Seriously the hitboxes

[BRODIEMAN2k4]

At first i didn't find it that big a deal and it only did it on certain servers

But now I know it's the game, Valve Seriously needs to fix this

I mean , Valve wanted CS:S as the multiplayer, they should have atleast have it work right?

 

[Mujuro]

What exactly do you guys find wrong with these hitboxes, and give examples...

 

[Sparta]

Hitboxes work fine for me. Show us some examples

 

[sublidieminal]

They kind of lag, it's hard to get a picture of it but once I remember seeing someone die in a server and there was a blood splooge in the air behind him about 1.5 feet. Id say average ping in the server was about 62.

 

[poseyjmac]

yea all the hitboxes are lagged. its kinda like the effect when a lagged person shoots a non lagged person in hl. the lagged person sees on his screen that the shot connects. but the unlagged guy doesn't feel it till the lagged guy's packets get to the server and to the unlagged guy. except this is all the time, and its for everyone.

 

[chapel]

Its not the hitboxes. Its the lag in the system. You might not think it would be because youre at 60 or below, but its called Client Prediction.

With Client Prediction the server gives equal power to all clients, even high ping vs low ping. If a high ping person sees a lower ping person, they both start shooting, although the lower ping person can see where the hp person is faster than the otherway around, the hp person only sees where the lp person last was based on the delay between the server and the two clients. This effect will mean that the hp person can kill you on his screen when youre out in the open, but on your client you are behind the box, but you end up dead where you were standing out in the open.

I hope that makes sense, its not the hitboxes, its the client prediction that amplifies the lag.

 

[KiNG]

dont confuse hitboxes with netcode. hitboxes are perfectly fine.

look at this thread on steam forums.

http://www.steampowered.com/forums/...4&highlight=best+clcmdrate+clupdaterate+rates

it explains the problem very well, here is what i suggest if u have a pretty stable connection.

rate 20000
cl_rate 20000
cl_cmdrate 101
cl_updaterate 60 (my avg fps)
cl_smooth 0
cl_interp 0.05
fps_max 101

with these rates it feels like 1.6 to me, hope your luck is as good as mine.

oh and read through a few pages of that thread i found it very useful and informative.

 

[Mujuro]

Its not the hitboxes. Its the lag in the system. You might not think it would be because youre at 60 or below, but its called Client Prediction.

With Client Prediction the server gives equal power to all clients, even high ping vs low ping. If a high ping person sees a lower ping person, they both start shooting, although the lower ping person can see where the hp person is faster than the otherway around, the hp person only sees where the lp person last was based on the delay between the server and the two clients. This effect will mean that the hp person can kill you on his screen when youre out in the open, but on your client you are behind the box, but you end up dead where you were standing out in the open.

I hope that makes sense, its not the hitboxes, its the client prediction that amplifies the lag.

Very well said mate, quoted for emphasis.

 

[Chaops]

Regardless. I dont pay for cable so that the DSL/56K line can get the same net ratios as me. If I have 30 ping, which I always do, I want to have 30 ping connected hits. There is no reason why I should be able to unload on someones head with 7 shots of a deagle and not kill them to about the 5th shell (sometimes not even a headshot). I don't think I am the only one that thinks this way either. Just my personal opinion though.

 

[Asuka]

Its not the hitboxes. Hitboxes have always been fine 1.6 css cz. Its ether your rates/net/aim. Period. There is that rare time once every 2 months a shot was suppose to hit but didnt. but wtf i hate all these people complaning about hitboxes. When they know nothing about it.

 

[marshmallow]

The only time I notice something very different when compared to 1.6 or 1.5 is when someone is moving side to side -- it becomes incredibly difficult to hit them, it feels like bullets go through them.

In most other instances I have no complaints.

 

[Jertsy]

dont confuse hitboxes with netcode. hitboxes are perfectly fine.
look at this thread on steam forums.
http://www.steampowered.com/forums/...4&highlight=best+clcmdrate+clupdaterate+rates

cl_rate 20000
cl_cmdrate 101
cl_updaterate 60 (my avg fps)
cl_smooth 0
cl_interp 0.05
fps_max 101

Where do you put these?

thanks.

 

[Robskiwarrior]

The only time I notice something very different when compared to 1.6 or 1.5 is when someone is moving side to side -- it becomes incredibly difficult to hit them, it feels like bullets go through them.

In most other instances I have no complaints.

Possibly coz your a crap shot??

No in all seriousness, see here

Q-I got hit from 2 feet behind me! Whats up with that?
A-The hitboxes in CS:S are somewhat laggy. Hopefully, they will be updated or changed in a future version. For now, try to play on a server with a low ping.

http://www.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=155551


Its just one of the things that happens during change... knowing what its like to develop games its hard to get everything right first time, best thing we can do is post constructive criticism and help them bring it up to a better standard.

 

[Fletch]

Where do you put these?

thanks.

Press the tiddle (`) key to bring the console up and type them in there. Make sure you have "developer console" enabled in the advanced Keyboard options if it doesnt appear.

 

[poseyjmac]

Its not the hitboxes. Its the lag in the system. You might not think it would be because youre at 60 or below, but its called Client Prediction.

With Client Prediction the server gives equal power to all clients, even high ping vs low ping. If a high ping person sees a lower ping person, they both start shooting, although the lower ping person can see where the hp person is faster than the otherway around, the hp person only sees where the lp person last was based on the delay between the server and the two clients. This effect will mean that the hp person can kill you on his screen when youre out in the open, but on your client you are behind the box, but you end up dead where you were standing out in the open.

I hope that makes sense, its not the hitboxes, its the client prediction that amplifies the lag.

technically, the hitboxes ARE lagging behind. but obviously its because of the lag. hl didn't suffer from this problem nearly as bad as it does in cS:Sh though.

 

[Vidrio]

sv_cheats 1
thirdperson
sv_showhitboxes

thirdperson is a bit buggy, but u can see the hitboxes, and when I did it, they looked fine.
Its lag.

 

[kungfucheez]

Yeah, I changed my cmd rates and all that and it worked fine except the one problem is that most servers now just give me high pings, most are over 300 and I have a stable cable connection. I dont know if its becuase ive chnaged around all my rates or if its actually the server itself

 

[Uh-Oh]

Yeah, there is some severe hitbox lagging. I'm with the guys that think a person who pays for high spend internet should get his "true" ping and not some shitty compensation for people with 56K users. In it's current form, the gameplay can become quite frustrating...

If you spectate players, you can see ALOT of "lag-kills". Best exemples are with people sniping with AWPs.. you'll see them hit other players 0,5 seconds later and still get the hit.

 

[Bait]

This problem is most noticable when a person is side strafing. The hitbox lags to the side of the model as the model moves to the side. It's really ridiculous. I've seen some of the worst possible shots ever happen that result in a headshot all due to the fact the person was side stepping out of the field of fire. It is a problem, and I hope Valve fixes it up.

 

[DuB]

The hit-boxes cannot lag!
If you experience lag on whatever in-game, then it's down to your latency...
The hit boxes are hardcoded (so to speak). You may have lag - but the hit boxes can't!
Saying the hit boxes lag, is like saying... dunno... the models lag.

 

[smsKONG]

dont confuse hitboxes with netcode. hitboxes are perfectly fine.

look at this thread on steam forums.

http://www.steampowered.com/forums/...4&highlight=best+clcmdrate+clupdaterate+rates

it explains the problem very well, here is what i suggest if u have a pretty stable connection.

rate 20000
cl_rate 20000
cl_cmdrate 101
cl_updaterate 60 (my avg fps)
cl_smooth 0
cl_interp 0.05
fps_max 101

with these rates it feels like 1.6 to me, hope your luck is as good as mine.

oh and read through a few pages of that thread i found it very useful and informative.

For starters yes I agree the problem isn't the hitboxes, the problem lies with players own settings and the netcode. However different settings work better for some and worse for others- so just posting up those settings isn't really helpful....

my advice to anyone would be to use net_graph 3 and use the highest rates you can without getting choke

(also cl_smooth controls how you handle other peoples lost packets and fps_max is very buggy for some people....so again folks use whats best for you in this scenario).

So basically get your console up and methodically alter the settings giving a few minutes for everything to settle down between changes, find whats best for you, and remember- the netcode is a bit fubar at the mo so you probably won't get it perfect. Give it some time tho and things will get better.

(also remember when you're playing across the net- there will always be a delay factor that has to be dealt with somehow..)

 

[KiNG]

those rates have helped everyone that i know with a fast stable connection. and if one were to look in the thread i provided they would be able to read what rates would be best for thier connection.

the rates i provided are definatly not for everyone, i think i hinted at that.

 

[smsKONG]

those rates have helped everyone that i know with a fast stable connection. and if one were to look in the thread i provided they would be able to read what rates would be best for thier connection.

the rates i provided are definatly not for everyone, i think i hinted at that.

I realise what you were getting at, so I wasn't trying to flame. I just wanted to stress how subjective these rates are; dependant on your connection (especially as the term fast stable connection is pretty ambiguous and can be interpreted in many ways by many people). And to stress that regardless of your rates and connection you may still encounter problems due to the nature of the netcode and the limits on server customisation/optimisation at the moment.

And yes, peeps should definitely check out the thread on steampowered- it looks like a really time consuming affair but if you've spent any time on the steam forums then you should already be good at skimming past the wisecracks and flames, which leaves a couple of pages of interesting stuff everyone should be aware of before they go slating the hitboxes

 

[Uh-Oh]

So basically get your console up and methodically alter the settings giving a few minutes for everything to settle down between changes, find whats best for you, and remember- the netcode is a bit fubar at the mo so you probably won't get it perfect. Give it some time tho and things will get better.

(also remember when you're playing across the net- there will always be a delay factor that has to be dealt with somehow..)

2 things are wrong about this. Don't take it personally, it's not your fault.

First, Valve needs to fix this whole lag issue. The users shouldn't, and won't, "methodically alter the settings". Why? Pretty simple, on a "difficulty factor"; 1 being easiest, 10 being hardest, posting on a forum is at 4. I'd say the average CS player's "computer skills" are gonna be at around 3, and playing with a "console" is at about 6.

Second, "playing over the net will cause delays". That is the whole definition of lag. Delays = latency.. and a player's ping is his "lag" put into a quantitive delay, measured in seconds. So, a ping of 500 means you have about half a second of lag (I might be mistaken, but I don't think so). So, a player who has below 100, means a 0.1 or lower delay between the time the server sends him the info, and the time his computer registers the info.

So, like in almost ALL well network coded games (like the previous half-life engine), a guy with a ping of 50, is gonna get the "right info".

The models (and hitboxes, since the 2 are indisociable (sp)) are indeed "lagging". The problem is, what you see on your end of the game, is not what is really happening. The only place where it counts, is on the server. Right now, the models we are seeing on our computer screens are not at their true location. The "real" models are off by X amount of time, henceforth they are off by X amount of space. That is why you can shoot a guy and not hit him, you are shooting at a client side model, wich is not at the server side model location.

Anyways, Valve NEEDS to fix this. We are not suppose to alter the default network commands (except for true tweaking, like on the Half-life 1 engine). It should be optional, not obligatory.

Just give em time.

 

[Grand Architect]

In short we're shooting at ghosts.

 

[AgentSmith]

You can read the referenced thread and all these comments but the fact remains that accuracy of hit detection is terrible in CS:S. Tweaking rates and editing configs is well beyond the average user and with the prediction CS forces on all of us so Valve can whore a few more copies to dial up users the fact is that the netcode is the issue. The game should auto adjust these settings like every other MP game does (most of which are being taxed far more than the basic CSS does with its small maps and low player counts), editing configs is BS for a modern game and not the kind of next generation engine Valve touted.

 

[umop]

What he is essentially saying is true, the netcode isn't written as good as the old HL because of the simple fact that you have to aim BEHIND moving players usually. When players are still the hitboxes are absolutely perfect, very well done. The problem comes in to play when the players move and you try to shoot them

 

[Deljron]

I played css over LAN last night for the first time with 8 pple and it ran great 8) had lots of fun, hit what I aimed for unlike playing online. I'll try the tweaks in this thread and see if I can get it running online as good as over lan with my 1500/256 connection and 15-20ms pings to my local servers. Up until now my online css exp has been laggy as hell with high fps and low ping.

Gfx look great

 

[Deljron]

ok an update.

I put the figures king suggested into css and now its running sweet 8)

wow playing with a 15ms ping in net_graph 3 to my local cs servers :O best day cs:s online ever for me

so smooth now.