Story?

[§ubscript]

I've heard that the reason Valve didn't put cinematics in the game is because they wanted a seamless experience where you didn't have to break the action of the game (after all, the action doesn't ever force you to stop and watch until the part at the end when you are trapped in the metal transporter in the citadel). However, even though there are no breaks, the load times have effectively forced rest stops in the game. I would like to have seen them put cinematics or clearly present the story better (even though it is still an awesome game). Do you agree with the "no cinematics, no break in action" theory as they have it now or would you like to have seen more story presented up front?

 

[DarkStar]

I absolutely do not want to see cinematics in the HL series. Afterall, the very lack of cinematics is what makes HL unique and special.

That said, more sequences such as "Black Mesa East" would be awesome. Places where the action slows down and the story is elaborated upon are actually my favorite parts of the game.

 

[AntiAnto]

They also didn't want to put cinematics because they didn't want us to see what Gordon really looks like. And I love it the way it is.

 

[kenyo]

I absolutely do not want to see cinematics in the HL series. Afterall, the very lack of cinematics is what makes HL unique and special.

That said, more sequences such as "Black Mesa East" would be awesome. Places where the action slows down and the story is elaborated upon are actually my favorite parts of the game.

i agree completely, i think the way they tell the story is way better with out cinamtics.
i loved the way they brang you into the game. (arrive on a train and see the missery all the citizens are in, and what they have to go threw ever day)

 

[kenyo]

They also didn't want to put cinematics because they didn't want us to see what Gordon really looks like. And I love it the way it is.

every true hl fan know's what gordon looks like allready

 

[Asknoone]

I love it the way it is now, unique and seperate from everything else - the way the story is presented is wonderful, i just wish more developers would be as original as Valve and Marc Laidlaw have been with half life 2.

 

[Ames]

Uhhh....

Think about it this way...

If you were Gordon Freeman, then the story would be presented to you in the same way if it happened in real life.

 

[Lanthanide]

I wish the story was presented better.

You never get a clear explanation as for how, why or when the combine took over Earth, what their plans are or what Breen's plans are (and whether is is actually in control, or merely a puppet of the combine) nor why xen creatures (although only some of them, not any near as many as seen in HL1) are on earth. You finally destroy the citadel (why? Won't that simply destroy city 17? The combine are in another dimension, you're not really going hurt them, merely slow them a little) and get a cryptic speech from the Gman which doesn't make any sense.

I definately do not want cinematics, none whatsoever, Doom 3 was pretty cheap in that reguard, but they could have explained things a bit better.

Eg, it is natural that after you haven't seen someone for 10 years, during a chaotic incident (combine taking over earth) that you'd want to talk to that person and ask how they managed to survive, and in return explain how you managed to survive and give a brief explanation of what you've done and how you're coping. None of that happens in HL2 at all and it is quite unrealistic.

 

[Styloid]

I like it the way it is. 'Hollywood' stories where everything is shown to you are fun to watch but I like a bit of variety. If all stories followed the same style it would get very boring very fast. HL3 will probably have a completely different story style than HL2 which had a completely different story style than HL1. That, to me, will make for a very cool game trilogy.

On a side note, I thought Gordon's reception was pretty well done. It felt like everything was natural (Barney & Kleiner just thought you were sent in from another city on the train) and then they had to rush you off to Black Mesa East as a refugee. Just based on the 'feel' I got, I thought it was the next best solution to developing AI you can have conversations with over a microphone. Games are all about feelings afterall.

 

[Lanthanide]

Yeah, they "thought you were sent from another city on the train". That doesn't explain how you:
1. Survived Xen, and then the apparant portal storms
2. Survived the 7-hour war
3. Ended up in the other city, or how you spent the time after the 7-hour war.

I think it is a huge oversight for none of the characters to wonder about any of this. Unless they had prior knowledge, eg the gman told them or something, but that is never revealed either, so even if that is the case, they still didn't handle it well.

 

[§ubscript]

I wish the story was presented better.

You never get a clear explanation as for how, why or when the combine took over Earth, what their plans are or what Breen's plans are (and whether is is actually in control, or merely a puppet of the combine) nor why xen creatures (although only ...

My thoughts exactly. They didn't necessarily need cinematics exactly, but I ended the game feeling like...Wow, I just saved humanity from...what? Everything was so vague and void of details. I wouldn't have known anything if it weren't for this website.

 

[nvrmor]

save the hand fed stories for the dumbed down games like halo2.

 

[Qhartb]

I really like stories like Half-life 2 where you have to pay attention to detail and remember things to piece together what's happening. Of course, websites like http://fragfiles.org/~hlstory/ help for catching things you missed. Donnie Darko's kind of like that too.

 

[§ubscript]

save the hand fed stories for the dumbed down games like halo2.

No...it's kind of like this: If I'm in a dark room and somebody sticks a broomstick up my ass, I'd like to know who did it, instead of trying to play super sleuth detective. I'm not asking for a "hand fed" story. I'm asking for something that actually gives it to you without any superfluous searching. I shouldn't have to go to a website to understand the details of hl2. I think they should have put more into, instead of making you infer everything for yourself. And I mean EVERYTHING.

 

[DeusExMachina]

Yeah, HL2's story was good, but way too vague. They need more scenes like Black Mesa East to explain everything.

 

[nvrmor]

No...it's kind of like this: If I'm in a dark room and somebody sticks a broomstick up my ass, I'd like to know who did it, instead of trying to play super sleuth detective. I'm not asking for a "hand fed" story. I'm asking for something that actually gives it to you without any superfluous searching. I shouldn't have to go to a website to understand the details of hl2. I think they should have put more into, instead of making you infer everything for yourself. And I mean EVERYTHING.

why go to a website for somebody else's interpretation? is your imagination that bad? are your observation skills that poor that you cant form an idea of what is going on around you? thankfully valve makes games that sell well enough to make the game valve wants. if you cant get it, which obviously you cant, the game is still fun. for those of us who do get it, we wouldnt have it any other way.

 

[§ubscript]

Of course I can form an idea of what's going on. An idea is vague, a story is not. I know for a fact, as everyone on this forum does, that hl2 is a mind-blowing game. What I came up with in my imagination is irrelevant. The story is what it is, and I want to know what the story was as valve saw it. You shouldn't have to actively search for a story, it should show up itself as you play. I should be able to talk about any detail of the story with someone else who has played the game, but unfortunately, I, and many of my friends who have played the game, didn't have a clear grasp of what they were trying to tell in half life 2 after it was finished. Should Steinbeck have cut off the end of East of Eden and left it to your imagination? I'm sure it would be nice, just like the "choose your ending" goosebumps books were when we were little kids. But the point is, the writers made the story, and I want to know how they thought of it when they made a scene a certain way, or a character act a certain way, or an event that played out a certain way. Not how it might have been a hundred different ways if I guess myself.

 

[nvrmor]

the point of the game is you are gordan freeman. you know as much as he does. would the xfiles be a better show if you knew everything about every character and how they fit into the big picture? the story is not what it is. the story is what you make of the experience. that is what valve is trying to accomplish. if you need to discuss with friends the various plot points to get satisfaction from the game, then maybe something like halo2 would suit your purpose better.

 

[§ubscript]

I disagree. Valve didn't make the game and all the characters, places and events thinking: hmm....lets put in some random alien thing, then blow that thing up....they'll figure it out. They had an idea of a world with a real history. Everything makes sense to them. That is how I wanted it to make sense when I played the game. Alas, this is my last post here. Everything is getting too long winded for us to keep saying that we disagree.

 

[^Ben]

A-1 How come nobody in HL2 tells you what's been going on the last few years? Because they assume you already know. That'd be like you having to inform a U.S. soldier fighting in Afghanistan about the events of 9/11. You assume he knows what's going on, because (obviously) it happened in his lifetime, and not only that, he's already fighting to rid the world of the people who planned the attacks. So you'd naturally assume that he was aware of recent history. This is precisely why everyone in City 17 assumes that Gordon (the player) also lived through the Portal Storms, because they changed the world so much that everyone was affected by them. Additionally, people are also beginning to forget that the Portal storms and the Combine conquest ever happened , as something has been placed in their water supply to 'help' them forget their past.

 

[§ubscript]

Gordon did not live through the portal storm. He was in slow time warp, then the gman took him out to send him to city 17. If a US soldier went into slow time warp in the 1800's, then came out to fight in afghanistan, he wouldn't know what was up either. He would need to be filled in. BTW, I just thought that the gman must also have instant transportation to anywhere also, as well as control over time and such. Correct?

 

[Styloid]

Please, please don't bring Steinbeck into this. It's ironic that you would try to do this, though, since Steinbeck was a writer who was actually criticized by some people for his style of storytelling (like Kubrik in the film industry, Frost in poetry, Rousseau in philosophy, Monet in art-- I'm not comparing Valve to Monet, I'm just saying people didn't accept something because they were narrow minded).

People, then and now, just can't accept the fact that there are different ways to tell a story (or express anything at all-- especially in a relatively new medium like computer games); they always want to label the story as either bad/good. This has nothing to do with 'bad' or 'good' stories. It has to do with what style of story the author is using and what effect does that author achieve. There are deeper things to look at than "did they explain everything?" when you criticize any narrative (especially when it's only the second part of a trilogy). Keep an open mind.

 

[§ubscript]

Somebody close this thread please? Mods?

 

[DeusExMachina]

Yeah but people don't know about G-Man...or do they? I agree with you though Subscript, I want to see as how the writer envisioned it. While some stories/movies are best left up to imagination of what is actually going on (David Lynch films come to mind), stories like Half Life 2 need that little more detail to point people in the right direction. I'm not saying they need to leave plot details in little boxes for the player to crack open with a crowbar to find more information, but at least leave better clues and like I said, more talking scenes with characters or hell, let us pick up a newspaper or book and read it ala Deus Ex.

 

[§ubscript]

Precisely. Eraserhead, anyone? Couldn't have said it better myself. So...now this thread needs to close. Everyone made good points, we should leave it off here.

 

[Langolier]

I got the basics of Half-Life 2's story easily enough the first couple times I played it.

I deduced that Civil Protection were Citizen who willingly joined the "Combine".

I knew that Dr. Breen was the "Administrator of Earth", and I decided it was a strange coincidence that he was also the Administrator of Black Mesa. Having played and beaten "Decay" I knew that the Resonance Cascade was deliberate...

I knew that the Combine was a race of aliens from another dimension that attacked other dimensions and "absorbed" their native inhabitants into their war machine.

I knew that Overwatch Soldiers were a good example of this having seen one without his armor on in Nova Prospekt. I speculated then, and speculate now, about whether or not prisoners taken to Nova Prospekt are willingly or un-willingly turned into Soldiers. Are they 'aware', do they have 'free will'? I debate about that still, but my personal conclusion that they must be at least somewhat aware, and not just drones, if Breen saw fit to give them a speech.

I found the newspapers on the wall in Dr. Vance's lab, so I had a general idea about how the world got to this state:

Dr. Keller, Dr. Green, and Dr. Cross supposedly stopped the Resonance Cascade, however somehow a similar disaster occured on a global scale. The Combine then attacked, and in 7-hours the Earth was defeated... somehow Dr. Breen wound up with lots of power as a result of this.

I knew that the Combine was not allowing humans to reproduce... it looked(looks) to me like they are slowly exterminating humanity.

I figured out that one way or another, probably via the Portal Storms, that the Vortigaunts had wound up on Earth, after I (Freeman) killed Nihilanth, and having seen the one in City-17 I wondered whether or not the Combine had something to do with Xen. I still wonder about this now. (recent debates have made me reconsider it)

I learned a little bit about the G-Man too. He appears(ed) to be some sort of 'agent' who 'loans' out fighters... a Mercenary if you will. Only he doesn't actually fight himself. I decided, after thinking about what I knew about him from the first game, and the odd coincidences with Dr. Breen... that he might be a good guy who was originally trying to stop the Resonance Cascade, and stop the Universal Union (Combine) from ever reaching Earth.

I got the impression, right from the start, that Barney and Kliener new something about the G-Man since they were only caught a little off guard by my (Freeman's) appearance. Strange that Barney just happened to be undcover at the Train Station. Later in the game I also decided that Alxy, Vance, and Breen also knew something about him.

Now I will say... that the whole way through the game I kept expecting someone to sit down and brief me on my actual mission, but whenever I thought that was going to happen the Combine attacked again and I had to get my ass the hell out of there. My 'feel' for the game, the first time through, was one of a fugitive. This opressive and powerful force was after me and I needed to find someplace that wasn't being shot at.

In the end, I figured out that my mission had been to disrupt the Combine's grip on City-17... one way or another. I totally didn't expect the end when it came, but it did answer my only lingering question.

Now I did read the ever popular website about HL2's storyline, and a long time before that I read a similar one about storyline in the first game which I realized later I didn't even need since I had missed a few critical pieces of Info in the Opposing Force instruction's booklet. There was a note in there by Adrian that the Marines already knew they were going to Black Mesa long before it happened... he saw, and I saw, the G-Man at the base. So I knew long before HL2 came out that the Resonance Cascade wasn't an accident...

Anyway, the site on Fragfiles about the HL2 storyline has really only served to plant the "Combine on Xen" theory in my head, as well as flesh out how exactly the Combine arrived on Earth (or a general idea) and how they defeated humanity so easily. Even then, did that really answer much? I already had a good idea about how Earth went to shit by seeing those newspaper clippings in Black Meas East. The only thing that his site really answered, now that I think about it, was how many Citadels there might be. Remember, the idea that Citadels appeared in each city and let loose the Combine Army on Earth was not included in the game. Anywhere. However I do think it makes sense and I tend to assume it did happen that way.

So... short answer: No, I think the story is told fine.

Though I also don't think there is reason to attack someone for disagreeing. (the OP)

 

[Jintor]

Erach, erach! I didn't read the first post when i voted, and now i feel bad for voting for the cinamatics option.

I didn't want cinamatics. I did, however, want to be doing something more spectacular... well... uh... it didn't really feel like i was doing anything major until Nova Prospekt. Meh. The story was told fine, really... i just wish Valve would leave more little eeggs of data around. Like, more newspapers on clipboards. That sorta thing.

 

[Unimita]

I absolutely do not want to see cinematics in the HL series. Afterall, the very lack of cinematics is what makes HL unique and special.

That said, more sequences such as "Black Mesa East" would be awesome. Places where the action slows down and the story is elaborated upon are actually my favorite parts of the game.

I totally agree but if they put to many places like Black Mesa East in then they would loose their special feel. Keeping it in moderation like it is is great. It almost felt like an interactive cut scene anyway, which means the best of both.

 

[Lanthanide]

A-1 How come nobody in HL2 tells you what's been going on the last few years?...

Well yes, obviously, you wouldn't need to be -told- what happened. You would however, be asked what happened to you by your friends. And likewise, if you actually cared about the other people and had some social skills, would you ask about them.

Ex: It is 1937, you are a jew in Nazi Germany. You have several close friends whom you worked with every day for 1 year. Suddenly, due to the anti-semetic laws of the Nazi party, you are a split from your friends. You undergo terrible tribulations during the 2nd world war, but finally managed to escape to Poland after a long series of very dangerous and scary events. 10 years later in 1947, you manage to find your way back to Germany, and amazingly discover all of your old friends, albeit in somewhat different circumstances to how you first met and got to know them.

Now, if this were Valve's world, you would simply carry on like it was 1937 and nothing had really happened for the last 10 years.

Of course, in real-life, this would NOT happen, all of you (barring emotional/psycological scars) would discuss how you had survived the last 10 years and all of the problems and fears you faced during that time.


I don't seriously understand how ANYONE can believe that this particular portrayal by Valve of Eli, Kliener and Barney is realistic at all.

If they simply talked about what had happened to each of those people (Barney: "During the seven hour war, while we were storming the first combine citadel..." or Eli: "You're probably wondering what happend to my leg, right? While I was escaping through the back tunnels of Black Mesa, after having picked Alyx up from the crache, a bullsquid jumped out of...") then we would have a MUCH fuller background of the world, what the hell is going on right now, and it wouldn't have been "spoon-fed" (as everyone likes to mention) in the slightest. It simply would have been a logical, sensible and realistic conservation that any long-separated people under extreme conditions would have had.

Now, having read my arguments above, can anyone seriously say they think Valve's portrayal was realistic?

And don't give me "they didn't have time" cop-out. They didn't HAVE to teleport you to BME ASAP. They could have sat around for an hour or so, easily, discussing the past 10 years.

Or, if you don't buy that: during BME, while you were going down to play with Dog, and during the play with Dog, Alyx could have been telling you about her childhood and teenage years growing up under the combine, or the stories that Eli and Kliener told about BME and the portal storm. But no, nothing like that at all.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

i think Valve did what they could storyline-wise considering that there is another installment coming.
i mean i didn't have to play the game to tell u there would be a cliff-hanger ending once Valve had confirmed there would be a HL3.

my thoughts about sequels are that whether they are games or movies, the expectations of people are generally way too high...and basically most of the time that leads to disappointment.

in HL2's case the majority seem to like it, which is rare :thumbs:

 

[§ubscript]

Lanthanide makes an excellent point. This is what should have happened to the story. It would have made sense the way Lanthanide describes it. I think this is how most people who were in the dark with the story the first time would have wanted it. We aren't saying it needs to be spoon fed, we aren't saying to dumb it down, we are simply asking for reasonable, rational explanations of everything performed in ways like Lanthanide says.

 

[subtlesnake]

Well yes, obviously, you wouldn't need to be -told- what happened. You would however, be asked what happened to you by your friends. And likewise, if you actually cared about the other people and had some social skills, would you ask about them.

Ex: It is 1937, you are a jew in Nazi Germany. You have several close friends whom you worked with every day for 1 year. Suddenly, due to the anti-semetic laws of the Nazi party, you are a split from your friends. You undergo terrible tribulations during the 2nd world war, but finally managed to escape to Poland after a long series of very dangerous and scary events. 10 years later in 1947, you manage to find your way back to Germany, and amazingly discover all of your old friends, albeit in somewhat different circumstances to how you first met and got to know them.

Now, if this were Valve's world, you would simply carry on like it was 1937 and nothing had really happened for the last 10 years.

Of course, in real-life, this would NOT happen, all of you (barring emotional/psycological scars) would discuss how you had survived the last 10 years and all of the problems and fears you faced during that time.


I don't seriously understand how ANYONE can believe that this particular portrayal by Valve of Eli, Kliener and Barney is realistic at all.

But it really depends on their relationship with Gordon, on what they've been told by the G-Man. Barney speaks of having little notice, so its clear they've had some notice, else why would Barney be there at that exact moment and place to greet Gordon?

Imagine you work with someone at a top secret government organisation who over a period of time becomes a trusted colleague. Now, one day he disappears mysteriously. You're told not to talk about it, and 10 years pass. Suddenly you receive a phone call from a 'suit'. He's coming back, and you're told not to question him.

When he arrived would you ask him what he'd been doing all this time? Would you feel the need to tell him what you'd been doing all this time? Especially when he said nothing at all to you?

Sharing of information is generally mutual. Gordon volunteers nothing.

 

[Langolier]

I will say that I wish they had included Eli's "Briefing" about what happened after Black Mesa.

It's hard to make Gordon interract. They could put choosable lines in their, but then they'd have a limitted amount and would be defining Gordon's character and personality.

I really think that briefing would have been enough. I think the idea of having Eli explain his leg would have worked wonderfully.

 

[clarky003]

is being in the dark so bad..? its like the middle of a good movie, it doesnt all come together till the very end, I like the suspense and mystery it creates..

be patient and wait for HL3,, *slaps all of you who suggested cinematic cut scenes*

 

[ríomhaire]

I don't realy like cut-scenes. Ecspecially where you are standing there with a fully loaded shotgun, 5 feet away from you nemesis and he is saying his evil plan and you have to just stand there and give him enough time to let him get into his giant robot with a super weapon that can blow up up a building but you cAN TAKE £ ") SHOTS IN THE HEAD WITH IT AND THEN YOU BLOW IT INTO !))))))))) PIECES BUT HE STILL SURVIVES AND EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE A FULL ARSENAL UP YOUR ASS YOU ARE FORCED TO FIGHT HIM HAND TO ****ING HAND AND THEN THERE IS A COUNTDOWN TIMER AND THE BASS IS ABOUT TO EXPLODE AND YOU MAKE IT OUT IN TIME AND THE GIRL YOU@RE WITH AND YOU HAVE THE MOST WOODEN CONVRERSATION EVER (EXEPT FOR THOSE CRAP ONES IN RESIDENT EVIL ! WITH ALL THE ZOMBIES WHO DECIDE TO DRESS THE SAME AND ! OPENS A DOOR BUT ALL THE OTHERS IN THE GAME FORGOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Wo, were was I for the last 2 minutes?

 

[Laivasse]

....whoa, I think you killed them all.


:sniper: :afro: (<--he is cutscenes)

 

[Mountain Man]

I like that Laidlaw wasn't afraid to create a story that forces us to think.

 

[Anoma|ous]

Someone said Gordon is mute. hehe. Anyway, no one tells no body in Half-Life 2 cause they think you already know.

 

[§ubscript]

Wow. Everything that could have been said has already been said, for both sides. The last few posts have been repeats of earlier ones. Pointless. They have already been posted, argued and refuted. We don't need repeats. In fact, I would invite any mod who sees this to close it. It is done with. Was done with.