Shooting Effects...

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indyjones

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Any idea what the effect of shooting a baddy will be? Some games make shooting feel so real and some its like shooting a pea shooter, ya know?
I know there's ragdoll physics and all, but I'm wondering if the baddy will repsond more when shot than just a canned animation and a blood spurt.
I would like to see some physics in there ie shot in the shoulder and spins around...

Also for the weapons, I don't know what gives a FPS that quality of having weapons with meat to them, maybe ya'll know, but the first halflife kinda had it -not quite as good as Rainbow Six Raven Shield though (But not much interactivity and know physics)

All in all, the Valve guys are geniuses and I trust their talents. For me though, this is an important part of a FPS and I really just wanted to post something
:cheese:
 
IMHO sound has a lot to do with making a "meaty" gun - when the recoil animation, flash, and sound sync up exactly along with a nice bassy report from the weapon, that to me gives the gun some "gravity" for lack of a better term. Some of the Raven Shield guns have this quality, and so seems the handgun in HL2 from what I have observed in the movies. :)
 
i trust valve, but i dont understand your question lol
 
He is talking about Keyframe Blending like in the Zombie movie, Watch it seriously

IF U DONT KNOW WHAT HE IS ASKING WATCH THE ZOMBIE MOVIE THAT I POSTED A LINK TOOO, And as of the e3 movies they dont
 
I think hes asking if the models, eh, flinch the way they should. Meaning, if you shot a guy in the left shoulder his torso would turn to the left from the impact of the shot before he would square up again, or if you shot him in the stomache he would buckle over slightly.

The annswer is "no" if the e3 vid is any indication. They just stand there and get shot until they die and fall down.
 
I am not at all criticizing. Again, I haven't played it and I trust Valve. I have asked Gabe a time or two by email, but I know the guy is too busy at this point.

I just hate to shoot a guy and have him not respond a whole lot and just shoot me a second later. I mean just shot him !!!

Again, just making conversation.
 
Originally posted by farva_man

**EDIT** Doom3 will have this effect BTW :cheers: **EDIT**
Click to expand...

I don't give a flying [frick] about Doom III compared to Half-Life 2. I've played the leaked E3 beta and am more excited about Half-Life 2 from just watching movies!
 
Originally posted by farva_man
**EDIT** Doom3 will have this effect BTW :cheers: **EDIT**
Click to expand...

Uhh... You're a tard. Why did you even come back here? Is there anyone who actually LIKES you? Getting banned is usually a sign that you're not wanted. And where did you hear D3 will have that effect? A link please?
 
LOL! you guys are silly. Dont get all defensive and shit, its no big deal. I was just pointing it out.
 
Aww crap, did not mean to start a doom3 / hl2 debate. I guess it does have to do with the syncing of the gun sounds and animation. You're right the pistol does seem to do it well.
 
Not your fault man some people just cant stand anyone to mention doom3 around here.

Ill remove that comment from my post so they dont flip out and take over your thread.
 
Originally posted by indyjones
Aww crap, did not mean to start a doom3 / hl2 debate. I guess it does have to do with the syncing of the gun sounds and animation. You're right the pistol does seem to do it well.
Click to expand...

It's not your fault. That guy has a Doom 3 fetish.
 
Originally posted by coolio2man
Your talking about Blending...Like in this movie
http://www.havok.com/havok2/Zombie.avi

Ask gabe, i am really not sure. HOPE SO!!
Click to expand...

Just watched this vid...totally awesome!!! I really hope Half-Life 2 has this. The end of the key-frame vid is so tight, all the zombies flying back at once, colliding with all the objects!! Anyone else reminded of the HL engine from this vid? The visuals look quite similar.
 
The games gonna be great regardless if this feature is there or not -no game can do it all (hl2, doom3 or any other)
 
Originally posted by indyjones
The games gonna be great regardless if this feature is there or not -no game can do it all (hl2, doom3 or any other)
Click to expand...

For its time I think HL hit the nail on the head.
 
i love that zombie vid, i hope hl2 ships with that feature :)


if not "its not a technical limitation" ;)
 
yes, gabe already answered a question similar to this. They will have this in the game, as will Doom and, amazingly, all of this next generation of shooters. If they don't wanna code it, they can use the Havok engine like a lot of companies are doing. Some license it just for ragdoll effects.(UT2k3, which of course sucked ass)
 
Hmmm, well its thats true than I was wrong, cause that would make two obvius games that had everything. Guess we'll see. Are benchmarks usually playable or just a vid that runs off the video card? Probably a dumb question that I could find the answer to huh?
 
The best Effect for bullets hitting people is AvP1 i mean it looks so mad, they have bullet holes all over the body and acid and stuff piss out, its the best :D

then they had to take out the best feature in the game and skirmish and make AvP2. bleh.
 
Originally posted by indyjones
Hmmm, well its thats true than I was wrong, cause that would make two obvius games that had everything. Guess we'll see. Are benchmarks usually playable or just a vid that runs off the video card? Probably a dumb question that I could find the answer to huh?
Click to expand...

Benchmarks are non-interactive real-time demos running off your video card to determine the kind of frame rate you get. Go to www.futuremark.com and download 3D Mark 2001 SE. That's the best example of a benchmark program. The only reason I'm not recommending 3D Mark 2003 is because it runs like complete shite on computers that don't have DX9 cards, seeing as it utilizes DX9 shaders everywhere.
 
If any of you have watched the Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines (which uses the same source technology) you will see it there. You would also know that if you read through the valve info thread. Looks pretty cool indeed.

It's good to ask questions but only if people like farva_man don't answer.
 
You can actually see some blending in the barricade video. Not sure if it is actually blending.
 
Refer to it as Keyframe/Blending, so u dont get them mixed up with blending of some other sort
 
Originally posted by indyjones
Any idea what the effect of shooting a baddy will be? Some games make shooting feel so real and some its like shooting a pea shooter, ya know?
I know there's ragdoll physics and all, but I'm wondering if the baddy will repsond more when shot than just a canned animation and a blood spurt.
I would like to see some physics in there ie shot in the shoulder and spins around...

Also for the weapons, I don't know what gives a FPS that quality of having weapons with meat to them, maybe ya'll know, but the first halflife kinda had it -not quite as good as Rainbow Six Raven Shield though (But not much interactivity and know physics)

All in all, the Valve guys are geniuses and I trust their talents. For me though, this is an important part of a FPS and I really just wanted to post something
:cheese:
Click to expand...

lol, unless you shoot a guy with like a 20mm cannon, no body part is gonna move, small arms fire does not blow people or their parts (shoulder, arm, leg) back, unlike what hollywood portrays

it's a common misconception, but if you watch more realistic war movies or series (BoB is the best that comes to mind) when people get shot, they tend to just drop, they don't get blown back.
 
That vid was okay, though who made those incredibly crappy zombie models and skins? The guys at havok need to hire some good modelers and skinners. :)

HL2 definately has all sorts of blended animation types (just about every type on the market), as they've stated. Whether and where they'll be specifically using them to create effects like that in particular with the NPC characters, however, we have no idea. It certainly would add a lot to the zombie fights, but then there could be drawbacks both in unrealism (looking silly) or in framerates.
 
Fool, have you noticed how people deal with the recoil of a shotgun, they have to bend their arms to compensate. A shotgun would infact have enough force to cause someone to have their shoulder knocked back if they were hit by it. Thats what he said, not will the guns knock them flying for a few metres.
 
Re: Re: Shooting Effects...

Originally posted by Doobz
lol, unless you shoot a guy with like a 20mm cannon, no body part is gonna move, small arms fire does not blow people or their parts (shoulder, arm, leg) back, unlike what hollywood portrays

it's a common misconception, but if you watch more realistic war movies or series (BoB is the best that comes to mind) when people get shot, they tend to just drop, they don't get blown back.
Click to expand...

Do ant lions realy exist too? and portals to other dimensions...its a fun factor inprovement not a realism problem...jeeze.
 
This could very easily be one of the things that was unfinished at September 2002, so they left it out.

And will be using it in Half Life 3.
 
Re: Re: Shooting Effects...

Originally posted by Doobz
lol, unless you shoot a guy with like a 20mm cannon, no body part is gonna move, small arms fire does not blow people or their parts (shoulder, arm, leg) back, unlike what hollywood portrays

it's a common misconception, but if you watch more realistic war movies or series (BoB is the best that comes to mind) when people get shot, they tend to just drop, they don't get blown back.
Click to expand...


You must not shoot rifles, getting shot with a 50.cal rifle will indeed move you. Thats if it doesnt blow that body peice off first, a 30-30 can blow your head in half so that alls left it your jaw and maybe your nose. (I've seen some pictures of it, no no not rotten.com website or anything insane like that) In the movies it shows them fly back and do a flip when getting shot, that would not happen.
 
Ok going back to the original question. I know what you mean about the "feel" of guns in computer games. I can't claim to have any experience of using a real gun but I get a more satifying (maybe not the right word) experience using guns in hl and cs etc than in most other games. I cannot tell you how disappointed I was when i ran out to get unreal2 and fired the main assault rifle in it and was greated by a pivelly little trebley sound effect, no recoil and a complete lack of any sense of actually using a weapon.

HL2 will hopefully get it right, here's hoping.
 
Yea, it's all about the sound effects, I think. Even if there isn't a good muzzle flash or anything, a good bass sound to shots can make it "feel" powerful. For example, who's played the Call of Duty singeplayer demo? Overall, I think it's very good, probably better than Medal of Honor. But the guns sound a little weak and I think it's because there's almost no bass to the gunfire. If it had it, I believe it would improve the feel of firing those guns. Half-Life 1 I think was pretty good about gun sounds - except for the submachine gun (I just didn't like the sound it made). The HL1 shotgun was awesome, especially when using two shells at once lol.
 
LLLLOOOOOKKKK AT THE STRIIIDDDEERR WHEN ITTTT GETTTS HIT WII|THHHH THINGS in E3 vid.

thats a lot more impressive then zombies.
 
Originally posted by Apos
HL2 definately has all sorts of blended animation types (just about every type on the market), as they've stated.
Click to expand...

I really hope what you say here is true, cuz i just watch the e3 videos(tunnel, barricade and traptown) again, the ennemies' bodies don't really react to bullet while getting shot. their bodies only react when they are dead. Well, it shouldn't be a technical limitation.
 
Well, like the other guy said, when the Strider gets hit with the big wooden piece of furniture, it gets knocked out of its' stride a bit by the impact.

Maybe the knockback is physically simulated based on the mass and velocity of the objects doing the hitting... that would be cool.
 
The Havok engine which HL2 uses for it's physics has a Flash demo of ragdoll on it's site. In that demo you see a skeleton, you can shoot at it with 'bullets' and it reacts to the place where you shoot it, the shoulder will be knocked back when hit.
Can't find the url right now, a lot of people know this one so if you know it plz post it.
 
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