Tactital Gameplay

Noodle

Noodle

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Food for thought, I hope you find it delicious.

Is VALVe making any plans on maybe adding a bit more tactical by Episode 3? I know they already added on to the simple run and shoot with physics puzzles and an epic storyline, but all the Half-Life games seem to lack any tactical requirements. It just feels too arcade-y at times (this is also thanks to sub-par Combine AI, but that's another topic). I like Episode:2 a lot since the hunters required some tricky maneuvering to get a good shot off on them with the grav gun. The final battle also required some tricky maneuvering. But tricky maneuvering got old fast enough with Halo. So did stepping behind a corner to reload and then going back to running and shooting.

Stealth gameplay?
Maybe combining a physics puzzle with combat effectively?

Any other thoughts on this?

Oh, and most importantly, has VALVe said anything about this in Ep:3?
 
Would be good to see a bit more of that, as you say. And also agree on the old Combine AI front! (Who doesn't? ;))

Struggling to think of some ideas though. Wonder if the HEV suit will get any additions that would aid some tactical play?
 
Tactical gameplay would be something, but it just seems overdone these days... everything is tactical. HL has always been about fancy new weapons and increasingly difficult enemies to dispatch with them. I think what would be nice would be more enemy-specific weaponry like in Bioshock. Instead of just using whatever your best weapon is until the ammo is gone, you use what's best to kill an enemy... that would add some dynamic gameplay without changing a lot of what makes Half Life the game it is.

Some HEV additions would be cool too... like other use for suit energy than flash lights and sprinting. Honestly I don't know how they could still suggest flash lights take power when you can power an LED light these days for three days with the power of a sneeze.
 
Mong0! said:
Cod made me love this, now every game must have it.
Click to expand...

COD and COD2 were fun because they lacked stealth gameplay. They were just run and gun action above and beyond every other WW2 shooter. There are enough stealth action games out there... don't put it in my HL
 
your in a F***ING HEV suit that is near impenetrable, Half-Life feels "Arcade-y" at times because thats what it is... an arcade style shooter... ableit cleverly disguised with an awesome story and characters an all that... but the combat always has been and always will be arcade, if you want tactical go play operation flashpoint or arma or something that is meant to be tactical.
 
the lack of combat tactics is what makes half life, half life. any change would make it something else. the run and gun style makes it more epic, you know fight to the end.
 
Gah, I'm not wanting a complete transition to something tactical, that would definitely mess things up. But the original HL had more strategy than HL2 and the episodes. Maybe make things a bit less linear in places.
 
What would be totally awesome is a cover system!

Or like, parkour!
 
More exploration, more places to hide from enemies and stuff like that would be pretty nice. Half-Life 2 covers its linearity very well, but it's impossible to get lost on the maps - which is bad. I want to get lost. Explore. But the console generation would probably get angry and bored after 2 minutes of walking around ;)
 
All the best games let you loot your enemies and do quests. Without this Half-life will never be good, ever.

Take that, 1998
 
Przemek said:
More exploration, more places to hide from enemies and stuff like that would be pretty nice. Half-Life 2 covers its linearity very well, but it's impossible to get lost on the maps - which is bad. I want to get lost. Explore. But the console generation would probably get angry and bored after 2 minutes of walking around ;)
Click to expand...

Yeah the game could use, what I like to call, a little more "left and right." Linear gameplay is expected and makes story telling and discovery much more accurate and discernable, but sometime you need to go off the beaten path to the left or right just to get a feel for it.

The best and most applicable instance I could think of currently is Left 4 Dead. You can run the fastest line in L4D start to finish and win. You can also go off the path a bit and find ammo, health, and obviousy more enemies to fight. In HL you've always killed every single enemy and ran the straight line. In HL2 and the episodes, they added more of this "left and right" so you could go into a building and check things out, maybe find some more ammo, but I think it should be expanded of only a little.

Of course it might get annoying if you think you're goign the right way and kill some enemies only to find that it was not the right way.
 
I personally love HL's arcadey bunnyhop without loosing accuracy style. Most other recent FPSs (Halo and Bioshock being the only two exceptions that spring to mind) use holding still, going prone and iron sights for increased accuracy and realism. HL2 manages to be separate from these by being defiantly and pleasantly oldschool.
 
Well, you can at least rely on someone to make a mod with more "realistic" weapon and difficulty settings with iron sights and faster kills and stuff. Though I would definitely just prefer the gameplay to stay how it is, except I will of course use my special shotgun shell cfg files to make it fire birdshot and slugs and stuff.
 
I'd love to have a section of Episode Three that's like All Ghillied Up from Call of Duty 4 (aka The Sniper Mission). Although if it's in an arctic region it'd be more like Cliffhanger from Modern Warfare 2 (aka The Snowmobile Mission).

But either way it'd be fun to have stealthy parts where you can choose what to do. As in where your meant to be stealthy but you can choose not to, that kind of thing.

Also we need more weapons, like a Sniper Rifle.

smodsniper.jpg
 
Yeah, guys, lets copy and paste scenes from other games into half-life! Like a rapper does for background music because he has no musical talent! :D

I understand what you're saying, but a sniper level isn't really half-life's speed. It's either in your face, or building suspense for it to be in your face.
 
I agree. Sniper combat doesnt really fit in with Half Life's gameplay, especially when you are trying to avoid enemies.
 
I just don't see a stealth mission working. You can't even lie down in Half-Life. Something like sneaking around a tentacle or hydra, but I don't see anything like CoD's stealth missions working.
 
Valve may do everything and anything, but please, don't copy from CoD :|
 
I bet they had a whole snowmobile section done, and then MW2 came out, they went '****' and scrapped the whole project.
 
Originally, you could play as a member of the Civil Protection for one level and get to harass, round up, beat on, and execute civilians during a day's job.






That would actually be kind of cool.
 
Van_Halen said:
a sniper level isn't really half-life's speed.
Click to expand...

I disagree. That screenshot I posted came from SMOD Tactical, which honestly made Half-Life 2 so much more fun to play, because I could do things tactically or I could play it like normal, which is just great.
 
And I'm sure there will be an SMOD Tactical type mod for Ep3, and it will probably be pretty sweet.

I just don't think it's something Valve needs to spend their time on, especially when it's been sitting in development for so long.
 
Necromas said:
And I'm sure there will be an SMOD Tactical type mod for Ep3, and it will probably be pretty sweet.

I just don't think it's something Valve needs to spend their time on, especially when it's been sitting in development for so long.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm of the same opinion.

Leave Half-Life to VALVe, & leave Tactical Half-Life to modders.
 
I suppose one bit that Vavle could get away with without straying too far from their usual way of doing things would be, something like a reverse of the sniper bit in Ep2. Alyx helps Gordon out with a lot of the Zombies / Zombines using the Combine sniper rifle. There could be a scene (not overly long, of course) whereby Alyx needs to get to a console, but can't because of the *insert Combine / Xen enemy type here* and Gordon can't get there for some other reason; maybe a scripted sequence whereby a cave-in / avalanche (seeing as we're likely to be in a snowy enviro) splits him and Alyx up. Gordon then has to use a mounted sniper rifle to help her out? There's a forcefield around it so as he can't just lob a few grenades, launch a rocket or two at them... :p

Always wished you could've used them in the current episodes. :(

:)
 
The A.I definantly needs to improve for the Combine soldiers with better tactics: flank, cover, support, take cover, weapons specific tactics (like shotgun combine staying out of sight until they are close). Also I'd like it if they wouldn't spot you the instnat you come into view. If you are mostly hidden or they aren't looking in your direction they won't act untill they see you or you shoot. I don't like omnipotent enemies.

I would also like the linear maps to have more lateral width. Multiple potential paths that allow enemies to flank you and you to flank them for a surprise attack. Example: you can bust down the door guns blazing, or you can climb in a vent and get behind them, or you can go around but have them show up at another battle latter.(something like that)

I would also like to see the "enemy weakness" that was suggested earlier. Shotgun: good for zombies, lightly armored enemies, and large fleshy enemies (Ant-lion Guards). Less effective against armored synths and Elites. SMG: good against armored units, bad against large enemies (Ant-lion Guards). You get the idea.

I'd also like to see just a little more intensive for taking cover, or environments that actaly HAVE cover to take.

There also needs to be a medium to long range rifle the SMG and Pulse Rifle are all pretty closer range. Granted, most combat in HL is close range but there are a few areas where the baddies are pretty far away.

Also, an Iron sight system would be ok as long as long as they don't go COD with it and make it so that the ONLY accurate way to fire is to look down the sights. I would prefer it if the guns were actuate anyway but the iron-sights give just slightly better accuracy and a slight zoom effect... just to make to longer range shots a little more consistent.

My favorite enemy from HL2 Ep2 are the Hunters. I'd like it if they would spend some time refining the hunter's A.I and tactics. I would also like to see more enemies as original and dangerous as the hunters. Why not a medium sized Combine Mech or Synth, for heavy support (slower with lots of firepower). That way they could team up with soldiers and hunters. The big guy supports the soldiers while the hunters run around the sides to flank. (just spouting ideas)
 
If not an iron sight, at least a dynamic targeting reticule. Maybe let it move around a bit more when you sprint so it doesn't feel like you're hovering.
 
I agree with pretty much everything lord_raken wrote. I bet many players will not like iron sight aiming, but I believe it's one of the best things in FPP games since someone started putting the weapons to the far right side of the screen ;) I hope id software's Rage has it too.

We'll see what Valve has in store for us. I bet they aren't just updating the engine and assets all this time.
 
Noodle said:
If not an iron sight, at least a dynamic targeting reticule. Maybe let it move around a bit more when you sprint so it doesn't feel like you're hovering.
Click to expand...

they could incorporate both. The two are not exclusive.

In borderlands if you don't shift your view for a while the screen will drift on its own. I know it has no effect on game play but it made my character feel more natural and real. Also when sprinting you can't shoot and the gun drops as you run. That would make the game much more tactical.... having to choose between maximum mobility or offensive capability. Of course you can stop sprinting at any time to shoot but it still has that tactical feel.
 
Sorry for the double post but I had an idea.

Perhaps they could use a mixture of linear and open environment game-play. They would have linear sections with limited lateral capability connection large more open environments with a lot of lateral movement. The final battle in Ep2 comes to mind, where you had to go back and forth fighting striders and hunters . In Ep3 it could be running around to turn on generators or something or just fight. There would be many ways and orders you could go about it.

Another idea along this same line: like the car level in Ep2 where you would drive and reach a compound where you would have to explore and discover something to move on... adding a randomizer to the location of needed switches or batteries would add to re playability.

Not being able to shoot while sprinting I think would also add another level of depth to the game play.
 
I wrote about something similar on these forums a few months ago regarding random enemy placements. The crucial parts would remain as they are, but when you're exploring the surrounding areas, why not make different zombies, crabs, etc. attack you from different places each time you play? Something similar to AI Director, but limited. Not knowing if a fast zombie will jump at you just around that corner would make the game a lot more fun :) Areas which are supposed to be combat free would remain combat free.
 
Przemek said:
I wrote about something similar on these forums a few months ago regarding random enemy placements. The crucial parts would remain as they are, but when you're exploring the surrounding areas, why not make different zombies, crabs, etc. attack you from different places each time you play? Something similar to AI Director, but limited. Not knowing if a fast zombie will jump at you just around that corner would make the game a lot more fun :) Areas which are supposed to be combat free would remain combat free.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Why not use a carefully limited A.I director to randomize enemy placements, timing, and composition and also using it to slightly alter the map and item placements. Nothing as open as the L4D2 AI director but let it have enough variability to keep game play fresh.

If you are doing really well you will run into more enemies and less amo and health. Sometimes a zombie will crash from above and sometimes will burst through the floor. Last time the health and ammo was in one place not it is in another. The off/on switch was over there last time and now its over here.

Small thinks like that would add a lot of depth... In my opinion.
 
How about you can choose whether to try and be stealthy, or just wack 'em down with your crowbar?
 
More ways to flank. Choose either higher ground with no cover, lots of space but weak cover like wood fences ect. Choose your path but still retain linear gameplay.

Significantly smarter AI. Smarter ways to deal with then appear.

More enviromental things like shooting lights to make combine go close and use there lights on there guns or something.

Shield combine. Very arcady. Also requires different tactics.

Melee combine. We need more melee enemies to fight that are human other than stun batons. Requires different tactics.

SLAMS are tactical so they should return. I think they would have been more useful in half-life 2 than 1 so I do not know why they have not returned.

Electric + water = Happiness

Flamethrower combine. Big flamethrower + bullet = explosion

More flammable things to shoot in general.

So long as it still retains the core gameplay of half-life I am all for tactical gameplay just so long as its still a run and gun game. No stealth or anything.
 
ok but i dont want to think too much .. some tactical will do.. im here to have fun usually after some studies, shooting and destroying things please
 
Noodle said:
Stealth gameplay?
Click to expand...

The original HEV suit had a Stealth Mode that activated when you crouched, BUT NOOOOOO. KLEINER TOOK THAT OUT.

Not to mention you wouldn't have much chance for stealthy gameplay with the painfully linear levels.
 
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