Sheep marching into Oblivion

[Tagaziel]

We all were subjected to the hype and brainforcing of the Bethesda Softworks marketing machine. Time for a bit of a recap, courtesy of Bradylama, an NMA reporter:

Text-only version for download

Formatted for HTML, on NMA

Have fun reading. Unsettling lecture.

 

[Krynn72]

I read about 3/4 of it and got bored. Its a ****ing company trying to make money. No shit they are going to stop people from trash talking their shit on their website. Hes just pissed off that Bethesda doesn't give a damn about him. Heres a fun fact... no business ever gives a shit about anyone. If you are making trouble for them on their website and message boards then they will tell you gtfo.

Hes just a disappointed fan who was told to gtfo by a company and became a whiney bitch.

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

Can't wait until Bethesda makes that Fallout sequel Im sure it'll be tons of fun

 

[ktimekiller]

wait, that is retarded long, summary?

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

Summary:

I hate Bethesda. Alot. I don't want them making my fallout sequel. So im going to whine about it. The end.

Also somewhere in there we find out Bethesda is actually ruled by none other than Satan. Atleast thats what I got from it.

 

[French Ninja]

I see enough of these whiners at Bethesda's forums. :angry:

 

[Aenama]

Oblivion was a HUGE letdown...I spent $70 on the CE....

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

This guy is completley right. And no, I'm not being sarcastic.

 

[Tagaziel]

Weird, I haven't expected this, especially here, where people are supposed to not be sheep.

Sure, Bethesda is a company, but one of the few that treat estabilished fanbases like crap and dumb down games - their own games, to be honest.

Hes just a disappointed fan who was told to gtfo by a company and became a whiney bitch.

It's not just him. The Codex, who got blacklisted for posting a true, unhyped review of Oblivion, Star Trek Gaming, who was screwed over with the release of Legacy, Daggerfall and Arena fans, Morrowind fans... this is not a minority of the fanbase and whiney bitching, this is simply a wake up call to not believe the hype.

The biggest problem is that somewhere in it's history, from a good game developer Bethesda has turned into a money generating game developer, at the same time losing the people who worked on the original TES and screwing over their fans.

This is not a hate article - it's a rundown of Bethesda's history, as neutral as possible - just an honest presentatio of facts, notice how Brady distances himself from the subject.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Weird, I haven't expected this, especially here, where people are supposed to not be sheep.

Sure, Bethesda is a company, but one of the few that treat estabilished fanbases like crap and dumb down games - their own games, to be honest.



It's not just him. The Codex, who got blacklisted for posting a true, unhyped review of Oblivion, Star Trek Gaming, who was screwed over with the release of Legacy, Daggerfall and Arena fans, Morrowind fans... this is not a minority of the fanbase and whiney bitching, this is simply a wake up call to not believe the hype.

Not to mention they way they treat the modding cummunity. They have given barely any tools to modders, and look at Bethesdas shitty DCLs. Nobody wants a crappy tower in the middle of nowhere, we want new quests that are actaully fun and creative.

 

[Shadow-warrior]

Can't wait until Bethesda makes that Fallout sequel Im sure it'll be tons of fun

Oh I'm sure it will be fun and cool and everything else simplified and dumbed down ...and also lead an army of angry Fallout fans to descend on the Bethesda offices with chainsaws and pickaxes. :sniper:

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

Oh I'm sure it will be fun and cool and everything else simplified and dumbed down ...and also lead an army of angry Fallout fans to descend on the Bethesda offices with chainsaws and pickaxes. :sniper:

Either that or upon playing it the angry fans will spontaneously combust.

 

[Reginald]

I spent 34 quid on Oblivion CE. I would have happily spent 50, the amount of enjoyment I got out of it. And I wasn't even playing on full graphics, nor did I complete the main story. I'm even considering buying the new expansion pack, The Shivering Isles, because just the screenshots make me want to play the game again.

If you don't like a company, or a game, just stop moaning and don't buy their stuff/the game.

Play games that you do like, like The Sims or... Halo. *shrug*

:angel:

 

[Kyorisu]

Oblivion is a great game, granted it needs a few mods to make it re playable but theres a modding community for that. Some games are simple one play and your done.

I will agree on the hype issue, they went too far with the Radiant AI. Radiant my arse your following a repeating script. Another thing that bugged is the ability to speak to anyone even when you have nothing to talk about. Games like Gothic cover this by making the NPC say a single line "I'm busy" and not allow discussion to take place.

 

[IonizeMyAtoms]

Sheep? Because people genuinely enjoy a game? Wow, I had no idea that I have put so many hours into a game I don't even really like!
They're a company. They want to make money. They screw people over, like many a company tend to do. Instead of bitching about a damn video game company, the author should have written about a corporation that actually does damage to the world. What a waste of time.

 

[Tagaziel]

Sheep? Because people genuinely enjoy a game? Wow, I had no idea that I have put so many hours into a game I don't even really like!
They're a company. They want to make money. They screw people over, like many a company tend to do. Instead of bitching about a damn video game company, the author should have written about a corporation that actually does damage to the world. What a waste of time.

Bethesda is doing damage to the gaming market. The methods they employ (censorship, screwing over fansites and estabilished fanbases) are extremely harmful. Why? Simple.

Our lack of reaction will have consequences - Bethesda will continue to screw over fans, franchises and censor and blacklist sites that dare not suck up to them. This is not a common practice in the industry, especially for developers. However, if we ignore it and don't react, this will become commonplace and destructive to quality as a whole.

Sure, it's easy to shrug it off with a "all companies are evil" and "it's just a game" dismissing people who actually care about the industry and quality as nutjobs. Just don't complain when these methods catch up with you.

It's interesting to find a contrast between reactions on dedicated RPG boards and HL2.net.

Oh, and if you're offended by the title, then you clearly don't listen to Pink Floyd.

 

[ChiChi]

It's always the same. Whenever a company changes something, fans and the "silent masses" hate it. I do think that Morrowind is better, except for a few improvements that Oblivion did(combat especially), but Oblivion isn't a crap game by any means.

 

[Krynn72]

How about we let people decide if they like the game? Instead of you telling us whether or not to like it.

I enjoyed Oblivion. Granted it wasnt what it could be, or what i wanted it to be, but it was fun none-the-less. A lot of your argument is based on over-reactions to lesser things. Its not like Bethesda is the only one to change their games to better reach a larger consumer base. You are an idiot if you think they are going to loose out on money to please you guys. What makes you so much better than Average Joe gamer? They can please more people, and make more money by doing what they are doing. Just because they ignored you and your elitist gamer community doesn't mean the company is evil, it means they are smart enough to broaden their reach. Learn how the business world works and maybe you will understand. But I doubt anything will turn you from your unwarranted hate of Bethesda.

The fact that Bethesda ever had their developers talking with the community is a great thing. Most companies do their own thing without ever listening to their fanbase. So once Bethesda starts talking to consumers you guys jump all over them when they do anything wrong.

Suck it up, and get over it. Find a new game. Find a new developer. Accept the idea that the next game will suck (whether or not it does, doesnt matter, because you guys will hate it anyways). Go play the old fallout games, and enjoy them... because you will never ever be satisfied with a new fallout game.

 

[Jintor]

You realise if he goes back to the old games, he won't be satisfied with them, either?

 

[Krynn72]

Oh yeah...

Just give up then. Go ride a bicycle.

 

[Tagaziel]

Oh yeah...

Just give up then. Go ride a bicycle.

It's not about just Oblivion. It's about the fact that they dumb down their games, which is highly harmful to the overall quality of design of the industry. Not to mention that the methods they use are highly questionable and offensive to gamers.

 

[Jintor]

It's not about just Oblivion. It's about the fact that they dumb down their games, which is highly harmful to the overall quality of design of the industry. Not to mention that the methods they use are highly questionable and offensive to gamers.

Eh?

What's this questionable and offensive method?

 

[Tagaziel]

Censorship, screwing over estabilished fanbases and lore, blacklisting sites... something few developers would dare to do, because it alienates fans and damages the company's name.

 

[Warbie]

bah, I enjoyed Oblivion for what it was. For 20-30 hours I got to be a vampire and steal things, and that's enough for me. I couldn't give a crap about lore, just whether the game was fun.

It's understandable that fans become annoyed if a game strays from it's roots (there are plenty of game series that I loved that have gone in an awful direction), but hey, deal with it.

 

[Tagaziel]

Okay. How about Valve introducing cyber clowns with explosive tomatoes as a new, dangerous enemy in Episode 3? Hey, who gives a crap about coherency, it's teh funneh!!!!1!!!111!

 

[Beerdude26]

Okay. How about Valve introducing cyber clowns with explosive tomatoes as a new, dangerous enemy in Episode 3? Hey, who gives a crap about coherency, it's teh funneh!!!!1!!!111!al things, and that's enough for me. I couldn't give a crap about lore, just whether the game was fun.

It's understandable that fans become annoyed if a game strays from it's roots (there are plenty of game series that I loved that have gone in an awful direction), but hey, deal with it.

I'd LOL and then mod it to remove it and then anonymously put the mod on the internets. If they then censor that code, I would just get a cracked version of the game. Devs shoot themselves in the foot with this kind of crap, that's the only thing you have to tell them

 

[smwScott]

How about you stop buying their shitty games? Works for me.

 

[IonizeMyAtoms]

Oh, and if you're offended by the title, then you clearly don't listen to Pink Floyd.

I was responding to this

Weird, I haven't expected this, especially here, where people are supposed to not be sheep.

And stop being so dramatic. It's a VIDEO GAME. It's too bad the average person didn't put this much thought into things of actual importance. Go read a book

 

[boglito]

Oblivion has a good engine powering it, but the leveling-system takes all the fun out of the game. Glad I didn't buy it.

.bog.

 

[VictimOfScience]

It's too bad the average person didn't put this much thought into things of actual importance.

My thoughts exactly. If more youth cared about their local governing bodies and the policies of this world that actually do some real injustice, maybe we wouldn't be stuck in a such a sad state. Instead they bitch about videogames and the ruthless people behind them that have no interest in satisfying their fans because they don't want to make money...:rolling:

Obama is right, man, put down the f_cking controller.

Oblivion has a good engine powering it, but the leveling-system takes all the fun out of the game. Glad I didn't buy it.

.bog.

You might want to talk to Francesco about his mod that takes care of most if not all of the leveling complaints with Oblivion. :thumbs:

 

[Tagaziel]

My thoughts exactly. If more youth cared about their local governing bodies and the policies of this world that actually do some real injustice, maybe we wouldn't be stuck in a such a sad state. Instead they bitch about videogames and the ruthless people behind them that have no interest in satisfying their fans because they don't want to make money...

Obama is right, man, put down the f_cking controller.

Do you know how old Bradylama is or what he does for a living or what organizations he's a member of? No.

Awareness starts from your backyard. You cannot do anything useful concerning the government if you are unable to do anything about a company that treats it's consumers like dirt.

 

[smwScott]

Do you know how old Bradylama is or what he does for a living or what organizations he's a member of? No.

Awareness starts from your backyard. You cannot do anything useful concerning the government if you are unable to do anything about a company that treats it's consumers like dirt.

Quick google search says he's a "Beat Box Criminal in the Gamingforce Interactive Forums". Wow ... amazing times we live in. I hope to one day tell my children that I was there when Bradylama insulted Bethesda Inc. on a video game forum.

Seriously man, this is trivial shit. If you don't like Bethesda, stop buying their games. They don't owe you anything and they're allowed to take whatever aggressive PR measures they please - if you don't like it don't buy it.

 

[Tagaziel]

Seriously man, this is trivial shit. If you don't like Bethesda, stop buying their games. They don't owe you anything and they're allowed to take whatever aggressive PR measures they please - if you don't like it don't buy it.

This is not trivial. This is harm done to the industry. When several game developers with a lot of experience state that this is harmful to the industry, I tend to believe them.

I see I chose the wrong place to look for people that actually care about quality.

 

[Krynn72]

Thats bullshit that it is harmful to the insdustry. The only people who it is harmful to is the minority of gamers who are hardcore gamers. They simplify their game so that many more people can enjoy it. Many more people playing video games = better for the industry.

The only thing you can really say that they did bad was to shun certain fansites. But really, you cant blame them for that, its just normal PR. Try going into a store nearby and walk around in side telling their customers that the stuff sold there is shit. I bet you will get kicked out. Same thing.

 

[Aenama]

I was pissed that they removed all they ways you could customize arnor like in Morrowind.
and Im sure as heck aint a hard core RPG gamer

 

[Tagaziel]

Thats bullshit that it is harmful to the insdustry. The only people who it is harmful to is the minority of gamers who are hardcore gamers. They simplify their game so that many more people can enjoy it. Many more people playing video games = better for the industry.

The only thing you can really say that they did bad was to shun certain fansites. But really, you cant blame them for that, its just normal PR. Try going into a store nearby and walk around in side telling their customers that the stuff sold there is shit. I bet you will get kicked out. Same thing.

Yes, so selling crap instead of quality is better?

What Bethesda is doing *isn't* normal PR. It's covering up for a completely screwed up, overhyped game. Normal Pr is acknowledging mistakes and fixing them. VALVe is doing normal PR, heck, even EALA does normal PR, although it took months of work to make them redesign the Pitbull.

Normal PR includes taking note of errors and working to fix them, as well as getting over it with sites that take the dare to point out the wrong in their games.

What Bethesda does?

Censors posts and replaces titles of the blacklisted sites with wordlifters (eg. RPG Codex turns into I'm a devoted Oblivion fan), heck, even the word fanboy gets censored. Forces their fansites to remove what they deem "infringing" material. It's like Gabe Newell demanded of HL2.net to remove all references to his weight because it's offensive and infringing.

Next, the simplification. I'm sure you would LOVE to see Half-Life 3: Cake Pie monsters where you shoot clowns with a layza Gravity Gun. Hey, simplifying games to reach a wider audience (underage kids in this case) is good, right?

I'm playing through Albion as I write this. Albion is a relatively simple RPG, the character development is automated to a degree, and you only control the progress of their combat skills and spell learning. HOWEVER. The game has a stunning storyline, as well as coherent and well designed setting, which withstands critical assessment - the culture, geography, economy are laid out and well designed. Characters, both regular NPCs and team members are deep, believable and interesting. Gameplay is a bit rough, but then again, it's a 1995 game.

Now, 12 years later, where are we? Oblivion, a game with good graphics and dungeon mechanics with shallow characters, completely screwed up plot and contradictive setting (in regards to earlier games) is hailed the "RPG of the year".

Albion, a 12 year old game surpasses TES IV in terms of lore complexity and setting coherence. Elements which don't have to be explored to finish the game or understand the plot. Even Fallout, ten year old, is superior.

You think this is allright?

 

[Krynn72]

I dont like it, no. But what you dont see is that they are making more money and getting their game to more people. Thats good for them and good for the industry. Your argument that it is otherwise is based off your narrow view that you and your fansites are the majority of Bethesda's consumer base.

And if you want to talk about bad PR, there are much better companies. Ubisoft anyone? Blazing Angels has recieved one patch that literally did nothing. They shipped a combat flying simulator that had NO SUPPORT for joysticks. They said they would fix it in a patch, and claimed that they did, but only one joystick worked after it. They havent yet released another patch to fix it, and complaints and pleas for a fix have fallen on completely deaf ears.

Bethesda on the other hand fixes bugs, adds more content, interacts with the community (even if this includes banning annoying ass bitchers like your friends) they still interact and talk with people on their boards. Not only this but the have some of the best support for modders ever. Bethesda has helped put modding into the mainstream and, imo, they can **** up all they want because with their mod scene support players can rebuild it anyway they want.

Guess what. People liked Oblivion the way it was. Other people didnt. The people that did enjoy it, enjoyed it as it was. People who didnt, fixed it. Bethesda is doing a service to the industry, in more ways than one. You just cant see it because you are brainwashed by some elitist gaming group who thinks that they can do and say whatever they want.

 

[Jintor]

I'm agreeing more with Krynn on this one.

 

[Tagaziel]

I dont like it, no. But what you dont see is that they are making more money and getting their game to more people. Thats good for them and good for the industry. Your argument that it is otherwise is based off your narrow view that you and your fansites are the majority of Bethesda's consumer base.

Again, simplification of games is good?

Simplification leads to the games being more similiar. With similiarity, the need to buy games decreases, as you get the same game with a different paintjob. This will lead to a dramatic fall in sales and a crash of the market. And bankrupcy.

And if you want to talk about bad PR, there are much better companies. Ubisoft anyone? Blazing Angels has recieved one patch that literally did nothing. They shipped a combat flying simulator that had NO SUPPORT for joysticks. They said they would fix it in a patch, and claimed that they did, but only one joystick worked after it. They havent yet released another patch to fix it, and complaints and pleas for a fix have fallen on completely deaf ears.

Yet a majority of titles from Ubisoft do not need patches of any kind. That's called "quality design".

Bethesda on the other hand fixes bugs, adds more content, interacts with the community (even if this includes banning annoying ass bitchers like your friends) they still interact and talk with people on their boards. Not only this but the have some of the best support for modders ever. Bethesda has helped put modding into the mainstream and, imo, they can **** up all they want because with their mod scene support players can rebuild it anyway they want.

Interact as in "ignore people who point out the mishaps and ban them", censor a lot of material on the boards. Rip people off with forcing them to pay for content they initially cut from the game due to time constraints and released as a "cheap" plugin.

Introversion is a much smaller scale developer, and they release FREE patches with cut content without ripping off the gamers.

As for support... I'll get a statement from a devoted Elder Scrolls fan concerning "support".

Not to mention that you seem to be forgetting that it's the developer's role to provide a good game, not the fans'.

Guess what. People liked Oblivion the way it was. Other people didnt. The people that did enjoy it, enjoyed it as it was. People who didnt, fixed it.

Yes, it's widely known that fans released giant patches to create the game they were supposed to get:

I present to you my complete list of Developer Quotes hyping Oblivion, along with my rebuttals after having played it.


[Kathode] "All screenshots we've released are 100% in game showing stuff we've already got implemented. We haven't done any special poses or anything like that, with the exception of magazine covers."

[Vee] Except dynamic shadows was taken out, and, you know, the fact that the E3 trailer was showing stuff that was probably never even intended to be in the final game anyway, but sure, whatever you say!



[MrSmileyFaceDude] "I'm sorry, but what part of "without losing our hardcore rpg fans" don't you understand?"

[Vee] You keep using that phrase. I do not think it means what you think it means.


[Slateman] "Each of the faction lines in this game have plots and quests to much greater depth over MW. Quality, not quantity."

[Vee] Yeah, those gang wars that comprise the Fighters Guild and Mages Guild questlines are real super.


[MrSmileyFaceDude] "I know you don't want to hear it, but you're just going to have to trust us that the dialogue is better than Morrowind's."

[Vee] I hear the Fighters Guild is recruiting again. Not bad work for some folks.


[Todd] "As you play, you start to figure out what you can do with these NPCs, and how you can influence their behavior, and when doing a quest, it really comes into play. A simple 'get the diamond from that guy...' quest can be done in hundreds of ways now."

[Vee] "Quest-Popup: Turentias Villias has the diamond. I need to kill him and take it."


[VSXX] "We have everything from mice to moles to crickets. The most fearsome you have ever seen even! You thought sleeping at night with a singing cricket outside your window was bad. You wait till you meet the one that plays a 14 piece drum set outside your window."

[Vee] huh?


[Pete] "Honestly, and this is just my opinion, I think the hardcore RPG guys are going to love what we have in store for them in Oblivion. The depth, the level of polish...it crushes Morrowind. That doesn't mean that other people won't want to buy it and play it because it's a beautiful game that has fun combat and cool quests. We'll make enough copies for everyone."

[Vee] Cool, so when are you releasing the copies for the hardcore RPG guys?


[MrSmileyFaceDude] "You'll be reading LOTS of stuff. All of the quest lines are much more in depth, challenging and interesting. And there's a heck of a lot more to the game than just the guilds and the main quest. Lots and lots of other things to do that haven't been mentioned. Stats play a huge, huge role. Class actually has meaning this time. The game is better balanced. You have more rewards for advancement besides just getting better at things. The dungeons are better designed, the NPCs are more interesting, the dialogue is better written.

If you think this is a simple, dumbed down hack & slash, you couldn't be more wrong."

[Vee] lol



[BlueDev] "For Oblivion, there's a very concious effort to avoid too much random information spewing by NPCs. Fear not--there's still the same amount of info to be found in the game. In fact, the NPCs probably have more than ever to say; it just makes more sense for them to say it."

[Vee] I hear the Fighters Guild is recruiting again. Not bad work for some folks.


[MrSmileyFaceDude] "Oblivion is infinitely superior to Morrowind in every conceivable way."

[Vee] If all you can conceive of is graphics, then that sentence is technically right.


[MattRyan] "So for all of you thinking that it would be neat to steal something, and then take off on your horse....guess what? An NPC can do the same dirty trick to you as well. "

[Vee] Except for when they chose not to, which is always.



[Todd] "The clothing you wear does affect certain NPC's, but not in a big way, it?s subtle."

[Vee] No Todd, that is Morrowind, you got confused.



[MrSmileyFaceDude] "Broken shields and weapons are automatically dropped and they clatter to the ground using Havok physics. Broken armor stays on, but is ineffective and you'll know if you're wearing broken armor or not."

[Vee] No they don't. Although, he's right, you will know if you're wearing broken armor or not. If you open up the menu and shift through all the tabs to the armor page and then look at your armor's condition. I like doing that every five minutes.


[Slateman] "While I cannot go into detail, rest assured that even players who max out a bunch of skills will discover challenges in this game. We didn't leave you guys out "

[Vee] Because rats level up with you and can kick your ass even at level 30.


[MrSmileyFaceDude] "Just because you can attempt to bribe someone does not mean they'll automatically accept it."

[Vee] No that is Morrowind again.


[MattRyan] "In conclusion, to completely cut out any adjustment to difficulty in enemies would not be fun, just as making all creatures off-set to your level would not be fun."

[Vee] Oh. So, uh, why did you do that?




[Slateman] "Yep. To second MSFD, we don't auto-level exactly to your level. We have all sorts of adjustments available. If we didn't the game would be boring "

[Vee] Sometimes the enemies will be 2 levels higher than you, sometimes they'll be THREE levels higher than you!



[MattRyan] "If everything was leveled then you'd have no fear of anything in the game ('I can beat everything!') We plan on scaring the heck out of the player by higher level creatures."

[Vee] Which appear only when you get to a higher level of course.



[MrSmileyFaceDude] "We happen to think that console gamers are smarter than that, and the success of Morrowind on Xbox proves that console gamers actually ARE interested in games with MORE depth and complexity than some people seem to think they are."

[Vee] Of course you still made Oblivion pretty shallow but yeah whatever.


[MrSmileyFaceDude] "You can only use the map-based fast travel to go to places you've already been. So you'll HAVE to walk to each possible location AT LEAST once."

[Vee] Except for the cities. And some dungeons. And some other places you can teleport to instantly.



[MrSmileyFaceDude] "We could make traditional creatures that looked like every other depiction of those creatures you've seen in books, movies, or other games, but then where's the originality in that?"

[Vee] Look! How original! I've never seen this in every game ever!


[MrSmileyFaceDude] "NPCs would have to be told to go into your house via Radiant AI. And even if they WERE, you could always lock your door..."

[Vee] It's sad that there could be so much wrong with such a short sentence.


[Slateman] "Trust me, you're going to get lost if you wander in these forests and don't use the compass or map."

[Vee] If you get lost in an Oblivion forest, then I have serious questions about your ability to even find your own bed.



[MrSmileyFaceDude] "Resurrected NPCs are not themselves. They're basically mindless automata who will follow you around and fight for you."

[Vee] If you get an item put in as an after-thought at the end of a guild questline.



[MrSmileyFaceDude] "Oblivion is an extremely rich, complex game with a tremendous amount of depth, compelling quest lines, interesting NPC characters, a huge variety of player character types and intricate character progression set in a huge, varied game world. combat, magic, and AI have all been dramatically improved to enhance gameplay while still providing a balance between player skill and character skill, because after all, Oblivion is a role playing game. Yes, some things that were present in Morrowind are not in Oblivion -- but a lot more has been added than removed, and the goal has always been to make a game that is both more accessible to first-time RPG players, and is also challenging and rewarding for more experienced players."

[Vee] Yeah, it's sure a challenge all right. For instance, I have trouble roleplaying in-character during even the most minor of quests.


[Pete] "We will continue to support the mod community as best we can and let them do the great things they do, just as we did with Morrowind."

[Vee] ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha



[Sentinel] "The sad fact is that many development studios can't afford to bankroll their own game development. So they rely on publishers to give them the money to create these games. The problem with this is that the publisher then feels they should have input into the game since they are spending the money. Hence Atari and EA have such a big influence on a game they publish.

Just glad here at Bethesda we are our own publisher and developer and have free reign to make what we want."

[Vee] Which is still watered-down tripe.



[MrSmileyFaceDude] "We're NOT going to slap in features that don't work well just to say we have them."

[Vee] Horses, RAI, Havok Physics, FaceGen, SpeedTree...



[MrSmileyFaceDude] "The compass, the quest marker and compass icons, are NOT the hand-holding, dumbing down babysitter some folks paint them out to be."

[Vee] They turned out to be even worse than we could have ever imagined.

Bethesda is doing a service to the industry, in more ways than one. You just cant see it because you are brainwashed by some elitist gaming group who thinks that they can do and say whatever they want.

Yes, we can say, especially when it's true and freedom of speech is guaranteed. And exactly in which ways is Bethesda making a service to the industry? By proving that making cheap, incoherent games is better than actually providing replayable quality games?

It seems that it is YOU who are brainwashed by the hype and "I don't care" mindset.

 

[VictimOfScience]

It seems that it is YOU who are brainwashed by the hype and "I don't care" mindset.

Yeah, that's where I am with this thread and your "discussions" of Oblivion/Bethesda in general.

*yawn*