Silicon Knights files lawsuit against Epic

[BabyHeadCrab]

For not properly supporting Unreal Engine, failing to meet deadlines on console dk's and delivering a so called gimped version of their product.

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/48041

http://kotaku.com/gaming/busted/unreal-engine-3-half+baked-broken-and-late-280548.php

http://kotaku.com/gaming/breaking/silicon-knights-epic-sabotaged-us-280491.php

"This morning we were served with a lawsuit by Silicon Knights. We believe the claims against us are unfounded and without merit and we intend to fully defend against them," said Rein.

"We'd love to tell you more about it but unfortunately our lawyers want us to save our comments for the courthouse so we're going to do our best to comply with their wishes. In that vein we'd appreciate if our friends in the industry and media would refrain from asking us about the suit because we're only going to say 'no comment.' We just wanted to share the news directly before the rumor mill starts churning."

press release: http://www.shacknews.com/docs/press/20070719_siliconknights_epic.x

full lawsuit: http://www.shacknews.com/extras/siliconknights_epic/siliconknights_epic.pdf

 

[Tagaziel]

Silicon Knights hold the upper ground in this case. It's easier to prove that it doesn't work and was delivered with malicious intent rather than prove it does work.

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

Silicon Knights hold the upper ground in this case. It's easier to prove that it doesn't work and was delivered with malicious intent rather than prove it does work.

Now I would say that, but companies like Ubisoft (who admittedly have a much more diversity and budget) have published popular products under UE3 already, the defense could make the argument that the game suffered other damages in production than just woes on the Unreal / Epic side of things. I assume it will come to whose lawyer can rationalize the technobabble better.

 

[Jintor]

My friend summarised this as "OMG I used your engine which you advertised was awesome to make my game but peoples still complain about it and say that my game sucks obviously it's your engines fault give me money."

Is he accurate?

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

My friend summarised this as "OMG I used your engine which you advertised was awesome to make my game but peoples still complain about it and say that my game sucks obviously it's your engines fault give me money."

Is he accurate?

Hmm, not at all it seems, the complaints aren't so much based upon consumer feedback as much as development struggles and outright lack of features, and on top of that an apparent lack of any kind of support from Epic. Though the claims are a bit over the top like your friends suggests, they even accuse epic of using engine sales to fund development thus ignoring support for engine sales, and that damages should be awarded based on Gears of War sales.

We'll see how legit the claims are though. The fact is, nobody knows how Too Human plays because development has been excruciatingly slow and painful.

 

[Stigmata]

Based on what I've read so far, and assuming Silicon Knights aren't filing a frivolous and essentially self-destructive suit, then no, it's nothing like that.

 

[Jintor]

Ok. Sorry for asking, but my brain hurts to much to think legally.

 

[Cerpin]

Maybe Epic will retract their license, putting Too Human on ice.

 

[Xune]

Too Human is currently being developed on an in-house engine, so it wouldn't make a difference.

 

[IchI]

My friend summarised this as "OMG I used your engine which you advertised was awesome to make my game but peoples still complain about it and say that my game sucks obviously it's your engines fault give me money."

Is he accurate?

Urrr nope, its note the engine itself I think its what brings the Unreal Engine to life on other platforms. Its obvious there is no structure in place that works to get games using the Unreal Engine onto the PS3. This is obvious by the fact that all the titles using it on the PS3 have been delayed but have already been released by the 360.

You never know, may be its Micosoft trying to cripple the PS3

 

[Cerpin]

Too Human is currently being developed on an in-house engine, so it wouldn't make a difference.

I'm pretty sure they're using a modified version of UE3.

 

[Asknoone]

I don't like Mark Rein.

 

[Gray Fox]

Why would you say such a thing?

 

[Xune]

I'm pretty sure they're using a modified version of UE3.

They were. Although rumor, given the current situation I highly doubt they'll stick with UE3.

 

[rAdIOhEaD]

didn't you guys heard the 1up podcast interview with the lead developer of silicon knight a few months ago?, He was so pissed during the interview because one the 1up guys said the the build from the game he played was really choppy and crappy, anyways, the developer said that he wouldn't show the game anymore to the public until is done, and he kept on ranting about E3 and Game media etc etc etc, you could tell that something was really wrong with this game and they were having problems putting this game together...

 

[L3adCannon]

Yep, sadly, it is easier to prove that the thing is flawed, than that it is not.
Lucky for Epic, their engine is known to breed the best games out there, a bloody good trackrecord.

Who knows, maybe it`s a dirty move by MS, or Epic is intentionally doing it (PS3). Or they are trying to **** consoles over, PC gaming is what made them after all , never know.

Imo, its bs. Why wouldn`t Epic support if they made the ****ing engine and want people to license it, want it to be a success.

Game not meeting the requirements, start-up time that is.
I wonder who`s fault that is. Just cause they want to use the engine in a different way than GoW and all the other bloody games did did, doesn`t matter it`s Epics fault when something ****s up.

Developers fault I say.

 

[^Ben]

Failing to deliver a working engine on a contractual date is the main crux of the lawsuit. And if it was delivered late then it's all on Epic.

3 months of development time wasted due to a non functional engine is a ton of moneyz.

 

[Icarusintel]

Update: Denis Dyack, president of Silicon Knights, said in his own press release Thursday that the Unreal Engine 3 did not work as Epic represented it would and that "Epic has been unable or unwilling" to fix the problems.

"Our strong preference is to focus on making games, not be in court, Dyack said. "Unfortunately though, as explained in our lawsuit, we have had extensive problems with the Unreal Engine 3 that Epic has been unwilling or unable to rectify. For more than a year, we have been trying to reach an agreement with Epic to resolve these issues without resorting to litigation, but were unable to come to reasonable terms with Epic. Regrettably, we are now forced to go to court in order to achieve satisfaction. We remain hopeful, however, that we can reach a reasonable business resolution with Epic at some point."

The Silicon Knights release goes on to accuse Epic of selling its unfinished middleware to developers and using those companies' licensing fees to fund Gears of War - at the expense of fixing Unreal Engine 3's alleged problems.

"No doubt Gears is a fun and phenomenally successful game, but as we alleged in our complaint against them, we strongly believe that from the perspective of someone waiting for a game engine that Epic promised it would deliver almost two years ago, it seems pretty clear that Gears was built on the backs of the Unreal Engine licensees. We certainly stand by our allegations in the lawsuit that instead of using our licensing fees to develop and support the Unreal Engine 3, Epic used that money to build Gears," Dyack said.

If those claims are true then Epic will not win this. They signed a contract which they are obligated, by law, to fulfill. So long as Silicon Knights has the proper evidence then this will be open and shut. Something tells me other developers may follow suit.

 

[Krynn72]

This makes me

Heres another link:
http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=16868

 

[Absinthe]

I really don't like Dyack's penchant for hysterical outbursts. We get it. Too Human wasn't the dreamboat everybody thought it would be when it was shown at E3. It stings, but get used to it. Everybody else does.

That said the lawsuit sounds solid. If Epic had a contractual agreement and failed to live up to their end of it, then more power to SK.

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

Be some shit if they used the Source engine...

 

[boglito]

Silicon seeks several concessions from their licensor, including a negation of the original licensing agreement, the unrestricted legal right to alter the engine, and, most significantly, forfiture of all profits gained through sales of Epic's Gears of War to Silicon Knights in the form of awarded damages.

No way in hell is this going down.

.bog.

 

[Absinthe]

Oh shit, missed that part.

Epic's gonna get nasty if settlements are off the table.

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

Microsoft owns parts of that game aswell. If I was SK I'd not try and go after that game if I were them...MS will sick their own lawyers on them.

 

[Stigmata]

I'm pretty sure they're only after Epic's profits, SK would have to be completely insane to bring Microsoft into this.

 

[Javert]

I wouldn't be surprised if Epic's attitude was why R6: Vegas was so ridiculously demanding and un-optimized on the PC.

 

[Krynn72]

What sense does it make to go after their Gears of War profits? It doesnt sound like that would hold up well, since it had nothing to do with their contract. If anything they would get something for damages and lost sales, but thats all.

 

[StardogChampion]

I wouldn't be surprised if Epic's attitude was why R6: Vegas was so ridiculously demanding and un-optimized on the PC.

And why Roboblitz looks like shit and runs like shit.

 

[Stigmata]

What sense does it make to go after their Gears of War profits? It doesnt sound like that would hold up well, since it had nothing to do with their contract. If anything they would get something for damages and lost sales, but thats all.

I think it's just because Epic used the money that they should have used to fund the UE3 SDK to instead fund Gears of War's in-house development.

If Silicon Knights is right about this, then I'm going to lose a ton of respect for Epic.

 

[L3adCannon]

No way in hell is this going down.

.bog.

If they win then they will, and much more.

To be honest, GoW does run and look better than other UE3 games, makes you wonder, doesn`t it.

Even if they did use the licensing money to develop Gears instead of supporting the SDK, they still haven`t ****ed the fans (PC) which I think is still their savior.

Epic also told MS to f off on the Vista Live part, which also doesn`t make their relations better. MS would be happy to get what they want, this lawsuit is one of em.