Should Ep.3 have ironsights?

[Flyingdebris]

thats what they said about the lip sync and facial features though

 

[McCoy]

^^They did? Well, look where that put us? Everyone loves the facial expressions and lip syncing.

As for the ironsights models looking bad, that's because Valve didn't create them with ironsights in mind, thus leaving other parts of certain guns because you would never see them at all.


If you had ironsights in ep.2, honestly, would it be worse if we hadn't debated about it like we are now?

 

[morgs]

I wish it did have them, it's what i like about stalker/gmod so much

 

[RyanG]

Short answer is no.

 

[Absinthe]

thats what they said about the lip sync and facial features though

I don't recall anybody being anything other than wowed when those were shown at HL2's first demonstration. And those did have a clear purpose to them, namely in creating more expressive, believable characters. Alyx alone wouldn't be half of what she is today if she couldn't convincingly pose her face like an actual person's.

The purpose of iron sights in pretty much every game that employs them (at least correctly) is to increase one's accuracy, and accuracy has never been overly important in Half-Life.

 

[Flyingdebris]

it was usually posted by the halo, doom 3, or farcry crowd in the months preceding halflife's launch about how the lip syncing was a waste of time when compared to their game of preference's features. Usually posted in game x vs game y type forum fights

 

[Jeron]

Well, if the replies of the hardcore HL-fans doesn't answer the ironsight lover's questions, then Gabe Newell will:

"I think part of the reason we are doing episodic releases and smaller content releases is to allow us to take some of the risk out of the schedule and instead put it into the gameplay. So Portal, if we'd said let's go out and spend five years building a hundred million dollar game, it would have been fairly scary to have both that financial risk along with the game design risk, but by focussing it in to the Orange Box, it allows us to take that risk. And I think it's as important, if not more important, than the inclusion of physics into the genre. After you play it, you'll say yes, this is something that really needs to be incorporated as part of the genre standard; it's way more interesting than having another ranged weapon or something which is what some games seem to be adding."

http://games.kikizo.com/features/gabenewell_valve_iv_sep07_p1.asp

 

[Zunni]

Episode 3 should not have ironsights. Ironsights are for games that are trying to be realistic. I use ironsights in CoD4. There are ironsights in Bioshock, which I used all of twice and if there was ironsights in HL2 I wouldn't bother with them either. This is a game where you carry a dozen weapons and can shoot while sprinting backwards or jumping with the same accuracy as standing still. Bringing in an ironsight based aiming system into HL2 would slow it down. I have no problem with games that use the hold down [button] for aiming method, but those games are a different style to HL2.

QFT.. (apparently I have to put 2 periods in to make up the minimum post length )

 

[Zunni]

Anyone who thinks HL2 would benefit from such features does not understand or appreciate the brilliance of the gameplay itself. It's not about dotting every level with enemies ? which is what most shooters do ? it's about carefully tuned and polished scenarios. Like, look at Episode 1 ? blocking antlion burrows; deflecting debris on an elevator; finding the power and subsequently defending against hordes of zombies; escorting citizens or repairing the Core. That's good gameplay. It's not about just shooting down enemy after enemy.

It's shocking that some people can't actually grasp this and still churn out the same shooting gallery wank fest year after year.

To add a small point to this.. I think all the people looking for radical change are missing the point. These ARE essentially the same weapons since HL1, and in ALL those YEARS where other sequels push out new weapons to take on new tasks.. HL doesn't have to, the weapons they created in HL1 were so perfect they can be adapted and used in ANY scenerio they've come up with. That's GREAT game making.

 

[McCoy]

Well, if they really went out on a limb, they could possibly add in ironsights without it having such a strong effect on the gameplay, which it won't if it doesn't increase weapon accuracy. No matter what, in real life ironsights won't really affect the GUNS accuracy but your accuracy. I want ironsights only as another effect, but at the same time I don't want Valve to change ANYTHING.

 

[Absinthe]

So you want iron sights that don't do anything?

 

[redruM]

If they disabled the crosshair, or at least gave you an option to disable the crosshair, then ironsights would be useful. Personally, I think ironsights would be awesome, although I doubt Valve will incorporate them as it's quite a large change for gameplay.

 

[circlingthedrain]

After reading through all of these posts I agree with the position that I'd like to see Valve update and improve the combat system by adding iron sights, new weapons, etc...

Most of those against it say HL has never been about accuracy while shooting. Well maybe it's a good time to start. EP 3 is likely going to take place in the Arctic so it there will likely be a shortage of available ammo making accuracy more important. Maybe it just goes along with my style of play as I'm always pretty conservative with my ammo and fire in short bursts or when I have clear shots.

Another argument is that HL has never been about making things realistic. I disagree, while it is set in a fictional time and place, they try to make that universe as realistic and believable as possible to draw the players in. HL has the some of most realistic characters which makes the game so great, so why not improve on the weapons to bring them up to the same level?

For those who want things to stay the same, you have 3 games with essentially the same combat system. I don't see how it can hurt to try to make some advancements/improvements to the combat for EP3.

One of Valves reasons for episodic games was to be able to test out new features, in smaller games. EP1 had improved Alyx, EP2 had further improved Alyx and more open environments, for EP3 I'd like continued improvement to Alyx along with improved weapons. Yes it's time the weapons get some attention.

 

[Absinthe]

Whoopsy daisy.

 

[Absinthe]

Most of those against it say HL has never been about accuracy while shooting. Well maybe it's a good time to start.

Yes, let's drastically change HL2's gameplay and alienate fans because you're playing the wrong game.

Valve will never make Half-Life about accuracy because they want its core gameplay to be something anybody can get into regardless of their shooter skills.

EP 3 is likely going to take place in the Arctic so it there will likely be a shortage of available ammo making accuracy more important. Maybe it just goes along with my style of play as I'm always pretty conservative with my ammo and fire in short bursts or when I have clear shots.

If there are enemies, there is ammo. We roamed across the countryside in Episode 2 and there was never any ammunition lacking then.

Another argument is that HL has never been about making things realistic. I disagree, while it is set in a fictional time and place, they try to make that universe as realistic and believable as possible to draw the players in. HL has the some of most realistic characters which makes the game so great, so why not improve on the weapons to bring them up to the same level?

Are you being serious? This is a game where I can pick up a sofa and hurl it across the room at my enemies. I can heal myself with magic injections from wall jacks. I can leap my car from cliffs and survive without a single injury or mechanical failure. And as flyingdebris pointed out earlier, I can reload a revolver with my thumb. Speaking of weapons, I can carry a dozen of them.

The characters exude realism because they are strong and well-written. But realism itself is not the driving force behind them.

 

[MattyDienhoff]

Should EP3 have iron sights? No.

Why not? Continuity. If they had added iron sights to Half-Life 2 at the very beginning it wouldn't have been such a big deal, because it was already a big technology jump from Half-Life to Half-Life 2. If the ability to look down the sights of your weapons suddenly cropped up now, how would they justify it?

"Um, yeah, these weapons have always had sights on them, but Gordon just... didn't feel like using them at all until now."

It's not like that seperate battery for the flashlight they introduced in Episode Two for gameplay purposes. That was a minor tweak. The introduction of iron sights is a huge change. Don't get me wrong, I love iron sights, but I'm not sure they suit Half-Life 2's gameplay overly well, and like I said - it seems a bit late to add the feature now.

 

[morgs]

you mean like suddenly gordons vision only just started blurring, the sky/lighting suddenly improved since the train crash? the vorts skin changed?

 

[Jeron]

It's not an advancement/improvement. It's a change!
You can't change the things that make it Half Life.
I just happen to like the combat very much, the combat as it is now is very very awesome. No changes please. And there can't be any improvement, 'cause the game is already 'perfectly' balanced!

Why would Valve implement features many other games already have? While they can (and are) make unique gameplay features which makes ALL other games not even half the quality of what HL is.

If you like ironsights so much, play games that has them.

 

[Dog--]

In SMOD for HL2 you can use iron sights, and it kicks ass.. I loved using iron sights for the SMG, you can look through that little laser cross-hair that's on top of the SMG.. I think about it all the time while I'm playing, I always think 'man, I wish I had iron sights here..' even if they don't give you better accuracy, I wouldn't care. It's more of a psychological thing to me.. I'd love to have them.

That's not to say I would hate the game without them, or anything like that. It'd just be a neat addition, if they don't do it, ok, fine by me, HL2 is about so much more then weapons, and if they do do it, fine by me again, like I said, neat little addition, and nothing more.

 

[FrostXian]

If they wanted to add in meaningless, unnecesary shit, they would keep the old intro and about 20 more weapons they had in the beta.

 

[sammitch]

no.... why would they do that...

 

[dogboy73]

I think it would be to big a change for the last in the series to suddenly impliment something like this. It would change the feel of the game & why do that for EP3, possibly the last in the HL series.

 

[Asknoone]

It has been confirmed EP3 is in no way the end - there's sitll a lot to tell.

 

[Omnomnick]

You tell em Samon, I hate people who just say 'Na, Half Life 2 Episode 3 is the end...blah wut, adrien sheprd retern!!!1!!1'

 

[L3N!N]

It's going to end? Nuh uh, HL series isn't even in its prime right now, and its fantastic.

As for ironsights I think it might be cool, but might restrict some gameplay options.

 

[dogboy73]

It has been confirmed EP3 is in no way the end - there's sitll a lot to tell.

So no closure at the end of EP3 then? Is HL just goin to run & run until we all finally get sick to the back teath of it? Is the series going to fall foul of the X-Files syndrome? i.e. that thing they do in the States were they milk something good for all it's worth until the series just fades away into obscurity. I think that HL needs some sort of closure to at least wrap up the current series. Has HL3 actually been confirmed? I thought that a lot of people still though that the episodes were HL3! (an idea I've never subscribed to myself)

 

[Absinthe]

Yeah, they're going to wrap up the whole HL series with a five-hour episode.

Come on.

 

[Pesmerga]

This is the stupidest thread evar.

Even stupider than my peeing preference thread.

 

[L3N!N]

^^Just for that, I had to kill the guy in your avy Pesh.


;(

 

[General Balls]

you mean like suddenly gordons vision only just started blurring, the sky/lighting suddenly improved since the train crash? the vorts skin changed?

Those are purely aesthetic. No effect on gameplay at all.

 

[Apocalypse89]

I haven't read most of this thread, although judging by the last few posts it seems to have gone off-topic.

Anyway, I love iron sights in video games, but they wouldn't really fit into the HL series. Iron sights are more for realistic and semi-realistic games where the accuracy of a weapon varies according to recoil, movement, etc. While the HL games use a more arcadey system where weapons seem to have consistent accuracy no matter what(although I could swear that the pulse rifle is more accurate in bursts than when full spraying).

Weren't iron sights considered for HL2 during development? I vaguely remember seeing a screenshot where the player is looking down the SMG's sights. Or maybe that was from a mod?

 

[Deinonut]

Well maybe gordon can't use ironsights very well, he doesn't have perfect vision and wears glasses.

 

[Ayepecks]

I don't know... I like ironsights in a lot of games (even Bioshock, despite another poster's hatred of ironsights in it) such as Call of Duty, F.E.A.R., Crysis and others. But would it really work in Half-Life 2?

In most of the games where there is ironsights it's because the pacing is completely different than Half-Life 2's. There's more sneaking (or the option to), or better A.I. for you to fight against. Half-Life 2's pacing is nothing like that. It's more of a run for your life type thing.

 

[Zephos]

There were ironsights in Bioshock?

 

[Van Kayne]

Yes, there were. It was labeled the zoom key or something, even though it was really for iron sights (exception being the one gun with a scope).

Anyway, I agree iron sights would be a bit superfluous. I thought the HEV suit kept track of where you were pointing the gun (ie: the HUD on your computer screen is the HUD of the HEV suit). I played a mod a long time ago (an earlier version of SMOD I think?) that let you use ironsights in HL2 single player. It didn't enhance the experience much.