Stop Complaining Americans!

[Dandan]

Anyone else sick of people complaining about how bad us Americans are having it? I for one can't stand it. We live in a country where we eat so much we need motorized carts to get to the supermarket. We live in a country where you can lose your job and still get paid for a long ass time. We live in a country where if you work hard, you'll be able to enjoy retirement and golf your ass into Alzheimer's. We have free concerts, free wifi, free public services, etc. In other countries, people don't even get fed for entire days. I was reading an older magazine from August 2011 in our break room at work about the Somali famine and it disgusted me how easy we Americans have it. I'm done ranting now but the people in Occupy Wall-street are not the 99%. They represent those who just don't know when to stop complaining

 

[Escaep]

impeach obama

 

[Robbo]

Stop, complaining Americans. Or. Stop complaining, Americans.?

 

[Vegeta897]

We must stop the complaining Americans.

 

[MJ12]

"My dad is raping me!"


"STOP COMPLAINING, YOU LIVE IN A HOUSE THAT HAS FREE INTERNET!"

 

[Dekstar]

If there's anything I've learned from Reddit's Third World Success Kid meme, it's that they at least enjoy their poverty.

 

[JFry]

I'm torn on this one. On the one hand I agree with you that in relation to most of the rest of the world we have it very good and lead pretty easy lives. On the other hand in the context of the 99% vs the 1% thing I think the super rich take it to a whole new level. Think Paris Hilton, jersey shore type people, completely out of touch with reality. Think about what these people contribute to society vs what they consume. I don't think they deserve it.

 

[Raziaar]

Anyone else sick of people complaining about how bad us Americans are having it? I for one can't stand it. We live in a country where we eat so much we need motorized carts to get to the supermarket. We live in a country where you can lose your job and still get paid for a long ass time. We live in a country where if you work hard, you'll be able to enjoy retirement and golf your ass into Alzheimer's. We have free concerts, free wifi, free public services, etc. In other countries, people don't even get fed for entire days. I was reading an older magazine from August 2011 in our break room at work about the Somali famine and it disgusted me how easy we Americans have it. I'm done ranting now but the people in Occupy Wall-street are not the 99%. They represent those who just don't know when to stop complaining

We don't live in a world where Poverty within each country is rated compared to every other country in the world.

If you're going to compare every miserable thing to something else going on in the world or throughout history, nobody is going to have a right to explain except the most completely shafted individuals on the planet who were violently killed at a young age. Those people in other countries who don't even get fed for entire days have it easy compared to the individuals who never get fed at all and just simply die.

Poverty is not all rated on the same scale.

 

[Dog--]

As far as the world goes North America is the top 1% (well not actually 1%, I'm sure NA is more then 1% of the world, but you know what I mean).

Also the occupy people are retards.


Also what he VVVV said

 

[Remus]

I don't think they deserve it.

Well in the case of someone like Paris Hilton, who was born in a rich family, I would agree.
However if you're someone that started from the ground up and accumulated through years of work your own fortune, should you feel guilty for being rich? I don't think so.

 

[sixteenth]

Politics circlejerk thread in 3.... 2... 1...

 

[Krynn72]

Politics circlejerk thread in 3.... 2... 1...

Ignition...

Well in the case of someone like Paris Hilton, who was born in a rich family, I would agree.
However if you're someone that started from the ground up and accumulated through years of work your own fortune, should you feel guilty for being rich? I don't think so.

Wall Street is full of rich assholes who make their money by screwing everyone else out of money via loopholes, lawsuits and all the other ridiculous shit they pulled that put our economy in this predicament. A rich person who got that way via hard work doing something that contributed to society is one thing. A rich person who got that way via hard work doing something to **** his fellow countrymen can go **** himself. Just because there was work or effort involved doesn't mean they deserve shitloads of money for it.




... liftoff.

 

[Bad^Hat]

America is also apparently full of people who don't understand how to view problems critically instead of just emotionally.

 

[Viperidae]

 

[Yuri]

my god are people still this uninformed about Occupy Wall Street?

maybe the reason so many people are upset is because of the rampant ignorance in this country, as completely evident in this thread.

 

[Remus]

A rich person who got that way via hard work doing something that contributed to society is one thing.

That's what I meant.

However...

A rich person who got that way via hard work doing something to **** his fellow countrymen.

That's fine too...
If I'm the one doing it.
trollface.jpg

 

[Stigmata]

If you're against OWS, pick one:
- you're part of the 1%
- you believe you're part of the 1%
- you're trying very hard to be part of the 1%
- you've been misinformed about the nature of OWS and think it's just lazy hippies who want luxuries for free

 

[DEATHMASTER]

Clearly this is thread is to stop the complaining americans, through any means necessary.

 

[Bad^Hat]

If you're against OWS, pick one:
- you're part of the 1%
- you believe you're part of the 1%
- you're trying very hard to be part of the 1%
- you've been misinformed about the nature of OWS and think it's just lazy hippies who want luxuries for free

Fifth option, you're satisfied enough with the status quo that you don't have any immediate reason to try and enact change, therefore justify your own complacency by calling those who aren't lazy and/or privileged. :v

 

[Yuri]

If you're against OWS, pick one:
- you're part of the 1%
- you believe you're part of the 1%
- you're trying very hard to be part of the 1%
- you've been misinformed about the nature of OWS and think it's just lazy hippies who want luxuries for free

Well said.

It is utterly and hopelessly depressing to me how many people seem to feel that OWS has anything to do with "free handouts." That is something that mass media has continually lied about, and apparently people are so lazy and uninformed about any bit of anything that they just stick to that baseless and false interpretation.

Hint: People are complaining because the sharply-declining economy is on the verge of collapse due to the widespread greed and corruption of a handful of wealthy, powerful people. All of that dumb shit you decided to list out that somehow separates America as such a great place to live is wholly irrelevant in the face of economic crisis. Unemployment continues to sour, the middle class is slowly dissolving, and the American public has no voice in any semblance of government decisions. People aren't asking for free handouts, they are asking for the government to actually take some action against the greed-driven decisions that have driven our economy to hell, rather than being controlled by the people who are making them.

I'm done ranting now but the people in Occupy Wall-street are not the 99%. They represent those who just don't know when to stop complaining

Also the occupy people are retards.

To be blunt: You should both be horrendously ashamed; it's frankly embarrassing how uninformed you must be to have this opinion.

 

[Dog--]

To be blunt: You should both be horrendously ashamed; it's frankly embarrassing how uninformed you must be to have this opinion.

I never said the idea behind it was stupid, how can it be? I said the people are. Mostly just college-aged kids who are looking for something to protest for the sake of protesting something. Idiots bringing down the image of the whole thing.

 

[Xevrex]

impeach obama

I hope this is a troll post, but let me remind people that presidents cannot be impeached WITHOUT REASONABLE EVIDENCE TO HAVING COMMITTED HIGH CRIMES, high crimes being defined by the constitution as treason, bribery, etc. Reasonable evidence is the only way to convince the House to indict the President before the Senate can try him, and as far as I am aware the President has not committed high crimes. And don't try to come back with "what he's doing to this country is treasonous" because what he's doing is a matter of personal ideology, not a matter of national defence/protection against sabotage.

But if that was just a joke post then I apologise for the rant and much <3 Escaep

 

[Stigmata]

I never said the idea behind it was stupid, how can it be? I said the people are. Mostly just college-aged kids who are looking for something to protest for the sake of protesting something. Idiots bringing down the image of the whole thing.

What are you basing this on? If people were just protesting for the sake of protesting, why is it OWS that has ballooned with these ne'er-do-goods instead of the hundreds of other protests that have taken place throughout the year? Anyway, I can't imagine a person who decides to protest for the heck of it - it's stressful, it's degrading, and it's boring. What you're thinking of is people who go out protesting looking for a riot. But riots aren't taking place.

 

[Yuri]

I never said the idea behind it was stupid, how can it be? I said the people are. Mostly just college-aged kids who are looking for something to protest for the sake of protesting something. Idiots bringing down the image of the whole thing.

Recent college graduates are among those getting screwed the hardest. After investing hundreds of thousands of dollars in their education in the prospect of work post-graduation, they are faced with a ~10% unemployment rate... and entry level jobs are particularly difficult to find. One of the sickest things I've heard at the OWS protests was some bank in Chicago that let loose thousands of McDonald's applications over the crowd. There was a Cracked.com article which mentioned the bitter irony of how the previous generation would always say "Go to college or get used to saying 'do you want fries with that!' But now that they've earned their degrees and are up to their eyeballs in debt, that same generation calls them lazy assholes and suggests they get that very same job?

That being said, I'm sure there are a fair amount of crazies, lazy morons, and assholes at OWS... but the same can be said about literally every protest ever. The idea of course will attract those who probably should have remained under their rock. But that obviously shouldn't undermine the cause as a whole.

 

[Dog--]

Probably less lazy idiots than I think, but more than you guys think. Have you seen that shit where they were protesting as zombies? Have you read their rationale on that?

Everyone come dressed as a corporate zombie! This means jacket and tie if possible, white face, fake blood, eating monopoly money, and doing a slow march, so when people come to work on Monday in this neighborhood they see us reflecting the metaphor of their actions. Tell your friends, Facebook it, Twitter it, and it can be MJ Thriller-style too! Create a different image than police brutality!

Are you ****ing kidding me?

 

[Stigmata]

That seems completely legit to me. God forbid a fraction of the protestors have a bit of fun communicating their message.

Does it somehow invalidate the rest of the protest?

 

[Bad^Hat]

I never said the idea behind it was stupid, how can it be? I said the people are. Mostly just college-aged kids who are looking for something to protest for the sake of protesting something. Idiots bringing down the image of the whole thing.

This is a perfectly valid point as long as you're stupid enough to make judgments based purely on image.

Are you?

Edit: Something just occurred to me - what's your opinion on what happened at UC Davis? You know, the completely peaceful protest that took place at a ****ing university? The one that continued to be peaceful even after the police turned violent? Yeah what ****ing rabble am I right. They probably just got pepper sprayed without retaliating because they were hungry.

 

[Mr Stabby]

From what I've seen of OWS on youtube, they are mainly clownish hippie communists. However the message they're supposed to have, that the financial and poltical classes of America are working togethor to **** everyone else, is a very legitamite concern, not only for Americans but for Europeans as well.

 

[Remus]

clownish hippie communists.

Mental image: A guy with a Che shirt, clown mask, and a peace symbol necklace.

 

[dfc05]

OWS is a really mixed bag for me. I can't totally agree with everything so I have to run down specific points, like...

I agree with the closing loopholes, limiting lobbying, etc. Framing it as 99% vs. 1% still doesn't sit well with me though. There are a lot of bad connotations associated with that. Pick a better catchphrase.

For the student issues, I can maybe agree with interest-free student loans and definitely agree with open reporting of how universities use tuition funds. But I can't support debt forgiveness. That's something students could've calculated and prepared for in advance. I can't think of anyone who went through an applied field (e.g. engineering) and is currently out of a job. And I graduated when people were getting laid off left and right. Even the dudes with C averages got jobs. It maybe took a year but they did alright. I'm not saying everyone should go into engineering, but if you're going into say, English literature, there is an obviously high risk that you will not have a job when you graduate. If someone is taking out loans for their own education, they should assess that risk in advance instead of accumulating 4 years of debt and being like "Oh crap no jobs?"

 

[Stigmata]

Spoiler

Someone else's commentary:

Still wondering what Occupy Wall Street is protesting? The common thread is institutional inequality. Here are some infographics. (Images via.)

Edit: I got some questions about this line in the first infographic: “Of the 93% of people who support the protests, only 12% are unemployed.”

This poll found that 93% of those who view OWS favorably also support the protesters’ right to camp out in parks. So support among a general audience for OWS isn’t 93%; support among OWS supporters for the right to physically occupy public space is 93%.

The graphic, then, seeks to show that very few park-occupiers are unemployed — take that, Newt Gingrich! — and that people who tell protesters to go get a job are either ignoring facts that are politically inconvenient or don’t know what they’re talking about in the first place. Whoever made the graphic could have presented this connection better.

This is a point I’m particularly interested in after reading this nice piece of commentary, which I more or less agree with: “Unfortunately, the movement is coming dangerously close to being about the right to camp anywhere anyone wishes to. And that’s not really a big deal at all.”
[source]

 

[dfc05]

Meh, the CEO-worker pay thing is the other issue that I can't entirely get behind, especially in those kinds of infographic forms. While I agree that it would be nice for them to distribute their profits more to their workers, making CEO's nicer isn't something that can be regulated. It's a capitalistic economy. If someone owns a company and wants to keep the profits for himself, you can't forcibly take it from him, except through taxation or raising minimum wage -- the former which I agree should be addressed by closing loopholes.

But simply saying "the average CEO makes 350x more than the average worker" or "1 CEO could pay for 252 firefighters" and expecting we should do something about it, isn't entirely reasonable. I could just as easily say something like "One $50 video game could pay for 2 clay pots to disinfect drinking water for 2 families in Nicaragua." And it would be true. It would make the world a better place if everyone donated a spare $50 for drinking water disinfection, or if every CEO gave up part of their salary to pay teachers. But you can't force anyone to do it.

Or, to summarize in terms of those figures:
Glass-Steagall act = big thumbs up (direct, specific, and concrete)
Mentioning tax breaks = thumbs up (can be changed by closing tax loopholes)
Mentioning military vs. education funding = ok (can be changed by a concrete policy shift)
1 CEO salary is 350 workers' salaries = :\ (non-actionable statistic)

Or if I could put it yet a different way:
I think we are comparing CEOs to the wrong thing. It should be: "All CEOs should be paying 35% (or whatever it is) taxes, but some CEOs are exploiting loopholes, which is wrong." But instead, some of those infographics are saying "Some CEOs are not paying their full taxes, and teachers make 10 bajillion times less money," or worse -- simply "CEOs make 10 bajillion times more money than teachers." Mentioning the teachers almost makes it worse because the first way indicates a legitimate offense, whereas the third way makes one sound bitter and whiny.... which ultimately leads to threads titled "Stop Complaining Americans!"

!!!

yeah ok I think I'm done now

 

[Dynasty]

There's only one thing about the yanks I could punch them in the face for complaining about, and that's your fuel prices.

*best stereotypical, whiny, american blonde voice like something out of The OC* ''Oh my gaaaaaaad, gas is like, 4 bucks a gallon, so unfair like, totally.''

Well, try $9(+) a gallon as we have it here in the UK, some places it's almost $11. The lowest I have ever seen petrol prices in the UK, was in 2006-2007 or so, when it was 86p a litre. That's about $6 a gallon with today's conversion rate. That was, what, 4 years ago. Now, its 132p a litre. On a 40 litre tank, that's 52.8 pounds to fill from empty. $82.

It's easy to argue that petrol prices are strangling the UK economy. We have, quite simple, one of the cheapest prices for petrol and diesel in the whole of Europe. Not bad for a country that predominantly imports it. Oh, that's BEFORE tax though. Fuel is actually around 50p a litre. That jumps, now, to 132p a litre, some places are 145p a litre. Almost TRIPLE the amount it is actually worth. All in ***king tax.

Oh, and we are legally obligated to pay Road Tax every year, that's around from anything from $0 for hybrids/electric cars, to $45 for a small, economical city car with 2 seats, to $624 or so for a 4x4. I pay $375 a year for mine. Then there's obligatory insurance, which I pay $507 a year for. MOT (road test to make sure your car is safe for the road), is $78 a year. So, just for the privelage of having my car on the road in the UK, I pay $960. Without the MOT, you cant get insurance. Without insurance, you cant get the road tax. If either one is missing when the cops pull you over, you basically get banned from driving or a frigging HEAVY fine and like 9 points on your license, which has a limit of 12. One speeding ticket + caught with no insurance/road tax and you're banned for years.

People here are being forced off the road due to ridiculous prices, and the government has to keep scrapping scheduled fuel tax/duty rises which saves us a few, literally, pence. Part of me thinks ''well stop buying as much alcohol instead to reflect the higher prices of fuel to lower your bills?''

That and we're being shafted left and right by energy providers. ''Our prices have shot through the roof. And so have our profits!''. How the ***k does that make sense?

Then there's the banks here in Europe who couldnt organise a piss-up in a brewery.

The UK's RETARDED wellfare system, where people on benefits effectively get a raise during a recession to match inflation and everyone in the public sector gets a frozen 1% raise for the next 4 years...not that I'm bothered about that, those on strike can go, as Jeremy Clarkson put it, ''Get taken outside and shot infront of their families.'' Most ridiculous reason to strike I've heard ever. ''Our pensions are being destroyed.'' Awwwww, blub blub blub, SO IS MINE YOU SELFISH, AROGANT P*ICKS! But you dont see ME shutting down the ***king country for a day COSTING US AROUND 500 MILLION!

God I need out of this shithole. How hard is it to move to the US or Japan or Australia? Had enough of this bloody place.

 

[Yuri]

Meh, the CEO-worker pay thing is the other issue that I can't entirely get behind, especially in those kinds of infographic forms. While I agree that it would be nice for them to distribute their profits more to their workers, making CEO's nicer isn't something that can be regulated. It's a capitalistic economy. If someone owns a company and wants to keep the profits for himself, you can't forcibly take it from him, except through taxation or raising minimum wage -- the former which I agree should be addressed by closing loopholes.

But simply saying "the average CEO makes 350x more than the average worker" or "1 CEO could pay for 252 firefighters" and expecting we should do something about it, isn't entirely reasonable. I could just as easily say something like "One $50 video game could pay for 2 clay pots to disinfect drinking water for 2 families in Nicaragua." And it would be true. It would make the world a better place if everyone donated a spare $50 for drinking water disinfection, or if every CEO gave up part of their salary to pay teachers. But you can't force anyone to do it.

Or, to summarize in terms of those figures:
Glass-Steagall act = big thumbs up (direct, specific, and concrete)
Mentioning tax breaks = thumbs up (can be changed by closing tax loopholes)
Mentioning military vs. education funding = ok (can be changed by a concrete policy shift)
1 CEO salary is 350 workers' salaries = :\ (non-actionable statistic)

Or if I could put it yet a different way:
I think we are comparing CEOs to the wrong thing. It should be: "All CEOs should be paying 35% (or whatever it is) taxes, but some CEOs are exploiting loopholes, which is wrong." But instead, some of those infographics are saying "Some CEOs are not paying their full taxes, and teachers make 10 bajillion times less money," or worse -- simply "CEOs make 10 bajillion times more money than teachers." Mentioning the teachers almost makes it worse because the first way indicates a legitimate offense, whereas the third way makes one sound bitter and whiny.... which ultimately leads to threads titled "Stop Complaining Americans!"

!!!

yeah ok I think I'm done now

Views on capitalism aside, did you see this infographic in particular? There are a few more out there which clearly indicate that the gap between CEO's and the average worker have been rapidly increasing over the past couple decades. This isn't just capitalism at work-- it is the result of the corruption and loopholes, which you recognize, that are driving our economy into the toilet. Billionaires are making more and more money as the average middle class makes less and less, directly due to both the lack of government interference and actual legitimate government corruption. A government in which the actual population has no say. How can you perceive stating this as "whiny?"

Yes, it is important to illustrate how many teacher's salaries could have been paid instead of inexplicable tax breaks for the ridiculously wealthy. It is a very plain, simple, direct, and easy to understand example of why and how the government is failing its citizens. Are you still going to call people whiny when we fall into another depression while the billionaires safely hold onto their enormous fortunes?



I think everyone in this thread should read this article. It's an accurate breakdown of OWS's concerns. And if you want a shorter one with an edge of comedy, read Cookie Monster's account on the issues. But for the love of god, actually read about this shit before you judge it.

 

[15357]

I have nothing against occupy wall street. I do have a problem with the local occupy XXXX movements that sprung from that disease to infect the minds of university students over here.

Also, as a student of economics I am compelled to believe that they are all stupid hippies and the status quo is awesome.



More seriously though, I am against any movement that suddenly condemns myself or anyone else to be part of an invented, artificial social class that is somehow oppressing or depriving the "majority" of their rights simply because I don't agree with their viewpoints. Also about that bullshit: what idiot takes risks that could destroy the entire economy especially when the economy itself is what keeps them afloat. You think after the economy collapses the rich will become richer? Apparently democracy means to them that somehow you have the best idea how to run the country.

Also the thing about wages; as GDP rises, prices inflate, and wages rise along with them. The claim that "Wages have stayed flat" for the past 30 years is ridiculous.

And yes, I agree that the rich should be taxed more, but not companies. The modern capitalist economy's backbone is the companies, whether you like it or not. And basically what the OWS movement wants isn't more taxes on property, but more taxes on income as well as more regulations on corporations. That is going to hurt the economy more than you realize. The OWS movement, I understand, is not a movement the is coherent and organized. The Bolsheviks at least had a unified agenda of sorts (before they disintegrated). Some call for the reduction of defense spending. I wonder if they realize the greater long-term strategic repercussions of such an action, as well as the percentage of the US economy (and the world, for that matter) that depends on defense spending.

 

[Raziaar]

Meh, the CEO-worker pay thing is the other issue that I can't entirely get behind, especially in those kinds of infographic forms. While I agree that it would be nice for them to distribute their profits more to their workers, making CEO's nicer isn't something that can be regulated. It's a capitalistic economy. If someone owns a company and wants to keep the profits for himself, you can't forcibly take it from him, except through taxation or raising minimum wage -- the former which I agree should be addressed by closing loopholes.

Most CEO's are just hired employees like everybody else.

 

[ríomhaire]

Meh, the CEO-worker pay thing is the other issue that I can't entirely get behind, especially in those kinds of infographic forms. While I agree that it would be nice for them to distribute their profits more to their workers, making CEO's nicer isn't something that can be regulated. It's a capitalistic economy.

I think the whole point is that people are saying unregulated capitalism is a bad ****ing idea, so please don't say "well that's how the system works" because that's everyone's point. That is how the system works and we would like a different system because the current one sucks.

 

[JFry]

^ Exactly. I think capitalism is the best system man has invented so far for dealing with the economy. However it's clearly not perfect and I don't understand why some people get so upset when you suggest anything else. At it's core capitalism rewards greed, and it becomes more obvious every day that we have limited resources. Being successful in capitalism demands constant growth. I think it's time we start being honest with ourselves about the fact that unchecked growth is not sustainable and inevitably leads to things like famines, droughts, and wars over oil. I think we have enough resources to maintain a better standard of living for everyone. Things like housing, basic utilities, healthcare, food. People shouldn't have to worry about these things at the cost of some CEO being able to indulge in having a private jet and a mansion. There should still be elements of capitalism in place to retain the good aspects like driving competition between companies, it just doesn't need to be so out of proportion as it is now.

 

[15357]

I don't think you guys actually grasp the realities of the situation. We're basically at pareto-optimal efficiency; this is as good as it gets for everyone (until the economy grows some more, of course). The current system may suck but it's helluva lot better than the ones we had before; feudalism, slave-centricity, pillage, etc.

I understand that you don't like CEOs getting lots of money, but I cannot understand why you think a worker deserves just as much pay, or perhaps simply more pay. Or why you think penalizing people for getting lots of money is just. Are they ill-gotten? Some, possibly. How can you judge? Sure, I'd like to see more taxes on the rich, so that we can spend more on tanks and feeding poor people. But I understand the repercussions on the economy that comes from such taxes.

 

[ríomhaire]

I don't think you guys actually grasp the realities of the situation. We're basically at pareto-optimal efficiency; this is as good as it gets for everyone (until the economy grows some more, of course).

You see that's part of the problem. Capitalism demands constant growth and constant use of resources. Burning resources like a mother****er is a great thing in capitalism. Cutting down a forest is great. You employ people to cut down all the trees, you employ people to move the trees, you employ people to make the trees into paper, you employ people to print stuff on the paper, you employ people to gather the used paper and dispose of it. But that said, cutting down all the forests in the long run is ****ing terrible idea. Capitalism demands constant consumption and last time I checked the Earth wasn't infinitely big and didn't have an infinite amount of resources to use. If we ever want to get off this rock and survive for a bit longer in space (or just survive for a bit longer here) we need to stop wasting so much shit.

Take a can of coke. It's utterly retarded that we buy hundreds of tin cans, film them with liquid, drink the liquid and throw away the cans made of useful aluminium. Even recycling it is really stupid. Use the can once, melt it down and make it back into more cans? Retarded. We should not have so much stupid disposable packaging if we want the species to survive for as long as it can. We need to sell liquids on tap instead of in bottles and have stuff in shops in crates that we take the amount we want out of. I know this is kind of getting off the point, but it's just another problem I have with capitalism.