So the machines come, what about our economy?

[HunterSeeker]

Consider this, in 50 or 60 years into the future we might very well have machines that can do pretty much everything a human can do equally well if not better and at MUCH cheaper prices. What will this mean for the average worker?

We are not just talking about the prouduction industry (that is being outsourced anyway) but large areas of the service industry as well, you mights say that many people would prefer that humans did many services. You are correct but that might not be the case in the future, in fact I would not be suprised if those feelings would be much weaker in 50 or 60 years. Besides I think it would be difficult for any worker to compete against something that could do the workers job better at 1/10 of the workers wage.

Personally, I think this is just a matter of time (assuming our society does not collapse due to global warming or whatever). How do you think this will be handled? How do you think it would best be handled?

 

[Solaris]

I've thought about this, hopefully capitalism will collapse and we'll live in a socialist paradise where no-one works. Otherwise it will be a dystopian totalitarian nightmare where there are un-imaginably rich people and alot of poor people with nothing to do.

 

[The Monkey]

If the machines to all our work we can have holiday 365 days a week. What's the problem?

 

[15357]

I think people would start destroying machines in protest, there will be civil war and the like.

 

[kirovman]

Well, it's not going to be a revolution, I mean car assembly lines are very automated now as are many factory lines.

You still need people to administer and maintain the machines.

And if all fails, you can still become a prostitute.

 

[HunterSeeker]

Well, it's not going to be a revolution, I mean car assembly lines are very automated now as are many factory lines.

You still need people to administer and maintain the machines.

And if all fails, you can still become a prostitute.

Of cource, the machines will most likely not be advanced enough to remove the need of human work completly. But if there only is work for 20% of a nation, the rest is simply not needed to do any work.

 

[repiV]

It's an interesting question - but like kirovman said, traditional jobs have already been automated to a large degree and we don't have higher unemployment as a result.
Society has evolved naturally since Victorian times from a labour-based economy to a knowledge-based economy, and I imagine the same process will continue with the eventual automation of service industries - if that ever happens.
Realistically, it will probably just mean that education and specialist knowledge will become even more important. The nature of work has changed drastically over the past 50 years, but we're a lot wealthier than we were then. Although a lot more stressed and unhappy...

 

[Angry Lawyer]

Well, it's not going to be a revolution, I mean car assembly lines are very automated now as are many factory lines.

You still need people to administer and maintain the machines.

And if all fails, you can still become a prostitute.

Until those damn robots start selling themselves for sex.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Absinthe]

It's an interesting question - but like kirovman said, traditional jobs have already been automated to a large degree and we don't have higher unemployment as a result.
Society has evolved naturally since Victorian times from a labour-based economy to a knowledge-based economy, and I imagine the same process will continue with the eventual automation of service industries - if that ever happens.
Realistically, it will probably just mean that education and specialist knowledge will become even more important. The nature of work has changed drastically over the past 50 years, but we're a lot wealthier than we were then. Although a lot more stressed and unhappy...

Agree with almost all of this. I'm not sure about stress and unhappiness, but then I'm not familiar with the statistics regarding that in general.

Also, robot prostitution ftw.

 

[jverne]

And if all fails, you can still become a prostitute.

your wrong about that!

imagine how advanced would this

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...3774_small.jpg/450px-Dildo_PICT3774_small.jpg


be in 60 years!

 

[CptStern]

we're not wealthier than our parents ..my dad supported a family of 5 on a single salary and was able to purchase a house/cars all on a labourers salary ...you're lucky if you can afford to rent an apartment/lease a car on that single salary today ..you need two working members of a household in order to afford a house

the gap is widening ..today's middle class is tommorrows lower class

 

[repiV]

Agree with almost all of this. I'm not sure about stress and unhappiness, but then I'm not familiar with the statistics regarding that in general.

Well certainly we haven't got any happier. Wealth can apparently remove discontent, but it can't actually make you happy (newsflash ).
I read an interesting article a few months back about the nature of modern work. Basically, in the "olden days", work was simple and easy to define - when you've assembled so many Hello Kitty dolls, your work is done, when you've ploughed that field, your work is done, etc.
In the corporate world, work objectives are much more ambiguous - eg. increase sales and profitability, improve the HR department and so on...so your work is never actually finished. Nothing is ever concluded. You can't truly escape your work and walk away from it. Apparently this drives stress levels and depression through the roof, and I can certainly attest to that from the time I spent as a recruitment consultant. No matter how well I did, it was never good enough, and the job was never done. It was always about more, more, more, more, more, and I would often work from home after leaving the office late and receive business calls at all hours...
It was ****ing fantastic when I was in the mood for it, but you've got to be on top form ALL the time. That job gave me some of the best and worst days of my life.
These days I think keeping your professional life in check is largely about preventing your work from controlling you, it's a constant battle. And executives definitely deserve the money they earn...

Anyway, rambling aside - I think it's often understated just how stressful business can be. Mundane jobs don't take a toll on your health and emotional wellbeing - I think that we are not yet properly equipped to deal with modern work and that's why we're suffering so much stress as a society.

 

[repiV]

we're not wealthier than our parents ..my dad supported a family of 5 on a single salary and was able to purchase a house/cars all on a labourers salary ...you're lucky if you can afford to rent an apartment/lease a car on that single salary today ..you need two working members of a household in order to afford a house

the gap is widening ..today's middle class is tommorrows lower class

It's a bit more complex than that though...prices of certain things have skyrocketed, but in pure terms of wealth we are massively better off now. We have more luxuries, live longer, eat better food (well, in theory...)...we just have to work harder for them.

 

[Solaris]

And executives definitely deserve the money they earn...

Because they work so much harder than those 14year old kids working 14hour days in sweatshops for less than a dollar.

 

[Baratos]

Just become a cyborg. If the humans win you point out you started as one, and if the robots win youre one of them! Win/win!

 

[kirovman]

I think exec pay accelerating away above normal pay is causing a lot of discontent recently. I would expect to see some curbs.

 

[repiV]

Because they work so much harder than those 14year old kids working 14hour days in sweatshops for less than a dollar.

Well, actually, yes they do. Although your snide comment has **** all relevance to anything, given that you're comparing developed economies with developing ones.

 

[theotherguy]

robotics will revolutionize the kind of work we do, but they won't eliminate very many jobs. A very strong field of robotics would open up many new job opportunities, perhaps jobs we've never heard of!

Factories will still need people to maintain and use the robots, there will still be demand for human workers in fields where robots can't or won't be used.

I believe that robots will improve the human condition dramatically.

 

[co05]

I believe that robots will improve the human condition dramatically.

Yeah and this would force everybody to get smart or die. College would be a necessity to get a job.

 

[repiV]

Yeah and this would force everybody to get smart or die. College would be a necessity to get a job.

How is this any different to what has already happened?
14 years of schooling is a necessity to get a job. Extra qualifications are usually a necessity to get a decent job, and most people with a future go to university anyway.
Would have been unthinkable 100 years ago.

 

[15357]

How is this any different to what has already happened?
14 years of schooling is a necessity to get a job. Extra qualifications are usually a necessity to get a decent job, and most people with a future go to university anyway.
Would have been unthinkable 100 years ago.

qft.

 

[co05]

How is this any different to what has already happened?
14 years of schooling is a necessity to get a job. Extra qualifications are usually a necessity to get a decent job, and most people with a future go to university anyway.
Would have been unthinkable 100 years ago.

What I meant to say was that we would have to fight a bit to keep our jobs. It would force us to learn more on the job and adapt quickly since we would have to be more useful because our jobs could be easily replaced with a cheap alternative.

 

[Llama]

And executives definitely deserve the money they earn...

Bullshit!

My dad works as an Area manager for a company. He works 9 hours a day, for pay no where near representative of his skills. The ****ing idiots in London running the company no nothing but make stupid decisions.

They don't deserve anything near the amount they earn, because they're morons.

And how the **** do they work harder than kids in sweatshops?

Your blatant stupidity is frightening.

 

[repiV]

Bullshit!

My dad works as an Area manager for a company. He works 9 hours a day, for pay no where near representative of his skills. The ****ing idiots in London running the company no nothing but make stupid decisions.

They don't deserve anything near the amount they earn, because they're morons.

So your dad works for a shit company run by people without a clue and you use this as proof that all executives are overpaid?

And how the **** do they work harder than kids in sweatshops?

Your blatant stupidity is frightening.

Working longer is not the same thing as working harder. The real concern here is your blatant stupidity, with your idiotic comment above. My boss at my old work used to put in 12 hour days, no breaks, rarely any lunch, non-stop work work work work work. Pretty much like the rest of us, to a greater or lesser degree. He moved into management because he was literally going slightly insane from overwork - the price he paid for earning 150k.
The difference is that being accountable for huge responsibilities you can't escape and having to proactively create more work for yourself constantly takes a heavy psychological toll that manual labour never can.
In particular, people who work in the City tend to be lonely, miserable and lead unfulfilling lives. Suddenly their hundreds of thousands/millions don't seem so appealing.

 

[repiV]

What I meant to say was that we would have to fight a bit to keep our jobs. It would force us to learn more on the job and adapt quickly since we would have to be more useful because our jobs could be easily replaced with a cheap alternative.

You mean just like we do now?

 

[Llama]

So your dad works for a shit company run by people without a clue and you use this as proof that all executives are overpaid?

Hey, if a company worth around one-two trillion $ makes shit decisions, so do the rest. Hell, that's more proof than you have
Think of an executive earning a modest amount of money. Oh wait, you can't.
The fact is, executives have cushy jobs. All they do, is make decisions (Which invariably won't effect their 6 of 7 figure salaries) . They don't have to worry about anything, because they get the worker bees (Including managers) to do it all for them.

Working longer is not the same thing as working harder. The real concern here is your blatant stupidity, with your idiotic comment above. My boss at my old work used to put in 12 hour days, no breaks, rarely any lunch, non-stop work work work work work. Pretty much like the rest of us, to a greater or lesser degree. He moved into management because he was literally going slightly insane from overwork - the price he paid for earning 150k.

haha, he was on over 150k and you think he gave a shit about being overworked? Get a clue.
If he was on 150k and was working 12 hour days, the man was an idiot for not moving to another job. Who'd not hire him?

Let me put it this way, my dad 'working for a shit company' has to manage an average turnover of ?100,000,000 a year, over five hundred staff directly, and roughly three to four thousand indirectly (Things like sorting out displacements for every employee in the area, including himself, because some asshole upstairs thinks that to displace one person you should displace everyone to make it 'fair' and he gets paid less than a ?100k, I can tell you that for sure. That's before 40% tax.
It's the same in pretty much every company. You just wouldn't know because you got stuck in sales, where you only have to worry about selling. Rather than worry about several hundred over people.
Oh, he might only work 9 hours a day, but he's working at home until about 10:30 each night. He also starts working at 7 in the morning.

The difference is that being accountable for huge responsibilities you can't escape and having to proactively create more work for yourself constantly takes a heavy psychological toll that manual labour never can.

Yeah, sitting in an office is more more difficult than working in a factory until your hands bleed, so that you can earn enough to keep yourself alive while still suffering malnutrition, all while someone punishes you with violence for not working enough.

I can totally see you know what you're talking about. The fact is you have no idea, do you?

 

[15357]

Hey, if a company worth around one-two trillion $ makes shit decisions, so do the rest. Hell, that's more proof than you have
Think of an executive earning a modest amount of money. Oh wait, you can't.
The fact is, executives have cushy jobs. All they do, is make decisions (Which invariably won't effect their 6 of 7 figure salaries) . They don't have to worry about anything, because they get the worker bees (Including managers) to do it all for them.



haha, he was on over 150k and you think he gave a shit about being overworked? Get a clue.
If he was on 150k and was working 12 hour days, the man was an idiot for not moving to another job. Who'd not hire him?

Let me put it this way, my dad 'working for a shit company' has to manage an average turnover of ?100,000,000 a year, over five hundred staff directly, and roughly three to four thousand indirectly (Things like sorting out displacements for every employee in the area, including himself, because some asshole upstairs thinks that to displace one person you should displace everyone to make it 'fair' and he gets paid less than a ?100k, I can tell you that for sure. That's before 40% tax.
It's the same in pretty much every company. You just wouldn't know because you got stuck in sales, where you only have to worry about selling. Rather than worry about several hundred over people.
Oh, he might only work 9 hours a day, but he's working at home until about 10:30 each night. He also starts working at 7 in the morning.



Yeah, sitting in an office is more more difficult than working in a factory until your hands bleed, so that you can earn enough to keep yourself alive while still suffering malnutrition, all while someone punishes you with violence for not working enough.

I can totally see you know what you're talking about. The fact is you have no idea, do you?

The world isn't fair. I know, I'm a cruel sob, but the world just isn't fair.


Stop whining and get back to making my soccer balls.







*dodges stones* J/k! j/k! AHH!

 

[repiV]

Hey, if a company worth over a hundred billion makes shit decisions, so do the rest. Hell, that's more proof than you have
Think of an executive earning a modest amount of money. Oh wait, you can't.

If it's worth over a hundred billion, their decisions are obviously quite good. Otherwise they wouldn't be worth over a hundred billion.

The fact is, executives have cushy jobs. All they do, is make decisions (Which invariably won't effect their 6 of 7 figure salaries) . They don't have to worry about anything, because they get the worker bees (Including managers) to do it all for them.

Alas, when I said 'executives', I was really including managers in that too.

haha, he was on over 150k and you think he gave a shit about being overworked? Get a clue.

Shut the **** up, you pretentious twat. Don't tell me to get a clue on knowing stuff about people I know. He wasn't "overworked", he earned 150k because he worked so hard. As he earned that money doing sales.
He actually earned more money than our Managing Director does. Such is the great leveller that sales is.

If he was on 150k and was working 12 hour days, the man was an idiot for not moving to another job. Who'd not hire him?

What, so he could earn 150k working 12 hour days elsewhere? You're the one without a ****ing clue here. That's just the way the recruitment industry is. I worked 10-12 hour days on a 15.5k basic and perhaps double that in commission.

Let me put it this way, my dad 'working for a shit company' has to manage an average turnover of ?100,000,000 a year, over five hundred staff directly, and roughly three to four thousand indirectly (Things like sorting out displacements for every employee in the area, including himself, because some asshole upstairs thinks that to displace one person you should displace everyone to make it 'fair' and he gets paid less than a ?100k, I can tell you that for sure. That's before 40% tax.
It's the same in pretty much every company. You just wouldn't know because you got stuck in sales, where you only have to worry about selling. Rather than worry about several hundred over people.

Um, generally it's managers that have to worry about several hundred people. It's got nothing to do with what industry they work in, whether it's sales or anything else.

Oh, he might only work 9 hours a day, but he's working at home until about 10:30 each night. He also starts working at 7 in the morning.



Yeah, sitting in an office is more more difficult than working in a factory until your hands bleed, so that you can earn enough to keep yourself alive while still suffering malnutrition, all while someone punishes you with violence for not working enough.

I can totally see you know what you're talking about. The fact is you have no idea, do you?

Obviously you have no ****ing idea yourself - evidently you've never worked in a corporate environment, you're probably about 15 years old, and beyond recording your dad's rants and then posting them on here, you have no idea what the **** you're talking about.

 

[Llama]

What a shame I'm white and middle class, therefore unable to comprehend your comments on manual labor.

*dozy*
*note: Sarcasm intended*

Yeah, the world isn't fair. Living in the political shit hole known as Korea, you should know that, but you don't seem to. Don't like your ignorance come in the way of my talk with repiV.

 

[kirovman]

There is the popular misconception that all managers are inept like Dilbert's boss.

But they do generally have to bring a lot of skills together and are responsible for getting the right people and making good use of the resources, as well as delivering the final product. If the project fails, it's the manager that gets it in the neck, not the workers (unless the company needs to make layoffs or salary cuts as a result of the failure). Their reward is proportional (well, in general) to the success/failure.

Leadership is a valued trait.

 

[Llama]

If it's worth over a hundred billion, their decisions are obviously quite good. Otherwise they wouldn't be worth over a hundred billion.

Ignorance at its best. A company doing well does not mean it makes any good decisions. Having a father who actually works in a bank would kind of give me far more of an idea than you. Quit while you're not too far behind.

Alas, when I said 'executives', I was really including managers in that too.

Shame they are completly different, then, isn't it?

Shut the **** up, you pretentious twat. Don't tell me to get a clue on knowing stuff about people I know. He wasn't "overworked", he earned 150k because he worked so hard. As he earned that money doing sales.
He actually earned more money than our Managing Director does. Such is the great leveller that sales is.

Oh dear, look what I found:
"He moved into management because he was literally going slightly insane from overwork"
Eat your words, bitch!
People working in sales earn money because it's bloody easy to do so. It's the entire point of SALES.
Try working in services.

What, so he could earn 150k working 12 hour days elsewhere? You're the one without a ****ing clue here. That's just the way the recruitment industry is. I worked 10-12 hour days on a 15.5k basic and perhaps double that in commission.

I happen to know the area sales manager in Birmingham made ?300,000 last year, and he sure as hell didn't work 12 hours a day.

Um, generally it's managers that have to worry about several hundred people. It's got nothing to do with what industry they work in, whether it's sales or anything else.

Wasn't I just saying that myself? Whoops!
And no, sales do not worry about other people, they worry about Sales. Did you actually work in sales at all?

Obviously you have no ****ing idea yourself - evidently you've never worked in a corporate environment, you're probably about 15 years old, and beyond recording your dad's rants and then posting them on here, you have no idea what the **** you're talking about.

Hey, guess, what, you're right, I am 15!
Which is a shame, because I'm doing better in this than you are.
Oh, and I've called you on your 'harder than manual labour' bullshit. Back it up?

 

[15357]

Yeah.... why are you guys getting so angry and hatin' about this?

 

[Llama]

because I'm full of hate, and ignorant people irritate the **** out of me

 

[99.vikram]

Dilbert Principle - Non-specialised workers will be shunted into management.

 

[Llama]

On topic, I wouldn't imagine this robotic takeover will happen too soon. Robots will certainly never (in our lifetimes) replace certain jobs - No robot will be intelligent enough to be a barrister or an accountant or a journalist, for example.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Fools! Their already here! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_robots

 

[Que-Ever]

Dude, when the robots come, we're all gonna be put in pods and have our energy harvested.

 

[repiV]

Ignorance at its best. A company doing well does not mean it makes any good decisions. Having a father who actually works in a bank would kind of give me far more of an idea than you. Quit while you're not too far behind.

You don't have a ****ing clue what you're talking about. The suggestion that a company can do well without doing anything right is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Shame they are completly different, then, isn't it?

So what?

Oh dear, look what I found:
"He moved into management because he was literally going slightly insane from overwork"
Eat your words, bitch!
People working in sales earn money because it's bloody easy to do so. It's the entire point of SALES.
Try working in services.

What the ****?
Again, you're talking out of your arse. You're 15 ****ing years old, you've never had a proper job, and you dare to tell a salesperson what it's like to work in sales. Arrogant ****ing cock...sales is one of the hardest jobs out there. 70% of people burn out of recruitment in particular within six months.

I happen to know the area sales manager in Birmingham made ?300,000 last year, and he sure as hell didn't work 12 hours a day.

Yeah, so what? Are you so fixated on how much you know about something you have no ****ing clue about that you forgot there is more money to be made in certain industries at certain times than in others?
You mentioned banks - no ****ing shit he makes 300k a year. Financial services is where the real money is.

Wasn't I just saying that myself? Whoops!

No, you didn't. You insinuated that management was an industry in itself, completely separate from sales.

And no, sales do not worry about other people, they worry about Sales. Did you actually work in sales at all?

Sales managers have to worry about their sales staff, dipshit. Many organisations, like recruitment companies for example, are all about sales in every aspect.
I worked in recruitment for a while and I'm currently a telesales team leader selling pay-per-click advertising to businesses. Now **** off.

Hey, guess, what, you're right, I am 15!
Which is a shame, because I'm doing better in this than you are.

No, you're not. You're an arrogant, clueless **** with a real chip on your shoulder. Someone ought to punch you in the face.

Oh, and I've called you on your 'harder than manual labour' bullshit. Back it up?

Why don't you back up your bullshit first? You don't know **** all and you think you know it all. You make Solaris look like the most humble and knowledgable person in the world.

 

[repiV]

because I'm full of hate, and ignorant people irritate the **** out of me

How ironic.

 

[CptStern]

oh dear god ..stick a sales person in a classroom ful of yelling kids and he'll have a meltdown, give him a shovel and 2 tons of sand to backfill before lunchtime and he'd be a quivering mass by the time the break truck drives by ...you're not doing bloody rocket science repiv YOU'RE SELLING ..if you can beg borrow lie or steal you can sell