Should "Support the Troops" stickers be allowed on Police cruisers?

[CptStern]

"the point of public relations slogans like "Support Our Troops" is that they don't mean anything [...] that's the whole point of good propaganda. You want to create a slogan that nobody is gonna be against and I suppose everybody will be for, because nobody knows what it means, because it doesn't mean anything. But its crucial value is that it diverts your attention from a question that does mean something, do you support our policy? And that's the one you're not allowed to talk about." - Noam Chomsky


the above is the underlying message behind the Yellow ribbon on police cruisers that have been showing up across canada ..some politicians and citizen groups have been against the decals because government services should be politically neutral in order to function as a whole ..while other more patriotic canadians have said that removing the decals from cruisers is a slap on the face because these people are Heroes? yadda yadda

I must stress that this thread is more about government propagandising an unpopular war through non traditional methods than about whether we should support the troops ..I myself am conflicted ..on the one hand I dont want them to be killed; I support their right to be alive ..on the other hand I dont support Bush's dirty little war and we shouldnt be taking part in it

 

[Raxxman]

I think on a whole, it's more about supporting and thinking about the people who are out there risking their lives over the policy that dictates why they are there.

So I'd say keep em.

 

[Tick]

support the troops has differnt meanings,my dad has that sticker on his squad car and he want us to get out of Iraq.

 

[CptStern]

support the troops has differnt meanings,my dad has that sticker on his squad car and he want us to get out of Iraq.

you and your dad miss the point of the stickers

vote in the poll

 

[Tyguy]

I don't see any reason to remove them. I am against the war but 100 percent support our guys over their. Id assume not supporting them would be to hold them accountable for the entire thing, which is ridiculous. They are over there risking their lives and they should know that when they get home people will be appreciative and thankful, instead of what happened with Vietnam.

I would object to the Support our War stickers though

Edit: I would say that people dont read into it as much as you would think.

 

[No Limit]

These are showing up in Canada? Why? I didn't know you guys were part of any conflicts.

As far as this country goes the neocons tried to whore"support the troops" to mean "support the war". But I think most people don't really see it that way and I think Noam Chomsky said it best, it really doesn't mean anything.

Anyway, I think any kind of political symbols should be banned from police cars and other government property. But I have a hard time deciding if this is a political symbol.

 

[Tick]

These are showing up in Canada? Why? I didn't know you guys were part of any conflicts.

As far as this country goes the neocons tried to whore"support the troops" to mean "support the war". But I think most people don't really see it that way and I think Noam Chomsky said it best, it really doesn't mean anything.

Anyway, I think any kind of political symbols should be banned from police cars and other government property. But I have a hard time deciding if this is a political symbol.

Canada is in Afghanistan I think.

 

[kirovman]

I think Canadians are in Afghanistan. Not sure about Iraq.

 

[CptStern]

we're part of operation "enduring freedom" :upstare: ...under our responsibilities to Nato we have troops under US commmand in afghanistan ..we're fighting your war and 67 canadians have lost their lives because of it

 

[Tick]

Well I think Afghanistan isn't a lost cause though....unlike Iraq.

 

[CptStern]

afghanistan is a lost cause, we will never keep the taliban at bay ..what's worse is that we'll support some other despot/tyrant and they'll be no better than the Taliban ....remember WE put the taliban in power in afghanistan ..WE called the "freedom fighters" "noble" "good people" when it suited us ..so we have no one but ourselves to blame ..but we wont have learned from our past mistakes and we'll put someone in power who's not better

 

[Tick]

That bold guy that walk around in a dress in Afghanistan seems like a good guy,isn't he the President?

 

[No Limit]

I actually didn't know that. I guess we all learn something new everyday.

 

[CptStern]

no biggie, the US never recognises Canada's role ..mostly because Canada refused to participate in the rape and destruction of Iraq, that didnt sit well with many americans/conservatives/bush admin ..oh and the prime minister's nephew called Bush an idiot in public ..so did our ambassador. Our current leader Stephan "Hi I'm a conservative idiot who licks Bush' heel" Harper is much much friendlier with numbnuts from texas

That bold guy that walk around in a dress in Afghanistan seems like a good guy,isn't he the President?

he's about as western as they get, educated in the UK, he spent most of his time as an exile from afghanistan ..he will never be accepted ..in fact I'm surprised he's still alive ..as soon as the west leaves, he's dead

 

[Nemesis6]

Tick, Hamid Karzai is one you speak of. He does seem to be a good candidate. Check his wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamid_Karzai

What does it matter whether or not you have a sticker on your car that says support the troops? Most Americans support the troops, but in very different ways. Like Penn & Teller says - "Everyone's pro-choice AND pro-life. It's for or against ABORTION that your group is about." - Though there really are some people who downright don't, they don't matter cause they're nutjobs.

So when did the government start putting these stickers on the cars?

 

[CptStern]

Tick, Hamid Karzai is one you speak of. He does seem to be a good candidate. Check his wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamid_Karzai

What does it matter whether or not you have a sticker on your car that says support the troops? Most Americans support the troops, but in very different ways. Like Penn & Teller says - "Everyone's pro-choice AND pro-life. It's for or against ABORTION that your group is about." - Though there really are some people who downright don't, they don't matter cause they're nutjobs.

ah ffs you're not even reading the thread title in it's entirity nemsis ..this thread is about GOVERNMENT service vehicles not what joe six pack puts on his pick up truck ...jeez talk about add

 

[The Monkey]

no, government services should not politicise one POV, they should be neutral

No form of political labels or symbols should be put on offical vehicles.

 

[The Monkey]

EDIT: Double post.

 

[Nemesis6]

I know it's about government vehicles, and the same holds true: It can mean a variety of things. But what you have to understand is that police officers and soldiers have a lot in common, so it doesn't really matter what their politics are, they do a lot of the same work; they both serve their country. Now, think about that for a minute. Now, is it any surprise that they might wanna show solidarity regardless of their opinion about the war?

By the way: Please stop being a bitch for no reason when you reply to my posts. With your choice of words in your replies, I have a good basis for assuming you have Tourettes.

 

[CptStern]

I know it's about government vehicles, and the same holds true: It can mean a variety of things.

no it means one thing: pushing the ruling party's POV, nothing more

But what you have to understand is that police officers and soldiers have a lot in common, so it doesn't really matter what their politics are, they do a lot of the same work; they both serve their country.

what does that have to do with anything? it's still pushing political ideology

Now, think about that for a minute. Now, is it any surprise that they might wanna show solidarity regardless of their opinion about the war?

meaningless one person's pov means nothing when you're talking about their employers pov ..what if one of those police officers wanted to put a "bring the troops home, canada out of afghanistan" sticker? it's exactly the same principle ..but it wouldnt be allowed BECAUSE it's not serving the ruling party's POV

By the way: Please stop being a bitch for no reason when you reply to my posts. With your choice of words in your replies, I have a good basis for assuming you have Tourettes.

wrong again, tourettes syndrome is always typified by emotiuonal outbursts, facial twitching etc ..it never makes it way into writing ...how do you write down a facial tick? anyways, you frustrate me because you cant even bothered to read the thread title much less the contents of the thread yet feel you know enough to comment anyways

 

[Tyguy]

Ill give you a facial tick stern, something that lets you know how I feel about you and your opinions....

:naughty:

 

[Nemesis6]

Ok, Monkey thinks ANY decal should be banned from government vehicles... What about you?

 

[CptStern]

Ill give you a facial tick stern, something that lets you know how I feel about you and your opinions....

:naughty:

Stern doesnt play catcher for the other team, only picther ..open wide :naughty:

Ok, Monkey thinks ANY decal should be banned from government vehicles... What about you?

you mean like "What Would Jesus Do" or "My other car isnt a piece of shit" or "My wife says I should get up and go to work, but the voices in my head say I should stay home and clean my guns. " bumper stickers? again you miss the point of the thread ..this is a government initiative NOT individual people ....what is it with you? do you not like reading? it's all over this thread: it's government mandated

 

[Tyguy]

Ok, Monkey thinks ANY decal should be banned from government vehicles... What about you?

No. If bumper stickers can inject that much conviction into you, the problem is not with the sticker.

Stern doesnt play catcher for the other team, only picther ..open wide :naughty:

:burp:

 

[Nemesis6]

Something like "support the troops", the only problem I have with it is if it's indeed being "pushed" by the government. Other than that, I don't think it's wrong, as long as that's all they stick to.

EDIT: I just noticed - "stick to" get it?

 

[EVIL]

With your choice of words in your replies, I have a good basis for assuming you have Tourettes.

To me it reads as annoyance to replies that aren't fully thought trough.

 

[Solaris]

I don't like it, it's propaganda, and being on a police car it's more than that; it's slightly Orwellian. The police are the law, so they should not be telling us what political view point to subscribe to.

On a different note, I'm not sure on Afghanistan, it sure seems like we're losing and perhaps we are. Does that mean we should give in? The Taliban are an awful group, they are Islamfacists. Part of me says we should stand up to them, we shouldn't let them win becuase the peope of Afganistan do not deserve to be subjected to the terror of their rule.

I am aware that we funded and supplied the Taliban (well I didn't, but hey) but, as Christopher Hitchens said "Does that not triple our responsibility to remove them?". The fight against the Taliban is good fight, we are fighting for freedom and democracy against those who would push their bigotry and religious fundamentalism onto others at the barrel of a gun.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

I meant to vote for the second "no" but I accidently clicked the first D:.

 

[repiV]

"Support the troops" is about as much of a political statement as "oppose rapists".

 

[CptStern]

"Support the troops" is about as much of a political statement as "oppose rapists".

no, you too miss the point ..it's about towing the political line ..city services shouldnot be at the beck and call to the ruling party's political PR tool ..it may appear innocuous to you because you support that contention however it's no different than "In jesus we trust" on city vehicles: pushing official political policy

 

[Nemesis6]

"In jesus we trust"

Except soldiers who are just doing their job aren't Jesus! :cheese:

 

[repiV]

no, you too miss the point ..it's about towing the political line ..city services shouldnot be at the beck and call to the ruling party's political PR tool ..it may appear innocuous to you because you support that contention however it's no different than "In jesus we trust" on city vehicles: pushing official political policy

How do you draw that conclusion? Is it not possible you're just reading too far into things?

 

[CptStern]

How do you draw that conclusion? Is it not possible you're just reading too far into things?

nope, it was struck down for that very reason ..it's pushing an agenda

 

[el Chi]

Canada is in Afghanistan I think.

I didn't read that post properly and was shocked at a grievous error in geography for a moment.

 

[repiV]

nope, it was struck down for that very reason ..it's pushing an agenda

"Support the troops" is not a political agenda. In fact, one would raise serious questions about the nature of a country in which the populace doesn't support the troops.
The only way it could ever be construed as pushing an agenda is if people choose to interpret it as such.

 

[Absinthe]

This poll makes a very large assumption regarding the nature or "uderlying message", which from the get-go establishes anybody who disagrees with it as ignorant to an extent.

That said, I'm ambivalent. I really don't care if I see a police cruiser drive by with a sticker saying "Support the Troops". Maybe it shouldn't be there, but I'm not concerned. It would be one thing if the stickers said "IRAQI FREEDOM RULES" or some such similar rubbish, but I know die-hard, anti-war liberals who slap the "Support" saying on their vehicles purely out of respect for the US troops and their unfortunate situation. You read what you want into it.

You're really pushing the political PR aspect, Stern. And I don't think you have sufficient grounds for it. This would offer far more clarity and resolution if the topic was whether such displays of political sentiments in general should be allowed on government vehicles. If that is your intent, then my apologies. But if I'm missing the point of this thread, it's because it's already gotten so clouded up with arguments about what "Support the Troops" really means, and I fail to see why that should matter.

 

[Solaris]

How can you support the troops whilst thinking what they are doing is immoral?

 

[el Chi]

"Support the troops" is not a political agenda. In fact, one would raise serious questions about the nature of a country in which the populace doesn't support the troops.
The only way it could ever be construed as pushing an agenda is if people choose to interpret it as such.

The supposed intention is that "Support the troops" and "Support the war" be mutually inclusive; that the person who opposes the war opposes the troops.

How can you support the troops whilst thinking what they are doing is immoral?

This is the problem - the two are not mutually inclusive. You can "support the troops" by hoping that they all come home safely. You might not like what their duty requires of them, but does that mean you hope they personally suffer?

 

[Absinthe]

How can you support the troops whilst thinking what they are doing is immoral?

A lot of people have generated sympathy due to the perception of US troops being lied to and forced into an avoidable conflict, dying for no reason thanks to an incompetent, dishonest chain of command. Many troops are seen as unwilling participants.

For many people, "Support the Troops" simply means supporting the well-being of US soldiers and a swift return. You can argue as much as you like that "omg that's not the true intention!", but that's really irrelevant.

 

[repiV]

How can you support the troops whilst thinking what they are doing is immoral?

How can you not support the people whose primary task is to protect you, your family, your community and the lifestyle you enjoy at the expense of their lives, their friends or at the very least their total sanity, just because they do their duty?

Hell, they even earn a shit wage for their trouble, something that should strike a chord with your "big up teh working class" bollocks. Starting pay for a Royal Marines Commando is just over ?11,000 - and they have by far the hardest training of any basic infantry in the world.

If you don't support the troops, you're an arrogant scumbag and your citizenship ain't worth the paper it's written on.