

CSAF: Raptor, Eurofighter Complementary

(Source: US Air Force; issued march 22, 2005)

WASHINGTON --- The Air Force chief of staff added to his 5,000-plus flying hours with familiarization flights in both the F/A-22 Raptor and the Eurofighter aircraft.

Gen. John P. Jumper said the Eurofighter is both agile and sophisticated, but is still difficult to compare to the F/A-22 Raptor. He is the only person to have flown both aircraft.

"They are different kinds of airplanes to start with," the general said. "It's like asking us to compare a NASCAR car with a Formula 1 car. They are both exciting in different ways, but they are designed for different levels of performance."

The Raptor is the latest addition to the Air Force combat aircraft inventory. The Eurofighter is a combat fighter aircraft designed and produced as a joint effort by several European countries.

Despite being designed for different missions, General Jumper said the Eurofighter and the Raptor are equally high-tech aircraft.

"The Eurofighter is certainly, as far as smoothness of controls and the ability to pull (and sustain high G forces), very impressive," he said. "That is what it was designed to do, especially the version I flew, with the avionics, the color moving map displays, etc. -- all absolutely top notch. The maneuverability of the airplane in close-in combat was also very impressive."

The F/A-22 performs in much the same way as the Eurofighter, General Jumper said. But it has additional capabilities that allow it to perform the Air Force's unique missions.

"The F/A-22 Raptor has stealth and supercruise," he said. "It has the ability to penetrate virtually undetected because of (those) capabilities. It is designed to be a penetrating airplane. It can maneuver with the best of them if it has to, but what you want to be able to do is get into contested airspace no matter where it is."

General Jumper said he believes the Eurofighter and the Raptor will help America's allies and the Air Force each perform their part of the overall mission as they work together to execute the war on terror.

"We do things in a complementary way," he said. "We have been to war with our allies in Desert Storm, in Kosovo and more recently in Afghanistan and Iraq. We all have our roles to play, and the role of the U.S. Air Force is in many ways to kick down the door and make sure the airspace is available for people to do whatever it is they want to do in the air or on the ground under that airspace."

One advantage of having flown the Eurofighter, General Jumper said, is that it allows him to get first-hand knowledge of technology U.S. allies use and to see how America's handiwork stacks up. He said he believes the two aircraft are running neck-and-neck, but America must always be vigilant to ensure it stays on the cutting edge of aviation technology.

"You can see the technology that is out there compared with ours," he said. "You see the avionics and all of the great progress that has been made. You make sure you are not too complacent, because the technology that they have is very competitive with technology that we have."
 
Eg. said:
The eurofighter isnt the best in the world. It may be the best bang for your buck, but when compared to the new stuff coming out from the USA, it pales. SA has traditionally purchased all of its military hardware from America, and this looks like a shift in their budget.
Click to expand...

How much is the Raptor per aircraft, the Eurofighter is £60,000,000 each with the extras such as servicing, etc. And Saudi Arabia have always bought their aircraft from Britain/Europe for the past 30 years, the Eurofighter is replacing the Tornado.
 
Razor said:
How much is the Raptor per aircraft, the Eurofighter is £60,000,000 each with the extras such as servicing, etc. And Saudi Arabia have always bought their aircraft from Britain/Europe for the past 30 years, the Eurofighter is replacing the Tornado.
Click to expand...

I cant quote exact figures but the F22 is expensive. Very expensive. Thats why the JSF/F35 was developed to try and stop the "death spiral" that the US was in. Bassically if they kept developing things like the F22 eventually the entire US defence buget (well, the bit for planes, anyway) would be spent on one aircraft. The Airforce would have it in the moring, the Navy in the afternoon and the Army get it in the evening. The marines get it on leap years (or something along those lines).

Then again, the eurofighter aint cheap. And they've got to recoup the costs of the long development (lets not forget, the Typhoon was developed to combat the latest in Soveit aircraft design.).
 
An F-22 I think was last estimated in the Hundreds of Millions, I dont know if that is 200million, or 900million. SA aslo has a few wings of F-15 and 16's.
 
RakuraiTenjin said:
CSAF: Raptor, Eurofighter Complementary

(Source: US Air Force; issued march 22, 2005)

WASHINGTON --- The Air Force chief of staff added to his 5,000-plus flying hours with familiarization flights in both the F/A-22 Raptor and the Eurofighter aircraft.

Gen. John P. Jumper said the Eurofighter is both agile and sophisticated, but is still difficult to compare to the F/A-22 Raptor. He is the only person to have flown both aircraft.

"They are different kinds of airplanes to start with," the general said. "It's like asking us to compare a NASCAR car with a Formula 1 car. They are both exciting in different ways, but they are designed for different levels of performance."

The Raptor is the latest addition to the Air Force combat aircraft inventory. The Eurofighter is a combat fighter aircraft designed and produced as a joint effort by several European countries.

Despite being designed for different missions, General Jumper said the Eurofighter and the Raptor are equally high-tech aircraft.

"The Eurofighter is certainly, as far as smoothness of controls and the ability to pull (and sustain high G forces), very impressive," he said. "That is what it was designed to do, especially the version I flew, with the avionics, the color moving map displays, etc. -- all absolutely top notch. The maneuverability of the airplane in close-in combat was also very impressive."

The F/A-22 performs in much the same way as the Eurofighter, General Jumper said. But it has additional capabilities that allow it to perform the Air Force's unique missions.

"The F/A-22 Raptor has stealth and supercruise," he said. "It has the ability to penetrate virtually undetected because of (those) capabilities. It is designed to be a penetrating airplane. It can maneuver with the best of them if it has to, but what you want to be able to do is get into contested airspace no matter where it is."

General Jumper said he believes the Eurofighter and the Raptor will help America's allies and the Air Force each perform their part of the overall mission as they work together to execute the war on terror.

"We do things in a complementary way," he said. "We have been to war with our allies in Desert Storm, in Kosovo and more recently in Afghanistan and Iraq. We all have our roles to play, and the role of the U.S. Air Force is in many ways to kick down the door and make sure the airspace is available for people to do whatever it is they want to do in the air or on the ground under that airspace."

One advantage of having flown the Eurofighter, General Jumper said, is that it allows him to get first-hand knowledge of technology U.S. allies use and to see how America's handiwork stacks up. He said he believes the two aircraft are running neck-and-neck, but America must always be vigilant to ensure it stays on the cutting edge of aviation technology.

"You can see the technology that is out there compared with ours," he said. "You see the avionics and all of the great progress that has been made. You make sure you are not too complacent, because the technology that they have is very competitive with technology that we have."
Click to expand...

Please, do not start with me. The Eurofighter has supercruise as well, and does not have stealth because it doesn't need it. Take it from me. I am in the aviation busniess and at work we always have debates about the best fighter jet among other things, and I can tell you that the Eurofighter could destroy an F/22 raptor with hardly any effort what so ever. And the latest fighter to enter the US military service is not the F/22 raptor, it's the joint strike fighter which IMO, is a much better fighter.

Plus, you can't really classify the F/22 as a "fighter" because of the stealth technology. The stealth can protect it from some ground radar, but not an enemy aircraft radar. So if the F/22 should be used at all, it should be used as a bomber rather than a fighter. The stealth technology is virtually useless against other fighter jets.

Now on to the Eurofighter. The Eurofighter has a delta shaped wing that is also built on the fuselage like the F/22. The major difference is the shape of the Eurofighter wing is much more broader, giving it a much better acrobatic capability. Also the aircraft can handle a lot more G's than the F/22. The F/22 is not used for major aerobatics while the Eurofighter is. The Eurofighter is also 2000 pounds lighter than the F/22 once again, improving the acrobatics.

There are some elements of the F/22 that is better than the Eurofighter which are:

The aircraft is more quiet
The engines are incased in the airframe so little heat comes out of the back of the aircraft (also produces less contrails in cold weather)
The aircraft is not easy to spot in the sky by the human eye.

I bet you anything, that if a Eurofighter gets into combat with a F/22 the Eurofighter will win for one simple reason: The F/22 relies way to much on it's techology.

Here is something you will never hear from the US military or the European Military (Remeber, I hear this stuff a lot, I work in the industry). The European military looks at the F/22 raptor and says, an EMP charge would kill that aircraft, since it has NO backup avionics, and the engines are so dependent on the computer systems. Basically the aircraft would be virtually unflyable. The Eurofighter on the other hand is not so dependant on state of the art computer avioncs. So if an EMP charge hits that aircraft, all that will happen is the avionics will be destroyed. The engines are not run on computer systems. The European military is so surprized that the US military is relying so much on computers to fly aircraft.

For example: the F-117 Steath fighter. That aircraft NEEDS, it's computers. That aircraft cannot fly without computers...they don't even need a pilot to fly that aircraft. The only reason why they have a pilot (and remember the US military does not tell you this), is to target bomb sites. That's one thing the F-117 cannot do by itself. If it could, that would be the worlds largest robotic aircraft.

So as you can see, it's much more complex than anything you can ever read on the internet. Here is a compete run-down on both aircraft:

F/22:
Stealth capability (which is rather useless for dog fights)
Engines are hidden in the airframe
Less noise
Less exhaust
Supercruise (which is essentually getting up to faster than the speed of sound and staying at that speed without using afterburner)
Cost a hell of a lot
overall great aircraft

Eurofighter
Lightweight (better aerobatics)
No stealth capability (but extremely good handling)
Engines are noisy
Fair bit of exhast
Engine power is greater than the F/22 (faster acceleration)
Not packed with electronics

The weakness of both of them:

F/22: WAY to much computer relyability (once the enemy figures out that instead of sending ICBM's or SAM's with warheads on them they can send ICBM's or SAM's with EMP bombs, the aircraft is a flying brick or a sitting duck.)

Eurofighter: Creates too much exhaust and noise, easy to spot for enemies. But once it's spotted, just try and shoot it down.

So each fighter is a good aircraft. I say they are just about equal.
 
dream, just a question on your statement about the eurofighter being able to handle more g's. arent we at the point where the ability for an aircraft to handle a maneuver is based on the pilots ability to handle g's?

also, if it were so easy to shoot down the f22 with "an emp charge", it will be equally as easy to neutralize a eurofighter given that (i can only assume) the eurofighter uses fly-by-wire controls which, as we both know, are not very well shielded against EMP. fact is, either aircraft would be uncontrollable (indeed any piece of modern electronics) if given this "emp charge" you speak of. and where would this charge come from? the goldeneye? be honest with yourself, aircraft today are virtually unflyable without computer assistance, given the bizarre geometry of them (particularly stealth aircraft). not to mention the most advanced radar technology on the EF is pulse dopplar while the f22 is use AESA.

regarding stealth as not an advantage you are certainly wrong. even the avionics (doplar, pulse doplar and the various types of radar techniques they employ) of modern aircraft make for some difficulty detecting stealth aircraft. typically it becomes very possible at the 30km mark in dogfighting, but lets be honest by that point the missiles are in the air and have hit their mark and the enemy fighter is going down in flames. not to mention the absolute best dogfighters in the world come out of the american military. its been true since ww2 and korea. in dogfights, the eurofighter will lose much of its energy when speed decreases (as turning INcreases) and will have difficulty regaining that speed given the smaller thrust-to-weight ratio of the f22. the EF is stalling at this point and the f22 is thrust-vectoring circles around the EF. not a good position to be in.

the f-117 is the best light bomber in the world
the b2 is the best medium bomber in the world
the sr71 is/was the best reconnaissance aircraft in the world

there is no non-stealth alternatives to this platforms. there has never been a stealth fighter. one can only assume they will follow the trend.

btw how do you know how the eurofighter is so much faster than the f22 when the max speed of the f22 is classified?

edit: i think you are viewing the EF in the wrong light. its purpose is to provide the EU with a fighter that can shoot down just about anything BUT the f-22 and focus on more of a multi-role. we want the best anti air fighter bar none and currently we have it.
 
the rafale cant be compared to either. maybe compared to the f15 its a decent fighter jet. i remember they put 3 F-16C's up against a Eurofighter and none of them were able to score any locks on the EF. And I know for damn sure the f16 is competitive with the rafale. the rafale is a generation behind either the 22 or the ef.
 
Hummm, I'll have to check about the generation, it hasn't even come into service yet (the first scuadrons are just getting operational)
 
seattle, washington.

Adrien C said:
Hummm, I'll have to check about the generation, it hasn't even come into service yet (the first scuadrons are just getting operational)
Click to expand...
last generation in terms of technology. it isnt designed (and if it was i'm... sorry) to compete with aircraft that wont be put into service for a few years yet.
 
well adrien let me clarify, actually. the rafale can definitely hold its own against our current generation fighters (the f16, and certainly f18). but i dont think it will be too much of a challenge for an f22 or a EF. although its extremely unlikely the 3 would ever fight each other and it is troubling to see us comparing apples to carrots to pineapples. the one disadvantage the rafale has is the pretty bad selection of french missiles.
 
OvA said:
Ooh, I get it Seattle, Sea...clever

You should visit Valve
Click to expand...
i did. i met gabe and discussed a mod that we were very far into but never quite took hold. i also met al ot of the team members and saw a lot of the tech videos.
 
gh0st said:
i did. i met gabe and discussed a mod that we were very far into but never quite took hold. i also met al ot of the team members and saw a lot of the tech videos.
Click to expand...

*kisses feet*
 
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