Suck my balls you stupid creationists!

[K e r b e r o s]

You still have to prove they exist in the first place... which you cant.

The difficulty in this task is that, a. I know theres something out there and believe in it, and b. I can't make someone believe nor would I want to. Thats not right, fair, and thank [whoever you believe in or not] that I don't adhere to such policy.

As for saying that I cannot prove it exists, you're right in believing there is some difficulty. Gods don't bow to the words of men, it is men who bow to the words of Gods.

Devoid yourself of the cryptics and in short the message is, "I can't command a God to show himself". Maybe he will one day -- but I'm not going to push this around in your schoolyard. It's for me, maybe for you -- but thats your choice.

Evolution is fact.

No, the scientific community largely believes its a plausible law but there's certainly more momentum to be had reguarding the topic. Darwin addressed that certain species over time would eventually weed out weaker genetic constructs of themselves to Predators, Natural Changes in the environment, etc. leaving the strong to survive. Thus, leaving the strong to also reproduce to eventually create a generation of better equipped creatures that can survive where previously, another member of its genetic family could not.

Of course, this is entirely feasible, but the true example remains void: If this theory is a law, than how come genetically disfigured or mentally handicapped human beings continue to be born?

http://mainehuntingtoday.com/bbb/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/five legged deer2.jpg

Is this evolution or a genetic mistake? Can the mentally handicapped be categorized in the same way? Or, can we just call them mutations, despite them being a seperate branch from evolution in a sort of way?

Or, is this merely a matter of social semantics? Feasibly, a five legged deer can be weeded out, but according to natural law this creature was genetically not held back or ruined because of its fifth leg, but because man invented the 30-06. Inventions alone can alter, theoritically, the progress or the evidence of evolution is my guess.

And since evolution takes time, it remains to be seen where humans have evolved, or if the explanation of a five legged deer is evolution or a genetic oops. Where has it been proven that humans have evolved, at least from 1900 onward?

A theory must be supported by evidence or it isnt a theory.

Exactly. So, why exactly do they still reguard Darwins idea, a "theory?" Certainly because it lacks enough proof to be completely credible, because most scientists still don't have enough concrete evidence; this pertains to the element of where it can be physically documented that an animal is in the progress of genetic change or mutation.

Your answer isnt clear at all...

I think its clear to you, but you're not sure of how to take it. Is it a threat to my own knowledge? Is it this? Is it that?

Let's be rational here -- if we knew everything already it would not be nessecary for our species, or any species for that matter, to even have a brain. Therefore, the point being is that nobody knows a God exists or what all is out there, hence why we cannot just abandon everything at the drop of a scientific or yes, biblical hat.

Half of science is patience, not alarmist bedwetting because the religious get this cool idea to incorperate science with there thoughts. It's indeed not a practise thats being forced onto you.

Science isnt a closed minded or bigoted

It can be purposely made so -- just like the bible. Yet, thats avoiding the issue completely.

People are close minded and bigoted. People are stupid. People are also smart. So, when close minded and bigoted people use the bible or science for that matter, to forward the progress of intellectual intolerance and hatred, it can readily be said and pointed out that reguardless of what that behavior is trying to accomplish, its still a damn stupid and incompetent way to do that.

Paragraph made short -- don't be intolerant of other peoples thoughts, or disreguard them because they don't match your perception of the world. "Your", meaning indirectly, anyone who shares the thought I mentioned, not strictly, you.

 

[Azner]

Why not just take the entire bible as a fricken story? Where it was written by a bunch of drunken men?

Also if god could do everything and anything, why take 7 million years? Or 7 days? Couldn't he do it instantly?

So that you guys can right now awe at evolution

 

[PvtRyan]

/facepalm

 

[Azner]

/cockslap

 

[[Matt]]

The difficulty in this task is that, a. I know theres something out there and believe in it, and b. I can't make someone believe nor would I want to. Thats not right, fair, and thank [whoever you believe in or not] that I don't adhere to such policy.

As for saying that I cannot prove it exists, you're right in believing there is some difficulty. Gods don't bow to the words of men, it is men who bow to the words of Gods.

Devoid yourself of the cryptics and in short the message is, "I can't command a God to show himself". Maybe he will one day -- but I'm not going to push this around in your schoolyard. It's for me, maybe for you -- but thats your choice.

Just because god exists in your mind doesnt mean god exists at all.

No, the scientific community largely believes its a plausible law but there's certainly more momentum to be had reguarding the topic. Darwin addressed that certain species over time would eventually weed out weaker genetic constructs of themselves to Predators, Natural Changes in the environment, etc. leaving the strong to survive. Thus, leaving the strong to also reproduce to eventually create a generation of better equipped creatures that can survive where previously, another member of its genetic family could not.

Of course, this is entirely feasible, but the true example remains void: If this theory is a law, than how come genetically disfigured or mentally handicapped human beings continue to be born?

http://mainehuntingtoday.com/bbb/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/five legged deer2.jpg

Is this evolution or a genetic mistake? Can the mentally handicapped be categorized in the same way? Or, can we just call them mutations, despite them being a seperate branch from evolution in a sort of way?

Or, is this merely a matter of social semantics? Feasibly, a five legged deer can be weeded out, but according to natural law this creature was genetically not held back or ruined because of its fifth leg, but because man invented the 30-06. Inventions alone can alter, theoritically, the progress or the evidence of evolution is my guess.

And since evolution takes time, it remains to be seen where humans have evolved, or if the explanation of a five legged deer is evolution or a genetic oops. Where has it been proven that humans have evolved, at least from 1900 onward?

Evolution IS fact simply because speciation has been observed hundreds of times in the wild. For reference...

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6896753.stm

Its only the Theory of evolution that you can question and when the theory comes under scrutiny it usually leads to the conclusion that we are evolved mammals and any new evidence only leads to us refining the theory to become an even better model for the origins of species. More than 99.9% of the evidence for evolution was dicovered AFTER darwins death. Check out how complex the tree of life is these days...

http://www.tolweb.org/tree/

As for your statements on the 5 legged deer and the handicapped you have simply proved to me you have NO understanding of the mechanisms behind evolution. If you want to read up on the issue before we continue this discussion that simply read this link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation

Harmful mutations

Changes in DNA caused by mutation can cause errors in protein sequence, creating partially or completely non-functional proteins. To function correctly, each cell depends on thousands of proteins to function in the right places at the right times. When a mutation alters a protein that plays a critical role in the body, a medical condition can result. A condition caused by mutations in one or more genes is called a genetic disorder. However, only a small percentage of mutations cause genetic disorders; most have no impact on health. For example, some mutations alter a gene's DNA base sequence but don?t change the function of the protein made by the gene.

If a mutation is present in a germ cell, it can give rise to offspring that carries the mutation in all of its cells. This is the case in hereditary diseases. On the other hand, a mutation can occur in a somatic cell of an organism. Such mutations will be present in all descendants of this cell, and certain mutations can cause the cell to become malignant, and thus cause cancer[3].

Often, gene mutations that could cause a genetic disorder are repaired by the DNA repair system of the cell. Each cell has a number of pathways through which enzymes recognize and repair mistakes in DNA. Because DNA can be damaged or mutated in many ways, the process of DNA repair is an important way in which the body protects itself from disease.

Beneficial mutations

A very small percentage of all mutations actually have a positive effect. These mutations lead to new versions of proteins that help an organism and its future generations better adapt to changes in their environment. For example, a specific 32 base pair deletion in human CCR5 (CCR5-Δ32) confers HIV resistance to homozygotes and delays AIDS onset in heterozygotes.[4] The CCR5 mutation is more common in those of European descent. One theory for the etiology of the relatively high frequency of CCR5-Δ32 in the European population is that it conferred resistance to the bubonic plague in mid-14th century Europe. People who had this mutation were able to survive infection thus its frequency in the population increased.[5] It could also explain why this mutation is not found in Africa where the bubonic plague never reached. Newer theory says the selective pressure on the CCR5 Delta 32 mutation has been caused by smallpox instead of bubonic plague

 

[Ol'Master]

Amateur philosophy is hilarious, and that goes for both sides of this argument. Although at least Kerberos is being reasonable in his posts and not merely using ad hominem arguments and being arrogant about his points.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Just because god exists in your mind doesnt mean god exists at all.

Maybe not to you, but to me they do. But again, I'm not going to hold it over your head like an ego centric priest. I'm not pro-stupid religio fasso. You and I can relax on that thought.

As for your statements on the 5 legged deer and the handicapped you have simply proved to me you have NO understanding of the mechanisms behind evolution.

I'm simply trying to find a more modern ground on which evolution or mutation has been possible or is physically documented with basic evidence, it wasn't serving as an excuse. However, it was interesting to note that in your sources, they're failed to be to a direct reference to any genetic transitions. A photograph or comparison of skin cells for example, or hair, suggesting a physical relationship between an animal now and an animal past.

I'm not trying to refute evolution but there are still some holes in it I'd like plugged. It's great to read of examples in text, but to see it at work, that would be breathtaking.

Surely, comparitive artwork of a genetic stairway works as an illustrative example (the progress from monkeys into humans) pretty well, but I'm still skeptical of that relationship. What if we just aren't monkeys but a different species of human? I know, that must sound naive, but bare with me. Imagine if what was prepositioned had nothing to do with the visual simularities between us and them, but perhaps, a completely seperate animal that certainly had some crude characteristics but that was nonetheless, a genetic family of its own?

I'm sorry, but this is just damn interesting to me. So, if I ask a lot of particular questions, unlike some other members in the forum, I'm not trying to be rude when I ask them.

I just miss having debates like this.

To function correctly, each cell depends on thousands of proteins to function in the right places at the right times. When a mutation alters a protein that plays a critical role in the body, a medical condition can result

So, the five legged deer could've been a mutation.

A very small percentage of all mutations actually have a positive effect. These mutations lead to new versions of proteins that help an organism and its future generations better adapt to changes in their environment. For example, a specific 32 base pair deletion in human CCR5 (CCR5-Δ32) confers HIV resistance to homozygotes and delays AIDS onset in heterozygotes.[4] The CCR5 mutation is more common in those of European descent. One theory for the etiology of the relatively high frequency of CCR5-Δ32 in the European population is that it conferred resistance to the bubonic plague in mid-14th century Europe. People who had this mutation were able to survive infection thus its frequency in the population increased.[5] It could also explain why this mutation is not found in Africa where the bubonic plague never reached. Newer theory says the selective pressure on the CCR5 Delta 32 mutation has been caused by smallpox instead of bubonic plague

Interesting snippet. Do you think our bodies are trying to evolve right now and in which way?

 

[[Matt]]

I'm not trying to refute evolution but there are still some holes in it I'd like plugged.

reading both 'The Blind Watchmaker' and 'The Selfish Gene' will do that in spectacular fashion. Both fascinating reads if you're interested in the subject.

So, the five legged deer could've been a mutation.

It was a genetic mutation but proved not to be beneficial to the deer as it didnt help it run away from the hunter at a much faster speed! Joking aside its more than likely to be a slightly harmful mutation as i can imagine soemthing like that extra limb growing where it was bieng a hinderence when the deer tried to jump over branches or other objects whilst running away from a predator.

Interesting snippet. Do you think our bodies are trying to evolve right now and in which way?

Evolution occurs only in times of hardship as a way of coping with external pressures such as food depravation and severe environmental change so i dont think humanity in western civilisation at least is evolving much if at all right now.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

K e r b e r o s, do you actually believe in evolution?
Ol'Master, your a retard. Stop acting like your a better philosopher, you have had no part in this debate, so clearly you know nothing of philosophy. So join in and show us how your better or shut the **** up.

It must feel pretty good to trample on the emotions of others and whats worse is I don't think you've accomplished anything in process.

He called Darwin, a person who has contributed more to science and society than Saturos can even dream of achieveing, someone who is smarter than anyone on this board, a quack. As if he has a better theory.

Look ID supporters, if you can't get this into your head, I'm gonna stop debating cause it will prove how retarded you all are:

Evidence for evolution: DNA, fossils, actual witnessing, carbon dating, bones, common sense (In an ever changing enviroment it makes sense too adapt and change, or all life would be dead), etc.

Evidence for creationism:
...
...
...

See what I did there? I showed that creationism/ID has no evidence, thus refuting it. Because if something has no evidence, it cannot become a theory and thus will not be considered by science.
The End.

 

[Dan]

K e r b e r o s, do you actually believe in evolution?
Ol'Master, your a retard. Stop acting like your a better philosopher, you have had no part in this debate, so clearly you know nothing of philosophy. So join in and show us how your better or shut the **** up.



He called Darwin, a person who has contributed more to science and society than Saturos can even dream of achieveing, someone who is smarter than anyone on this board, a quack. As if he has a better theory.

Look ID supporters, if you can't get this into your head, I'm gonna stop debating cause it will prove how retarded you all are:

Evidence for evolution: DNA, fossils, actual witnessing, carbon dating, bones, common sense (In an ever changing enviroment it makes sense too adapt and change, or all life would be dead), etc.

Evidence for creationism:
...
...
...

See what I did there? I showed that creationism/ID has no evidence, thus refuting it. Because if something has no evidence, it cannot become a theory and thus will not be considered by science.
The End.

wow, you are just an ocean of calm and rational reasoning

 

[Dan]

Evolution occurs only in times of hardship as a way of coping with external pressures such as food depravation and severe environmental change so i dont think humanity in western civilisation at least is evolving much if at all right now.

Evolution occurs all the time. In fact what you are saying is completely wrong. Because there is less pressure right now doesn't mean that evolution just stops. In fact, if anything, the human race is diversifying now more than ever, because resources are [relatively] plentiful, there is more freedom for genetic diversity. Where someone who is genetically different might have died 5000 years ago, they can survive today and pass on those different genes. Whether they are better or not is up to the future, not society to judge.

That isn't to say that natural selection doesn't continue right now, just that the external pressures are less. Not just any random combination of DNA will be able to go from a baby to procreation.

 

[Ol'Master]

K e r b e r o s, do you actually believe in evolution?
Ol'Master, your a retard. Stop acting like your a better philosopher, you have had no part in this debate, so clearly you know nothing of philosophy. So join in and show us how your better or shut the **** up.



He called Darwin, a person who has contributed more to science and society than Saturos can even dream of achieveing, someone who is smarter than anyone on this board, a quack. As if he has a better theory.

Look ID supporters, if you can't get this into your head, I'm gonna stop debating cause it will prove how retarded you all are:

Evidence for evolution: DNA, fossils, actual witnessing, carbon dating, bones, common sense (In an ever changing enviroment it makes sense too adapt and change, or all life would be dead), etc.

Evidence for creationism:
...
...
...

See what I did there? I showed that creationism/ID has no evidence, thus refuting it. Because if something has no evidence, it cannot become a theory and thus will not be considered by science.
The End.

Cheers for proving my point.

 

[Jintor]

I'm still not sure what your point was. All you did was say 'This is hilareous' without, you know, saying anything.

 

[Kula Meenur]

/facepalm


also, this should belong in politics... or somewhere other than the lounge :|

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Cheers for proving my point.

And your "point" was? That you can't debate?

 

[Shift]

SEX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111

 

[Absinthe]

I'm still not sure what your point was. All you did was say 'This is hilareous' without, you know, saying anything.

People love to get their jollies off by coming into topics they've contributed screw all too and "laugh" at everyone.

This is how you know you have a pathetic little **** on your hands.

 

[[Matt]]

Evolution occurs all the time. In fact what you are saying is completely wrong. Because there is less pressure right now doesn't mean that evolution just stops. In fact, if anything, the human race is diversifying now more than ever, because resources are [relatively] plentiful, there is more freedom for genetic diversity. Where someone who is genetically different might have died 5000 years ago, they can survive today and pass on those different genes. Whether they are better or not is up to the future, not society to judge.

That isn't to say that natural selection doesn't continue right now, just that the external pressures are less. Not just any random combination of DNA will be able to go from a baby to procreation.

I know how diversification works. I never once stated in my previous post we have stopped evolving as a species.

i dont think humanity in western civilisation at least is evolving much if at all right now.

Ive italicised the important bit from my post

 

[Acepilotf14]

Who the hell brought this thread back to life?
I second shift's motion.

 

[Azner]

I did some theology last night, i see that this thread wont really get anywhere till we start thinking of getting together and playing some... TF2! OH AND SEX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Cole]

whats sex?

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

crap

If you've got nothing to contribute, GTFO.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Whoa, whoa! Wait a moment guys -- I'm lost. Does this have anything to do with me getting buttsechs? Or what the heck just happened a couple of posts up -- ... I mean, that wasn't BUTTSECHS?