Should we have borders?

[Hazar]

Should there be seperate countries?

 

[KoreBolteR]

well, itll be harder to catch terrorists or criminals without any borders.

 

[Sprafa]

I guess in the case of the EU, there are no real reasons for borders other than being on the maps. There is no such thing as border control, it's just a limit to an increasingly globalized culture.

 

[short recoil]

They should split the entire earth up into degree sectors 0,0 1,1 you know.
all sectors would be same size, allowing easy transportation, communication, commerce e.t.c

BUT

Many countries would say piss off.

 

[jondy]

We're too entrenched in a nationality mentality for this to even be considered.

But even if we weren't, think about it. What if one of those lines bisected friends, family, etc? Not practical on any level

 

[el Chi]

I see no problem whatsoever with a unified global state. Except no-one'll really agree to that for many, many years. A European superstate within the next few decades is conceivable, but unlikely.

 

[The Monkey]

The rich countries would lose a lot on a unified globe. And the EU has much less power than you imply it have, the borders still have a huge importance.

 

[shumlya4012]

I see no problem whatsoever with a unified global state. Except no-one'll really agree to that for many, many years. A European superstate within the next few decades is conceivable, but unlikely.

maybe in like 100 years, look at the world now, what do you think is going to happen if we open up the boarders?

 

[Hazar]

united states of the world anyone?

/me runs

 

[kmack]

[img=http://img244.echo.cx/img244/1940/jsesusland6rq.th.jpg]

I would love borders

 

[seinfeldrules]

I like borders just fine.

 

[Tr0n]

Borders are fine to me also, but I wouldn't mind a one world goverment ether.

 

[jondy]

I dunno... a monopoly of power would cause more problems than it would solve. Plus, natural borders would spring up anyway :|

 

[Hazar]

I like borders just fine.

what reason though?

 

[seinfeldrules]

what reason though?

It would create too much chaos and disorder. Imagine trying to mesh America with 'Red' China. Different beliefs, form of Gov't, etc. etc.

 

[pvtbones]

just look at the UN are they really capable of doing anything? no not really not try applying that to the government level(ie. one leader of parliament), not a pretty picture.

 

[Hazar]

It would create too much chaos and disorder. Imagine trying to mesh America with 'Red' China. Different beliefs, form of Gov't, etc. etc.

in any form of government, there are always people who don't like it

 

[seinfeldrules]

in any form of government, there are always people who don't like it

But in this situation we're talking about either hundreds of millions, or billions of people. I like it better if each of those sections could govern themselves as we are doing now.

 

[Hazar]

but why shouldn't those people be able to travel freely througout the world?

perhaps a form of subgovernment?

 

[kirovman]

but why shouldn't those people be able to travel freely througout the world?

perhaps a form of subgovernment?

Yes I would like one day people being able to freely travel the world, as Americans and Europeans are able to do today, and a few more odd rich countries around the world. No visa requirements and free borders.

Although that is in a far off future (hopefully not too far), if we manage to get rid of nationalist mentality, and convince people that the human race is what we should be working for, not for little groups of nations.
As the world becomes globalised, over centuries, nationalities will become blurred, and borders will blur too.

Nationalism is just one step above tribal systems, allegiance to your village, and it is one step below allegiance to the human race.


You'd probably have to abolish hard line religion though (unrealistic).

But I believe if we can sustain whatever population this world has (control the population growth too), and can provide the resources and services to every person (it is plausible), we can work towards a unified humanity.

Maybe you'd call it unrealistic, but it's necessary if we are to advance as a species, we can't stay in this status quo forever. Maybe the possibility would come after colonisation of places outside this world.

 

[Hazar]

Yes I would like one day people being able to freely travel the world, as Americans and Europeans are able to do today, and a few more odd rich countries around the world. No visa requirements and free borders.

Although that is in a far off future (hopefully not too far), if we manage to get rid of nationalist mentality, and convince people that the human race is what we should be working for, not for little groups of nations.
As the world becomes globalised, over centuries, nationalities will become blurred, and borders will blur too.

Nationalism is just one step above tribal systems, allegiance to your village, and it is one step below allegiance to the human race.

You'd probably have to abolish hard line religion though (unrealistic).

But I believe if we can sustain whatever population this world has (control the population growth too), and can provide the resources and services to every person (it is plausible), we can work towards a unified humanity.

Maybe you'd call it unrealistic, but it's necessary if we are to advance as a species, we can't stay in this status quo forever. Maybe the possibility would come after colonisation of places outside this world.

this will become even more pressing as our resources dwindle

 

[short recoil]

this will become even more pressing as our resources dwindle

And thats when the governments will decide on a "cull"

 

[satch919]

Seal the borders and deport those that are here illegally. I just saw a story on this the other night on 60 Minutes. These people are coming over here, taking jobs for a lower wage, corporations are benefitting, they're stealing social security documents, they're also eating up tax dollars. Try living in Southern California and tell me that we don't have an immigration problem.

I know plenty of people who have gone through the process of becoming a citizen, its not impossible.

 

[Hazar]

Seal the borders and deport those that are here illegally. I just saw a story on this the other night on 60 Minutes. These people are coming over here, taking jobs for a lower wage, corporations are benefitting, they're stealing social security documents, they're also eating up tax dollars. Try living in Southern California and tell me that we don't have an immigration problem.

I know plenty of people who have gone through the process of becoming a citizen, its not impossible.

but if we didn't have borders it wouldn't be illegal

 

[satch919]

but if we didn't have borders it wouldn't be illegal

There's a reason why we have borders and why we've had borders throughout history. We want to stop others from using up our resources. Would you like someone to walk right into your home and take 10 bucks one day and maybe 50 bucks another? No, thats why you have doors and locks. As citizens of this country we should have access to resources before those that are here illegally. I pay my taxes because I get various community services. Do you think illegals pay taxes? No. However, if there's a medical emergency, we take them into our hospitals knowing that they don't have any insurance or any other means of paying for it. Who do you think pays for it? The tax payers. Its not fair to those that pay their dues.

 

[el Chi]

just look at the UN are they really capable of doing anything? no not really not try applying that to the government level(ie. one leader of parliament), not a pretty picture.

Yeah, but that doesn't pertain to be a world government. It's a focal point for different nations, and whilst a body like that is where a one-world nation would develop from, it shouldn't be used as a gauge for how a one-world government would operate.
It's important to understand that we shouldn't be considering this as a possibility for tomorrow but rather as a goal to work towards.
Personally, I see it as little more than an inevitability.

There's a reason why we have borders and why we've had borders throughout history.

Throughout history borders have shifted and changed, generally as "nations" grow and become more inclusive. As far as I can see, this merely demonstrates that they are not all that important, and that the only real way to prosper is to be inclusive.

 

[Razor]

There's a reason why we have borders and why we've had borders throughout history. We want to stop others from using up our resources. Would you like someone to walk right into your home and take 10 bucks one day and maybe 50 bucks another? No, thats why you have doors and locks. As citizens of this country we should have access to resources before those that are here illegally. I pay my taxes because I get various community services. Do you think illegals pay taxes? No. However, if there's a medical emergency, we take them into our hospitals knowing that they don't have any insurance or any other means of paying for it. Who do you think pays for it? The tax payers. Its not fair to those that pay their dues.

I have to agree with Satch here.

There isn't much difference between a countries border and a persons home, until the people outside the border can learn to respect the people inside the border, then borders will remain a good thing.

 

[Hazar]

There's a reason why we have borders and why we've had borders throughout history. We want to stop others from using up our resources. Would you like someone to walk right into your home and take 10 bucks one day and maybe 50 bucks another? No, thats why you have doors and locks. As citizens of this country we should have access to resources before those that are here illegally. I pay my taxes because I get various community services. Do you think illegals pay taxes? No. However, if there's a medical emergency, we take them into our hospitals knowing that they don't have any insurance or any other means of paying for it. Who do you think pays for it? The tax payers. Its not fair to those that pay their dues.

do you feel the same way to people of like status who are citizens of your country?

 

[15357]

i say that we need more barbed wires and 10 feet fences made of steel

 

[Sprafa]

There's a reason why we have borders and why we've had borders throughout history. We want to stop others from using up our resources. Would you like someone to walk right into your home and take 10 bucks one day and maybe 50 bucks another? No, thats why you have doors and locks. As citizens of this country we should have access to resources before those that are here illegally. I pay my taxes because I get various community services. Do you think illegals pay taxes? No. However, if there's a medical emergency, we take them into our hospitals knowing that they don't have any insurance or any other means of paying for it. Who do you think pays for it? The tax payers. Its not fair to those that pay their dues.

People from your country do the same thing, yet you don't argue against that.


Let me tell you one thing. The great power your country exerces is largely funded by immigration.

 

[Calanen]

While there are different countries, there will be borders. They will probably turn into large free trade zones, tho like the EU - with America being one, Asia being another, Middle East, and maybe way in the future Africa.

 

[el Chi]

While there are different countries, there will be borders. They will probably turn into large free trade zones, tho like the EU - with America being one, Asia being another, Middle East, and maybe way in the future Africa.

...and those trading unions and mutual benefits lead to these smaller nations getting closer and closer in terms of diplomacy etc. which eventually leads to stronger unions and, history has shown us, larger nation states.

 

[Xenome]

I actually think this is THE solution for the problems in the world..
It worked for America..before they became 'united states', they would have trouble with eachother as well...Now they do not anymore..

Why?

Because it eliminated the 'we/they' feeling. Now the USA see's all of themselves as ONE country..

If the whole world did this..there would be alot less wars.. but I guess it's hard to do..

We're all the same..the so called 'countries' just make us feel like we're not..and make us think that frenchmen are different then germans for example. They're not.

I vote for a one-world government..

 

[JellyWorld]

We're too entrenched in a nationality mentality for this to even be considered.

But even if we weren't, think about it. What if one of those lines bisected friends, family, etc? Not practical on any level

the current lines already bisect friends, family etc. In any case I doubt such lines would serve any purpose other than administrative. I wholly agree that there should be no borders.

 

[JellyWorld]

It would create too much chaos and disorder. Imagine trying to mesh America with 'Red' China. Different beliefs, form of Gov't, etc. etc.

Who says one cannot have a unified superstate with heterogenous beliefs? In fact, the vast differences in beliefs etc were caused by the borders in the first place.

Nationalism is the main reason why I hate the concept of "country". I mean, there's nothing wrong with loving your country, but nationalism forces you to side with your country no matter what. People are told to "fight for you country" in the event of war. If you fight for the other side you are considered a traitor. Why should I be forced to go with one side just because I happened to be born in a certain geographical location? If I fight for Country A I kill people in Country B. If I fight for Country B I kill people in Country A. How is one more "moral" than the other?

People seem to worship the "dulce et decorum pro patria moria" mentality, but they don't seem to realise the repurcussions of that belief. If I was born in Nazi Germany I would be compelled to go around invading other countries. Murdering jews. And that would be the right thing to do. DEDPPM. Eliminating the concept of country would solve that problem. And Xenome put accross his point very well.