Some more right wing scum

[No Limit]

I posted before about a guy named Andy Stephenson. Most of you probably never heard of him and I don't blame you if you haven't. He was a liberal activist that strongly opposed electronic voting.

Over a year ago he got cancer and needed medical attention. Liberals got together and raised over $50,000 using pay pal to help pay for his surgery. When this happened a lot on the right (and some on the left) mostly on the site freerepublic.com decided that they would claim this was fraud. Pay Pal froze the funds while it was investigating. It is not really clear if this caused a delay in Andy's treatment or if the delay was caused by a mistake in the hospital's records. Andy died days later. Even after his death people on freerepublic kept smearing Andy saying he hasn't really died, that he was living in the bahamas with $50,000 in his pocket, etc.

That was in the past, lets fast forward to today.

The same people (I am guessing here, but these people are psycho however you look at it) are now trying to delete a wikipedia entry about Andy to hide their shame. They are not asking for edits of the page content to add more sources, they are asking to completely remove the article saying that Andy was not notable. You can view this here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Stephenson

These people have absolutely no shame left. They don't care what they have to do to advance their own political agenda. They will kill people they don't agree with and then try to hide their actions. You will never hear these assholes apologize for anything, in their eyes the ends always justify the means.

 

[Ome_Vince]

Woa, if thats true, -> thats just low

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Andy_Stephenson

I didnt know of this guy/affair, the "talks" are interesting to read though ., some of the opposition claim he was a scam-artist, there seems to be alot of debate where the freeze of the funds came from.
Interesting "counter"-parts:

Freezing of Paypal account

One of the key organizers of the online fundraiser to benefit Andy Stephenson was Beth Ferrari, also known by the screen name sfexpat2000 on Democratic Underground. She was responsible for handling the Paypal account, and was in direct contact with Paypal and Johns Hopkins. She has made conflicting statements in her posts on DU as to why the Paypal account was frozen.

* On 09 May 2005, she stated that "They froze the account because TOO MUCH MONEY WAS COMING IN! So, they just needed to be informed about the nature of this drive. It will take a day or two but, it will be all right."
* On 04 June 2005, she then stated that "There's no "if". They got Andy's paypal account shut down..."
* Paypal's general policies on accounts are as follows:

1. Money withdrawn from a Paypal account takes on average 3-4 days to be available from the person's bank account.
2. Paypal is a "user initiated" service, which means that the only way they would lock transactions is one of two reasons:
1. The user himself made the request
2. The transactions are considered "high risk", which means high volume, money coming in from other countries, and a few other things

Paypal's user agreement. Crockspot 19:28, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

and:

The cause for the delay of surgery

* In her op ed of 14 July 2005, Beth Ferrari lays the blame for the delay of Andy's surgery squarely on "the Bush right wing". However, on 10 May 2005, she documents in a post on DU that a mailroom delivery error at Johns Hopkins was to blame.
* DU user "MissWaverly", with whom Andy stayed while in Baltimore, points out that the surgery would have been delayed anyway, due to more medical tests that were required.

Crockspot 19:28, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

I have no idea whats true or not, since apparantly some of his greatest supporters and friends called him a scam-artist :S, though in the ends its a sad sad story, and its true there are sick ppl out there that have no problem killing for political views
Interesting read, and indeed a tragic story.

 

[No Limit]

That's the problem, in that wikipedia article they are still trying to dispute that he is dead. It is a ****ing fact that he is dead. Excuse my french but this kind of thing makes my blood boil.

If you want to go into the facts of why his pay pal account was shut down that is fine. The problem is they don't want to discuss that, they instead want to delete the entire thing as if it never happened.

What gets me the most is that these people know he is dead and they continue to spew this hatred. They have absolutely no shame. I hope there is a heaven and hell so that these people can burn for all eternity.

 

[Tr0n]

That's messed up.

 

[Stigmata]

Disgusting.

 

[bliink]

Paypal is renowned for being shit when it comes to anything important. Remember the hurricane charity thing they screwed up with somethingawful.com?

I'm not saying that what happened wasn't terrible, I'm just saying they shouldn't have used paypal to begin with.

 

[Glirk Dient]

Sorry No Limit. I was about to post because you have another one of your typical BS titles. I stopped from posting about how ignorant your titles always are and proceeded to read what you had to say. Yes it is absolutely horrible he died. It is even worse people got involved and tried to freeze the account. Unfortunately for you the pay-pal policy puts blame on pay-pal, not the crazy right-wingers that are secretly taking over America and the rest of the world.

You really need to stop generalizing if you want to make a point. Generalizing makes you sound ignorant and people won't listen to what you have to say.

 

[15357]

I have many examples of a lot of left wing scum, but well....


Anyway, this only shows that

a lot on the right (and some on the left)

Both are 'scum'

OR

Paypal sucks

OR

Andy really doesn't exist


How do you know that they aren't just some assholes who decided to vandal it?

How do you know that he died because of Bush?

How do you know that Liberals actually got together at all? Do you have proofed copies of the bank?


You can't prove anything here. :/

 

[Jintor]

How do you know North Korea detonated a nuke? All you have is their word.

(And a lot of seismic activity. =/)

 

[15357]

How do you know North Korea detonated a nuke? All you have is their word.

(And a lot of seismic activity. =/)

With detection of radioactivity, seismic P waves, which only occur lots in underground explosions....

 

[Jintor]

...which could theoretically prove they have a hell of a lot of tnt and a lot of time to spare.

Bottom line, you can't ever completely and totally prove anything, so you go the way the most evidence swings.

 

[bliink]

get on topic, this thread isn't about nukes or north korea.

 

[Jintor]

Well, On Topic, are these Right Wing Scum following Steven Colbert?

Wikiality
Colbert comments on Wikipedia
Enlarge
Colbert comments on Wikipedia

In a July 2006 episode of the satirical comedy The Colbert Report, Stephen Colbert announced the neologism wikiality (a portmanteau of the words Wikipedia and reality) for his segment "The Wørd":

Wikipedia in popular culture
You see, any user can change any entry, and if enough other users agree with them, it becomes true. ... If only the entire body of human knowledge worked this way. And it can, thanks to tonight's word: Wikiality. Now, folks, I'm no fan of reality, and I'm no fan of encyclopedias. I've said it before. Who is Britannica to tell me that George Washington had slaves? If I want to say he didn't, that's my right. And now, thanks to Wikipedia, it's also a fact.

We should apply these principles to all information. All we need to do is convince a majority of people that some factoid is true. ... What we're doing is bringing democracy to knowledge.[16]


Wikipedia in popular culture

According to Colbert, together "we can all create a reality that we all can agree on; the reality that we just agreed on." During the segment, he joked "I love Wikipedia... any site that's got a longer entry on truthiness than on Lutherans has its priorities straight." Colbert also used the segment to satirize the more general issue of whether the repetition of statements in the media leads people to believe they are true.

Colbert suggested that viewers change the elephant page to state that the number of African elephants has tripled in the last six months. The suggestion resulted in vandalism of Wikipedia articles related to elephants and Africa. Wikipedia administrators subsequently restricted edits to the pages by anonymous and newly created users.

Many believe Stephen Colbert himself vandalized several Wikipedia pages at the time he was encouraging other users to do the same. Regardless, the user, whether it was Stephen Colbert himself or someone posing as him, has been blocked from Wikipedia indefinitely.[17] This user was not blocked for vandalism, joking, or 'poking fun at Wikipedia', but because the user violated Wikipedia's username policies, which state that using the names of celebrities as login names is inappropriate. The account will be reopened if and when Colbert or Comedy Central confirm its identity.[1]

The piece used the motto "the revolution will not be verified."

Global Language Monitor, which tracks trends in languages, named wikiality and truthiness the top T.V. buzzwords for 2006.[18][19]

I agree that it's sad that someone died because of this moronic political war. It's even stupider that they tried to cover it up. Go go politics, look what you've done.

 

[VictimOfScience]

Left, Right--is there a difference? No. Its called the "Business Party" and everyone is a member. They're all the same.

 

[Absinthe]

That is horrible.

But these kinds of thread titles only thwart discussion.

 

[Raziaar]

The situation at hand is awful... but No Limit, you have to stop making thread titles like that. They serve no point but to get a knee jerk-reaction... and don't do remarkably well at bringing sympathy to the table except that which the posters already bring with them as kind decent people.

Point in case... there are scummy republicans, and there are scummy liberals, there are scummy individuals and cliques in every political party out there. Being a member of a certain party does not make you scum. People are judged on their individual merits, not their membership in an ordinary political party.

That's the way it should be anyways.

I know if somebody told you they were a republican, your first thought in mind would be 'scum' before even knowing the person. It's just how you are. You need to change that.


Mentioning what political party the people support is fine... but going out of your way to trumpet that they are either republican or democrat, baring your teeth and going "grrr... damn vile scum these (party)s are."

I could just as easily pull up alot of democrat politicians that are scum in their own rights.... corrupt, harmful, you name it. But I don't usually... cause I can identify them for what they are. Terrible people who happen to have a party affiliation.

 

[Flyingdebris]

Well put Raziaar,

I'm a republican/libertarian and I acknowledge that there are assholes within my same political affiliation. Thats the case with any group of people.

I really doubt that every single liberal out there is a kind gentle soul with no malice or guile in their hearts.

 

[No Limit]

Raziaar and Glirk, I was not generalizing the right wing, I was pointing out assholes in the right wing that are hijacking the republican party. There is a difference. Sure, there are democrats that are scum and if you don't post about them I think you should. The problem is I have never seen something so disgusting on the left. You have to understand that I don't have a real problem with what the right is supposed to be, I have a problem with what they have become. The republican party has been completely hijacked by extreme neocon elements in this country by this type of scum. Sure, not all republicans fall for this just like not all liberals subscribe to the idea that Bush bombed the world trade centers. I work with a lot of republicans, I get along with them. Even though our opinions vary on various issues they never want to talk to me about jesus or call me a traitor to this country because I don't support the guy they voted for. I try to be as balanced as I possibly can, I really do. But when you see shit like this it is really hard to say these are just a few bad apples and political affiliation has nothing to do with it. The fact is that there isn't just one person there trying to delete this, there are many that are hijacking the discussion.

Responding to the Pay Pal thing. Yes, a lot of this was pay pal's fault, I am not really trying to argue who aided Andy's death, as I said in the original post that is in the past. What is do disgusting about this is the fact the same people that were smearing him while he was dying are now smearing him after his death. There is absolutely no justification for trying to get Andy removed from wikipedia, yet you have idiots on the extreme right going in there and giving bullshit reasons for why it should. This has nothing to do with politics, it has to do with evil elements in what the right wing has now become.

 

[Ome_Vince]

hmm, reading this last post i'd have to agree with Raziaar and Glirk. Your emediatly taking an incident, turning it into a political "right-winger scum" and "left wingers would never do that" campaign.

Your continiously generalising "i have never seen something so disgusting on the left" (hinting its only right-wingers that do something so sick), you're also saying "with what they have become" etc as if right-wingers have all turned into nazi's or something.

From what i read on that wiki article both left and right-wingers (including some of his biggest supporters and friends) accused him of being a fraud.
How do you know some of these might not be involved in the current wiki-war? => your assuming its only "evil right wingers"..

Also, as far as i can find nothing is proven, everything is speculation and i personally also find it sick this lady emediatly accuses "Bush-right wingers" as the ones responsible for Andy's death (and changes her story several times), even though there isnt any proof (and most likely could be a paypal or hospital ****up), imo using this as a political weapon (and that is sick..)..

And you've never seen "the left" do anything that disgusting? Well they have, let me give you a small example of what happened in my country with the "wonderfull peacefull left-wingers who would never do such a thing".

We had a famous politician called Pim Fortuyn, he was considered right-wing, as he bombarded the current left-wing government with all the faults and crap they pulled.
Emediatly left-wing parties began bombarding him as an extreme-right winger, which was pure bullshit (he even had important islamic party-members, minority groups- etc).

His most "right-wing" point was "lets help other countries locally instead of simply getting their poor to immigrate over here."
Yet the left continued its "he's an Adolf" campaign "we all need to feer this new fuhrer and not let it happen again", hoping his PR would decrease, cause in Europe you label ppl a Hitler => he loses PR.
In this case the Dutch population (both alot of left and right) were sick of this and Pim's fame grew enormously.

One brightfull day after exiting a radio-studio, a left-wing activist walks up to Pim, and shoots him multiple times killing him (so not fighting him with logic, reason, debating; which everybody seemed to lose against this guy, but shutting him up with bullets).
An enormous outrage came from the population, protests etc.
Emediatly afterwards the left-wingers began a PR campaign of: "dont generalise the left", "Pim was an extreme right winger" and smeering his name to hopefully mend the PR fiasco.

Please understand people are people, whether they are left or right, both capable and proven to be able to do the dirtiest of things.
Left-wingers not only "shut pim up" by killing him, but their PR campaign attempted (and still does) to destroy his name and reputation.
No.. respect... for.. the... dead..

I hope this story enlightens your "left-wingers would never do that" view of things, otherwise when i have some more time i'll dig some more stuff up (as this was the first thing that popped into my mind).

 

[CptStern]

but you're doing the same thing when you said this:

Left-wingers not only "shut pim up" by killing him, but their PR campaign attempted (and still does) to destroy his name and reputation.
No.. respect... for.. the... dead..

no ...a looney killed Pim ...he just happened to believe in certain left wing ideology ..does that mean he represents all people who believe in some form of left wing ideology? the murderer hardly represents me or anyone else I know

 

[No Limit]

Ome vice, I really am not familiar with the German political system nor any politicians there. I am talking about American politicians. However, I would love to see an example of a left winger praising this guys death.

But again, just to repeat my point. There is not one person trying to delete this record, there are numerous people posting about that wikipedia article that say it needs to be removed because Andy is not "notable". If it was just one single idiot it really wouldn't be an issue, however, as of this posting there have been over 20 people that posted the article should be removed. There is clearly a campaign out there to do this and you know as well as I do that this campaign is coming from the right.

 

[Ome_Vince]

but you're doing the same thing when you said this:



no ...a looney killed Pim ...he just happened to believe in certain left wing ideology ..does that mean he represents all people who believe in some form of left wing ideology? the murderer hardly represents me or anyone else I know

Yes, i wrote that a bit off, what i meant was somebody from the left-wing killed Pim for political reasons, and the smeer campaign came from alot of (often amongst the biggest) left-wing parties..
I'm not trying to generalize here, if you read my post you'll see i was countering a generalization by offering an example "from the other side".

My point is Left and Right-wingers are both capable (and have done plenty of times in the past) done awefull things for their political motivations. The example No_Limit posted is another example of how dirty ppl can be, and i agree with him its sick -> but lets not generalize that and print that on "right-wingers" as a whole.

Currently i'm in the US for a few months (for my work) and the TV here sickens me. If i were an American i wouldnt vote republican, OR democrat. They're both idiot-parties imo, democrats smeering the "that republican is a pedophile" and republicans throw the "well clinton pardoned some other pedophile in the past".
Its both moronic, and its a simple PR smeer campaign.
At first, with Bush's elections, i thought this mostly came from the republican's camp, but now i see they're both throwing rotten appels. Its no surprise to me now that politics here has so many problems, and people are either "democrat" or "republican" and blindly support whatever comes out of "their camp".
"o, look how horrible Bush is, he cheated in the Vietnam war service, our Kerry is soo much better with his purple hearts" isnt exactly something vouching the Democrats are more wiser. And the republicans with their stupid "it doesnt matter if i'm right or wrong, i'm a strong leader and i dont flipflop raaaahrr" omg.
The republicans and Democrats should both stop being babies lol (seriously though, wtf is wrong with the TV here :S ).

O, and No_Limit, i'm not from Germany -> i'm from Holland
Also, if its 1 or several (as in the example i provided) doesnt matter, those few ppl trying to delete that record (you dont even know if his lefty-friends are part of that) dont represent all the right-wingers out there, whether they're US or global.
From what i've seen Right and Left is generally the same in most places. Its mostly in the US though, that (imo because of the 2-party "system") it gets so dirty.

In Holland there is a wide variety of political parties, i usually vote central, so parties that incorporate both left and right-wing items. I dont support any pure-left or pure-right winged parties, since they both seem to be fanatical and often blind (sometimes deliberate) to certain ways to solve problems because it doesnt fit their fanatical party-ideals.
Thats what i think is the major political problem in the US -> its either left or right... I believe in balance, and i must say in alot of countries i've noticed there is balance when non-fanatical parties are ruling, or the kabinet is very mixed.

 

[CptStern]

Yes, i wrote that a bit off, what i meant was somebody from the left-wing killed Pim for political reasons, and the smeer campaign came from alot of (often amongst the biggest) left-wing parties..
I'm not trying to generalize here, if you read my post you'll see i was countering a generalization by offering an example "from the other side".

you were doing exactly what you accused No limit of ..and you didnt clear up anything ..specifically when you reiterate this sentiment again when you say:

somebody from the left-wing killed Pim

what does it matter either way? the person does NOT represent the left no more than any individual can

 

[Angry Lawyer]

There is not one person trying to delete this record, there are numerous people posting about that wikipedia article that say it needs to be removed because Andy is not "notable". If it was just one single idiot it really wouldn't be an issue, however, as of this posting there have been over 20 people that posted the article should be removed. There is clearly a campaign out there to do this and you know as well as I do that this campaign is coming from the right.

...You do realise that Wikipedia doesn't host original research, don't you? It needs to appear in a trustworthy publication or two before it can appear on it.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[No Limit]

...You do realise that Wikipedia doesn't host original research, don't you? It needs to appear in a trustworthy publication or two before it can appear on it.

-Angry Lawyer

I don't really understand what you are saying. Are you trying to also make the accusation that the person is not notable?

He has appeared in many documentaries including an upcoming HBO doc to air on Nov 2nd. He has appeared throughout numerous news publications before and after his death. He ran for sec or state in Washington. And the fact that people were able to raise $50,000 in a few days to help him is pretty damn notable. I'm not sure if that is the accusation you were making but thats what I got from it.

 

[Ome_Vince]

you were doing exactly what you accused No limit of ..and you didnt clear up anything ..specifically when you reiterate this sentiment again when you say:

what does it matter either way? the person does NOT represent the left no more than any individual can

Where did i say he represented the left? Or his actions did? FFS stern.
I said he was a left-winger, and i said that several left-wing parties engaged in a smeer campaign before AND after Pim's death.
I'm NOT GENERALIZING here, or saying he represents the left-wing.
I'm making examples how several people FROM the left-wing engage in dirty-acts for their political ideals.

I was not doing "what i accused No_Limit of". You need to stop nitpicking my posts to make it look as if i'm saying "something else" (more precisely the opposite, wtf is wrong with you). I AM COUNTERING GENERALIZATION.
No more did that person or those parties smeer campaign, represent the left, and its ideals as those guys who supposingly shut down that paypal account represent the right and its ideals.

Pim Fortuin got killed by a Left-Wing activist (it was somebody from the left wing yes), for political ideals. IN NO WAY AM I THEREFOR SAYING THAT HE REPRESENTED THE LEFT-WING => i'm saying he was FROM the left-wing. So were the parties that started the dirty smeer-campaign.

I'm simply giving an example of how a loony Left-Wing activist killed somebody else over his political ideals, and how many mainstream left-wing parties engaged in a smeer-campaign before and after Pim's death.

This to show that both CERTAIN PEOPLE from the left and CERTAIN PEOPLE from the right are capable of disgusting acts, and that in neither of these cases does it represent or justify generalization.

Stop twisting words, your trying to make a case that isnt there.
If you wish to debate this, debate what i'm trying to say, and not try and make something out of nothing (what i never said, and more importantly what i am opposing).

Knowing you you'll most likely dig dig and dig on this trying to make it out as-if I am generalizing the left-wing based on "1 loony" (purposely ignoring the party smeering that i also mentioned in that story but more importantly the message i'm trying to say ).

 

[Nemesis6]

Speaking of left-wing scum... I wonder if anyone remembers how Markos "Screw Them" Moulitsas of DailyKos got his nickname.

 

[CptStern]

who cares?

 

[Raziaar]

If you want a corrupt democrat and liberal, you have William J. Jefferson for starters. Corruption charges, and he has used the national guard to remove personal items from his home in new orleans while they should of been helping to save thousands of victims.

But that doesn't prove anything, like I said. It doesn't prove that democrats are scum. Its just that no party is immune to corruption and wickedness...

 

[Nemesis6]

Well, Stern, I believe some people out there are interested, so I'll quote his own words -

Let the people see what war is like. This isn’t an Xbox game. There are real repercussions to Bush’s folly.

That said, I feel nothing over the death of merceneries. They aren’t in Iraq because of orders, or because they are there trying to help the people make Iraq a better place. They are there to wage war for profit. Screw them.

Courtesy of Markos "Screw Them" Zuniga Moulitsas. That's what he said when 4 civilian contractors were mutilated and hung from a bridge, all of them veterans and 3 of them fathers. And that's just DailyKos. Check out DemocraticUnderground which you're so fond of.

 

[Flyingdebris]

Mercenaries get a bad reputation. That sucks that they died.

People get this impression of some criminal lowlife who's only a few steps short of an assassin. When in reality they are for the most part career soldiers who supplement existing armed forces, but choose to do so under a structure seperate from the military. They are no better or worse than regular soldiers, they just do things a bit differently.

 

[CptStern]

Well, Stern, I believe some people out there are interested, so I'll quote his own words -



Courtesy of Markos "Screw Them" Zuniga Moulitsas. That's what he said when 4 civilian contractors were mutilated and hung from a bridge, all of them veterans and 3 of them fathers. And that's just DailyKos. Check out DemocraticUnderground which you're so fond of.

who cares? it's one person's opinion ..should he be put to death? imprisoned? drawn and quartered?

and spare me your false sympathy ..if you really cared about americans dying in iraq you'd hold those that sent them there unjustly responsible

 

[Angry Lawyer]

I don't really understand what you are saying. Are you trying to also make the accusation that the person is not notable?

He has appeared in many documentaries including an upcoming HBO doc to air on Nov 2nd. He has appeared throughout numerous news publications before and after his death. He ran for sec or state in Washington. And the fact that people were able to raise $50,000 in a few days to help him is pretty damn notable. I'm not sure if that is the accusation you were making but thats what I got from it.

Okay, then quote the publications, stick them in the article's "references" page, and you've beaten them. In "Articles for Deletion", it's not a straw poll, but a discussion to work out whether it falls under the correct criteria. By adding the references, you manage to save it, regardless of the number of right-wingers who say otherwise. If you can find links to Reuters, or any of the major news websites, you're sitting pretty.

Although, there's been nothing said about this in the UK, so I'm not quite sure what to make of it.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[No Limit]

Okay, then quote the publications, stick them in the article's "references" page, and you've beaten them. In "Articles for Deletion", it's not a straw poll, but a discussion to work out whether it falls under the correct criteria. By adding the references, you manage to save it, regardless of the number of right-wingers who say otherwise. If you can find links to Reuters, or any of the major news websites, you're sitting pretty.

Although, there's been nothing said about this in the UK, so I'm not quite sure what to make of it.

-Angry Lawyer

But the references are already there, including a link to HBO's web site with Andy's name on it. I am not disputing that the wikipedia page needs to be update and these people that have a problem with the content can update it. The point here is they are trying to delete it for bogus reasons. I know you are not trying to defend their actions but explain to me why a rational person would try to remove the article?

 

[Angry Lawyer]

Then, in the article's deletion debate, just post all of the references you can find, and say "Not notable?" Then BAM, you win the Internet.

In response to rationality - because, if he's not notable, then what stops everyone making a page on their deceased relatives?

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Nemesis6]

Stern, I'd rather hold these these guys and their supporters responsible.

 

[CptStern]

Stern, I'd rather hold these these guys responsible.

of course you would because you're too narrowminded/naive/partisan to understand that had Bush and company not lied their way into iraq none of this would have happened ..that would be admitting you and your cronies were wrong ..and the deaths of over 2700 americans and 655,000 Iraqis arent worth being proven wrong

 

[Nemesis6]

I'm not reading Information Clearing House. I'm smarter than that.

 

[CptStern]

you idiot ..it's a video ..kinda hard to fabricate a video

but way to prove your bias

 

[Nemesis6]

Easy libby. It's not my fault that you're stupid enough to read conspiracy sites.