some stuff to you people to understand more about venezuela

[repiV]

This thread deserves a:

Too lenient.

 

[Solaris]

To repeat Tr0n: stfu Solaris.

You're being downright insulting to <RJMC>. So stop it.

On a non-political level I find Mr.RJMC highly amusing, everyone of his post are a joy to read. 'I wilt pay every girl whit rape dollars' oh the laughter that post brought. RJMC is a funny guy, we just differ politically although I may have been a bit insulting, and apologise to Mr.RJMC if I have caused any offence, I will try to continue the debate in a more respectful manner.

Solaris, you are such an idiot it is untrue. Do you perhaps think that RJMC might be a more trustworthy source than all your ****ing Alex Jones bullcrap, and that **** Galloway who calls the fall of the Soviet Union the greatest personal tragedy in his life?

For the record, Alex Jones is an idiot, I'm ashamed I ever read and belived some of the crap he came out with. And George Galloways fantastic, I suggest you listen to him on Talksport tonight 8pm-10pm, its 'the mother of all talkshows'

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Chavez the greatest man who ever lived?
You just called his country the trailer trash of all socialism.

So, you've just admitted that socialism at its best is equally bad, or inferior to capitalism at its worst.

This leads to the obvious question of, if Chavez is the world's best leader, why his country sucks ass?

 

[Solaris]

Chavez the greatest man who ever lived?
You just called his country the trailer trash of all socialism.

So, you've just admitted that socialism at its best is equally bad, or inferior to capitalism at its worst.

This leads to the obvious question of, if Chavez is the world's best leader, why his country sucks ass?

Ey? He's one of the best men, not the best. And its not the trailer trash of socialism, its a great example of how socialist ideas can help improve the lives of the poor in a developing country.

 

[repiV]

And the economic revolution in China is a great example of how capitalism propels societies to success and improves the lives of everyone. Its history, and the history of countless other countries, is also proof that socialism leads to poverty and destitution. The success, wealth and quality of life of a nation correlates directly with the extent of its capitalism.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Improved into that of a trailer-trash slum, according to you.

"It's not brilliant. It's better than it used to be though. Why don't you go and live in [an equivalent] slum for a few years, or a trailer park in the yo ess of ay and then tell us how great capitalism is?"

This leads to the obvious question of if Chavez "one of" the greatest men who ever lived, and you're a socialist, why you aren't heading down there and donating all your resources to the awesome cause.
Socialism means working together.

The other obvious question is that, if Chavez is on your list of the greatest men who ever lived, how long is that list?

Because I assume it would be very long to fit our pal Chavez.

In another thread, you were proud of a small anti-war march.

Here's 2004's anti-chavez march.

Anyways, it's much easier to confirm RJMC's story by simply reading the very well-sourced Criticism of Hugo Chavez article on Wikipedia - which is basically a socialist encyclopedia in the first place.

 

[Gray Fox]

And the economic revolution in China is a great example of how capitalism propels societies to success and improves the lives of everyone. Its history, and the history of countless other countries, is also proof that socialism leads to poverty and destitution. The success, wealth and quality of life of a nation correlates directly with the extent of its capitalism.

Absoluut rubbish, for someone who relies so much on history you seem to ignore quite a lot of it. Western societies in the 18th, 19th, and early 20th centure are a great example why communism and socialism arose and became so popular. Contrary to what you learned in school or read on some rightwing conservative website, the majority of the folks who lived in those strongly libertarian capitalist eras lived in complete and utter shit, with wealth and power greatly divided among the elite and the majority of people. It 's not until socialist laws were introduced for fear of communism gaining to much power that the living conditions of people improved and the majority got to enjoy the fruits of their labor.

The countries that were ruined under socialism were ruined because of their corrupt government, mismanagment, totalitarian rule, and outside interference. The same has happend to countles other predominantly rightwing capitalist countries. It's the extremes that tend to ruin societies, like communism or pure libertarian capitalism.

Not only that, today the countries that are constantly rated the best countries to live in which are the scandinavian countries, with the lowest criminal activity, best healthcare, lowest teenage birthrates etc... Are predominantly western countries who are the most left.

 

[Solaris]

Improved into that of a trailer-trash slum, according to you.

"It's not brilliant. It's better than it used to be though. Why don't you go and live in [an equivalent] slum for a few years, or a trailer park in the yo ess of ay and then tell us how great capitalism is?"

I never meant to hint at any equivalency between Venezuela and a trailer park. He was telling me to go and live in Venezuela seen as though I like socialism so much, this is flawed mainly by the fact that:

Venezuela is not a socialist state

Also it is akin to telling someone who supports welfare for the poor to throw away their money and live of benefits seen as though they support them so much.

He was using Venezuela as an example of how bad socialism is, I choose to point out that capitalism has poverty too, like Venezuela (which isn't socialist) so criticizing socialism because a young socialist country (which Venezuela is not) is poor is a flawed argument as there are many very poor capitalist countries.

This leads to the obvious question of if Chavez "one of" the greatest men who ever lived, and you're a socialist, why you aren't heading down there and donating all your resources to the awesome cause.
Socialism means working together.

He's a good man who looks after the working class, he's not as socialist as I am, but he's a good man non the less.

The other obvious question is that, if Chavez is on your list of the greatest men who ever lived, how long is that list?

I'm not sure.

Because I assume it would be very long to fit our pal Chavez.

Your right, I hold Chavez is a great man, however so are a lot of other people.

In another thread, you were proud of a small anti-war march.

Here's 2004's anti-chavez march.

Mostly middle class bourgeoisie afraid of losing their wealth to the poor.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Anti-chavez_march.jpg

Anyways, it's much easier to confirm RJMC's story by simply reading the very well-sourced Criticism of Hugo Chavez article on Wikipedia - which is basically a socialist encyclopedia in the first place.

There's very little solid criticism there.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

It's not a socialist state, but you are consistently hailing its socialist policies. Policies that are rather disliked by a large portion of the people involved.

"Mostly middle class bourgeoisie afraid of losing their wealth to the poor."

Like you said you are..?

"[Showing support for socialism by living in an area with a great leftist leader] it is akin to telling someone who supports welfare for the poor to throw away their money and live of benefits seen as though they support them so much."

Throw away your money and live on socialism's benefits!
Throw off the shackles of capitalist oppression!

Also how is that criticism not solid?
Also surely they have other reasons to hate chavez than just money? Like the many sketchy, disputed elections and, well, the lack of many basic human freedoms?

 

[Solaris]

It's not a socialist state, but you are consistently hailing its socialist policies. Policies that are rather disliked by a large portion of the people involved.

"Mostly middle class bourgeoisie afraid of losing their wealth to the poor."

Like you said you are..?

Nahhhh, not in the marxist sense.

"[Showing support for socialism by living in an area with a great leftist leader] it is akin to telling someone who supports welfare for the poor to throw away their money and live of benefits seen as though they support them so much."

Throw away your money and live in on benefits!
Throw off the shackles of capitalist oppression!

hahha funneh

 

[Mechagodzilla]

I'm deadly serious.

I think you are a capitalist agent trying to make communism look bad via ineptitude.

Proof: your constant use of capital, constant use of ineptitude.

How many things have you bought in the last month?

 

[Solaris]

I'm deadly serious.

I think you are a capitalist agent trying to make communism look bad via ineptitude.

Proof: your constant use of capital, constant use of ineptitude.

:bounce:

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Fat cat go home!

FAT CAT GO HOME!

 

[Solaris]

Fat cat go home!

FAT CAT GO HOME!

I'm not a fat cat, I'm a revolutionary!

 

[kirovman]

FAT CAT GO HOME

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

I'm not a fat cat, I'm an evolutionary!

...

 

[Solaris]

 

[repiV]

Absoluut rubbish, for someone who relies so much on history you seem to ignore quite a lot of it. Western societies in the 18th, 19th, and early 20th centure are a great example why communism and socialism arose and became so popular. Contrary to what you learned in school or read on some rightwing conservative website, the majority of the folks who lived in those strongly libertarian capitalist eras lived in complete and utter shit, with wealth and power greatly divided among the elite and the majority of people. It 's not until socialist laws were introduced for fear of communism gaining to much power that the living conditions of people improved and the majority got to enjoy the fruits of their labor.

The countries that were ruined under socialism were ruined because of their corrupt government, mismanagment, totalitarian rule, and outside interference. The same has happend to countles other predominantly rightwing capitalist countries. It's the extremes that tend to ruin societies, like communism or pure libertarian capitalism.

Not only that, today the countries that are constantly rated the best countries to live in which are the scandinavian countries, with the lowest criminal activity, best healthcare, lowest teenage birthrates etc... Are predominantly western countries who are the most left.

Name one successful socialist or communist country.
Name one country which is rising from the depths of poverty to become a major world power purely because of capitalism.
Name the richest country in the world.

Go figure.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

"I'm not a fat cat, I'm a revolutionary!"

 

[kirovman]

Scrooge McDuck was awesome, noone can deny that.

Remember that time he was swimming in pools of money, and his nephews asked him to buy a trophy?

"$1.49! That's a lot of money!"

 

[Solaris]

Name one successful socialist or communist country.
Name one country which is rising from the depths of poverty to become a major world power purely because of capitalism.
Name the richest country in the world.

Go figure.

Purely becuase of capitalism?
If all you need is capitalism to become the most succesful country, then why are so many capitalist countries poor?

 

[repiV]

Purely becuase of capitalism?
If all you need is capitalism to become the most succesful country, then why are so many capitalist countries poor?

Because they are corrupt to the core.

 

[Solaris]

Because they are corrupt to the core.

But the USA became the richest country in the world purely becuase of 'capitalism'. Everything else had nothing to do with it, that is what you said.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

If all you need is capitalism to become the most succesful country, then why are so many capitalist countries poor?

Because they don't have enough citizens like Solaris, consuming products at such a rate as to make Rich Uncle Pennybag's head spin.

 

[smwScott]

Now whenever I see a Solaris post I'm going to picture a very white middle class teenager with a British accent screaming "Viva La Revolucion!"

You realize you're a walking contradiction right? It's funny to see someone so one dimensional and devoid of true principals. Bush suppressing the media and spreading propaganda to further his own agenda? THE HORROR. Chavez doing the same thing? Necessary sacrifice for the good of the people.

You read like a character you've designed in your head, complete with a cookie cutter psuedo socialist agenda that you're more than willing to talk about but in reality would absolutely despise if it was ever applied to you.

 

[<RJMC>]

dam looks like every time I say something some dumb ass come saying that in wikipedia or stuff I am wrong

and keep coming whit the "he hav a computer he is a rich ass" o yeah a computer that I bought like 4 years that only upgraded twice whit outdated hardware
also that the job as teachers of my mom in the public collegue give us so much,and she needed to go to spain to study something over there and hav to sell our 1997 fiat palio to pay the plane and the stay,and the job of my dad in a store of naturals medicines of a uncle of ours whit a garage store,is not like the job he used to hav that was in a fiat car factory but since the economy went down that factory is no longer open,also my dad hav to sell some others stuff,and my mom decend from teachers too and hav 10 brothers and they all lived in a modest house that still hav the few signs of the 60's era,and my dad decend from a family where almost everyone is a taxi driver and live in one of the poor neigborhood of the towm
and to go to spain to study my desired career we will hav to sell one litle apartment in the capital city that belongs to my grandpas,but whit the stituation it may not be possible

oh yeah just because I dont like chavez that means I am a brainwashed by the prograpanda of others
and when I make a post here about the truth some comunist-wanabee person that sure dont even know where my country is on the map,comes here telling me that I am wrong and he is right
yeah ignoring that I lived my whole life here and the most international place I hav reached is a colombian city near the border,and I saw what hapened in these years and the consequences of these years
however there is still some comunist wanabee kid that keeps talling that I am wrong and he is right

that kid should come here if he loves the retarded man in our presidency,he should see the videos of his spechees and the news that happened these years,or maybe he should drop the PC and live to north korea or cube since the comunist or socialist or what ever stuff is pumpings in its veins

or maybe I should told to him that all the british are retarded chavs cuz I saw it on mtv,and the decitions of tony blair and keeping UK troops is something the british suport cuz I read it somewhere in the internets

however the fact is that whit the recent appearance of chavez and the whole "the devil" coment the eyes of the world where like focused on us and wanted to spread truth and answer questiongs ,but looks like a witness like me cant compete whit some editor of some article on some webpage around there

too bad

 

[kirovman]

Your post touched our hearts, RJMC.

Because they don't have enough citizens like Solaris, consuming products at such a rate as to make Rich Uncle Pennybag's head spin.

Solaris is right... wing! :O

 

[repiV]

But the USA became the richest country in the world purely becuase of 'capitalism'. Everything else had nothing to do with it, that is what you said.

No, not "everything else". But it is the primary factor. And corruption or lack of it is a part of the economic system.

 

[repiV]

dam looks like every time I say something some dumb ass come saying that in wikipedia or stuff I am wrong

and keep coming whit the "he hav a computer he is a rich ass" o yeah a computer that I bought like 4 years that only upgraded twice whit outdated hardware
also that the job as teachers of my mom in the public collegue give us so much,and she needed to go to spain to study something over there and hav to sell our 1997 fiat palio to pay the plane and the stay,and the job of my dad in a store of naturals medicines of a uncle of ours whit a garage store,is not like the job he used to hav that was in a fiat car factory but since the economy went down that factory is no longer open,also my dad hav to sell some others stuff,and my mom decend from teachers too and hav 10 brothers and they all lived in a modest house that still hav the few signs of the 60's era,and my dad decend from a family where almost everyone is a taxi driver and live in one of the poor neigborhood of the towm
and to go to spain to study my desired career we will hav to sell one litle apartment in the capital city that belongs to my grandpas,but whit the stituation it may not be possible

oh yeah just because I dont like chavez that means I am a brainwashed by the prograpanda of others
and when I make a post here about the truth some comunist-wanabee person that sure dont even know where my country is on the map,comes here telling me that I am wrong and he is right
yeah ignoring that I lived my whole life here and the most international place I hav reached is a colombian city near the border,and I saw what hapened in these years and the consequences of these years
however there is still some comunist wanabee kid that keeps talling that I am wrong and he is right

that kid should come here if he loves the retarded man in our presidency,he should see the videos of his spechees and the news that happened these years,or maybe he should drop the PC and live to north korea or cube since the comunist or socialist or what ever stuff is pumpings in its veins

or maybe I should told to him that all the british are retarded chavs cuz I saw it on mtv,and the decitions of tony blair and keeping UK troops is something the british suport cuz I read it somewhere in the internets

however the fact is that whit the recent appearance of chavez and the whole "the devil" coment the eyes of the world where like focused on us and wanted to spread truth and answer questiongs ,but looks like a witness like me cant compete whit some editor of some article on some webpage around there

too bad

Word. :thumbs:

 

[DeusExMachina]

You tell 'em RJ.

 

[Solaris]

RJMC, that's some sad stuff. It's not the fault of Mr.Chavez however, its the fault of decades of capitalism, Chavez is a good guy fighting for working class people who most presidents don't give a shit about, you should support him.

 

[repiV]

RJMC, that's some sad stuff. It's not the fault of Mr.Chavez however, its the fault of decades of capitalism, Chavez is a good guy fighting for working class people who most presidents don't give a shit about, you should support him.

Solaris - just shut up. For your own benefit as well as everyone else's.

 

[Solaris]

Solaris - just shut up. For your own benefit as well as everyone else's.

Oh stfu racist. (see london thread)

 

[<RJMC>]

RJMC, that's some sad stuff. It's not the fault of Mr.Chavez however, its the fault of decades of capitalism, Chavez is a good guy fighting for working class people who most presidents don't give a shit about, you should support him.

I will support him if he do something that make the situation better

and as far he havent

 

[repiV]

Oh stfu racist. (see london thread)

Fine, dig your own grave. Arrogant, clueless, know-it-all little 16 year old twit knows more about Venezuela than the resident Venezuelan.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Solaris is far more racist because he supports big corporation$ with his almighty capital.

Right now, he's using a Dell computer and internet sucked straight from the teat of Big Telecom.

 

[Gray Fox]

Name one successful socialist or communist country.

Sweden, Finland, Norway, Iceland.

Name one country which is rising from the depths of poverty to become a major
world power purely because of capitalism.

There is none.

Name the richest country in the world.

Go figure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

Interesting, the US is third with a GDP of 41.339
While Norway , a socialist country is ahead of it.

And it's even more interesting if we start looking at the Human Development Index
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index
The US is 10th, outdone by countries that have a lower GDP, yet trough their social policies have managed to spread the wealth more equally. So much for wealth.

 

[repiV]

Solaris is far more racist because he supports big corporation$ with his almighty capital.

Right now, he's using a Dell computer and internet sucked straight from the teat of Big Telecom.

The silicon chips are made out of the breast implants from Kim Jong-Il's favourite communist slave girls.
The internet connection is kept alive by the daily sacrifice of an Islamic terrorist. Oh the cruel inhumanity, make it stop!

 

[repiV]

Sweden, Finland, Norway, Iceland.

They are not socialist countries. Try again.

There is none.

Yes there is - the People's Republic of China.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

Interesting, the US is third with a GDP of 41.339
While Norway , a socialist country is ahead of it.

And it's even more interesting if we start looking at the Human Development Index
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index
The US is 10th, outdone by countries that have a lower GDP, yet trough their social policies have managed to spread the wealth more equally. So much for wealth.

Norway is not a socialist country. It's also a small country, which inevitably helps it. Nice try, though.
By the way, you have conviniently glossed over the fact that GDP makes up only a fraction of the HDI score. The USA has relatively low standards of education, adult literacy and life expectancy - so what do you expect?

 

[Solaris]

Sweden, Finland, Norway, Iceland.


There is none.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

Interesting, the US is third with a GDP of 41.339
While Norway , a socialist country is ahead of it.

And it's even more interesting if we start looking at the Human Development Index
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index
The US is 10th, outdone by countries that have a lower GDP, yet trough their social policies have managed to spread the wealth more equally. So much for wealth.

QFT