Strange thing about Iraq

[CptStern]

Stern.. we were using exaples of animal nature as part of the discussion. I didnt say that every animal on the planet ate their young. Just the same for homosexuality, not every animal acts this way.

So.. is the neighbours puppy offspring of your dog? If not your post has no argument here.

he could be

actually my point was that every situation is different ...I just went the very round about route to get there, and in retrospect it makes little sense


but let's get back on track and talk about gay marriage in a thread about Iraq :E

btw seperate but equal = discriminatory

 

[Phraxtion]

yes but people once thought the world was flat and the sun was the center of the universe: this was supported by the catholic church who would condemn anyone with heresy who said otherwise ...if I recall correctly, Leonardo Da Vinci was imprisoned for proving that the sun wasnt the center of the universe

I was just saying that people could find the notion of gay marriage just as laughable as she does parts of the bible.

Im sorry things were that way.. but im not condemning gays at all. I dont feel we should throw them in a prison. I simply disagree with that choice of lifesyle as people do mine. If gays wish to have a union thats fine, its not place to say they cant. But why does it have to be called a marriage? It isnt a marriage.

 

[CptStern]

I was just saying that people could find the notion of gay marriage just as laughable as she does parts of the bible.

Im sorry things were that way.. but im not condemning gays at all. I dont feel we should throw them in a prison. I simply disagree with that choice of lifesyle as people do mine. If gays wish to have a union thats fine, its not place to say they cant. But why does it have to be called a marriage? It isnt a marriage.

because they have the right to enjoy the same freedoms you take for granted. I'm married and I hope gays are allowed the same rights as I have (although I'm canadian so it's already legal here)

 

[Phraxtion]

he could be

actually my point was that every situation is different ...I just went the very round about route to get there, and in retrospect it makes little sense


but let's get back on track and talk about gay marriage in a thread about Iraq :E

btw seperate but equal = discriminatory

lol.. Yea, ive been waiting for someone to point out we were getting a little off topic.

 

[CptStern]

lol.. Yea, ive been waiting for someone to point out we were getting a little off topic.

it's all good, we've beaten the iraq thing to death, plus it tends to attract some rather angry pro-war supporters which personally I'm sick to death of

 

[Phraxtion]

because they have the right to enjoy the same freedoms you take for granted. I'm married and I hope gays are allowed the same rights as I have (although I'm canadian so it's already legal here)

Exactly, I dont disagree with you at all. Thats you beauty of America. But where did the "you take for granted" part come from?
I am married as well and I think they should be given the same rights, benefits etc. I never argued this.

Part of my argument has been the use of the word marriage, why is it so hard for everyone to let religious believers have that?

 

[Korgoth]

Ok so gays aren't allowed to use the word marriage because by your reasoning they are either:
A-sinners
B-not of your religion
Well what about a gay couple that practices christianity? Your just as much a sinner as they are, you play violent video games, and you obviously think war is justified (would jesus really kill anyone for his country???)
Note: I say this because you are a bush supporter correct.

So if your a sinner and your allowed marriage why can't a gay couple be allowed marriage as well? Surely not becuase they sin, if that was the case no human on this planet would be allowed to marry, we all sin.

 

[CptStern]

Exactly, I dont disagree with you at all. Thats you beauty of America. But where did the "you take for granted" part come from?
I am married as well and I think they should be given the same rights, benefits etc. I never argued this.

the "taken for granted" statement was meant to convey that these are rights heterosexuals dont think twice about

Part of my argument has been the use of the word marriage, why is it so hard for everyone to let religious believers have that?

because the word marriage is not exclusive to religion


seperate but equal is still discrimination

 

[Phraxtion]

Ok so gays aren't allowed to use the word marriage because by your reasoning they are either:
A-sinners
B-not of your religion
Well what about a gay couple that practices christianity? Your just as much a sinner as they are, you play violent video games, and you obviously think war is justified (would jesus really kill anyone for his country???)
Note: I say this because you are a bush supporter correct.

So if your a sinner and your allowed marriage why can't a gay couple be allowed marriage as well? Surely not becuase they sin, if that was the case no human on this planet would be allowed to marry, we all sin.

I dont believe that a gay man or gay women that practices christianity is truely christian. How could they be? Im not saying they are bad people. But how can they claim to be part of a religion that completely opposes such an act? And anyone that does will twist and distort the word of god.

I will agree with you completely, I sin everyday. Just because I play violent video games dosent me I would react them out in real life and I do not idolize them an anyway. Like ive said im not perfect, but I do have firm beliefs. The fact that a gay couple would have union and be able to recieve the same benefits is not something im against, ive said this multiple times. The fact is marriage is a union between a man a woman. Id say considering my beliefs im pretty open minded. You on the other hand dont think so and have said such before.

One of the great things about christianity is you can be saved. But to call yourself a chrstian and knowingly commit such acts contiuously in front of god is something I feel is wrong.

I dont believe God would kneel down and let any force destroy his heaven. You called yourself a christian, would you stand aside if someone tried to harm your family?

 

[Phraxtion]

the "taken for granted" statement was meant to convey that these are rights heterosexuals dont think twice about

I dont take marriage for granted. Its something my wife and I cheerish.



because the word marriage is not exclusive to religion


Where did it originate?


seperate but equal is still discrimination

Considering your quote and some of you posts I would have to call you a hypocrite.

I dont take marriage for granted. Its something my wife and I both cheerish.

Where did you word marriage originate?

lol sorry for the edits I dont know exactly how some of the posting features work.

 

[CptStern]

Considering your quote and some of you posts I would have to call you a hypocrite.

I dont take marriage for granted. Its something my wife and I both cheerish.

Where did you word marriage originate?

please explain

Im not saying they are bad people. But how can they claim to be part of a religion that completely opposes such an act? And anyone that does will twist and distort the word of god.

the United Church of canada marries homosexuals ..are you saying they dont believe in the word of god?

 

[Phraxtion]

please explain




the United Church of canada marries homosexuals ..are you saying they dont believe in the word of god?

They sure dont practice it.

Other than my mispelling "Where did the word marriage originate". Which part would you like me to explain?

 

[CptStern]

They sure dont practice it.

they dont practice what you (who's to say your interpretation is the right one?) interpret as the word of god, but I'm sure I'd get a lot of angry stares if I went to the united church and said: "you're not practicing the word of god"

Other than my mispelling "Where did the word marriage originate". Which part would you like me to explain?

I'm not being facetious, I really dont know what you're talking about

 

[Korgoth]

I dont believe that a gay man or gay women that practices christianity is truely christian. How could they be? Im not saying they are bad people. But how can they claim to be part of a religion that completely opposes such an act? And anyone that does will twist and distort the word of god.

I will agree with you completely, I sin everyday. Just because I play violent video games dosent me I would react them out in real life and I do not idolize them an anyway. Like ive said im not perfect, but I do have firm beliefs. The fact that a gay couple would have union and be able to recieve the same benefits is not something im against, ive said this multiple times. The fact is marriage is a union between a man a woman. Id say considering my beliefs im pretty open minded. You on the other hand dont think so and have said such before.

One of the great things about christianity is you can be saved. But to call yourself a chrstian and knowingly commit such acts contiuously in front of god is something I feel is wrong.

I dont believe God would kneel down and let any force destroy his heaven. You called yourself a christian, would you stand aside if someone tried to harm your family?

Have you ever broken one of the ten commandments? Lie3d/cheated/stole etc. etc.? Then does that mean your not a true christian? I had a gay step-uncle who went to church every sunday and was no different from any other christian i've ever known other than he was gay. Being a christian, and being a sinner makes you hypocritical. That is unless you repent and stop sinning, but you've just said you sin everyday so are you a true christian? Why should you get the better deal then? Whats the difference between one sin and another? Gay people are just the same.

 

[Champ]

Opposing gay marriage is in my opinion, foolish and narrowminded. Does the Bible specifically say "Two men can't marry each other" or something along the lines of that?

 

[CptStern]

btw here are some of the more obscure laws of the bible: do you follow them to the letter?

The eating of fat is prohibited forever. (Lev 3:17)

You cannot round the corners of your beard or the hair on your temples. (Lev 19:27)

Witches should be killed. (Ex 22:18)

The congregation was to be a bastard free zone. The Bible was so dead set against bastards that their children, even to the tenth generation, could not enter the assembly of the Lord. (Duet 23:2)

Handicapped people could not approach God. Their presence would profane his sanctuary. (Lev 21:16-23)

Entrance into the assembly of the Lord was granted only to those with complete testicles. (Duet 23:1)

Anyone working on the Sabbath is to be killed. (Ex 35:2)

Menstruating women and everything they touch are unclean. The only cure for this uncleanness was for the priest to kill a couple of pigeons. (Lev 15:19-30)

If a couple has sex during the woman's period, the two are to be cut off from their people. (Lev 20:18)

Women were officially second class citizens. They were considered possessions that were owned, (Prov 12:4) and were officially subordinate (1 Cor 14:33,34).

Homosexual men were to be executed. (Lev 20:13) No mention is made of homosexual women.

If a woman grabs a man's privates during a fight, her hand is to be cut off. (Duet 25:11,12)

False prophets are to be killed by their own parents. (Zech 13:3)
Stubborn children were to be stoned, and the stoning was to be instigated by their parents. (Duet 21:18-21)

 

[Phraxtion]

they dont practice what you (who's to say your interpretation is the right one?) interpret as the word of god, but I'm sure I'd get a lot of angry stares if I went to the united church and said: "you're not practicing the word of god"



I'm not being facetious, I really dont know what you're talking about

How can there be a misinterpretation, it says right there in the bible... it is a sin and more so an abomination. If you follow the word in the bible you know this. The reasons a chrurch would go beyond it leaves me to believe they are not true christians.

 

[CptStern]

How can there be a misinterpretation, it says right there in the bible... it is a sin and more so an abomination. If you follow the word in the bible you know this. The reasons a chrurch would go beyond it leaves me to believe they are not true christians.

Exodus 35:2 "Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh day shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of rest to Yahweh. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death.

so I guess you dont work on sundays for fear of being stoned to death?

 

[^Ben]

So i suppose you treat you're wife like a possesion then?

The bible was written by man.

 

[Phraxtion]

Have you ever broken one of the ten commandments? Lie3d/cheated/stole etc. etc.? Then does that mean your not a true christian? I had a gay step-uncle who went to church every sunday and was no different from any other christian i've ever known other than he was gay. Being a christian, and being a sinner makes you hypocritical. That is unless you repent and stop sinning, but you've just said you sin everyday so are you a true christian? Why should you get the better deal then? Whats the difference between one sin and another? Gay people are just the same.

Im just curious, but what does your uncle believe that god thinks of his situation?

There are definitly extremes as far sin goes. This is obvious in the bible. All can be forgiven. My sins are not near as extreme as homosexuality goes. So I must know.. if I were to rape someone would you say its ok for me to call myself a true christian and preach the word?

 

[Phraxtion]

Exodus 35:2 "Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh day shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of rest to Yahweh. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death.

so I guess you dont work on sundays for fear of being stoned to death?

I follow the new testament as most christians do. As for working on Sundays, I am against it but have done so in the past.

 

[Phraxtion]

So i suppose you treat you're wife like a possesion then?

The bible was written by man.

"The bible was written by man" through god and from the teachings of Jesus.

Posts like this I will have to pass on because they bring no real argument.

 

[^Ben]

Bleh..............

 

[Korgoth]

I'm not sure, emphasis on had, my dad and step momhave since devorced... So I haven't even seen them in around 5 or 6 years...
How could you compare rape to homosexuality though? When you rape someone you do so against their will, not only do you hurt them physically but mentally. And it does a lot of damage to the person, you could say you pretty much murdered who that person was when you raped them. Homosexuality is something two parties do together, the same as straight sex, gay sex is mutual, unless of course its rape... If you raped someone knowing full well what you were doing there is no way I would consider you a christian or even someone who lives by christian values. When you rape you do harm to someone, and take something from them they never wanted you to have.
Understand where I am coming from though, it is my belief that marriage is a right anyone should be allowed to have. It doesn't really matter to me if you call it marriage or civil union, but what does it really matter? You don't complain when an islamic couple gets married and uses the term marriage even though they don't share in your beliefs do you?

 

[CptStern]

I follow the new testament as most christians do. As for working on Sundays, I am against it but have done so in the past.

then you should be put to death, according to the bible ...you cant pick and choose what parts of the bible you agree with ...it's either all or nothing

btw you say that most christians follow the new testament does that mean you completely discount the old testament?

 

[Phraxtion]

I'm not sure, emphasis on had, my dad has since devorced his sister... So I haven't even seen them in around 5 or 6 years...
How could you compare rape to homosexuality though? When you rape someone you do so against their will, not only do you hurt them physically but mentally. And it does a lot of damage to the person, you could say you pretty much murdered who that person was when you raped them. Homosexuality is something two parties do together, the same as straight sex, gay sex is mutual, unless of course its rape... If you raped someone knowing full well what you were doing there is no way I would consider you a christian or even someone who lives by christian values. When you rape you do harm to someone, and take something from them they never wanted you to have.
Understand where I am coming from though, it is my belief that marriage is a right anyone should be allowed to have. It doesn't really matter to me if you call it marriage or civil union, but what does it really matter? You don't complain when an islamic couple gets married and uses the term marriage even though they don't share in your beliefs do you?

Whether you rape or have gay sex it goes against gods will. And for someone to claim to be of that faith and do such things is going directly against what they say they live by.

I believe they should have those same "rights". But for many religious people marriage and what it stands for is very sacred.

I dosent bother me if its a union between a man and woman, no matter what nationalitly you are.

 

[moz4rt]

ha! this is great.

christianity began after jesus came to earth. you guys are confusing judaism and christianity. the stuff you quote from the old testament are laws for jews, not christians.

i'll be back to post more later, i have to go to class now.

 

[Phraxtion]

then you should be put to death, according to the bible ...you cant pick and choose what parts of the bible you agree with ...it's either all or nothing

btw you say that most christians follow the new testament does that mean you completely discount the old testament?

Stern.. please dont make me out to be a fanatic. Im not coming into this thread shouting fire and brimstone. My argument was a word.. a special word for some people. I never said I was perfect, and never said I followed the bible to a t.

No I dont completely discount the old testament.

 

[Phraxtion]

Opposing gay marriage is in my opinion, foolish and narrowminded. Does the Bible specifically say "Two men can't marry each other" or something along the lines of that?

LOL I missed this post and im glad I did.

 

[CptStern]

Stern.. please dont make me out to be a fanatic. Im not coming into this thread shouting fire and brimstone. My argument was a word.. a special word for some people. I never said I was perfect, and never said I followed the bible to a t.

Sorry if you've construed it that way but I'm not trying to make you to be a fanatic ...I'm trying to prove a point. I'm not questioning your faith. I'm questioning the logic behind the notion that gays are sinners

your argument is that the word marriage is exclusive to religion: I disagree ....if I go to city hall to be "married" it's called marriage not civil union

No I dont completely discount the old testament.

isnt the passage about homosexuals from the old testament?

I just find it strange that you can accept one law (gay = sin) yet cant accept another (just as illogical: work on sundays = death)

 

[blahblahblah]

I just find it strange that you can accept one law (gay = sin) yet cant accept another (just as illogical: work on sundays = death)

http://www.wcg.org/lit/law/sabbath/sabbath.htm

[Edit]: How does this relate to Iraq? :imu:

 

[CptStern]

http://www.wcg.org/lit/law/sabbath/sabbath.htm

[Edit]: How does this relate to Iraq? :imu:

from your article:

"Nevertheless, most Christians today do not observe the seventh-day Sabbath—they say it is obsolete"

I'm hoping one day it'll say:

Nevertheless, most Christians today do not believe homosexuals are sinners —they say this law is obsolete

it seems to me that they "re-interpret" as they see fit


this doesnt relate to iraq, somehow we drifted back to religion

edit: btw blahblahblah, I could easily pick out another half dozen obscure laws from the bible that in hindsight are either plain wrong or just silly

 

[blahblahblah]

from your article:

"Nevertheless, most Christians today do not observe the seventh-day Sabbath—they say it is obsolete"

I'm hoping one day it'll say:

Nevertheless, most Christians today do not believe homosexuals are sinners —they say this law is obsolete

it seems to me that they "re-interpret" as they see fit


this doesnt relate to iraq, somehow we drifted back to religion

Think of the old testament as a set of temporary laws (that is how they were written). The New Testament was created to change/re-write those laws because of Jesus's teaching. I can't go much more indepth than that right now. You will have to do some research on your own.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

from your article:

"Nevertheless, most Christians today do not observe the seventh-day Sabbath—they say it is obsolete"

I'm hoping one day it'll say:

Nevertheless, most Christians today do not believe homosexuals are sinners —they say this law is obsolete

it seems to me that they "re-interpret" as they see fit

Bam! That's the point right there. Forcing gays not to marry is identical to forcing everyone to never work Sundays.

Discounting the anti-gay part of the bible is a belief.

If you try to make laws forcing people to stop having that belief, don't you see something wrong with that?

That's more-or less tantamount to outlawing Hanukah or forcibly giving the Amish a stereo system.

There are so many different interpretations of the bible. Do you honestly think you have the right to force others to follow yours?

 

[blahblahblah]

Bam! That's the point right there. Forcing gays not to marry is identical to forcing everyone to never work Sundays.

Discounting the anti-gay part of the bible is a belief.

If you try to make laws forcing people to stop having that belief, don't you see something wrong with that?

That's more-or less tantamount to outlawing Hanukah or forcibly giving the Amish a stereo system.

There are so many different interpretations of the bible. Do you honestly think you have the right to force others to follow yours?

Are you sure your are not trying to insult me? You sure fooled me. :|

I'm done with this thread if you act like this.

 

[CptStern]

heheh I LoL at this:

"or forcibly giving the Amish a stereo system. "

my co-workers asked what was so funny but I couldnt answer:

"dood I was on this, like, roXXoR Half-life site and this dood, Mechagodzilla, made a LoL comment!"



heheheh ok carry on


EDIT: blahblahblah, are we reading the same reply? I dont see any sarcasm or insult in Mechagodzilla's reply ...maybe you're interpreting it differently ...heheh sorry, jk! seriously no one here is mocking the other person, we're just trying to get to the bottom of this, no need to leave

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Are you sure your are not trying to insult me? You sure fooled me. :|

Wha? Where's the insult in there?

I said that people should not force their belief system onto others. The questions weren't even directed towards you. They were towards Phraxation.

I'm done with this thread if you act like this.

Seriously, don't go. You're one of the very few rational people around these parts.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

christianity began after jesus came to earth. you guys are confusing judaism and christianity. the stuff you quote from the old testament are laws for jews, not christians.

Now I'm confused.
If it isn't even a christian belief, then why are so many christians trying to make it law?
And why have I never seen any Jewish support for the amendment?

Edit: oops, sorry 'bout the double post. I hit quote instead of edit.

 

[moz4rt]

Now I'm confused.
If it isn't even a christian belief, then why are so many christians trying to make it law?
And why have I never seen any Jewish support for the amendment?

Edit: oops, sorry 'bout the double post. I hit quote instead of edit.

come on man! you know (at least i hope so) that christianity is based on some jewish beliefs. the guy before me already explained that when jesus came, many of the laws changed (i.e. animal sacrifice).

answere to 2nd question: because you haven't looked

 

[blahblahblah]

Now I'm confused.
If it isn't even a christian belief, then why are so many christians trying to make it law?
And why have I never seen any Jewish support for the amendment?

Edit: oops, sorry 'bout the double post. I hit quote instead of edit.

It is a Christian belief.

The new testament supersedes the old testament though. Think of the new testament as additional content and revisions for the Christian Church. The old testament was designed to give laws and guidance until the first coming of Jesus, then Jesus was to give additional rules/revisions on how to live (which he did).

PS - The Jewish population (in the US) approximately makes up 2% of the US population.