Should I pursue making this mod?

[Ennui]

I'm experienced with working on mod teams and I have a very thorough understanding of how Half-Life 2 modding works; now I want to start my own team. Whether or not I can administrate a mod team (I would work as manager, game design, web design, and mapping) is not the issue; I want to ask about my idea.

Trench warfare has always intrigued me, so I want to make a modern shooter with trenches. I haven't come up with the name yet, but I'll call it Trench Warfare for now. Trench Warfare uses modern weapons and is set in this day and age; reluctance to use nuclear weapons has forced warring nations back into the trenches. The storyline has not been decided on yet, but it's not too important, as this is a multiplayer modification. Essentially, it will be like World War I, with entrenched warfare, except with modern weapons and some interesting twists.

There would be vehicles, though mainly just jeeps and buggies; actual tanks and other vehicles are apt to get bogged down in the mud and tank-traps that will litter the map. It is completely mulitplayer, and the maps will mainly have large battlefields with trench systems and ruined urban areas behind them. The battlefield won't be simply flat and sniper-heaven; there will be a lot of rubble, detritus, mud, and barbed wire between the two sides, and in some cases there will be small towns alongside that players can move up through.

In order to win, one team must capture all of the points on the map. Weapons would be modern, with automatic rifles, bolt-action sniper rifles, a plethora of pistols and submachineguns, and hand grenades.

Thoughts/comments/suggestions/criticisms? I'm working on a map to sort of demo what it is I'm talking about, which I'll show you when it's in working condition.

 

[The Dark Elf]

Call it Trench foot.

I suppose you could make it, upto you, make mods for yourself not _just_ for other people. There will always be people who don't like what gets made no matter what it is.

 

[archvilell]

I kind of like the idea. Sounds intriguing. I'm not too great at sniping, so close quarters with modern weapons would be fun. Be sure to include shotguns ! Have at it; it sounds great.

 

[sabre0001]

Could make mod but there are goin to be a few war-fare mods as well as games that have been released - can you come up with things that sets it apart? and DoD will also be released

 

[Dario D.]

Never underestimate the work it takes to make weapons and vehicles for a mod. Also, if the mod idea is not rock-solid and completely thought-out as to how fun it will actually be - just something fun to play - then it will vanish like dust, amongst a million other similar mods, that try to be good, but were just never cut out or *set out* to be great...

I would only bother with a mod that's something to the effect of Desert Combat for Battlefield 1942 - enourmous, engaging, addictive, rock-solid and replayable, and loaded to the teeth with the result of painstaking work.

Otherwise, I think you'll just be wasting your time. Trench warfare is very difficult on a tiny-map engine like Source.
-
I say this because I'm working on a mod right now on the Unreal Engine that's aimed to be massive and rock-solid - kind of like a Desert Combat for Unreal Engine - and it's so much work to even make a simple set of weapons and vehicles, it's not even funny how long it takes to get it done. Weapons and vehicles aren't 200 polys anymore.

The project is very worthwhile in the sense that it's backed by carefully thought-out gameplay, and can be ported to pretty much any engine with room to grow in the future. Why I say this is because it's meant to last, and I recommend you only get to work on a mod if you're willing to commit alot of time and energy to it. If not, the mod might flop around on the beach for a while, but won't ever grow the arms and legs it needs to really get anywhere. Remember the P's: Proper Planning Prevents Pain.

So here are a few factors, just to give you a little insight aside from the usual, "make it", "yeah, its a good idea" just to spare you some time and mistakes:

1: Source engine + multiplayer trench warfare = small maps.
Source really isn't the engine for WWI/II maps, unless it's close-quarter singleplayer with loading zones.

2: Trench warfare (whether or not it actually has trenches) is already predominant in Call of Duty and Battlefield 1942, and of course Desert Combat and Eve of Destruction. A mod on the topic would have to be revolutionary somehow, otherwise it will only attract curious HL2 players.

...anyway. I hope that sheds some light on your decision, and spares you some pain and frustration. Alot of people nowadays are trying to make all this fancy stuff for Half-Life2, forgetting that it's really quite a limiting engine on today's hardware.

Remember also that gameplay sells, and most people are "already sold" when it comes to trench warfare, on other games.

 

[kfumstr2000]

Ennui, are you thinking of something somewhat similar to Call of Duty? Cuz if so, Id like to help. ^^

 

[FireCrack]

Tell me about it. I'm the coderon the same mod as Dario, weapons take forever.

At the start it's fast becasue your excited then things just get exponentialy slower, ofcourse i do have my studies to contend to now wich may be a contributing factor, but whatever.


The problem with a mod like this would, in my eyes, mainly be that you cannot "tell" the player what to do, odds are that unless you utterly landmine the feild and add high powered machine guns at each trench to the point where attacking isn't fun people will just poour out into the feilds anf you'l basicly have TDM with objectives.


Anyways, my advice to you: Plan the mod out entirely on paper first, if you dont there are ruts your going to fall into, make sure that the mod will be interesting, good, and played the way it's meant to be played (tm nVidia)

 

[Ennui]

Right; I know that I have to plan everything out, this is just to see if anyone's interested. I'm changing it from all trench warfare to more trench/urban environments; I'll post a much more detailed description tomorrow.

Anyone with skills think they'd want to help something like this?

 

[kfumstr2000]

ennui, thought you were making Station Unrest. *reading your blog*

 

[DookieBooty]

sounds pretty cool

 

[Ennui]

ennui, thought you were making Station Unrest. *reading your blog*

Didn't get enough attention, really, but we'll see. If I can scrounge up a team for it then I will.

 

[Ennui]

All right, thought about it quite a bit more today:

Instead of trench warfare, it's going to be more urban war environments (think Europe in WWII). There will still be trenches, just not extensive WWII ones. The weapons will be several modern weapons, given to players via classes. There will be vehicles, but as I said before, they won't play as major of a role as in most mods, as they won't always respawn and the rubble and detritus will make it difficult for them to move. I'm currently writing out a design document for the mod, but the question remains: do you think I would be able to get a team together to make it? I would love to make it, but this is going to be far too big of a job for one person.

 

[Dan]

i'd put the odds of this mod seeing beta 1 at 1/20. And I disagree about the rock solid ideas and big changes. Personally I think the most successful mods are the ones that start with very simple ideas, a good coder and just reuse the models from the original game. Then once the ideas are layed out, start refining the models and textures etc.
see http://www.planethalflife.com/blended/
I would trust this guy to make a decent mod. He's already pumped out a dozen or so for HL1. And they're fun too.

 

[Pesmerga]

Well, I don't exactly see why modern warfare would ever be fought in trenches. The whole concept seems to have worked in WW1-WW2, but now it's pretty obsolete with the invention of better and more accurate explosives.

Although, I'm certainly not saying it has to be WW1 era, though.
In my opinion from what I've read, it seems your proposed mod is pretty...bland. If it is really what you want to do, you should try it. Just saying, if you really get a great idea in your head, you'll know it.

 

[Dario D.]

Personally I think the most successful mods are the ones that start with very simple ideas, a good coder and just reuse the models from the original game.

Like what mods? The only good mods I've seen are based on original content, drastic mutations of the original gameplay, or are a new game entirely. The others are mods that never make it out of the test chamber.

I would trust this guy to make a decent mod. He's already pumped out a dozen or so for HL1. And they're fun too.

Well, exactly. All that work, and who really got involved in playing them?

It takes a new mindset to break the circle of making "blah mods". If you don't pursue religious amounts of planning and insight, you'll never make it out of the mod test chamber... "and all the effort in the world would have gone to waste."

I think it would be much better to think about, firstly, what kinds of mods the gaming community would really embrace and drool over, (which at this point everyone is already neck-deep in modern warfare, with all these SP and MP realism games out). Secondly, what kind of gameplay would keep a mod like that fresh, appealing, and replayable? Modern weaponry, in a saturated market like this, is just modern weaponry unless there's something *really* interesting to back it up. If you just make a mod with urban maps and modern weapons, it will be like throwing a penguin out in a field of penguins.

 

[Dan]

The early builds of TFC, CS, Sven Coop, they all borrowed lots of models from the original HL1. They only refined all that once they were popular

 

[Ennui]

The early builds of TFC, CS, Sven Coop, they all borrowed lots of models from the original HL1. They only refined all that once they were popular

They borrowed the models because they didn't have their own yet; no intention to keep them was present (except maybe for Sven-Coop).

I'm really thinking a lot about this whole thing, I want to somehow find a way to incorporate the WWII setting of ruined urban environments, total warfare, but without making a WWII mod, since those are a dime a dozen.

Anyone have any ideas?

 

[kfumstr2000]

This mod going to be somewhat like Call of Duty? O.O Cuz if so, IM IN!!! If you need Concept Artists that is. And also, if you got tanks, it would be cool.

 

[Ennui]

Well, do you think that it's in any way plausible to make yet another WWII mod? I have some fresh ideas for it, like ragdoll sandbags, but do you think it's even possible to get a team together for one? I would certainly be able to make a high-quality mod, and I absolutely love the era and atmosphere, but do you think that it would be a waste of time?

 

[Dario D.]

Only one way to know for sure:

First make a map for HL2 Deathmatch to see if it will end up being what you want. Mess around with the default weapons and get a few players to play with you to see if it would work. Add ragdoll sandbags and stuff to the map, and simulate the mod's features when you play...

It's better to pretend you're playing your mod than to actually make it and then realize it's not what you thought.

 

[Ennui]

ah yes thats a good idea. ty.