So there are no hit animations?

[Silent_night]

Is there any hit animations , like not for the stirders of course but at leat for those regular soldiers?

 

[[sl@yer]]

Surely Havok controls how a body moves/reacts when hit (??).

 

[Axyon]

Well, in this years presentation the combine certainly didn't react when they got shot, we can only hope that that changes, because it looks a little strange at the moment. You'd think they'd flinch or something.

 

[Aphal]

Surely Havok controls how a body moves/reacts when hit (??).

It can, and valve hasn't put it in.

 

[[sl@yer]]

Oh....so it's on their "well we tried it out but it didn't really add anything to the gameplay" list. Ah well.....i'm sure they've ommited it for a reason.......right?

 

[Mr. Redundant]

yeah very odd imo, you woulda thought that would be one of the first things in with the physics engine/havok/ragdolls

if its not in, I wont cry, but it sure will detract from the immersion they are trying to produce.

 

[Chris D]

It'll be coded into the engine already. There'll probably be an option for us to turn it on. It should come as part of the physics system, no animation work is required.

 

[Vegeta897]

Flinching when getting hit has NOTHING to do with physics! What are you people smoking? And yes it is in there, as Abom said! Jebus!

 

[Axyon]

Flinching when getting hit has NOTHING to do with physics! What are you people smoking? And yes it is in there, as Abom said! Jebus!

Er, I said it wasn't there. Dunno, maybe you typoed

 

[PatPwnt]

uhmm... it'll be there don't worry....

 

[Chris D]

Yeah it is to do with physics because inverse kinematics are part of the physics system which dictates what the limbs can and can't do, the bullet hits would also be physically simulated so that when there is impact the impact is given some sort of number relative to the power of the gun that gives the desired effect.

 

[Mr. Redundant]

Flinching when getting hit has NOTHING to do with physics! What are you people smoking? And yes it is in there, as Abom said! Jebus!

Chris_D said it, and you just contradicted yourself.
Chris said it should be an option in the physics engine (havok is the physics and ragdoll engine) because it is already capable of it.

it used to be animated, but this isnt 1998 physics baby.

 

[KiNG]

We're using a version of Havok prior to V2.0 with A LOT of custom code
added. While you won't see the exact thing they show in their videos,
you'll see that we preserve momentum in our ragdolls and a few other
tricks to give the same perception. Preserving momentum allows running
enemies to ragdoll and continue with their motion as the ragdoll flops
around.

We are pretty locked down on the tech with HL2 so any of the bigger
ticket features will have to wait until after the game ships. Having
said this, you haven't seen all of the current features of the engine
yet.

thats from Rick Ellis

 

[theGreenBunny]

Read the last email in the valve info thread. The on-hit animation blending ('flinching') isn't in at the moment, but the mail hints at a post-release update that will include it.
edit: ie, what King just posted

I hope they do, the blending looks cool.

 

[Chris D]

Thanks for making me look stupid KiNG

 

[Vegeta897]

thats from Rick Ellis

SWEET.

Sorry for misquoting and doing whatever else, I was kinda in a bad mood or something.

 

[Aphal]

Flinching when getting hit has NOTHING to do with physics! What are you people smoking? And yes it is in there, as Abom said! Jebus!

Umm.. actually, havok has an option for keyframe blending so enemies react to bullets where they're shot and are still animated.

 

[Mr. Redundant]

Thanks for making me look stupid KiNG

he didnt, those are two completely different things.

carrying the momentum upon death to ragdoll is not the same thing as flinching from weapons.

this worries me however, because I doubt the physics engine they are using can do the "living creature to ragdoll back to living creature" thing we were discussing. :/
dissapointing = utterly,... if true.

 

[theGreenBunny]

This thread is going pretty damn fast. If this is how it will be after HL2 has been released I think I'll have to stay out of general discussion for a while

 

[Rico]

I'm afraid you're not the only one who might be dissapointed Mr. Redundant

 

[Mr. Redundant]

I'm afraid you're not the only one who might be dissapointed Mr. Redundant

yeah.. I thought that the ragdoll while living effect was one of the coolest features I have seen in a long time.
hopefuly if it isnt in the engine, it can be easily added... and hopefuly Valve do add it.

seriously, that effect could make so many mods possible/much cooler.

anyway, still no word from Rick about it (sent the email couple days back) hopefuly we hear the official word on it soon

 

[G-Dub]

So (in the E3 2K4 video) when Gordon crashes the buggy into the tree after freeing it from those "electric things", and shoots at the combine soldier, and it doesn't seem to take any hits, that's what it's gonna look like until after it's been release and updated?

 

[PriNcE oF SpAcE]

he didnt, those are two completely different things.

carrying the momentum upon death to ragdoll is not the same thing as flinching from weapons.

this worries me however, because I doubt the physics engine they are using can do the "living creature to ragdoll back to living creature" thing we were discussing. :/
dissapointing = utterly,... if true.

I don't know if this answers your question:

See my answers below.

Rick
Valve

From: David Basoco [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thu 1/29/2004 2:40 PM
To: Rick Ellis
Subject: animations blend with physics?

hiya
you guys are great and i support you and your work
very much. if you could answer a few question i would
be very grateful.

is it possible to blend animations with physics? or is
it possible if someone was falling ot a certain death,
that they would begin a falling animation?

You can do either. You can turn the corpse into a ragdoll for it to physically get simulated as it falls or you can animate a death sequence to have a specific type of death occur.

also theres been some talk on the hl2.net forums if it
is possible to have a player hit and thrown in a
ragdoll, still alive and get back up if he wasnt
killed? mostly for theird person view, i guess
pretaining to multiplayer(eek).

We don't do this in HL2 but I would think with some effort you could make this work however you probably wouldn't want to ragdoll a live player as it wouldn't look right (ragdolls look and act like lifeless bodies, which a live player would not be). I would think playing some "scrambling" animation would be more appropriate.

and well, if u read this and choose not to reply, i
really wish u the best of luck wiht hl2 and any future
projects. you've done yourselves well and showed the
some people how a game is supposed to be made.

Thank you.

friendly fan,
kP

 

[Letters]

Post-release updates... wow, I hope they follow through!

 

[Chris D]

Post-release updates... wow, I hope they follow through!

Half-Life 2 will be updated consistantly. They said a while back they'll release a 64-bit version of the game when 64-bit processors are common place.

 

[evil^milk]

We are pretty locked down on the tech with HL2 so any of the bigger
ticket features will have to wait until after the game ships. Having
said this, you haven't seen all of the current features of the engine
yet.

What does he mean by this? Why are they locked down on the tech with HL2?

 

[Mr. Redundant]

What does he mean by this? Why are they locked down on the tech with HL2?

they wont be adding anything to the engine until it is released.

and they lock the tech, because otherwise they could just keep adding more and more, and never release.
there has to come a point where you say "ok this is what we want to deliver, now lets finish it up and release"

 

[Mr. Redundant]

<snippedy snip>

*sigh* I guess so.. thats a bummer.

edit: crap double post, my mistake Jacobim.
(in reference to zoolander of course)
"ARE YOU UNAWARE THAT I GET FARTY AND BLOATED FROM A FOAMY LATTE!?!"
"my mistake jacobim.."
"YOUR MISTAKE INDEED!"

 

[PvtRyan]

It's a pity, but not a disaster.
Lets not just look at the bad, lets look at the good. :cheers:
It's pretty much the only thing I'm missing in the game.

 

[evil^milk]

Awesome. That way, HL2 will keep getting better and better...

 

[Apos]

It's actually still not clear what will happen. Just because they don't support the really high intensity version of physical reaction to shots doesn't mean there will be no reaction at all. We'll probably just have to wait and see.

 

[PriNcE oF SpAcE]

*sigh* I guess so.. thats a bummer.

edit: crap double post, my mistake Jacobim.
(in reference to zoolander of course)
"ARE YOU UNAWARE THAT I GET FARTY AND BLOATED FROM A FOAMY LATTE!?!"
"my mistake jacobim.."
"YOUR MISTAKE INDEED!"

well he did mention it specifically for Player characters...maybe it's easier with NPCs?

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

Well, in this years presentation the combine certainly didn't react when they got shot, we can only hope that that changes, because it looks a little strange at the moment. You'd think they'd flinch or something.

yeah even in the orginal soldier of fortune they pulled that off ):

 

[PriNcE oF SpAcE]

I think Valve may have kept the flinching to a minimum like in the first game for gameplay reasons. 1 on 1 fights, realism aside, are too easy with heavy flinching....for example in far cry if you ever encountered a single merc, it was pretty easy killing him off even if you didn't pull a headshot on him, since he couldn't return fire because of all the flinching...

but the no flinching also annoyed me in the first game, so I hope that the enemies atleast are a little effected when you shoot them in hl2...

 

[dream431ca]

If they don't put that in it's not like it's gonna totally destroy the game.
I can handle if there is no flinching or anything like that but I'm sure valve will put that in.

Sounds like an E-MAIL!! (if it hasn't already been asked).

 

[Mattigus]

Here's my 2 cents.
If we're talking about realism, lets try this on. If you get shot in the chest, YOU DIE. Maybe not die, but you'll be on the ground, which is a lot more than just "flinching." Of course, flinching may not be realistic, but it would be asthetically pleasing.

 

[urseus]

I dont think youll see it as previlant. Its a trade off of having ragdoll i think. You wont see the cool death animations like in dod where a mger would be killed and reach out in agony as he dies clutching his chest. As soon as the enemys health is 0, the body becomes a boned fish and no longer has any movement.

 

[Mountain Man]

I think Valve may have kept the flinching to a minimum like in the first game for gameplay reasons. 1 on 1 fights, realism aside, are too easy with heavy flinching....for example in far cry if you ever encountered a single merc, it was pretty easy killing him off even if you didn't pull a headshot on him, since he couldn't return fire because of all the flinching...

This is probably the most accurate assessment. Ragdoll blending is also annoying because it can trick you into thinking your opponent is dead. He looks like he's falling backwards so you stop firing to conserve ammunition only to have your opponent suddenly straighten up and return fire.

I wouldn't mind seeing them wiggle a little bit, just as a little visual feedback that you are indeed landing shots, but blood splats are fine, too.

 

[Dsty2001]

An MP5 isn't going to make a Combine soldier flinch It barely makes most humans it hits flinch (Most just fall down from the wounds)

 

[=1nfiltrat0r=]

no flinching is pretty stup1d we arent in the 90s anym0re. this is 2004 get with tha program valv3.