Serious Mod Beginning Development

[Halorin]

Hello, everyone. I'm Halorin, and I'm trying to start work on a mod of epic proportion. I'm sure this has all been said and beaten to death, but this is my first try at a mod, and it's been a goal of mine to make this game come to life. I will take the first page of the 15 page outline I've written to describe the game. The premise of the game is an urban-based fighting simulation with different fighting styles to choose from.

Styles and Skills sets out to do what few games have done, but all have tried to do; raise the bar. The game will set out to provide a new and unique experience while providing fast, fun, and skillful gameplay.

SnS will try to offer the player the ability to make their character their own by creating a look and playstyle that is unique to them. To make very gameplay experience custom to each player would make the game stand out on its own.

Styles and Skills will give players the opportunity to show off both their style and skill by providing high-paced martial arts fighting in stylish, cinematic presentation in a game that requires coordination, skill, and understanding of the game’s mechanics.

SnS will provide a platform for a community to converse, have fun, and compete in a way they haven’t been able to before.


Styles and Skills’ atmosphere will draw heavily from the hip-hop/urban culture. I, Halorin, will be making tracks for the background music, and I’m going to be looking for some other independent talent of both rock, hip hop, and other music that would fit into the concept of the game. Clothing will be styled to modern fashion.


I'm currently seeking talent from all areas to help get this game underway. Contact me at Halorin314 on AIM or [email protected] if you are interested in bringing this to life with me.

 

[IchI]

cough" Car Advert"cough

 

[ComradeBadger]

Just wondering, what do you, personally bring to this mod team?

 

[Majestic XII]

Just wondering, what do you, personally bring to this mod team?

Like he said, music (even if its.. hip hop...)

 

[The Dark Elf]

It sounds like just a vehicle to stick loads of music many don't like in

 

[dassbaba]

sounds intresting, but shouldn't music be the least of your concerns?

 

[phantomdesign]

I always turn hte music off.



I just wanted to say that was a poor sales pitch. Everyone has an idea of epic proportions (or at least thinks they do). What really sets yours apart? Why should anyone want to join? Do you personally have the tallent to lead? Is the concept strong enough to make people's efforts worthwhile?

 

[Halorin]

Actually, I was planning on being the lead coder for the mod. I have three years of experience in working with C++, and I know a little about a little with C#, but thanks for trying to rag on me when I was just seeking help.

I was hoping people would be interested because I'm sure people are tired of joining on mods that last for about two months, or are based on anime, or something based off of something else. I want to create an original universe for a game. I want to be able to make people say 'Wow, that looks cool' while they are playing my game.

Like I said, if anyone wants to see what the game will really be about, contact me and I will send you the 15 page Outline I have for it. I'm serious, and I don't appreciate the unconstructive feedback I've gotten. If you don't want to help, don't bother trying to discourage someone, and DON'T POST.

 

[KrazyKlown]

Hey, best of luck Halorin

And don't let the criticism get to you. I got the same when I posted my idea.

Remember that this is a rather popular forum for all things concerning HL, so there are bound to be countless people that will disagree with you. Nevertheless, if you believe in the idea, go for it.

 

[IchI]

I really like the new BMW advert...

cough"can we please have some more information on what the hell u will do when your playing the game rather than how u will be making a new pop idol"cough

Hense why I said car advert....

 

[Halorin]

I'm sorry, Ichi, but I'm not going to fully disclose my 15 page outline on how the game will play to the general public so I can have my gameplay mechanics potentially stolen. If you'd have read, you'd have seen that I do have a very descriptive outline for how the game will play and will show it to anyone who I think is serious about the joining the team. If you'd like to see it, contact me. I'll show you.

You can call my post a car advertisement if you want. I guess that makes you the idiot who doesn't read the fine print.

 

[KrazyKlown]

The worst thing you can do is insult someone. I know it's hard, but you should really keep your cool here. If you don't, people will eat you up.

 

[Halorin]

If Ichi wants to make two posts dedicated at shallow attempts to insult me and my mod, then that's on him for not seeing what my mod has to offer. If I have to go through some insult ritual to get someone to show sincere interest in my mod, then I'm not interested in them. I'm serious. I'm business. It's on Ichi if he wants to call my thread a car ad without taking the time to inquire about the 15 page outline. If I was BS, he'd be able to ask about it and I wouldn't be able to give it to him. It's on him for jumping that gun, and it's on him for being the idiot who didn't read the fine print.

How does this make sense.

"Oh. You took my insults. What's your mod about?"

If you expect someone to tolerate that, you're crazy. I stand firm to the idea that if you aren't interested in look at the outline of my mod that you shouldn't bother posting to be negative. I don't need or want your alternate test run, so save yourself the typing and go without that extra post under your belt please. Thanks.

 

[phantomdesign]

I'm not going to fully disclose my 15 page outline on how the game will play to the general public so I can have my gameplay mechanics potentially stolen.

If someone was actually interested in stealing you ideas, they would have contacted you for the document already.

Like I said, if anyone wants to see what the game will really be about, contact me and I will send you the 15 page Outline I have for it. I'm serious, and I don't appreciate the unconstructive feedback I've gotten. If you don't want to help, don't bother trying to discourage someone, and DON'T POST.

I disagree. General feedback has been quite constructive. The issue is you aren’t selling your MOD any better than any other 15 year old who suddenly has a “wonderful idea.” Don’t say your MOD is great. Show your MOD is great. Why do you need this criticism? You said it yourself.

I was hoping people would be interested because I'm sure people are tired of joining on mods that last for about two months, or are based on anime, or something based off of something else. I want to create an original universe for a game. I want to be able to make people say 'Wow, that looks cool' while they are playing my game.

Every MOD out there is awesome in the mind of the person who conceptualized it. Everyone wants it to be the coolest thing to come along. Why is yours more likely to succeed than the MODs that last for only 2 months? Why is yours better than anime? Why is yours cooler than anything else? These elements that you listed are the same elements that you don’t show (or show the opposite).

What does a great MOD need?

• Vision. What is your basis or vision? An urban-based combat simulator with RPG elements. What many others and I see is two primary themes mashed together to create a game (such as sports cars and medieval weapons). Urban style ninja fighting? Where’s the consistency? I’d rather see baseball bats, 9mm’s, and beaters with polished rims for drive by shootings. I see no vision.
  
• Leadership What elements of leadership do you have to add? According to the first post, you have ZERO experience. People who have any skills significant enough to make a good MOD would always want to make sure their contributions will be used properly. A good leader will have the ability to [1]assign and foresee tasks, [2]organize, collect, find, and distribute resources, [3]make intelligent and wise decisions, [4]be flexible, especially with team members, [5,6,7…] etc. I personally don’t see any of these elements. Additionally your inability to accept, recognize, or acknowledge positive criticism and input from potential members (even if you disagree with it) shows future difficulties.
  
  I’d understand rejecting suggestions to make a racing game, but when someone suggests you need to improve something (such as a sales pitch) you may consider asking for suggestions on how to accomplish that.
  
• Leader’s Contribution What do you (as a leader) bring to this modification? Your original post indicates you will contribute “urban/hip-hop” music. Are you any good? Would anyone want to hear that ___? Creating music has little to do with the skill set necessary for creating a MOD. People want to see (including examples) programming, 3D modeling ,texturing, level design, storyboards, or something that would make the leader as much or more of a contributor than anyone else. Additionally, what existing resources are there? What efforts have you put into the Mod so far?
  
• Selflessness/Flexibility: Is this MOD all about you? A large red flag that caught my attention is that your only contribution you listed was music. I hate to say this (ok, I’m lying), but it looks like you only want something to promote your music. So, your MOD makes it big…meaning you make it big? I don’t think so.
  
  You can even take me for an example. I want to create a racing MOD based on some exotic designs that I’m trying to market. While the concepts well liked by many and many would enjoy the racing game, the truth is that MOD is entirely EGO based. If I want anyone to join my team, I’m going to have to try that much harder. Even with the contribution of top-of-the-line car models with normal maps and everything, why should anyone want to feed my ego? I’m not even thinking about trying to find members yet. My MOD is about having fun and not about marketing my cars, and this is something I would have to show.
  
• Sales Pitch. Can you as a leader “sell” the MOD to the public. The best MOD in the world would suck if no one plays it. “Serious Mod Beginning Development” Might as well be “Most frektacular awesplosive aMODination ever!!11eleven!!one1” or “Fluffy bunnies take over!!!” The title is extremely important when you’re trying to sell something. You may not be able to know a book from it’s cover, but it’s the only basis you have when choosing books. Your Urban basis doesn’t have any supporting features other htan vague references to pop music. Your SnS sounds entirely uninteresting. Yay, we get styles and skills. What sort of styles and skills?
  
• Elements of Success What will make this MOD successful? Why will yours last more than 2 months, let alone 2 weeks? Why would any other talented people consider joining the team? Will people enjoy working on the team? How good of a leader are you? Where will this MOD be in a year? I see many elements pointing towards failure in all these categories.

There’s a lot of other things, but that should get you started. Some of us are actually trying to help, so I suggest you read what I wrote (no matter how much you disagree or dislike it) and them beneath my post rewrite your sales pitch. From there, we can give more critiques and suggestions.

 

[ComradeBadger]

I'm sorry, Ichi, but I'm not going to fully disclose my 15 page outline on how the game will play to the general public so I can have my gameplay mechanics potentially stolen. If you'd have read, you'd have seen that I do have a very descriptive outline for how the game will play and will show it to anyone who I think is serious about the joining the team. If you'd like to see it, contact me. I'll show you.

You can call my post a car advertisement if you want. I guess that makes you the idiot who doesn't read the fine print.

I'd just like to point out something, we can't comment on what we can't see. We haven't seen the designdoc, so we're commenting on the post, what we can see.

It is truely up to you to 'sell' your mod to the general public, get them interested, light a fire in their minds... don't tell them everything, but give away enough to make people think "oooh I want to be a part of this".

Oh, and remember, we are Not here to annoy you, put you down, or otherwise cause discomfort. We are here to help.

Thanks.

 

[IchI]

If you expect someone to tolerate that, you're crazy. I stand firm to the idea that if you aren't interested in look at the outline of my mod that you shouldn't bother posting to be negative. I don't need or want your alternate test run, so save yourself the typing and go without that extra post under your belt please. Thanks.[/QUOTE]

Ok, first. Let me make one thing clear. If you have ever seen a car advert you will know 99% of them have nothing to do with the car at all? that was my point which you seemed to miss. I then replyed with "I like the new BMW advert" and I knew you wouldn't understand it so I blatently just asked for more information.

If Ichi wants to make two posts dedicated at shallow attempts to insult me and my mod, then that's on him for not seeing what my mod has to offer.

I am not misticmeg btw.... for all I know you could have 5 teams all with giant dildos fighting each other walst they rap.

If I have to go through some insult ritual to get someone to show sincere interest in my mod, then I'm not interested in them

No, you just need to give out more information. Exactly like a car advert.

I'm serious. I'm business. It's on Ichi if he wants to call my thread a car ad without taking the time to inquire about the 15 page outline.

Dunno if you noticed, but your 15 page document isn't on this thread...

If I was BS, he'd be able to ask about it and I wouldn't be able to give it to him.

Just because you have a 15 page document it don't make you not bs. Infact been a leader of a mod you will spend hardly any time writing 15 pages. All the design document does is guide you through the process, you have to make all the desissions, you have to make sure people are doing there job, you have to put it all together, you have to make sure you know what everyone is doing and you also need to make sure you know exactly that your team m8s understand the concept by having meetings every now and then.

It's on him for jumping that gun, and it's on him for being the idiot who didn't read the fine print.

Tell me when I jumped the gun? I supose its my fault for you not understanding my car advert thingy, but all I did was make a job about pop idol. Because atm thats what I am thinking about when I think of your mod. I was asking for more information. You can not give it, so obviasly you will not get anywhere with this. I am not getting anywhere with what I am doing here. I am just trying to help and at the same time maybe make a joke.

 

[Halorin]

Alright, see for yourself, then.

http://www.geocities.com/alberthalorin/Styles.doc

Read it over. Tell me what you think.

 

[IchI]

This page is not available.
We're sorry, but this page is currently unavailable for viewing.
If this site belongs to you, please read this help page for more information and assistance.

For general questions see our main help area, or search for other member pages.

I can't open it, your webhost is down.

 

[Halorin]

Geocities is odd like that. You have to open it in a new window and paste the link inside. Sorry about that.

 

[IchI]

Ok, I flicked through your design document and noticed some things straight away. These things set this fighting game apart from others is:

1. Its online
2. You are planning to have 6 men battles
3. You going to have a co-op gameplay
4. You can create your own character
5. It looks like your having a quiet advanced stamina and recovery system

Here are some things that I thought where very common:

1. Only 3 styles.... thats kinda boring, if you want to try and make each character unique you need more, let people choose from about 10/20, making every fighter unpredictable.
2. the vs mode, its obviasly common. Its only a basic 1 vs 1, it would be a little stupid not to have it. but its still common
3. The moves you are targeting atm are very common

Things to me that seem like they could be a problem/boring etc...

1. The 6 man fighting system will not work unless you can create a style of fighting with will be able to interactive with 3/4 people fighting at the same time, I don't know how your going to come up with an idea... infact I do... but I am not going to say because I am using it my self for something. But maybe slow the movments down.... hint hint.... giving people time to counter each one, hint hint.
2. The coop mode seems alright, it could get a little boring chasing AI players though, one thing I have never seen is something like streets of rage online. In my opinion that could be very ****ing kewl if some correctly. Maybe it something you should look into.
3. Stamina could be a problem, people hate not been able to do kewl shit or get things done fast.
4. Watch how much recovery you give people, it could be a down fall.

I will add to it later, kinda busy atm.

 

[Halorin]

Ok, I flicked through your design document and noticed some things straight away. These things set this fighting game apart from others is:

1. Its online
2. You are planning to have 6 men battles
3. You going to have a co-op gameplay
4. You can create your own character
5. It looks like your having a quiet advanced stamina and recovery system

Here are some things that I thought where very common:

1. Only 3 styles.... thats kinda boring, if you want to try and make each character unique you need more, let people choose from about 10/20, making every fighter unpredictable.
2. the vs mode, its obviasly common. Its only a basic 1 vs 1, it would be a little stupid not to have it. but its still common
3. The moves you are targeting atm are very common

Things to me that seem like they could be a problem/boring etc...

1. The 6 man fighting system will not work unless you can create a style of fighting with will be able to interactive with 3/4 people fighting at the same time, I don't know how your going to come up with an idea... infact I do... but I am not going to say because I am using it my self for something. But maybe slow the movments down.... hint hint.... giving people time to counter each one, hint hint.
2. The coop mode seems alright, it could get a little boring chasing AI players though, one thing I have never seen is something like streets of rage online. In my opinion that could be very ****ing kewl if some correctly. Maybe it something you should look into.
3. Stamina could be a problem, people hate not been able to do kewl shit or get things done fast.
4. Watch how much recovery you give people, it could be a down fall.

I will add to it later, kinda busy atm.

Well, the thing is, the three styles will be very, VERY in-depth in terms of combos, attack flow, and countering. Even though there are only around 12 different attack categories, through the use of attack flow, the attacks will be situational. For example, a high heavy punch might be a straight punch to the face in one case, but coming off a roundhouse kick, it'd change to an elbow to keep the momentum of your previous attack. The difference in these two attacks may be different in damage, status effect, and attack flow. By using this chain-linking system, the move list for each fighting style can become rather large. I had planned on having more than three styles, but that will be down the road and long after the first release. I want to do everything right, so I'd rather advance, hold, advance, hold, if you get what I mean.

I didn't put too many hard percentages in with things like stamina, recovery, and adrenaline because it'd take a lot of playtesting to figure those out in a balanced manner.

For the computer controlled players, I'd make sure the maps were big enough to give you some space if you wanted, but small enough to keep the action consistent. Also, these CPTs aren't going to be running away from any fights. They will be quite aggressive.

To handle multiple opponenents there will be the Freeform fighting stance for each style, so that way you aren't locked on to focus on only one person. You'll be quicker on your feet in this mode, and with skill, will be able to handle more than one foe at once. You'll still want to focus to have access to more moves and combos, though. It'll be balanced well with extensive testing.

 

[Halorin]

I'm not going to go into your design doc, but your attitude in this post alone is certainly a negative example. When I said that it was an alternate test, I was not referring to insults, I was referring to criticisms. Judging from the coherence of your other posts, I trust you can discern the difference. If a mod leader, in this case you, takes the criticisms in stride and attempts to maturely refute them, that's the best sign, just as turning the thread into flame wars is not.

No need to beat a dead horse to have the last word. I put my cards on the table. Look at them or don't, please. Ichi gave me suggestions and pointers about my outline, and I responded. I don't see a point or reason for you to bring up the beginning portion of this thread. Thanks.

 

[PinFX]

http://www.sloperama.com/advice/lesson24.htm
Skip over to #12, stupid paranoia.
Also burning bridges is bad, especially when you have no other bridges building.

 

[Halorin]

And I don't see a reason for you to be an asshole. Thanks.

And I don't see a reason for you to be one, either. You went about two or three posts I've made in the thread back to bring up a moot point. Congratulations. You went past the actual part of the thread that had constructive conversation to try to condescendingly bash me about how you disapprove of my etiquette. Way to stay on someone's case unnecassarily.

 

[Halorin]

Try taking your own advice, heh. Don't make a hypocrite of yourself, guy.

 

[Teddy]

I don't think this forum is the best place to post looking for help for you mod.. most of the people in here are already working on a mod, or are too bitter and cycnical about mods to seriously thinking about joining one..

I know we didn't get any responses from our efforts in this forum.

Tho it is kinda funny to watch the mean mods insult every mod idea that's posted up here.... (note: i said 'kinda')

 

[ComradeBadger]

Ok, everyone needs to cool off in this thread.

1. We are not insulting anyone. We don't aim to. Ever.
2. You have to understand that many of us have much more experience in developement than you can shake a stick at
3. We have been around the HL2 modding scene for a very long time, and have seen a lot of ideas


But regardless. I shall read over the design document myself today, and give my critique on that.

 

[blahblahblah]

Here is a serious idea.

Run your mod like you would run a business. Running a mod like a business would show people that you are serious about it. Don't know how to run a real business? Here are some generic pointers.

1) The 5 P's. Proper Planning Prevents Poor Performance. Business die by poor planning, so do mods. Don't just write a 15 page design document, completely flesh out the mod idea in every aspect. Not just planning about the mod itself, but how it will be managed, what happens if a change needs to be made, etc.

2) Listen to what the market wants. If people are complaining about your product, you better change it fast. Same thing goes with a mod, if people are saying your mod is unoriginal, you better get rid of it like the plague.

3) The leader knows all. Well not all, but appears to know all. Example, the CEO of Intel, knows something about every part of his company, whether its engineering, finance, marketing or production. He may not know every single detail about those departments, but he is familar with enough about his company to make good business decisions. Same thing should go with a mod leader. The mod leader should be familiar with all aspects of making a mod, whether its coding, mapping, or modeling/texturing.

4) Public Relations is everything. Example, ATI, through good PR was able to completely negate accusations about optimizing their drivers through an open discuss chat with one of their chief engineers. As a mod team, the same thing needs to be practiced. If you disagree with somebody, don't flame them, try to address their concerns. The minute you flame somebody, you loose credibility by anybody who reads that post. Properly marketing a mod is nearly as important as making the mod itself.

Those are just some generic pointers, but if a mod where to try to operate under those principles, I bet that mod would go someplace.

 

[Halorin]

Here is a serious idea.

Run your mod like you would run a business. Running a mod like a business would show people that you are serious about it. Don't know how to run a real business? Here are some generic pointers.

1) The 5 P's. Proper Planning Prevents Poor Performance. Business die by poor planning, so do mods. Don't just write a 15 page design document, completely flesh out the mod idea in every aspect. Not just planning about the mod itself, but how it will be managed, what happens if a change needs to be made, etc.

2) Listen to what the market wants. If people are complaining about your product, you better change it fast. Same thing goes with a mod, if people are saying your mod is unoriginal, you better get rid of it like the plague.

3) The leader knows all. Well not all, but appears to know all. Example, the CEO of Intel, knows something about every part of his company, whether its engineering, finance, marketing or production. He may not know every single detail about those departments, but he is familar with enough about his company to make good business decisions. Same thing should go with a mod leader. The mod leader should be familiar with all aspects of making a mod, whether its coding, mapping, or modeling/texturing.

4) Public Relations is everything. Example, ATI, through good PR was able to completely negate accusations about optimizing their drivers through an open discuss chat with one of their chief engineers. As a mod team, the same thing needs to be practiced. If you disagree with somebody, don't flame them, try to address their concerns. The minute you flame somebody, you loose credibility by anybody who reads that post. Properly marketing a mod is nearly as important as making the mod itself.

Those are just some generic pointers, but if a mod where to try to operate under those principles, I bet that mod would go someplace.

I appreciate the advice. I really do. I think my outline fleshed out the idea of the mod, how it would play, and what level of skill the game's going to go for. However, until I can form a team, it's going to be hard to set up any real schedule without having to heavily modify once I start getting members. I haven't quite gotten to the planning stage, or the PR stage, but when I do, I'll keep all of what you said in mind. Thanks.