Size of Headcrabs, Attached vs Un-Attached

[HyperionCC]

Anyone ever notice the proportional size difference of headcrabs when they are unattached vs Attached to the head of a zombie?

It seems like when they are unattached they are rather quite small, but when they are on the heads of zombies they are rather quite large.

Has anyone ese noticed this??

 

[unique]

if really, i never thought of it, but know if thinking about that, you might be right.

by the way, you said 'attached to head of a zombie', well, i think it's wrong, cuz, until zombie isn't attached, there's no zombie, there is seperate headcrab and a human

 

[Crushenator 500]

Well they would be bigger wouldn't they, considering they're stretched around some guy's head.

 

[sfc_hoot]

I always thought that the on-zombie-headcrabs were bigger than the normal ones. I was never actually sure if it was just bad modelling or if it was meant to be that way.

 

[HyperionCC]

if really, i never thought of it, but know if thinking about that, you might be right.

by the way, you said 'attached to head of a zombie', well, i think it's wrong, cuz, until zombie isn't attached, there's no zombie, there is seperate headcrab and a human

LOL, You got me there! But you see what I mean right? They seem huge, and they look even bigger in the concept art pictures.

Well they would be bigger wouldn't they, considering they're stretched around some guy's head.

Not necesscarilly(right spelling?) They do seem genuinely bigger, not just stretched. They seem bigger in length, width and height. Streched would imply longer length, longer width, & shorter height.

 

[NJspeed]

Its cause their stretched around the guys head but also cuz their feeding off them, so they get bigger, just like if you were skinny and starving and then you found a huge feast to live off of for days.

 

[HyperionCC]

Its cause their stretched around the guys head but also cuz their feeding off them, so they get bigger, just like if you were skinny and starving and then you found a huge feast to live off of for days.

Then it stands to reason, based on your post..that the headcrabs change people & feed off of them. Which would lead them to grow larger, correct? Based on that conclusion that would lead to a second conclusion that if Ravenholme was left alone for long enough time all the zombies would be dead because the headcrabs would keep feeding off of them. Kind of like the movie "28 Days" If this is true why would Father Grigori even bother killing zombies then, if he could just "wait them out"?

 

[Edcrab]

Same reason zombies got splattered in "28 Days Later"- survival. And his misguided pledge to protect his flock

Normal headcrabs seem to feed off the human brain and nervous system, gradually replacing it with its own genetic material (and eventually producing the next stage of mutation, the Gonome).

Fast zombies seem to rot at a greatly accelerated rate- perhaps they're from a Combine-modified headcrab? They don't have any visible feeding apparatus, so presumably the headcrab causes the body to atrophy as it draws on nutrients, reaching the point where its had its fill and dies/detatches/evolves to the next theoretical stage.

 

[Freyar]

Heh, I'm usually screaming from the damned neurotoxins to really worry about it, but yeah.. your theory sounds pretty good.

 

[NJspeed]

Then it stands to reason, based on your post..that the headcrabs change people & feed off of them. Which would lead them to grow larger, correct? Based on that conclusion that would lead to a second conclusion that if Ravenholme was left alone for long enough time all the zombies would be dead because the headcrabs would keep feeding off of them. Kind of like the movie "28 Days" If this is true why would Father Grigori even bother killing zombies then, if he could just "wait them out"?

Umm well in response to your first question.. yes they change people and feed off of them. How do you think that the zombies grew their extra large fingers or claws? What about the huge gaping mouth with teeth that emerge on the hosts stomach? Why would the zombies go after Gordon? To eat him of course. That doesn't mean they would starve to death if they didn't kill him, but everything has to eat or gain energy in some way.. And yeah maybe Father Grigori could just wait them out, if he had years to wait. Who knows how long it takes? These 'zombies' aren't true undead.. they are dead humans being controlled by a living headcrab. Obviously the headcrabs attach for a reason.. feeding and maybe reproduction. Who knows? I'm speculating, but I didn't make that second conclusion, you did.

 

[HyperionCC]

Umm well in response to your first question.. yes they change people and feed off of them. How do you think that the zombies grew their extra large fingers or claws? What about the huge gaping mouth with teeth that emerge on the hosts stomach? Why would the zombies go after Gordon? To eat him of course. That doesn't mean they would starve to death if they didn't kill him, but everything has to eat or gain energy in some way.. And yeah maybe Father Grigori could just wait them out, if he had years to wait. Who knows how long it takes? These 'zombies' aren't true undead.. they are dead humans being controlled by a living headcrab. Obviously the headcrabs attach for a reason.. feeding and maybe reproduction. Who knows? I'm speculating, but I didn't make that second conclusion, you did.

LOL, This has to be the most serious discussion I've ever had about crabs...Headcrabs I mean...

Your theory does sound good, but it would stand to reason that something being "undead" could last longer than something that is living ie person & headcrab (Ohh No...Who knows where that statement is gonna land me, Possibility of new thread strong)

I agree with you that everything has to feed, and they go after Gordon to feed. I was thinking that the Headcrab would not feed off the person, but rather get "food" via the human its attached to. I don't think it would want to kill the host that could provide it food. Its more of a mutation process than anything else which leads to the fingers/claws & chest.

So, that means Headcrabs definitely attach for food, not reproduction. Besides, wasn't there something in HL1 that spawned Headcrabs?

My second conclusion was based on your theory,

Its cause their stretched around the guys head but also cuz their feeding off them, so they get bigger, just like if you were skinny and starving and then you found a huge feast to live off of for days.

that the headcrabs were feeding on their hosts. From which I followed to the conclusion to host death over time if the headcrab keeps feeding on the host. Its a direct conclusion, in theory. Hence the "28 Days" reference. Whats does everyone else think???

:cheers:

 

[Angry Lawyer]

The headcrabs do seem to feed in part on their hosts, but the reason they attach is more for self-defense than anything else. And keeping a host alive by feeding it (abeit through the chest cavity) is better than having it starve, and having to find another one.

It could also be something really simple - like the headcrab model was originally larger, but Valve scaled it down - but the scaled down one didn't fit on the bloke's head. So, they had different ones for Zombies and unattached, and hoped nobody would notice...

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Reginald]

Just my little contribution....the thing on their stomachs isn't a mouth...tis the ribs with ye olde organs behind....

And another Headcrab dilema....what did they attatch themselves to on Xen? Vortigaunts? If so, why don't we fight Votrigaunt zombies? If this was answered in the first game, don't mind me....I am still finishing it.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

The ribs and organs are slowly being replaced by a stomach - hence the nickname 'mawmen', and the way in the original game they'd shove bits of dead scientist in their mouth.

Perhaps Headcrabs couldn't clamp very well because of Vortigaunt collars?

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Eejit]

The ribs and organs are slowly being replaced by a stomach - hence the nickname 'mawmen', and the way in the original game they'd shove bits of dead scientist in their mouth.

Perhaps Headcrabs couldn't clamp very well because of Vortigaunt collars?

-Angry Lawyer

Or because Vortigaunts could shoot that green electricity at them. i.e. they've got better self defense than (unarmed) humans.
Maybe they attach to vortigaunts on Xen, but humans make easier prey?

 

[kirovman]

As others have said:

It's got a human head inside it, of course it's bigger, have you seen the size of a human head lately? Add that to the size of the headcrab.

Simple conservation of mass :frog:

 

[NJspeed]

The Vortigaunts, after living with headcrabs for so long, probably are immune to them in some way. I imagine they can just zap em as soon as they get touched. Either this or theres some other natural defense. This is a stupid example but imagine if aliens came down and landed outside a bear cave.. the bears might not like the smell or the noise and attack them. The same bear might smell humans and run the other way. Animals on earth are scared of us for the most part, because they've learned, and its now part of their instinct, even if we are smaller and have less natural defenses, they know we will own them. I imagine it's the same with the vortigaunts.

Another question I've had is whether or not the human hosts are actually still alive. Theres been a lot of headcrab and zombie threads, and nobody even really discusses this. Personally I feel the human host is dead, although the body may be somewhat 'alive' due to the headcrab controlling their nervous system or something. You can also call this undead.... However I could be wrong, and there might be human conciousness left in the hosts body. It DOES kind of sound like the zombies are attempting to talk.. (sometimes sound like they are saying 'whyyyyyyy') this could be the human trying to come through, or just a result of the headcrab fiddling with the nervous system and the host making vague human sounds..

 

[(Fragger)]

They look bigger but they're not. It's exactly the same model. You can tell when you have headcrabs and zombies in the same room, you kill a zombie and the headcrab gets detached and lands next to another headcrab. Same size.

 

[HyperionCC]

They look bigger but they're not. It's exactly the same model. You can tell when you have headcrabs and zombies in the same room, you kill a zombie and the headcrab gets detached and lands next to another headcrab. Same size.

So that would mean that your refuting the theory of the headcrab feeding off the host and getting bigger?? I mean if they're the same size what does that mean about the headcrab/person relationship???? :O

 

[(Fragger)]

A headcrab is about the size of a large turkey. If you're into comedy or into Mr. Bean, you'll remember the episode where he stuck his head into a turkey. The turkey didn't expand and his head fit through the opening.
A headcrab has no visible organs, since it's mostly a mouth with legs, so a head would fit into one with room to spare. I think people see them bigger when they're attached to zombies because then they have a reference, something to compare them with.

 

[Freyar]

I think people see them bigger when they're attached to zombies because then they have a reference, something to compare them with.

When the headcrabs attack and get really close to the "Camera" or head of gordon, they don't look to be big enough to envelope his head... So... I'm not exactly sure there.

 

[NeonSpyder]

i also consider the human hosts to still be alive.. well, alive in the strictest sense that blood is still flowing and their organs are still pumping, albiet drastically altered by the alien parasite. it is really quite fascinating how the xenoform actually operates, and the whole "why" to it is quite amazing. there are uncountable hypothises that we could discuss, and i for one will enjoy discussing them.

so far i consider the host alive, possibly 'awake' so to speak, but unlikely.

 

[rocklegendfm99]

Then it stands to reason, based on your post..that the headcrabs change people & feed off of them. Which would lead them to grow larger, correct? Based on that conclusion that would lead to a second conclusion that if Ravenholme was left alone for long enough time all the zombies would be dead because the headcrabs would keep feeding off of them. Kind of like the movie "28 Days" If this is true why would Father Grigori even bother killing zombies then, if he could just "wait them out"?

it's more fun shooting them

 

[Danimal]

I beleive the hosts are still alive, at first, they will be fully alive. The headcrab would have some form of organ coming out of the mouth big enough to fit down the throat of the victum but breaking the jaw of him/her (Thus the disoriented speech) Maybe after a few hours/days, the victum could no longer take the pain of the mutation and die, but only brain-dead. The headcrab then acts as the brain, controlling the body, nerves and organs.

I can't explain the 'mouth' or 'opening' on the chest/torso though.

 

[sfc_hoot]

I can't explain the 'mouth' or 'opening' on the chest/torso though.

Since the headcrab latches itself over the entire head, the only way for the Zombie to feed would be by shoving the food directly into its stomach.

 

[kingsize]

The turkey didn't expand and his head fit through the opening.
A headcrab has no visible organs, since it's mostly a mouth with legs, so a head would fit into one with room to spare.

Maybe it acts like a snake. when they swallow something big the skin or body is flexible an it expands , so if a headcrab attaches on to a head an goes all over the head it expandes it self. and youve seen dead people there that seem to have this small only skull/blood head it might be that headcrabs use hydrogenchlorideacid (which humans have in their stomach) to digest or corrode? (dont now the words in english) the head. ( Maybe not )

When the headcrabs attack and get really close to the "Camera" or head of gordon, they don't look to be big enough to envelope his head... So... I'm not exactly sure there.

Maybe they are first like facehuggers and only attach to the face

 

[Sid Burn]

of course they will be bigger compared wen unattached... since they will be fitting a human head inside their tummy.

 

[HyperionCC]

i also consider the human hosts to still be alive.. well, alive in the strictest sense that blood is still flowing and their organs are still pumping, albiet drastically altered by the alien parasite. it is really quite fascinating how the xenoform actually operates, and the whole "why" to it is quite amazing. there are uncountable hypothises that we could discuss, and i for one will enjoy discussing them.

so far i consider the host alive, possibly 'awake' so to speak, but unlikely.

Maybe the host are still alive..but are going through some "mutation" that is changing them ie the chest "mouth, and hands/claws. All the while the are awake on some level but there mind is being controlled by the xenomorph.

One question...I think that the host body becomes dependent on the headcrab for keeping it "alive" & if the headcrab were try to be removed the host body would die. Anyone agree/disagree??

 

[Great Grizzly]

i agree.

the gaping hole is where they feed and store food to give to the queen. big momma

 

[HadouKen24]

I thought it was pretty clear that the people being headcrabbed are conscious. Hence the screams of "NEVER!" and "WHY??" It just happens that their bodies, via the nervous system, are under the complete control of a headcrab. Removal probably would mean death, if the crab has control over their nervous system.

 

[ríomhaire]

There is a parasite here on Earth that takes comtrol of crabs and another one that takes control of snails.

 

[cabbs]

I dont know how they feed etc, but i know this stuff:

Headcrabs are by definition a parasite, they live off of the host body, without killing (the body), but the host gets no benefit from this.

With the fast zombie, it kills off all 'dead weight' organs: fat, intestines, and , of course, (the biggest dead weight organ of them all ! ) the brain (so the 'person' is dead), so it can operate as easily as possible.

With the poison zombie, the neuro-toxin should kill the host, but not the body, (toxin only affecting the neurones in the brain, otherwise no movement).

Normal zombies im unsure about, they have no reason to kill the host mind, so they probably only bypass the brain, and tap straight into the body. So host is conscious, but not in control.

ON TOPIC STUFF:
I dont think that headcrabs are much bigger, its just that they are angled slightly forward when on a host body.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

The Poison Headcrab's Neurotoxin has rather adverse affects on the body - massive swelling and tumor growth.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[NJspeed]

I figured it out. They get so engorged with blood that they swell up when their on a host. They must feed on blood which would explain why zombies are always real bloody and in real bloody areas.

 

[NJspeed]

I thought it was pretty clear that the people being headcrabbed are conscious. Hence the screams of "NEVER!" and "WHY??" It just happens that their bodies, via the nervous system, are under the complete control of a headcrab. Removal probably would mean death, if the crab has control over their nervous system.

I actually have been thinking about this recently and they can't be alive still. I'll tell you why you know their dead:

toxic waste.

Theres several points in the game where zombies emerge from toxic waste... Gordon can't survive in it for 5 seconds even with his HEV suit, so it's unlikely a human with a headcrab on his head could indefinately. However just because toxic waste kills your life force, it doesn't mean it dissolves your body. So yeah the human body still exists and it's being controlled by the head crab, but theres no human conciousness left. It sounds like they say "Never" and "Why" but it's really hard to say 100% thats what their saying, and its not just a wierd sounding moan. Like I said in an above post, the sounds produced are probably just a side effect of the crab affecting the hosts nervous system. Just like you pull of a spiders leg and they still move, the crab somehow makes the host produce an unintelligable form of speech.

 

[NJspeed]

They look bigger but they're not. It's exactly the same model. You can tell when you have headcrabs and zombies in the same room, you kill a zombie and the headcrab gets detached and lands next to another headcrab. Same size.

If you've ever actually done that, you'd clearly see that the detached crab is definately smaller than an attached one. I actually performed this test yesterday before I even read this post.

I don't think their the same model either. A zombie is one model.. not two.

 

[meganox]

Right at the start of HL1 there's a scientist sitting in a corridor with a headcrab on him, if you beat it with the crowbar it comes off. They're two seperate models, and the crab is the same size as an unattached one, and seems plenty big enough to swallow a head. The scientist apears to be dead, but it's possible he's under the influence of a neurotoxin designed to incapacitate him while the crab engulfs his head (I tend to end his misery at this point, just in case), like a snake with a detachable jaw it can accomodate the head - this doesn't mean it's growing by feeding on him. The crab then takes control of the host's motor nervous system. At this early stage the host may be (I believe they are) still concious and probably in a great deal of pain, and it would appear that he is still capable of moaning. Now there's only one model, and the crab is a little bigger than head-sized. About the size of a crab surrounding a head, IMO.

The crab, being fairly small, doesn't need a lot of food (or possibly none - perhaps they die if they don't find a host soon enough) to keep it alive; once attached to a host, however, it will need enough energy to keep the host functioning. Since it has evolved to prey on many different species (I assume, although I've only seen them attack humans), it probably has many ways of adapting a host's digestive system to meet this requirement. A direct entrance to the gut with a split ribcage for teeth seems to me like an efficient use of resources. Reminds me very much of the scene in Carpenter's The Thing where they're shocking a 'dead' guy and his chest opens up and bites off the doctor's hands. Classy. Don't forget, the 'zombies' don't need to live long enough to reproduce since headcrabs are born from a 'queen', they do however need to live long enough to further the crab colony. How they do this on Xen is a mystery, and no crab 'queens' have been encountered on Earth, to the best of my knowledge.

As for the question of whether the 'zombie' is 'alive', that is a moot point. His muscles work, he seems to be able to consume food to convert to energy, and he may even take part in the crab's reproductive cycle in some way. He's certainly a living being - if he's dead why would you need to shoot him? I just pray to God he's not concious. His immunity to toxic waste probably arises from the parasite - many species on Xen produce highly toxic chemicals (e.g. the bullsquid), as well as electromagnetic forces way beyond any stingray or electric eel.

As for the lack of Vortigaunt 'zombies', don't forget that no species in the universe evolves in isolation: Snakes prey on mongeese, mongeese have evolved to group together to present a profile to the snake that looks like a single animal that the snake thinks is too big to eat, and hence the mongeese as a group can now prey on the snake! It's likely that the Vorts' energy attack has evolved its potency because of the environment on Xen, which is much more inhospitable than Earth's, and that successful crab attacks on Vorts became so infrequent that the Vorts just aren't considered suitable hosts and the crabs leave them alone. There are no truly omniverous species - I've never seen a Pit Worm zombie, for instance, and Terran evolution is full of examples of parasites which prey on only one specific other species. I'm reminded of Australia, which seperated from the rest of the continents at a very early stage and where an evolutionary arms race began which has lead to many species with poison attacks that are ten thousand times more potent than they need to be to kill their prey. No-one has an explanation for why this is so, but it seems also to be the case on Xen. Except Australia's fauna's probably weirder.

In conclusion, evolution is a dynamic process that is happening all around us, all the time, and while it may seem slow compared to a single human lifetime, great changes can happen very quickly if the evolutionary landscape changes suddenly, which tends to happen on a global scale every couple of thousand decades. The introduction of a single alien species into a different habitat can have an effect which to us seems 'devastating', but nature has a way of restoring the balance, given time.

So, don't resist, join with the Combine; it's just natural evolution.

Your friend, Wallace Breen.

 

[HyperionCC]

Kudos to Cabbs & NJspeed for all your insightful comments.

I never thought about the swelling of the headcrab due to it taking in the host's blood. Just like a leech or tick swells when it feeds on blood also.

I'm glad everyone is performing the headcrab attached vs attached test. Back to work for me, until later... :cheers:

 

[JavaByte]

I was wondering as i've never seen a AntLion cub is it possible that Headcrabs are a junior AntLion.

 

[cabbs]

err, no. Antlion is a seperate species:

Headcrabs go from baby crab, to crab, then if they live long enough (unlikely), they'll eventually be a Gonarch.

Zombies eventually go to Gonomes (not in game).