Swordplay

[Kronosan]

Anyone thinking about creating a convincing sword fighting system? Anyone know if you can give the 3rd person sword model a collision box that when comes in contact with other players or other swords triggers animations and sounds (death, deflection, etc)?

 

[babywax]

I'm sure it can, with either tracelines or a collision box.

 

[Majestic XII]

I emailed valve about this since i will use it in my mod, and they said they're using the physics engine to make it react like it should do in real life. This is great if you have swords or something like that in a mod

 

[Kyorisu]

I emailed valve about this since i will use it in my mod, and they said they're using the physics engine to make it react like it should do in real life. This is great if you have swords or something like that in a mod

AKA a modified crowbar.

The Pirates Of The Carribbean game did a good job of swordplay. It can really be fun especially when outnumbered.

 

[babywax]

How did they do it?

 

[Interitus]

So the ability to add swords and the like are possible out of the box?

 

[The Dark Elf]

So the ability to add swords and the like are possible out of the box?

meh screw swords. The minute I get HL2 I'm gonna mod the crowbar to be that giant mace the witch king has :E

hmm imagine that in MP

 

[Cerberus]

for myself

I personally am interested in getting a cool melee system to work from a first player viewpoint. One game that came out YEARs ago had the numpad and wasd used, the numpad controlled what kind of stroke you did. If you pressed 9 and then 1 your character did a slash starting upper right and ending lower left. However forcing the player to deviate from having one hand on the keyboard and the other on the mouse is a bad idea.

The Specialist does something very important, giving players a melee attack to disarm their opponent. However their system is very prone to abuse, someone with a script can almost always beat someone else in melee combat.

One major problem about first-person-view melee combat is the ability to flank. Players all have tunnel vision with fps combat, and the closer two enemies are to each other the easier it is for flanking to happen. Since melee combat requires you to be near your opponent, flanking is a very real problem. The specialist gets around this by having the special powerups, one of which dramatically slows peoples movement but gives them total freedom with mouse movement making flanking extremely difficult.


I myself do swordplay, fenced for 5 years before moving to tae kwon do. I know that the perfect first-player-viewpoint melee system exists, it just hasn't been invented yet. It would have to have the following
-one hand on keyboard, other hand on mouse
-ability to parry/block opponent
-many different kinds of attacks
-different melee weapons work better at different distances
-ability to disarm the opponent
-make flanking a melee opponent ineffective

 

[neozero]

Some of my Ideas would plan to be doing mech based swords/energy weapons. (Remember I'm a Gundam Head).

Have any of you ever played Mobile Suit gundam 0079 Side Story: Rise from the Ashes?

It was an old dreamcast game about an 3 person australian MS team (affectianately titled the white dingoes).

anyway the point is that it had a pretty descent sword fighting system (though it was overly simplified. There were three moves slash - upwardslash - block.

The point was that it did show that a first person swordplay was possible (even if they were mechs).

One thing I would find hard to do is to make the player more aware. They'd be fine in 3rd person, but in 1rst person you'd need to use specialreticules to note things like hand position, target position, slash type, etc. Also you could do really complex acrobatic maneuvers or comboes (like in JK2: Jedi outcast& JK@: Jedi Academy) in 1rst person.

 

[Yakuza]

It seems as of late I have dumped a couple of my "ideas" on the dev forum here. But above all I have spent the most of time detailing out the specifics of a Samurai/Ninja mod. I have training in Taijutsu and I have been studying the art of Iado for a couple of years. Not to mention I am a huge fan Kurosawa and other old samurai movies.

 

[RHex]

I need a good sword system for my MOD, and I have been thinking about one based on the angle between you and the opponent. Like, if the opponent comes from a 35degree angle to your left side, then it will trigger a response suited to counter this attack.

The whole thing would be based on different stances, all a response to a possible attack.

 

[Yakuza]

I need a good sword system for my MOD, and I have been thinking about one based on the angle between you and the opponent. Like, if the opponent comes from a 35degree angle to your left side, then it will trigger a response suited to counter this attack.

The whole thing would be based on different stances, all a response to a possible attack.

yeah thats kinda were I have been headed. As far as the stances go.

Each stance is better used for a paricular circumstance, yet all can be used effectivly at any given time.

The challenge is to keep it flowing and smooth.

I think one of the best sword fighting games is the Mark of Kri for ps2.

 

[Kon]

the best sword fighting game ive played was jedi outcast, though I haven't played too many sword games..
in this game, they had like 3 styles that can easily be switched whenever in combat, and each style had various moves and also more combos for each move and style plus special moves for each style. plus you could kick in various directions and run up walls and such, you could also throw your sword, block attacks, get caught in some test of strength type of moment where your sabers are locked together and you gotta press the attack button rapidly.. was really sweet..

 

[Imrahil]

Lol

That numpad and wasd thing was exactly what I thought of yesterday! I'm very interested in developing a FPS melee fighting system. I have some other ideas that could contribute greatly to a sword play system. Hopefully I'll be able to figure something great out.

Imrahil

I personally am interested in getting a cool melee system to work from a first player viewpoint. One game that came out YEARs ago had the numpad and wasd used, the numpad controlled what kind of stroke you did. If you pressed 9 and then 1 your character did a slash starting upper right and ending lower left. However forcing the player to deviate from having one hand on the keyboard and the other on the mouse is a bad idea.

The Specialist does something very important, giving players a melee attack to disarm their opponent. However their system is very prone to abuse, someone with a script can almost always beat someone else in melee combat.

One major problem about first-person-view melee combat is the ability to flank. Players all have tunnel vision with fps combat, and the closer two enemies are to each other the easier it is for flanking to happen. Since melee combat requires you to be near your opponent, flanking is a very real problem. The specialist gets around this by having the special powerups, one of which dramatically slows peoples movement but gives them total freedom with mouse movement making flanking extremely difficult.


I myself do swordplay, fenced for 5 years before moving to tae kwon do. I know that the perfect first-player-viewpoint melee system exists, it just hasn't been invented yet. It would have to have the following
-one hand on keyboard, other hand on mouse
-ability to parry/block opponent
-many different kinds of attacks
-different melee weapons work better at different distances
-ability to disarm the opponent
-make flanking a melee opponent ineffective

 

[RHex]

yeah thats kinda were I have been headed. As far as the stances go.

If all the stances had the same beginning it would be possible to make it flow..

Like the main position would always be with the grip of the sword low, at the same level as your tan tien(between your navel and your..eh "little hobbit" ) and the tip of the sword level with your eyes. Or for a more agressive style you could have it the opposite way.

 

[Cerberus]

well

to be honest, I already have the control scheme worked out. Been in writing for several months, and recently I've been focusing on how we can animate the melee combat without too much difficulty. The control scheme isn't brilliant, but theres a few nice ideas that I'd prefer to keep as my own.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

In my opinion, the best swordfighting in games come from Soul Calibur 2 and Ocarina of Time.

Soul Calibur is probably way too complex, but an OoT system could work quite well.

 

[TsuNamI]

One game that came out YEARs ago had the numpad and wasd used, the numpad controlled what kind of stroke you did. If you pressed 9 and then 1 your character did a slash starting upper right and ending lower left.

I think you're referring to "Die by the sword". And those graphics were ownage for the time it came out. Best sword-fight system I've seen to date, and it had a toggle to use your mouse instead of the numpad. You just had to move your mouse the way you would move the sword. It's damage model was quite accurate too, could chop off arms/head/hands/...

 

[IchI]

Hehehe, I actually have been thinking about this in my latest idea for a mod. I have actually come up with a way of perfecting a fighting which will flow freely and can contain multiple characters. Yes this does mean you can have 3 vs 1 sword fights as long as the 1 person it good enough. In a 3rd person perpoective it would hopfully look very realistic. The idea I have would also be quiet tactics. Its not even a very complex system and I am currently looking into makeing a multiplayer game that is true to the samuria and there techniques. I havn't wrote anything down but I was kinda waiting for Majestic to get some time so I can talk to him about it. See if he likes it. The method I came up with is quite original so I don't really want to many people to know about it. Mainly because its quiet an easy system and could be very attractive to over people. This is the 3rd idea for a mod I have had but it could be the one I follow. The others in my opinion would have stud out above other mods but they where to complex for me to handle. I need a simple system inside a simple mod that can be very effective. Its just taking me over 3/4 months to actually get something as promassing as before. Also since my dad trains with samuria swords and just happens to have a black belt in "can't remember the name of the fighting style name" then it should be easy for me to find samuria moves and actions.

 

[Yakuza]

Hehehe, I actually have been thinking about this in my latest idea for a mod. I have actually come up with a way of perfecting a fighting which will flow freely and can contain multiple characters. Yes this does mean you can have 3 vs 1 sword fights as long as the 1 person it good enough. In a 3rd person perpoective it would hopfully look very realistic. The idea I have would also be quiet tactics. Its not even a very complex system and I am currently looking into makeing a multiplayer game that is true to the samuria and there techniques. I havn't wrote anything down but I was kinda waiting for Majestic to get some time so I can talk to him about it. See if he likes it. The method I came up with is quite original so I don't really want to many people to know about it. Mainly because its quiet an easy system and could be very attractive to over people. This is the 3rd idea for a mod I have had but it could be the one I follow. The others in my opinion would have stud out above other mods but they where to complex for me to handle. I need a simple system inside a simple mod that can be very effective. Its just taking me over 3/4 months to actually get something as promassing as before. Also since my dad trains with samuria swords and just happens to have a black belt in "can't remember the name of the fighting style name" then it should be easy for me to find samuria moves and actions.

LOL dude you sound just like me. Thats almost exactly were I have been heading. For the last several months I have been working on many ideas but have givin 98% of my time to the specifics of the sword fighting in my Samurai/Ninja mod. I am trained in Taijutsu so I am having no trouble in the ninja fighting concept. But the Samurai styles have been fun and time consuming. I watch a lot of Samurai movies, most of wich are from the Zatoichi series and my latest investment the "Lone Wolf and Cub" series. My goal is to come up with a fighting system similar to what you see in these movies. I have to admit that my biggest inspiration is the movie "Sword of Doom", it has some of the coolest sword fighting I have ever scene.

I too feel I have to keep this close for know. I hope you guys the best of luck.

Its funny as i have been working on this concept I have found myself in my office at work with long empty cardboard rolls acting out specific sword cuts...LOL

 

[IchI]

LOL dude you sound just like me. Thats almost exactly were I have been heading. For the last several months I have been working on many ideas but have givin 98% of my time to the specifics of the sword fighting in my Samurai/Ninja mod. I am trained in Taijutsu so I am having no trouble in the ninja fighting concept. But the Samurai styles have been fun and time consuming. I watch a lot of Samurai movies, most of wich are from the Zatoichi series and my latest investment the "Lone Wolf and Cub" series. My goal is to come up with a fighting system similar to what you see in these movies. I have to admit that my biggest inspiration is the movie "Sword of Doom", it has some of the coolest sword fighting I have ever scene.

I too feel I have to keep this close for know. I hope you guys the best of luck.

Its funny as i have been working on this concept I have found myself in my office at work with long empty cardboard rolls acting out specific sword cuts...LOL

lmfao, contact me on IRC maybe we can talk about each others ideas

 

[Synthos]

I have envisioned an awesome fighting system, albeit a bit difficult to code and would require some tweaking to make it work right

you're in the 3rd person perspective, no other way to do it
imagine a sphere around the character, with the length of their arm and the sword put together as the radius
now, to strike, the character holds down the mouse button and moves the most around. This action moves the tip of the character's sword along the edge of the sphere. You can tweak it so it doesn't look dumb, i assure you

the downside to this is that the character cannot freelook while they're swinging. The solution to this is to when they start swinging, their strafe keys rebind to turning keys, so they can do full circle attacks or charge their opponent.

Blocking would be done all the time when the character was NOT swinging.
THat's my bit. It's fairly hard to implement but i'd like to see it done

 

[Teddy]

i've had a go at doing some weapon based melee combat code for hl1, it's not very easy.

i mean, to make a single-player sword fighting system is no prob, but when you start testing with latency, the prediction makes an awful mess of what is normally a very precise and accurate system

i hope valve write some miracle prediction code to make it work like jk2!

 

[FictiousWill]

What about JK2? Those singleplayer lightsaber duels were great fun, especially in 3rd person.

 

[Synthos]

HAH! JK's miracle prediction? My butt, I've played JK2 and JO, there's been quite a few times i've seen swords pass through bodies... *ANNOYING* :angry:

 

[Teddy]

if you think that's annoying, you should try some other quake-engine based multiplayer melee mods. They really sark!

 

[Cerberus]

Teddy, I would be extremely happy if you elaborated on the problems of melee in hl1.

 

[Kon]

ok, i be thinknig and i came up with a perfect system..

you have the mouse for one hand and that aims your character and plus other things you can assign to buttons..

and then you have some sort of device that you wear on your shoulders and other arm. this would reproduce somehow the movemove of your arm based on keypoints in the device you wear.
then you have a handle/hilt? part of a weapon which you wear as a glove and there are a set of more buttons that you can press on the side of the handle that you grip loosely, this handle/glove also is how it tells how the sword is positioned..

then you just play like that.. assign commands to the buttons on the handle and mouse ..

i dunno, use you imagination..

 

[babywax]

I would have an advantage, I'm double jointed.

 

[Morlock]

Interesting thread, if a bit short on specifics

I like the JK2 model as a starting point. I'm not really interested in the "ultimate fighting system," for two reasons:
1) I plan to incorporate my combat system into a wider gameplay set, so all sorts of player actions will need to be possible during combat. This sort of limits how much control I can give to the combat end of things, although I do plan to use control modes (i.e. action/combat, roleplay, skillmodes, etc.)
2) The aforementioned latency issues.

I don't like the idea of mouse movement controlling anything but aim, although viewlock does have certain limited usefulness here (dueling more than melee).

I think a combination of movement keys, attack buttons, and a few other keys (kick, alternate attack, etc.) for selecting combat techniques has the most appeal.

I'm not inordinately worried about scripting and exploits because my design is centered around the co-op model.

I keep hearing about die by the sword, but I've never played it. I wish there was a detailed write up of the design somewhere.

On a sort of side note, I like the UFC games for unarmed combat, no need to reinvent a well-made wheel.