Spore, Mass Effect PC to Require Online Validation Every Ten Days

[ríomhaire]

There's no way I'm getting spore while I'm still on dial-up then.

 

[Paulaner]

There's no way I'm getting spore while I'm still on dial-up then.

I think that the revalidation process will involve some kind of fast on-the-fly connection, not a lengthy communication with a server.

 

[Shoes_Buttback03]

My PC can't take HL2 so Spore's out of the question. I'm just going to have to depend on the Wii version. Which probably wont come out until one or two years after the PC. Oh well I can wait.

 

[ríomhaire]

I think that the revalidation process will involve some kind of fast on-the-fly connection, not a lengthy communication with a server.

Still no. Having to log on to play is the single reason I didn't buy CoH: Opposing Fronts. I can just about bear Steam and the update process needed to play Bioshock but there is no way I'm going to be logging in online every few days/every time I want to play.

 

[A True Canadian]

This guy from the Mass Effect FAQ thread provided earlier by PaoloM (here) sums up most of my thoughts:

The problem is that you need a constant internet connection. Going to be changing ISPs and without net access for a few weeks? Bye-bye to the games you've legitimately purchased. Going on holiday with your laptop? No games after a few days. Someone manages to clone your CD key? bye-bye to the game suddenly without any warning.

There's also the ethical point about something you've paid money for having to constantly keep phoning home to work. Despite me owning a copy of this game, BioWare will have the right at any time to render it unusable. Sorry, but when I've paid for a game, installed it and activated it, I object to a company having that much control over something I own. How about if you had to ring up Ford every time you wanted to go for a drive in order to get their permission to use your car?

Lastly, there's the knowledge that the pirates can just install the game and play it regardless of net connections or anything else. Meanwhile, there's all sorts of potential problems which I may run into as a legitimate customer which could prevent me from being able to play the game one day. That annoys me. Intensely.

I also stumbled across this blog entry about 5 ways to combat piracy here. A snippet:

3. Offer a demo

Given the capricious nature of PC software, lots of gamers want to make sure a game is going to run on their particular setup before sinking $60 of non-recoverable money into it. I see lots of people who pirate a game ?just to try it out?. We all know how that?s going to go. They get into the game, hours become days, and pretty soon they?ve had a blast, beaten the game, but never got around to buying it.

Don?t turn curious customers into pirates by denying them a way to try the game before putting their money at risk. Don?t give them an excuse to download a BitTorrent client and figure out how it all works. Make sure that the only people who turn to that stuff are people who are intent on stealing. Remember that P2P file sharing feeds on itself. The more people doing it, the easier it is to find files and the faster they download. The more people you can turn legit, the fewer seeds there will be, the harder files will be to find, and the slower they will download. Get the inertia going in the right direction.

And there's still the problem of limiting 3 activations (installations on seperate PCs), which was one of my biggest issues back when Bioshock was released. In theory, Mass Effect, Spore, whichever, will only last me 3 PC generations. You'll be less likely to let your friends borrow these games because having them install it on their PCs uses up your activations. Sure you can probably call customer support and have them reactivate them, but we've all had nightmares there. And why should we add to our phone expenses to spend an hour talking to someone who doesn't speak english as a first language to try and arrange it so that we can play a game that we've already spent $60 on? :O

I also forsee the modding community being hampered by this as well. The question I have is would the online validation stuff still work if the in-game data has been altered?

 

[Kyorisu]

I also forsee the modding community being hampered by this as well. The question I have is would the online validation stuff still work if the in-game data has been altered?

The check is run at launch time and is part of the games executable and maybe an external .dll or two. Modifying game data (modding) would not break the copy protection.

 

[Kadayi]

The bigger concern with this DRM is how long will it actually be supported. What are the odds in 5 years they are still going to have the validation server up?

 

[Asus]

And game devs shouldn't have to protect their games from pirates, because people shouldn't pirate, yet people do it anyway.

Action and Consequence.

Should devs/distributors be able to protect their investment? Sure.
BUT if pirates avoid annoying measures through cracked versions, why burden paying customers with them in retail copies? (talking about drastic measures and not basic copy protection to discourage easy copying)

Through those copy protection measures how many people will it actually draw to buy the game because of them? (wtf who would be drawn to that?) And then how many paying customers will they scare away to not pay?

Sounds like a desperate knee jerk reaction affecting the wrong people and splitting the player base. Opposite of such things as...steam...steamworks. Which was a smart direction by Valve. Why can't more companies think through the piracy issue and come out on top with some smart choices instead of distancing customers and the games devs want to sell them.

 

[Paulaner]

And then how many paying customers will they scare away to not pay?

We are aware of all this technical stuff, but the buying masses will simply get the game from the shelf without worrying too much. In my opinion the copy protection schemes are not affecting sales in a significant way. There are marketing directors up there in the gaming industry, and they are looking for gains, not losses.

 

[Gray Fox]

The bigger concern with this DRM is how long will it actually be supported. What are the odds in 5 years they are still going to have the validation server up?

They have said that in that case they will release a patch that lets it play without authentication.


In any case, why all the steam love here? just yesterday I tried to start steam in off line mode and it failed. If you have a game could you start up steam indefinitely in offline mode, because off line mode never worked perfectly for me, and the times it did work it worked for about a week until I had to connect to the internet, so as far as I know steam is worse.

 

[VirusType2]

Speaking exclusively to Eurogamer, Taylor said it was "really unfair" to be stealing from and effectively killing the developers trying to keep the PC market alive.

that's a load of crap. Call it what it is. They are trying to make some money. "trying to keep the PC market alive" - that is the biggest load of crap anyone in the industry has ever said. Trying to come off as some kind of savior.

I had to tap into my neighbors internet connection in order to activate Bioshock.

I buy a few games a year, and I was planning on buying Mass Effect and Spore. After hearing this, I won't be buying either! Also not buying anything that uses Steam again. At least not anytime soon.


When a crack comes out for these 2 games, I might buy them and use the crack. I am against piracy, and don't have a reason to do it. It takes a long time to download, it's illegal, it doesn't reward good developers. I'd rather just buy a game and install it, and put the disc in a safe place. Having to have the disc in the drive really annoyed me, but I can understand that.

I've never pirated a game before, but the pirated version will be the only way I'll be able to play the game until there is a crack. I should have internet for a couple more months. Just in time to download them.

Hopefully the outrage will change their minds about this copy protection in advance, so that they don't do something so foolish.

I really feel bad at how much money they will lose for making this incomprehensibly stupid choice. But hey, after seeing threads like this, they have plenty of time to re-evaluate their copy protection scheme.


It's been said over and over, but this only hurts them, and their paying customers. I honestly don't believe that it will keep 1 (ONE) ****ing copy from being pirated. I honestly believe that it will start a wildfire. These games will be the number 1 and 2 most pirated games in history.

I am angry and feel betrayed.


Comparable to a friend that constantly accuses you of stealing something from them, every 10 days, even when you haven't

 

[AmishSlayer]

These games will be the number 1 and 2 most pirated games in history.

I don't know about that. TONS of people d/led Crysis as a benchmark.

 

[Paulaner]

In any case, why all the steam love here? just yesterday I tried to start steam in off line mode and it failed. If you have a game could you start up steam indefinitely in offline mode, because off line mode never worked perfectly for me, and the times it did work it worked for about a week until I had to connect to the internet, so as far as I know steam is worse.

Totally agreed. I love Steam and I have no problem admitting that it needs a fast internet connection to properly work (patches, fixes, updates, and so on). In my opinion Steam is very good and the protection of Mass Effect (as Bioware describes it) is not so worse.

 

[Teta_Bonita]

I'm tempted to pirate this now.

 

[Kyorisu]

Totally agreed. I love Steam and I have no problem admitting that it needs a fast internet connection to properly work (patches, fixes, updates, and so on). In my opinion Steam is very good and the protection of Mass Effect (as Bioware describes it) is not so worse.

Except.

1. Steam DRM works as of RIGHT NOW.
2. Mass Effect/Spore DRM has not been let loose in the wild yet.

Just look at how well the Bioshock launch went. Retail guys got screwed yet my Steam copy worked perfectly from the get go. Although both used the same copy protection (ignoring steam). the Steam version got it's updates from steam mirrors whilst the retail activation server died. How about the COH expansion that refused to take my legitimate key? I predict lots of rage when these games release.

 

[FishBulb]

I like how by using this every 10 days validation policy to try and stop piracy, it has instead provoked most of the members here to pirate it.

 

[Druckles]

I can guarantee it will be no more difficult to obtain a pirated copy of spore than it would be of, say, Crysis. The biggest difference is I can play one without the internet, or risk of "banishment" after a certain time period. So which would I be more likely to pirate?

What the hell was wrong with CD keys, or registration keys? Damn, I miss them already!

 

[Zeus]

What the hell was wrong with CD keys, or registration keys? Damn, I miss them already!

Apparently it wasn't enough for them. I don't know what they were thinking by putting this in. I mean I have the internet connection so it wouldn't likely be a problem as far as activations go (for me at least, but it's still inconvenient for people), but they're not installing that secuROM rootkit on my PC. I'm not fattening a company's wallet who is going to treat PC gamers this way. They're taking this DRM stuff too far, they did it with Bioshock already, it seems like the only way to get them to stop is to hit them where it hurts, in their wallets.

 

[Druckles]

I'm really thinking about changing my mind with buying this game, actually. I've been thinking about it, and treating your paying customers like criminals while the pirates get away with the better game experience just doesn't sit right with me. It's not so much the authentication's frequency or limited installs (which I'm sure they'll get rid of eventually) that bug me, but just the principle of it.

Oh, and speaking of BioShock, it's only $26-30 these days. Maybe I should finally pick it up.

It's a very good game, if not slightly repetitive in certain instances. The atmosphere of the place really was brilliant. At ?15GBP, I'd certainly buy it.

When I first read about this and Spore, I was incredibly disappointed. To the extent I considered not purchasing it. We should organise some form of "legal-gamers" protest. I think fancy-dress would be a must.

 

[Evo]

Don't go pointing fingers at me! Yeah I have done some writings on my own about these issues, but I think some of you are thinking about a Rock, Paper, Shotgun article which I then took and wrote a response to.

 

[Paulaner]

Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Knights Of The Old Republic... don't you think these guys need to be supported? Definitely buying Mass Effect.

 

[Alterego-X]

I like how by using this every 10 days validation policy to try and stop piracy, it has instead provoked most of the members here to pirate it.

I think this is really overreacted.

Games are not politics. You don't have to protest against an idea, or boycott games, to control the market.

If you don't have an Internet connection at all, don't buy these games.
If you really think that these (btw great) games don't worth $50, don't buy them.


But refusing them just because when you start the game, SecuROM automatically checks online, if you have a vaild copy??? This is ridiculous!


This is what causes these systems, like SecuROM: Stupid people who pirate games with the first possible excuse.

If you pirate this game, they will invent something worse.
Yes, they are stupid, and it won't lead anywhere, but someone must stop it first.

 

[Wanted Bob]

The only problem is that Internet connections can come and go, whereas a disk with a code will be there forever (provided you take care of it).

 

[Asus]

But refusing them just because when you start the game, SecuROM automatically checks online, if you have a vaild copy??? This is ridiculous!

I'd like to think I keep my PC clean of crap that can mess it up. And for those who don't mind pirating then that is a key factor to have their cake and eat it too. Personally, I just wouldn't play the game.

This is what causes these systems, like SecuROM: Stupid people who pirate games with the first possible excuse.

If you pirate this game, they will invent something worse.
Yes, they are stupid, and it won't lead anywhere, but someone must stop it first.

But the thing is the pirates don't get stuck with the 'something worse'. They run the games without system checks and less bloat/annoying issues.
The solution to piracy seems to be like a chinese finger trap. And the gaming companies just keep pulling. Giving the paying customer more advanced copy protection. whoo hoo...

I've been thinking about it, and treating your paying customers like criminals while the pirates get away with the better game experience just doesn't sit right with me. It's not so much the authentication's frequency or limited installs (which I'm sure they'll get rid of eventually) that bug me, but just the principle of it.

I agree. Although I'm sure the limited installs and such will piss off a few customers a great deal.

 

[Paulaner]

I'd like to think I keep my PC clean of crap that can mess it up.

I surely trust Bioware more than warez when it comes to safety. The last time I played a pirated game I was asked to do very weird things with my system. Piracy? Thank you but no, thank you.

 

[Kyorisu]

I surely trust Bioware more than warez when it comes to safety. The last time I played a pirated game I was asked to do very weird things with my system. Piracy? Thank you but no, thank you.

Care to elaborate? From what I gather you downloaded a very poor release. Generally it's mount, install, crack and play.

The only problem is that Internet connections can come and go, whereas a disk with a code will be there forever (provided you take care of it).

CDs and DVDs don't last forever. Good for 10 years or so and then who knows.

 

[Kyorisu]

/bloody hell double post.

 

[Paulaner]

Care to elaborate? From what I gather you downloaded a very poor release. Generally it's mount, install, crack and play.

I had to use Daemon Tools, and we know that DT use rootkit technology. Are we fighting SecuROM-rootkit with other rootkits?
The Tools caused my cdrom to malfunction because of a low-level driver issue. I am tech savvy and computers are my job but in that particular case I was not skilled enough to solve the mess. I had to reinstall.

 

[Kyorisu]

I had to use Daemon Tools, and we know that DT use rootkit technology.

Proof? Oh wait you don't have any. In the case of daemon tools you know what you are installing and if not you better uninstall it and start to inform yourself about what you are installing before you do that for any further software you want to use. Besides Daemon tools isn't the only program capable of mounting images.

The Tools caused my cdrom to malfunction because of a low-level driver issue. I am tech savvy and computers are my job but in that particular case I was not skilled enough to solve the mess. I had to reinstall.

Again proof? I've never seen such a thing happen and I can pretty much guarantee you cannot reproduce the problem. Now tell me how can you rate this untested DRM any higher than what you've experienced? It could cause any matter of conflicts with your system. As opposed to people putting things up at there own detriment. they get nothing out of it

 

[Paulaner]

Again proof? I've never seen such a thing happen and I can pretty much guarantee you cannot reproduce the problem.

Proof? I don't think I have to prove anything. We are discussing, this is not a trial.

 

[Kyorisu]

Proof? I don't think I have to prove anything. We are discussing, this is not a trial.

Well it's hard for me to believe what you say without proof now isn't it? Calling warez unsafe just because you had a couple of conflicts with software which could have been caused by a whole bunch of things other than that software itself such as your rom drive. Who's to say this new DRM won't cause any problems?

 

[Paulaner]

Calling warez unsafe just because you had a couple of conflicts with software which could have been caused by a whole bunch of things other than that software itself such as your rom drive. Who's to say this new DRM won't cause any problems?

Well, I don't want to be the defender of the law 'cause the market has its faults and we have every right to criticize it, but talking about software piracy I will never hold a position to defend, justify or promote it. Piracy is bad. It's a crime and it undermines the production of games and applications.
This is my starting point for every discussion.

Note: as for my issue with DT, I really had it but I am not using that to attack piracy. Piracy is bad on its own.

 

[Neo_Kuja]

More worrisome is that the Technical Producer doesn't even know the specifications and effect of the security software he's putting on the disk ! :

http://masseffect.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=628375&forum=125&sp=15

Quote: Posted 05/03/08 20:00 (GMT) by Delerius_Jedi

Hmm, what information specifically is transmitted here, Derek? Is it just the CD key or are things like system information also transmitted?

__________________________________________________________________________

Off hand, I do not know. Its the CD Key and a unique machine identifier of some type. Its the same system that SecuROM has been using for digital activation for years (if you have purchased through Direct2Drive, etc, they all use this same SecuROM system). We used the exact same system for Jade Empire PC when purchased through the BioWare Store.

Another rootkey infestation on my PC, or a hidden application which sends out my PC specs to the databanks of EA without my knowing it ? No thanks.

 

[99.vikram]

I'll be sure to pirate this. I've had it with backfiring anti-piracy measures that keep me from playing games.

 

[VirusType2]

Just to be more clear - I will never buy a game that requires an internet connection for any reason other than to actually use the internet for online play.

And I was thinking about this . Fuc* you very much.

 

[Gargantou]

VirusType2, that still doesn't justify piracy, it does NOT justify copying another persons work without their permission, seeing as no-one is forcing you to get the game, if you don't want a game that requires an internet connection for any other reason than multiplayer, then don't get the game.

But I know all too well how warezers find any excuse they can to try to justify their immoral actions.

 

[Cormeh]

I will never buy a game that requires an internet connection for any reason other than to actually use the internet for online play.

You never bought Half Life 2?

 

[VirusType2]

VirusType2, that still doesn't justify piracy, it does NOT justify copying another persons work without their permission, seeing as no-one is forcing you to get the game, if you don't want a game that requires an internet connection for any other reason than multiplayer, then don't get the game.

But I know all too well how warezers find any excuse they can to try to justify their immoral actions.

as I said in another thread, I've never pirated a game, yet this actually does give me a reason to. There is no way I can play these games without at least a crack to bypass online checks.


But if I don't have internet anymore - for example, a friend from work I may be moving in with doesn't have internet, and it's her house, and I don't know how long I'll be there, so I won't be having internet installed.

I move around a lot, and I've been lucky to have internet access in my past couple residences.. ever, since I have never actually had it installed, and never have had to pay for it yet.


I had planned on buying both as soon as they come out. I make $500 a week and $350 of that is spending or saving money.

I have no reason to steal a video game, when my addiction is satisfied with a couple games a year... No reason to steal one, until now. These are the games I want, yet because of their 'piracy protection' I am not allowed to play a game that I would pay $50 for, even just offline.

Their 'piracy protection' doesn't make sense since I would have the disc in the drive to play them. Doesn't that prove I'm not a pirate?


And sure, I could just not buy the games. In fact that's what I'm going to do. And now you see why I'm pissed. Hardly any good PC games, and the only good ones require internet. Well **** that. People don't pay over $350 for a video card when there aren't any good games for.

And **** consoles too while I'm at it. Give me a huge slot to stick my huge cock in, so I can do just that. They have so many other useless expansion ports, why not a cock slot?

I will never buy a game that requires an internet connection for any reason other than to actually use the internet for online play.
You never bought Half Life 2?

I bought HL2 because I had an internet connection, and I knew I was going to live there for a few years. I will never again buy a steam game.

 

[Blackthorn]

Am I the only one that doesn't see a problem with this? I'm always connected to the internet, and if you're not then here's a box of tissues and an R.E.M. CD.

 

[PimpinPenguin]

So we the legit customers have to prove we are not criminals every 10 days and we have to rely on EA to play the game as they are in charge of the Servers. Are you kidding me, **** it anyway i'am gonna download it since you feel i'am i pirate i might as well be one, least then i know the game will work. It's a very sad day when the pirated version works better than the legit version.