Sir Winston Churchill On Islam

  • Thread starter ModerateCentrist
  • Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

ModerateCentrist

Guest
http://www.winstonchurchill.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=137

from The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248 50 (London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899).

How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property either as a child, a wife, or a concubine must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen; all know how to die; but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science the science against which it had vainly struggled the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome.
Click to expand...
 
kmack said:
i think bush said that too
Click to expand...
Actually the liar Bush said "Islam is a religion of peace." Bush has obviously never read the Quran or he would know that Islam is a religion of hate.
 
I don't actually think that theres anything quite wrong with what he says, he just happens to say it in a very non-PC way for our times.
He's simply expressing annoyance at how Islamic countries treat their citizens and (especially women) unjustly. All things considered, he had a point. Churchhill was no fool.
 
To be fair, great although Winston Churchill was, he was a racist, which was common in those times.

Additionally he referred to Ghandi as a dirty man in pyjamas.
Ghandi is now reflected on as being a great man in history.

So even Churchill can be wrong.
 
Direwolf said:
I don't actually think that theres anything quite wrong with what he says, he just happens to say it in a very non-PC way for our times.
He's simply expressing annoyance at how Islamic countries treat their citizens and (especially women) unjustly. All things considered, he had a point. Churchhill was no fool.
Click to expand...

or how the US treats its citizens, we were one of the only places (until last year) where juveniles could be sentenced to death.

saying islam is a religion of hate is a ruthless (and incorrect stereotype).

i could just as easily (and probably more correctly) call christianity a religion of hate. they hate women who have abortions, they hate homosexuals, they waged holy wars against muslims.
 
There are many different Islams, just as there are many different Christianities. For a long time many people believed that it was necessary for Europe to throw off the dead hand of the Roman Catholic Church in order to advance from the Middle Ages -- see Weber's Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism.

The Christianity of the Middle Ages is now dead. Modern Christianity has adapted very well to secularism, and has in practice given up many of the barbaric and backward practices enjoined on us by the Bible. These are simply ignored, and in his day to day life it is very difficult to tell the Baptist from the atheist.

This is what we must encourage with Islam. People who simply say "Hate Islam" are playing directly into the hands of our enemies. (I would not be surprised if militant Islamists don't monitor these Boards and grab and publicize among their believers every such example.) A moderate and modernizing Islam already exists, and we must support it against the fundamentalists.
 
kmack said:
or how the US treats its citizens, we were one of the only places (until last year) where juveniles could be sentenced to death.

saying islam is a religion of hate is a ruthless (and incorrect stereotype).

i could just as easily (and probably more correctly) call christianity a religion of hate. they hate women who have abortions, they hate homosexuals, they waged holy wars against muslims.
Click to expand...

Ok, let's not feed the troll.
 
kmack said:
or how the US treats its citizens, we were one of the only places (until last year) where juveniles could be sentenced to death.
.
Click to expand...
Irrelevant, although I have to wonder when's the last time a juvenile got sentenced to death.
 
Direwolf said:
Irrelevant, although I have to wonder when's the last time a juvenile got sentenced to death.
Click to expand...

1976.

and if you read what i was responding to, it is not irrelevant.
 
Churchill was indeed no fool. He had deep, empathetic insight into other cultures. Read some of his other books, such as My Early Life, with its assessment of the Pathans; or Great Contemporaries, with his assessment of the Kaiser and the Germans; or his analysis of Japan in History of the Second World War, Volume III.

Churchill was a great and ruthless warrior, and a political animal. Facing a world of one billion Muslims, he would probably, had he the power, have had anyone "on our side" who was blackguarding the lot of them, objectively trying to drive them together and prevent splits from developing among them, shot.
 
kirovman said:
To be fair, great although Winston Churchill was, he was a racist, which was common in those times.

Additionally he referred to Ghandi as a dirty man in pyjamas.
Ghandi is now reflected on as being a great man in history.

So even Churchill can be wrong.
Click to expand...


I would have to agree with that, Churchill might be one of the greatest figures in British history and in world history, he did have his downsides, like everyone for that matter.

I believe there was also an incident where a load of bank robbers or criminals were locked inside a house and were in a gun battle with police who were outside, the house caught fire and Churchill ordered that the police do not try to rescue the criminals, the criminals were burnt to death. Not sure if that is exactly what happened, but that is the jist of it.

But like i said, even though he did say and do things that were pretty bad, it still doesn't compare to the way he ran England during some of the darkest days of the whole of British history, which goes back thousands of years.

edit: However, i do find myself agreeing partly with what Churchill said in the original quote. It is a society that is very disrespectful to women really doesn't allow their society to grew anywhere near as quickly as a progressive and open society as we in the west enjoy.
 
ModerateCentrist said:
Actually the liar Bush said "Islam is a religion of peace." Bush has obviously never read the Quran or he would know that Islam is a religion of hate.
Click to expand...

You're a flippin' moron. Ta.
 
kmack said:
1976.

and if you read what i was responding to, it is not irrelevant.
Click to expand...
Not exactly what I'd call recent, but its not really important.

But back on topic, Churchill here is talking about broad social trends and cultural outlooks that he feels are harming those who live in Islamic countries. I don't exactly see what that has to do with the US having a law on the books that permits the death penalty for minors, since we're not talking about the death penalty, the US, minors, or even legislation. It sounds a bit more like you're trying to stir up a reaction.
 
I agree with churchill there, but i could say the same about any large organised religion, even Christianity and its views. Religion in general hinders the progression of an open and free society.
 
I'd agree, but I'd qualify it by saying religion thats gotten out of hand does that. A little faith can be a good thing.
 
Everyone should have their own beliefs, its just when that belief has power and influence on the society as a whole, is when you get problems.
 
I have no problem with religion as a personal thing. Its when people start taking their beliefs (i.e. not facts) and enforcing them on others. I hate it when people (well, organisations mostly) use their moral code as some kind of blueprint for laws that are to be enforced on everyone else.

For example, Pope John Paul II's lies that condoms cause HIV and AIDS. Those lies, perpetrated solely to push his catholic anti-contraception agenda, are responsible for a huge number of HIV infected people (and their children) in Africa.
 
kmack said:
or how the US treats its citizens, we were one of the only places (until last year) where juveniles could be sentenced to death.

saying islam is a religion of hate is a ruthless (and incorrect stereotype).

i could just as easily (and probably more correctly) call christianity a religion of hate. they hate women who have abortions, they hate homosexuals, they waged holy wars against muslims.
Click to expand...
They don't hate.
 
ModerateCentrist said:
Actually the liar Bush said "Islam is a religion of peace." Bush has obviously never read the Quran or he would know that Islam is a religion of hate.
Click to expand...

and your religion isnt? didnt you create a thread in your forum about god performing miracles for a teenager who wanted to die? sorry but you're not eactly "the voice of reason"

from the webiste you linked to:

"Dedicated to the defense of America and the Holy Land from the Satanic Saracen horde of hateful Arab Muslim Sand Nazi terrorist infidels. "

real balanced source there chuckles :rolling:
 
CptStern said:
and your religion isnt? didnt you create a thread in your forum about god performing miracles for a teenager who wanted to die? sorry but you're not eactly "the voice of reason"

from the webiste you linked to:

"Dedicated to the defense of America and the Holy Land from the Satanic Saracen horde of hateful Arab Muslim Sand Nazi terrorist infidels. "

real balaced source there chuckles :rolling:
Click to expand...
im guessing mod.centrist is 1 of the guys from that other site where bod goes.
 
jimbo118 said:
im guessing mod.centrist is 1 of the guys from that other site where bod goes.
Click to expand...

yes, makes bod look like an uber-liberal
 
Mohammed was one hell of a scam artist, I will tell yuo that much, He basdically took the old testament, reworded it, and added killing infedels.
 
dont you have a protest to crash or something? polish your jackboots? pray to your almighty god? ...seriously what are you doing here?
 
I always thought it would be cool to get a pair of jackboots and pretend to crush people. Use toy soldiers or something. :D
 
yes pretending is one thing ...actually doing it is another :E
 
ModerateCentrist said:
Bush has obviously never read the Quran or he would know that Islam is a religion of hate.
Click to expand...

Have you? If you had, then you would find that it's very similar to the Bible, in fact, its moral values are almost exactly the same as those of Christianity.
 
Most people that claim the Quran disseminates teachings of hate haven't read shit from it. They'll take quotes out of their context.

I think the most popular snippet is one where it says you should wage a jihad against your enemies. However, people conveniently leave out the part where it says you should do so only out of self-defense.
 
BenjaminH0gie said:
Mohammed was one hell of a scam artist, I will tell yuo that much, He basdically took the old testament, reworded it, and added killing infedels.
Click to expand...

I ask you, what do you base such a comment on? I tell you I am Muslim, and while I do think your view is ignorant, I am interested to find out where you picked up such a view.
 
The_Monkey said:
Have you? If you had, then you would find that it's very similar to the Bible, in fact, its moral values are almost exactly the same as those of Christianity.
Click to expand...
Obviously you have never read the Quran or the Hadith. The Bible and Quran have certain historical facts in common, however Jesus said love your enemies, do unto others etc., and never murdered anyone. Mohammed was a mass murderer and serial rapist. www.prophetofdoom.net
 
I like how no one can prove him wrong. There doesnt exist a nation governed by Islam that has come very close to our definition of success. There are stable nations in the middle east (particularly), like the UAE, but its the exception not the rule.
 
Bait said:
I ask you, what do you base such a comment on? I tell you I am Muslim, and while I do think your view is ignorant, I am interested to find out where you picked up such a view.
Click to expand...
You might claim to be Muslim but the truth is you are most likely a fraud and if you are not a fraud you are an apostate and Allah says in the Quran (the 9th Sura) that he will personally torment you in Hell if you don't wage perpetual jihad against infidels.
 
PersecutedMonk said:
Obviously you have never read the Quran or the Hadith. The Bible and Quran have certain historical facts in common, however Jesus said love your enemies, do unto others etc., and never murdered anyone. Mohammed was a mass murderer and serial rapist. www.prophetofdoom.net
Click to expand...

Really? Let's just see how loving and ethical Jesus really is.
 
Yes, because you're the authority on Islam theology. I think I'm going to trust the person who is the Muslim here...
 
gh0st said:
I like how no one can prove him wrong. There doesnt exist a nation governed by Islam that has come very close to our definition of success. There are stable nations in the middle east (particularly), like the UAE, but its the exception not the rule.
Click to expand...

Just spit it out already. Do you think the teachings of Islam are essentially teachings of hate? Is it not a matter of interpretation? Is there conclusive evidence that the Quran condones violence and intolerance? More relevant: Does it teach these things moreso than other religions?

I shouldn't even have to list off the countless atrocities Christianity has given impetus for, but I'm not going to say that Christianity itself is evil or that it condones such things. There's more to a stable nation than the religious element, and to think otherwise is to be ignorant.
 
gh0st said:
I like how no one can prove him wrong. There doesnt exist a nation governed by Islam that has come very close to our definition of success. There are stable nations in the middle east (particularly), like the UAE, but its the exception not the rule.
Click to expand...

where would the US be without their oil?

no one can prove him right either, he was a racist, and those things are hateful, islam is no more a religion of hate or less success than any other religion.
 
Are all these guys from Protest-Warrior or something? Because I'm beginning to wish that their little "surprise" visit never took place.

BTW, does that word really require censoring?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top