Source engine, meh.
- Thread starter Ender01
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2k4 has improved network code
ut2k3 patch will ad it tho... dono bout the new interface but it also has tons of new content 2k4 that is
ut2k3 patch will ad it tho... dono bout the new interface but it also has tons of new content 2k4 that is
ApocalypseNow
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Pfff... Ut2k4 should be a patch or at the most a addon.... Its basically ut2k3 with some hoover crafts and a new sniper rifle skin.... AND they are selling it as a full priced new game... **** that!
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uberneko
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Actually Karma can do tons of things that Source can do, but it requires editing. In a few months UT2k3 mods are going to have awesome lighting and graphics, along with physics. Remember, HL1's Quake 1 engine is running a game that's an FPS with an RTS element.
DeathlessOne
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Well Ut2004 and the next wave of "Make something Unreal" contests, I'm sure we will be seeing a lot more out of Unreal in the next few months.
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2k4 be not an expansion it be a new game........ even though its not being sold alone its ONLY with ut2k3 and its bonus packs
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Logic
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Jeez - I can honestly say I'm not proud to be a part of this community.
On topic though: The "Karma" physics engine is actually just the MathEngine physics engine, which is in direct competition with Havoc (used by HL2). A few years ago, there were 3 main physics engines attempting to infiltrate the gaming industry: Ipion, Havoc, and MathEngine. They each had their strengths and weaknesses, but Ipion seemed to handle some situations much more efficiently than the other two did (at the same time, though, it couldn't do some of the things the others did easily). Mathengine and Havoc were pretty much equal in my oppinion. Then Havoc bought Ipion, and started incorporating some of Ipion's technology into Havoc. Havoc gradually improved beyond Mathengine, and in my oppinion, is now quite a bit better. UT2k3 used the Mathengine physics engine, but didn't use it anywhere near it's potential, though I still doubt it's as good as Havoc, and noone has even seen what improvements have been made on it since it was first incorporated into HL2. I'd imagine it's pretty incredible, considering how good Havoc was to start off with.
BTW for anyone who likes the havoc demos: They don't represent a tenth of what Havoc can do.. even some of the old Ipion demos were more impressive than these new ones.
Also, there's a lot of negativity towards Tresspasser - fair enough, I guess most people just didn't like it. Personally, I thought it was great. It was definately ahead of it's time, and despite being buggy, the world created a sense of freedom no other game had created at the time. To me, HL2 is tresspasser's spiritual successor - doing what Tresspasser tried to do (and in most people's oppinions, failed to do), and completely succeeding in drawing the player into the world.
Sorry about the long post, I just have lots to say :cheese:
On topic though: The "Karma" physics engine is actually just the MathEngine physics engine, which is in direct competition with Havoc (used by HL2). A few years ago, there were 3 main physics engines attempting to infiltrate the gaming industry: Ipion, Havoc, and MathEngine. They each had their strengths and weaknesses, but Ipion seemed to handle some situations much more efficiently than the other two did (at the same time, though, it couldn't do some of the things the others did easily). Mathengine and Havoc were pretty much equal in my oppinion. Then Havoc bought Ipion, and started incorporating some of Ipion's technology into Havoc. Havoc gradually improved beyond Mathengine, and in my oppinion, is now quite a bit better. UT2k3 used the Mathengine physics engine, but didn't use it anywhere near it's potential, though I still doubt it's as good as Havoc, and noone has even seen what improvements have been made on it since it was first incorporated into HL2. I'd imagine it's pretty incredible, considering how good Havoc was to start off with.
BTW for anyone who likes the havoc demos: They don't represent a tenth of what Havoc can do.. even some of the old Ipion demos were more impressive than these new ones.
Also, there's a lot of negativity towards Tresspasser - fair enough, I guess most people just didn't like it. Personally, I thought it was great. It was definately ahead of it's time, and despite being buggy, the world created a sense of freedom no other game had created at the time. To me, HL2 is tresspasser's spiritual successor - doing what Tresspasser tried to do (and in most people's oppinions, failed to do), and completely succeeding in drawing the player into the world.
Sorry about the long post, I just have lots to say :cheese:
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Logic
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I actually had it running fine back when it came out, with a fairly up to date system and a lot of tweaking. It's all about the tweaking :cheese:
freddythefrog
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Theres going to be a low-price solution for all people who bought ut 2004. You have to send in some strange card or whatever, then you'll get it for a lower price.
And imho thats a good solution. Think of the fifa, nhl and madden games. all ea sports series have to be bought new every year, even though sometimes changes are absolutely marginal. epic is compared to
other devs really nice on that.
Mountain Man
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There's a big difference between knocking a few barrels over in Unreal Tournament and what the Source engine is capable of.
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Logic
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The physics engine in UT2k3 is actually capable of everything the Havoc engine in Source is capable of. It just doesn't do everything quite as well or efficiently. The physics engine in UT2k3 was really underused. I even bought Unreal 2 to see what interesting things they would do with the physics now that they were dealing with single player only. I was sorely dissapointed. They didn't do a damn thing.
Cyber$nake
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Is the UT2003 engine the same as the unreal championship engine? If so, I think source is better, but that might just be because they just dont use any of the phisics in UT2003. I cant be sure how far it's engine can go tho.... 
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Logic
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(Sorry too late to edit)
If anyone's interested (you're probably not, but too bad, I'm going to post anyway) in the physics engines, here's an old article comparing them (back before Ipion was acquired by Havoc):
http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20000913/lander_01.htm
(you have to register\log on to view, but it won't cost you anything)
It's an interesting read, and it's interesting to compare the engines back then to how they are now. Havoc has certainly improved quite a bit (possibly due to acquiring Ipion), and while Mathengine probably has too, there aren't many good examples of it's use that I know of (it's "Karma" implementation into the Unreal games hasn't been used very well. I remember some old old demos that demostrated the engine better. Hopefully we'll see it showcased better in up and coming games in the series).
Edit:
.
If anyone's interested (you're probably not, but too bad, I'm going to post anyway) in the physics engines, here's an old article comparing them (back before Ipion was acquired by Havoc):
http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20000913/lander_01.htm
(you have to register\log on to view, but it won't cost you anything)
It's an interesting read, and it's interesting to compare the engines back then to how they are now. Havoc has certainly improved quite a bit (possibly due to acquiring Ipion), and while Mathengine probably has too, there aren't many good examples of it's use that I know of (it's "Karma" implementation into the Unreal games hasn't been used very well. I remember some old old demos that demostrated the engine better. Hopefully we'll see it showcased better in up and coming games in the series).
Edit:
Yep, it's the same engine. The physics engine definately wasn't used to it's potential, but I prefer source too, even though we're yet to experience it first hand
.
DeathlessOne
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Nice job logic. I think that cleared up a lot in the thread, although it started talking about the novelty of the engines it looks like people don't know very much about what they are fighting about. Nice post.
DeathlessOne
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As for the ut2k4 price and the way it's sold, give me a break. I see all your machines in your signitures, and most of you have a load of money to spend anyway. People like me who are using 64mb MX420s (bums) will end up buying it the same as everybody else, the same way I bought ut2k3, the companys need money...So do I...
DeathlessOne
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No, no, no. Unreal Championship is the WORST unreal game ever made (and it's for X-box) it doesn't use all of the 2003 engine, the poly count on everything is halved, the levels look and play like crap, the multiplayer is embarrassing. I love Unreal, Unreal2, Ut2003, and I'm sure I'll love 2k4. The truth is Championship was a flop.
DeathlessOne
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Don't think I'm a fanboy or an X-box hater, I don't like it but this is compared to PC games. Console games may be fun, but the true quality of the games are just not there.
Mountain Man
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Exactly.
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wadee
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did someone say that UT2004 more original?!! how? whats new in it? vehicles? i think we saw that didnt we.... sure the Unreal engine looks good but im not a fan of unreal games or the unreal engine i dont think its as impressive as the source and call me crazy but i think even the lithtech engine (the Jupiter used in N.O.L.F 2) looked better than UT03's....i heard that UT2004 will use the same engine as UT2003 with little changes maybe.... but cmon you gonna tell me when the king of multiplayer , Half-Life, gonna be out is there anyone gonna play UT04?! i know i wont...
i think the source engine isnt about the physics and about how barrels react, u can play medal of honor and see that the barrels does react like they should to rockets and stuff
i think the source engine isnt about the physics and about how barrels react, u can play medal of honor and see that the barrels does react like they should to rockets and stuff
Ender01
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you can not tell you think homestly nobody will play UT2004, becuase HL2 will be out.
I agree, all im trying to say is when fan boys start comparing the source to Halo 2s engine or Doom III's engine, they use the barrels, and the rest of the physics, as a selling point.
And yes DeathlessOne, this thread is DEAD.
I agree, all im trying to say is when fan boys start comparing the source to Halo 2s engine or Doom III's engine, they use the barrels, and the rest of the physics, as a selling point.
And yes DeathlessOne, this thread is DEAD.
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Logic
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Yeah I really didn't like UT2k3's ragdoll physics - for some reason, they slowed down rotation - so if a body is flying through the air and spinning, it would fairly quickly stop spinning, and continue falling through the air in a fixed position. The maximum falling speed was also too low. Very unrealistic. I liked some of the bone crunching sounds when they landed though :cheese:
Edit: We've seen enough in the videos to know that HL2's implementation of Havoc has been done much better. Look at the soldier's body that flies through the air when the grenade goes off, or when the combine falls from the tower - it looks more natural than UT2k3 because there's no reduction in their rotation until they hit the ground.
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