Stern's visit to an American Christan Store

[Zeus]

sigh, how could you have failed to miss the point? kerberos made a comment that allah was leading the charge ..I responded by saying that in the case of the americans it's seems that god led the charge (re: what bush said)



I think you people need to back off, you're seeing something that isnt there ...I distinctly said I wasnt making fun of christians but rather I found it odd that there was so much war memorabilia at a religious store ...I cant see how I could have made that fact any plainer ....I guess you see what you want to see

I completely disagree with your christian stereotype. Just about every thread you make has to try to poke fun at christianity and those who belive in Jesus. "jesus supports the troops" I see nothing wrong with that. Where does that say "jesus supports the iraq war".

 

[southernman17]

So by your standards Ikerous, you support the persecution of Christians? That's what it sounds like. Not only do you support persecuting them, but you think its funny as well. Wow.

 

[Ikerous]

So by your standards Ikerous, you support the persecution of Christians? That's what it sounds like. Not only do you support persecuting them, but you think its funny as well. Wow.

Yes, yes I do. I completely respect your right to believe whatever you'd like, but it doesnt mean i have to respect those beliefs. If they're absolutely ludicrous, I'll tell you.

 

[operative x]

"I guess I'm not really trying to make fun of christians"

orly?

"I was just taken aback by the sheer hypocracy of it all .."bibles for people who kill, get your jesus apprioved death books here before getting your legs blown off in some foreign land full of unclean heathens" ...as an outsider looking in it looks just a little crazy"

Selling a bumper sticker saying "support the troops" ain't exactly saying "get your jesus apprioved death books here before getting your legs blown off in some foreign land full of unclean heathens"

"I just find it extremely odd that a religion would support mass murder

I'm sure that's somekind of compliment, right? I'll say it again, just becuase ONE group of people believe in something doesn't mean ALL OF THE OTHER PEOPLE DO TOO.

" ...is it just me or are people just off their rockers?"

that must be another compliment too right?
I guess im just taken back by the... hypocracy. I don't mean to be this bitchy guy, but you (and lot of people here) bash us wwaaayyyy toooo much.

 

[southernman17]

My belief that Christians should not be persecuted is ludicrous? And your belief that Christians should be is not? Okay, well let me tell you, that I believe your beliefs are sick and twisted. You hate and want to see harm done to approximately 1.6 billion people around the world who are generally peace loving people.

 

[Ikerous]

You hate and want to see harm done to approximately 1.6 billion people around the world who are generally peace loving people.

See, here's where you're wrong. Just because we think you have strange beleifs doesn't mean we hate you. Why would it mean that at all? I like you just as much as anyone I don't know. If you believe something that counters logic, then it's going to be questioned. Just because we happen to be talking about religious beliefs doesn't make them exempt from ridecule.

 

[operative x]

But you have nothing to ridicule us about, yet you still insult us on a daily basis with comments such as "On topic: You should post stories of pwning Christians, I think they'd have pretty good entertainment value." Your a hypocrite, sure you'll say "oh, sure i respect you" then the very minute you forget you say that you bash us. Use Bush as an angle? Go ahead. But remember, NOT EVERYONE AGREES WITH HIM!. If your going to bash him, bash HIM.

 

[southernman17]

I asked if you support persecuting Christians, you responded that you hold that belief. To persecute someone means to cause them harm because you hate that particular group or person. Who's logic is Christianity countering? Yours or other non-believers? Because to us Christians, your logic is illogical to us. So your belief will be questioned as well. There is no universal logic that is right that all humans follow.

 

[Cole]

I'm atheist....I don't believe in god and I was brought up as a christian.

Do I hate chrisitans? No, not at all. Do I think people who believe in God are stupid or inferior or better than I am? No.
I may think believing in any god is strange, but I don't hate or dislike them anymore than if they didn't believe in a god.
If they didn't believe in a god I personally wouldn't care.....it dosn't change who they are.

In all religions your not suppose to go out and mass murder people or kill people, yet over the course of time there have been more wars and battles and fights fought in the name of a religion than I dare to count.

Religion is suppose to be a set of guildlines, but people take it way to far. All religions basically tell us to be a good person and don't be mean, but plenty of people of all religions just care about "pleasing" a god when all their gods have asked them is to be a good person and don't be mean and don't spill blood, and just accept other people for who they are.

 

[Ikerous]

But you have nothing to ridicule us about

It's not my fault I find your beliefs funny. I don't even see why that would matter to you.

yet you still insult us on a daily basis with comments such as "On topic: You should post stories of pwning Christians, I think they'd have pretty good entertainment value."

Actually i almost never post in politics about christians. And in most of the threads i have posted in I argued for the christians. Well, until it was pointed out that my argument was retarded and i conceded :/

Your a hypocrite, sure you'll say "oh, sure i respect you" then the very minute you forget you say that you bash us.

I never said i respected you I simply said i respected your right to believe whatever you want.

Use Bush as an angle? Go ahead. But remember, NOT EVERYONE AGREES WITH HIM!. If your going to bash him, bash HIM.

If you're referring to me.. i never did that...

Sorry about all the quote boxes I just wanted to address the different points...

 

[operative x]

I'm atheist....I don't believe in god and I was brought up as a christian.

Do I hate chrisitans? No, not at all. Do I think people who believe in God are stupid or inferior or better than I am? No.
I may think believing in any god is strange, but I don't hate or dislike them anymore than if they didn't believe in a god.
If they didn't believe in a god I personally wouldn't care.....it dosn't change who they are.

In all religions your not suppose to go out and mass murder people or kill people, yet over the course of time there have been more wars and battles and fights fought in the name of a religion than I dare to count.

Religion is suppose to be a set of guildlines, but people take it way to far. All religions basically tell us to be a good person and don't be mean, but plenty of people of all religions just care about "pleasing" a god when all their gods have asked them is to be a good person and don't be mean and don't spill blood, and just accept other people for who they are.

Religion doesn't force people to start wars and cause murder, it's the people who believe that others must be converted to their religion or die. Sure people have taken lives over religion, but people have also saved lives based on religions. A religion, or set of beliefs, doesn't force an individual whether to save or take life, ultimately it's the person.

/goes to the gym

 

[Adabiviak]

Good heavens, Stern - you've certainly found a sensitive spot. Maybe everyone's off their rockers.

 

[Ikerous]

Good heavens, Stern - you've certainly found a sensitive spot. Maybe everyone's off their rockers.

Gnomes took my rocker.

 

[Cole]

Religion doesn't force people to start wars and cause murder, it's the people who believe that others must be converted to their religion or die. Sure people have taken lives over religion, but people have also saved lives based on religions. A religion, or set of beliefs, doesn't force an individual whether to save or take life, ultimately it's the person.

I'm not trying to pick on religion for causing wars, not at all infact. What im trying to point on is that to many people take religion way to far. It dosn't matter of what religion you are it's the same basic principles. Religion is suppose to be a guideline, a set of rules to live by to help everyone.

Im not ripping on religion, im supporting it but at the same time im trying to stripg it down to a single person.
People forget that religion is a set of guidelines, and im trying to point out that in no religion does it say to kill anyone else.

In no religion does it tell you to pull out a knife and go kill other people from different faiths. In no religion does it tell you to go persecute people. Yet people from one religion will do it to another. It's these people that get so caught up in religion that they have gone against there own religions guidelines.

I'm not saying a world without religion would be better, what I am saying is that a world where everyone would understand that religion is a set of guidelines, and all religions promote the same thing, and they tell you just to be a good person, and it dosn't matter what god you pray to but that your a good person would be ALOT better.

 

[Ikerous]

People forget that religion is a set of guidelines, and im trying to point out that in no religion does it say to kill anyone else.

In no religion does it tell you to pull out a knife and go kill other people from different faiths.

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. -2 Chronicles

I also happen to remember the Israelites traveling throughout the desert killing cities full of people just before entering the promise land. And done so on the order of God just because they were sinners (aka not jewish)

 

[Cole]

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. -2 Chronicles

I also happen to remember the Israelites traveling throughout the desert killing cities full of people just before entering the promise land. And done so on the order of God just because they weren't jews.

Who is "They".
Religion was taken to far here.
As far as I can tell, that is a story about Humans, Men, Women, who went out and killed in the name of there God. No where in that first paragraph does it say the god told them to, but that the people were so radical about there god that they went and did such a thing.

They did it in the order of God, or maybe they did it in the name of God. Words get twisted over the course of time. And if they were so radical about killing people who wern't there faith when begining the search for there promise land, I would question if they really did it in the order of their god or did it because those people didn't follow there religion.

 

[Ikerous]

They did it in the order of God, or maybe they did it in the name of God. Words get twisted over the course of time. And if they were so radical about killing people who wern't there faith when begining the search for there promise land, I would question if they really did it in the order of their god or did it because those people didn't follow there religion.

Well if you don't accept random parts of the Bible, it makes it kinda hard to refute it

Just out of curiosity. Isn't taking random parts out of the picture kinda like creating your own god? Your own version of what you think god is like (Which is often drastically different than how he's portrayed in the Bible). How is that any more sane than coming up with something random like worhipping potatoes?

 

[Adabiviak]

Religious quotations taken out of context - sell anything you want! Add credibility to your marketing campaign with a few, cleverly placed quotations, and watch the religious sect of your choice come runnin'! Need to sell a war to a country of pacifists? Need to talk mothers into sending their children to the front lines? Need some more suicide bombers? There's tons of text with hazy metaphors that only educated readers with historical backgrounds might fathom, perfect for getting most people to do, well, whatever the need du jour happens to be. Is that birth control clinic down the road bothering you? Do those smug americans think they can get away with supporting the Jews? Are you tired of other americans teasing you because you support the old "south"? We've got what you need!

 

[Ikerous]

Religious quotations taken out of context

Thats why i added about the fourty years in the desert... I was discussing an entire concept rather than just using a quote. Can anyone actually believe the acts committed by the Israelites were justified (i.e jericho)?

(And i really don't mean to come off so judgemental, I'm actually more curious than anything)

 

[operative x]

Um ok? You’re sarcastically referring to people that whore the Bible for their own personal interests/money. Congrats? Good and bad come from any given religion. Does that make religion itself bad? No. Just who exactly interprets it. That reminds of video games. Do video games themselves cause violence? No. Just who exactly plays them and whether they can handle the material.

 

[Ikerous]

Do video games themselves cause violence? No. Just who exactly plays them and whether they can handle the material.

But the thing is, if i believed that video games did cause violence, wouldn't you try to convince me otherwise? Even though good comes from people that think that (i.e making sure stores dont sell MA games to kids), but mostly, their beliefs are just unjustifiable and weird.

 

[Cole]

Well if you don't accept random parts of the Bible, it makes it kinda hard to refute it

I accept what you say, but the fact remains that we do not know if a loud voice from the sky yelled down to kill the people around, or if they just decided to go about and kill them like they were doing to everyone who wasn't there religion anyway which according to what I read a god never told them to do. They just went and did it to everyone who would not seek the lord. Then when it came time to enter the promise land, they killed everyone around there.
I doubt a god told them to, I mean they were already killing everyone who wouldn't seek there lord. Why wouldn't they kill them?

our own version of what you think god is like (Which is often drastically different than how he's portrayed in the Bible).

I wouldn't know, I don't believe in a god. I don't try to imagine what other people think god would be like. I believe there is no god.

 

[Ikerous]

I accept what you say, but the fact remains that we do not know if a loud voice from the sky yelled down to kill the people around, or if they just decided to go about and kill them like they were doing to everyone who wasn't there religion anyway which according to what I read a god never told them to do. They just went and did it to everyone who would not seek the lord. Then when it came time to enter the promise land, they killed everyone around there.
I doubt a god told them to, I mean they were already killing everyone who wouldn't seek there lord. Why wouldn't they kill them?

Well obviously I completely agrea... i don't think god told them either, mostly cuz i also dont think a god exists. But I'm just saying people do believe that, and yet still worship a god they think would do that...

 

[operative x]

But the thing is, if i believed that video games did cause violence, wouldn't you try to convince me otherwise? Even though good comes from people that think that (i.e making sure stores dont sell MA games to kids), but mostly, their beliefs are just unjustifiable and weird.

Sure their beliefs are strange. People should have the choice of choosing what they want. Everyone, for the most part, is born with somekind of conscience. Whether you look at that as a "spirit" or not is up to you, but deep down inside you know what your doing and whether it is right or wrong. Even the Bible says people should have a choice.

 

[Ikerous]

Sure their beliefs are strange. People should have the choice of choosing what they want. Everyone, for the most part, is born with somekind of conscience. Whether you look at that as a "spirit" or not is up to you

Again, i agrea. And i wouldn't find it nearly as weird if someone called their conscienceness a spirit. But to believe in the Bible which says that god sent his believers (or bears in one case) to kill children just because they were of a different religion is just beyond my grasp.

 

[Adabiviak]

eh - it's just funny to me that religion (pick your favorite) is used/has been used like this since, well, it's inception. In fact, my "religion" is built on this - my previous rant would make a good devival if I could figure out how to make a couple of bucks at it.

 

[operative x]

But to believe in the Bible which says that god sent his believers (or bears in one case) to kill children just because they were of a different religion is just beyond my grasp.

i have never seen a passage in ANY bible condoning such violence. Again, it's almost identical to the argument of, do video games cause people to do violent actions? In my personal opinion, no.

 

[Ikerous]

i have never seen a passage in ANY bible condoning such violence. Again, it's almost identical to the argument of, do video games cause people to do violent actions? In my personal opinion, no.

I'm not saying Christians want to kill people... that wouldnt make sense XD I'm just saying its weird to believe that god wants you to kill people.

And if you've never read where it condones those kind of violent actions i recommend (If you actually care at all ) reading the story of Jericho. I believe it's in Joshua 6.

 

[Raeven0]

Sigh. Ladies and gentlemen, turn your attention to the west gate for Reflections on Religion from Someone who's Actually Familiar With It.

In the Old Testament, God is quite often seen dumping his wrath out over the earth. The wandering Israelites were permitted to conquer everyone they found on the way to the promised land on the justification that those people had been using the land wrongly since God gave it to them after the flood. This is God's retribution, delivered via the Jews--but we also read that when the Jews turned from God, they were no longer allowed to be his weapons. The II Chronicles quote is so horribly taken out of context, but it's effective because I don't think anyone here would actually look up the verse to challenge it--what actually happened was that the government of Israel had just changed under the ruler Asa, so that the people took an oath to put all Israelites to death who would not accept and obey the God of Israel, because it was obvious to them that only with his support could they have peace and prosperity.

 

[Ikerous]

The wandering Israelites were permitted to conquer everyone they found on the way to the promised land on the justification that those people had been using the land wrongly since God gave it to them after the flood. This is God's retribution, delivered via the Jews

See, i just don't understand how someone could be content with God, the almight benevelant 'father', sending men into a city to shuv a sword through all the children and elderly. I just don't see how people can say it's okay cuz 'God gave em the land'.

And yes, the second chronicles quote was taken out of context Which is why i cared a lot more about the other topic

 

[MilkMan12]

yes it happened ..was in the US yesterday (niagara falls) to do a little cross border shopping and while there my wife and I walked into a Christian store ..me more out of amusement while my wife was looking for a bible for her mother who needed a new one - thankfully she's not all that religious and jokes with me about the evils of catholicism ..see I'm catholic (my family is) she's United Church (anglican, by far the most modern of christian faiths))


I was really surprised by the amount of patriotism and "god bless our troops" books, posters, bumper stickers etc ..there was even bibles for specific branches: ie: A Marines Bible, Sailors Bible etc ...I just find it extremely odd that a religion would support mass murder in this day and age cuz that's pretty much what war is today.

The woman who was there was nice enough to answer a few questions, specifically
this version has small text, this version has leather binding etc) but I couldnt help but notice the zealot's gleam in her eye ..I really wanted to challenge her on a few things but felt it was inappropriate ..ok that's a lie ..my wife told me to behave before we entered the store


I guess I'm not really trying to make fun of christians I was just taken aback by the sheer hypocracy of it all .."bibles for people who kill, get your jesus apprioved death books here before getting your legs blown off in some foreign land full of unclean heathens" ...as an outsider looking in it looks just a little crazy


oh and I fnally got to see a copy of bibleman ...pure comedic gold ..I just couldnt make up that kind of stuff if I tried


oh and I loved the bumper stickers

"All it takes is one time to get AIDS"

"Abortion costs the life of a child" ...no shit sherlock

"Jesus supports the troops" ...I wanted to buy it but it was $12 for something my neighbours might take the wrong way ...I wonder if in some dusty shop in Afghhanistan there's a bumper sticker for sale that reads "Allah supports the troops, bring them home safely" ...is it just me or are people just off their rockers?

I would say thats a pretty damn radical statement you got there...

By the way where the **** does it say the Jews turned from God? That totally came out of left field...

 

[Dr. Freeman]

so Stern, forget everthing else, are u a Bibleman fan?

 

[Raeven0]

See, i just don't understand how someone could be content with God, the almight benevelant 'father', sending men into a city to shuv a sword through all the children and elderly. I just don't see how people can say it's okay cuz 'God gave em the land'.

Sometimes they took the elderly, women, and children as slaves. Mostly just killed them unless they professed newfound belief in the God of Israel. I've never understood the distinction between the old and the young anyway; a 100-year-old Hitler-worshipping Nazi is surely no less worthy of a punch in the face than a 20-year-old one.

Milkman: they were complaining all through their trip out of Egypt (as one person put it, every time they had a business meeting, someone made a motion to kill Moses and go back to Egypt), they didn't trust God enough to go straight into the promised land, they defiled the Ark of the Covenant on many occasions, oftentimes they had some adultery or whatever within the camp and had to take the sinners out and stone them because those sinners were causing lost battles, etc.

 

[Ikerous]

Sometimes they took the elderly, women, and children as slaves. Mostly just killed them unless they professed newfound belief in the God of Israel.

And that's scarey ^_^

I've never understood the distinction between the old and the young anyway; a 100-year-old Hitler-worshipping Nazi is surely no less worthy of a punch in the face than a 20-year-old one.

I mostly mentioned age because i find people are usually against the murdering of infants, no matter what the cause (go figure)

 

[Raeven0]

I mostly mentioned age because i find people are usually against the murdering of infants, no matter what the cause (go figure)

If the infant is a Hitler-worshipping Nazi, it still needs a punch in the face

 

[>>FrEnZy<<]

I'm not at all suprised. The abundance of ignorant evangelicals in america is unnerving. They supply about 80% of Bushes votes. They are just completely lost, arrogant and simple minded. jesus lovesss youuu! lets hold handsssssss and hug! god man, i can't stand the shit. If I was a christian, the last place I would want to go is america. I couldnt live with my self amoungst those crazy ignorant evangelicals.

 

[Reaktor4]

But you have nothing to ridicule us about

How about living your life by what it says in a book of stories?

 

[15357]

I have a great Idea. lets outlaw religion.

 

[CptStern]

holy shit (no disrespect intended :upstare: to any religion anywhere) what the **** are you people raving on about? I think some of you need to stop, and just listen for a ****ing change. I'm not bashing christianity, I'm not bashing the bible I'm not bashing people's beliefs ...HOWEVER I am poking fun at something I find to be ludicrous as is my right to do ..it doesnt mean I look down on them (I mentioned that the owner was very nice albeit perhaps a little ....dedicated in her faith) it doesnt mean I hold them in contempt, it doesnt mean that I judge a entire segment of society under the same scrutinous microscope ..it just means I WENT TO A ****ING CHRISTIAN STORE I HAD A LAUGH JUST LIKE PEOPLE LAUGH AT NED FLANDERS ..jeez (is "jeez" jesus? cuz if it is I meant no disrespect to christians or jesus or even jews (jesus was jewish))




btw I bet you people raving of how I'm anti-christian didnt know I was born and raised a catholic? even went to a private catholic high school .....how do you like dem rotten apples huh?



disclaimer: the contents of the above post is meant to be taken with a grain of salt, it's sardonic if you will, tongue in cheek, smarmy and maybe even a little flippant, but it is not intended to insinuate christians are in league with satan, nor with his cabana boy: George W Bush






Dr Freeman: nananananananananana BIBLEMAN BIBLEMAN!!!

come on guys where's you sense of humour...bibleman IS funny

 

[operative x]

How about living your life by what it says in a book of stories?

It's a book about philosophies. As opposed to cluelessly wandering around the world selfishly thinking about yourself.