Stop the War March in Manchester

[Korgoth]

I've always wondered, what's the point of marches, demonstrations and protests? If the 100,000 people just contributed $20 each to hire a few lobbyists or buy over a couple of politicians they would accomplish so much more and it would save everyone the trouble.

that is genius!

 

[Sulkdodds]

That's quite clever, actually.

I don't care about world peace. I care about stability. Prosperity. Freedom.

"I don't care about eradicating racism. I care about equality. Freedom. The end of prejudice."

DOES NOT COMPUTE

 

[Baal]

Well you know, what you just said kind of makes sense, to me at least.

Racism can be people's feelings towards other people but not actually act on it at all. While equality, freedom, and predjudice are all examples of acts against people. At least the reverse of equality and freedom are acts against people, rather.

But I see what you were getting at, I think.

ANYWAYS, no one has commented on the "9/11 - inside job" poster in the first photo yet?

Amazing.

Maybe there is a reason for that, and a good one. Lets find out.

/popcorn

 

[15357]

I've always wondered, what's the point of marches, demonstrations and protests? If the 100,000 people just contributed $20 each to hire a few lobbyists or buy over a couple of politicians they would accomplish so much more and it would save everyone the trouble.

LOL. Awesome.


But then again, you might get 10 years in prison for that. :/

That's quite clever, actually.

"I don't care about eradicating racism. I care about equality. Freedom. The end of prejudice."

DOES NOT COMPUTE

Peace =/= Prosperity

Peace =/= Stability (of society)

Peace =/= Freedom.

 

[CptStern]

Peace =/= Prosperity

Peace =/= Stability (of society)

Peace =/= Freedom.

that makes no sense ..unless you look at it from the military's/military contractor/big business pov ..but then they're the only ones who profit from not having peace

the last 2 statements, you need to clarify/explain better:

"Peace =/= Stability (of society)

Peace =/= Freedom."

 

[15357]

War, if not in the nation itself, has little effect on stability of the nation.

War, does not have anything to do with freedom, unless you're fighting for it.

 

[pomegranate]

call it what u want u arrogant ****, we are not the borg matey, we have a freedom of speech and everyone has a different opinion and that is nmine, so shut the fuk up.

Freedom of speech doesn't excuse talking clearly biggoted nonsense.

Oh and if i was a muslim saying that about Brittish White people, would i be called muslim, i hardly think so.

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

 

[CptStern]

War, if not in the nation itself, has little effect on stability of the nation.

not true; the iraq war has indeed affected the US' economy if not the world's

War, does not have anything to do with freedom, unless you're fighting for it.

I agree with the first part not the second ..mostly because it rarely happens

 

[Sulkdodds]

Obviously peace doesn't necessarily mean everything will be instantly better, but it does mean that you don't have to spend money on fighting (prosperity), you don't have to keep order if things start going wrong and you're not in peril of being bombed etc (stability), and there are less excuses to clamp down on civil liberties and, indeed, less reason to (freedom).

 

[15357]

not true; the iraq war has indeed affected the US' economy if not the world's

Stability =/= economy.

I agree with the first part not the second ..mostly because it rarely happens

WW2, Korean, Vietnam, to name a few.

Obviously peace doesn't necessarily mean everything will be instantly better, but it does mean that you don't have to spend money on fighting (prosperity), you don't have to keep order if things start going wrong and you're not in peril of being bombed etc (stability), and there are less excuses to clamp down on civil liberties and, indeed, less reason to (freedom).

What if you're not the one doing any fighting?

Our 7000+ troops in iraq/afganistan don't do anything much, except act as military police, build stuff, ect. Nothing wrong with that. Doesn't affect anything.

 

[DaMaN]

Stability =/= economy.

Economic stability generated by the erroding of social stability => instability in economy. If you have an unstable group of people or nation, the economy that rests on them will become unstable.

Our 7000+ troops in iraq/afganistan don't do anything much, except act as military police, build stuff, ect. Nothing wrong with that. Doesn't affect anything.

Doesn't affect anything?? WHAT ARE YOU ON??? Tell me, in the plainest language possible, how 7000+ troops CANNOT affect anything?? Tell me how 7000+ troops stationed in an area twice the size of Idaho (but clustered to remain in major metropolises) don't affect anything.

Let's just see WHAT has been "affected" in Iraq:
Past Statistics (2001 est): http://www.middleeastdirectory.com/cs_iraq.htm
Present Statistics: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/iz.html
Compare:
Past // Present
Life Expectancy: 66.95 years // 68.7 years
Birth Rate: 34.64 births/1,000 population // 32.5 births/1,000 population
Death Rate (excluding military conflict): 6.21 deaths/1,000 population // 5.49 deaths/1,000 population
Literacy: 58% // 40.4%

As it can be seen, conditions were either the same or worse than before the occupation.


And what about the fact that more than 75% of Iraqi's want US troops OUT of their country? (65% want them out Immediately): http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15036070/


Oh, and do you think that between 43491 and 48283 reported civilian deaths caused by these soldiers is not affecting ANYTHING???
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

Why don't you try killing ~45000 people, see if it affects something.


---

As for Afghanistan:
Some of the past statistics of Afghanistan are listed here (2000 est): http://salt.claretianpubs.org/stats/2001/10/sh0110.html and here: http://www.photius.com/wfb2000/countries/afghanistan/afghanistan_economy.html
And the present statistics are listed here: http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/af.html
Compare:
Past // Present
Infant Mortality: 147/1,000 live births // 163.07/1,000 live births
Unemployment Rates: 8% // 40%
Life Expectancy: 45.88 years // 42.9 years
Birth Rate: 41.82 births/1,000 population // 47.02 births/1,000 population
Death Rate (excluding military conflict): 18.01 deaths/1,000 population // 20.75 deaths/1,000 population

More facts about CURRENT Afghanistan:
9% of girls outside of Kabul attend school
Mean age of population is 19
Now contains the largest supply of undetonated landmines warheads (from unexploded bombs) in the world
As rated by the UN, Afghanistan now has the worst education system in the world.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...0/DSC00036.jpg

For the pictures: What does Palestine have to do with Britains participations in our modern conflicts with Iraq and Afghanistan?

This is like protesting a Food Chain with signs that defame except one which states, "I like big shoes. yay." Preserve for something that calls upon its context -- don't just use one protest for your own.

 

[15357]

Our troops are currently "baking bread" for the populace. My uncle says that its really boring. 0 combat.

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

I'd like like to drop a line in politics, as you know it is rare if ever that I actually do this. But I just want to say i'm proud of anyone willing to stand up to GW, Cheny, Carl Rove, the ass kissing Tony B. or any other fascist pushover politician. Keep protesting and keep standing up for what you believe is right. It is the people who run the countries not these figureheads.

Obviously peace doesn't necessarily mean everything will be instantly better, but it does mean that you don't have to spend money on fighting (prosperity), you don't have to keep order if things start going wrong and you're not in peril of being bombed etc (stability), and there are less excuses to clamp down on civil liberties and, indeed, less reason to (freedom).

I'm just curious as to what exactly your definition of peace is, i'm not attacking your post or anything i'd just like for you to elaborate.

Our troops are currently "baking bread" for the populace. My uncle says that its really boring. 0 combat.

Are you referring to just your nation's prescence?

 

[15357]

Yes, I was reffering to DaMan's post.

 

[Sulkdodds]

I'm just curious as to what exactly your definition of peace is, i'm not attacking your post or anything i'd just like for you to elaborate.

'Not war'.

Of course, that's being pretty simplistic, because there are economics, wars of ideology, blah blah blah - the absence of a good old guns n' tanks war doesn't necessarily mean the presence of peace.

I suppose I should have really phrased it as "not being at war is often positive for a country".

 

[Tyguy]

at least the protest helped their cause.......wait, all I see is 40,000 people not working or at school.

 

[CptStern]

had more americans taken interest in the lead up to the war they wouldnt be knee deep in hell''s shit hole ..american apathy is appalling ...blowjobs you care about, swindling your citizens into supporting a war that has killed 10's of thousands of innocents doesnt seem to be as high a priority

 

[15357]

swindling your citizens into supporting a war that has killed 10's of thousands of innocents doesnt seem to be as high a priority

Uh, what?

So... you're saying that the american public doesn't support the war? Because the goverment didn't swindle them? :O

 

[Solaris]

at least the protest helped their cause.......wait, all I see is 40,000 people not working or at school.

It showed Labour alot of people are very pissed off. It brought international attention to the anti-war movement.

Protests are a very effective means of getting things done if you have enough support.

 

[CptStern]

Uh, what?

So... you're saying that the american public doesn't support the war? Because the goverment didn't swindle them? :O

no I'm saying extramarital blowjobs seems far more important to americans as a judge of character than lying/deliberately decieving your citizens

 

[kirovman]

I think Clinton would have been fine if he just admitted his affair from the start.

But the impeachment spun it into a charge of lying.

But it's got nothing on what Georgie Porgie did.

 

[CptStern]

georgie porgie lied through his teeth countless times yet it didnt seem to phaze americans ..unless it's lying about sex it really doesnt matter, no matter how high a body count you have

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

georgie porgie lied through his teeth countless times yet it didnt seem to phaze americans ..unless it's lying about sex it really doesnt matter, no matter how high a body count you have

Sex Scandals are way more serious and worthy of press converage than starting 2 wars without just cause, didn't you get the memo? THIS IS 'MERICUH.

 

[CptStern]

yes I agree ..yet the media did report it ..but just barely and even then it was buried under more "compelling" (but false) information. I think americans in general are to blame ..they allowed themselves to be lied to (I'm absolutely positive many knew they were being lied to but blind patriotism made them ignore the tell tale signs) ..till this day there's many americans who think it was right to go into iraq

not for a single second since 2001 have I ever believed the justifications for invading iraq ..not a single one. Yet many americans took it as fact even though there was next to no evidence besides circumstantial evidence that it turns out the either planted or made up on the spot

 

[Tyguy]

It showed Labour alot of people are very pissed off. It brought international attention to the anti-war movement.

Protests are a very effective means of getting things done if you have enough support.

Its not bringing our soldiers home any sooner

 

[15357]

Its not bringing our soldiers home any sooner

Why would you want them back sooner? Return is good, but on a big scale. huge returns of oversees regulars can entail massive unemployment and economic repurcussions!

 

[Tyguy]

Why would you want them back sooner? Return is good, but on a big scale. huge returns of oversees regulars can entail massive unemployment and economic repurcussions!

Ill take unemployment over dead soldiers

 

[15357]

I know, I was just messing around.

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

I hate it when threads end in compromise, argue this to the death I say!!

E-peens hoooo! (politics forum is a spectator sport for me)

 

[gick]

Why would you want them back sooner? Return is good, but on a big scale. huge returns of oversees regulars can entail massive unemployment and economic repurcussions!

Theres only a few thousand at the most, not enough to cause much unemployment. And besides, the British army (generally) takes good care of the troops when they get home.

 

[Aenama]

wow, a massive gathering of crack heads.
very impressive indeed,lol

 

[gick]

wow, a massive gathering of crack heads.
very impressive indeed,lol

Yes, because expressing a different political view from you makes them crackheads.

Unless you have a sensible reply or intelligent remark to make about the subject, then STFU.

 

[Aenama]

"9/11 was an inside job"
"free Palastine"
and most likely since Solaris was there,it was indeed a gathering of crack heads.

 

[CptStern]

"9/11 was an inside job"
"free Palastine"
and most likely since Solaris was there,it was indeed a gathering of crack heads.

it never ceases to amuse me that people who've obviously never lifted a finger in either supporting or deriding public demonstrations of political ideology armchair their way into thinking that they're entitled to an opinion just because they happen to have a pulse/are breathing ..the one saving grace is that their own stupid naivete is usually what causes them to be rediculed to the point that they usually scurry away with their tails between their legs

or in words even Enema (fitting name btw) can understand: "you be dumb, stfu before you're repeatedly pwned" ..if that proves to be too much of a challenge I can spell the words phonetically if you'd like

 

[Danimal]

wow, a massive gathering of crack heads.
very impressive indeed,lol

Weren't you the one going to wear that stupid, poorly designed shirt, "**** you and your imaginary God"?

Very impressive indeed.

 

[Solaris]

"9/11 was an inside job"
"free Palastine"
and most likely since Solaris was there,it was indeed a gathering of crack heads.

F**k off.
I'm not a crackhead, nor do I belive 911 was an inside job.

 

[Aenama]

it never ceases to amuse me that people who've obviously never lifted a finger in either supporting or deriding public demonstrations of political ideology armchair their way into thinking that they're entitled to an opinion just because they happen to have a pulse/are breathing ..the one saving grace is that their own stupid naivete is usually what causes them to be rediculed to the point that they usually scurry away with their tails between their legs

or in words even Enema (fitting name btw) can understand: "you be dumb, stfu before you're repeatedly pwned" ..if that proves to be too much of a challenge I can spell the words phonetically if you'd like

lol,MR."I put to much emphasis on a friggin Gaming forum:upstare:
I have been to a few Demonstrations, .but it just so happens that this "Manchester march" is nothing more then a meeting for people to push their left-wing socialist ideology/agenda.
Also what makes you think I talk like a Nerd 24/7?

 

[CptStern]

I wasnt accusing you of "talking like a nerd" ..in fact I was saying the opposite

left-wing socialist ideology/agenda? :upstare: since when is stopping the wholesale slaughter of innocents based on lies left wing? or socialist for that matter? seems to me that anyone with half a brain, regardless of political affiliation, would be against this illegal war

 

[Aenama]

ok,listen I didn't make myself clear.
I also want US/allied troops to pull out of Iraq,
but people use Demonstrations like that as a mouth piece to push thier agends which a lot of times doesn't have anything to do with getting everybody out of there.


like "9/11 was in inside job"
and most like it wouldn't surprise me since it was organized by a muslim
and everybody was waving around "free palastine" flags that there were jew haters there,which also has nothing to do with stopping this war.