TF2 Idling Application Users Busted

how on earth do people classify idling as cheating?

before the idler got big everyone was in achievement_idle servers. big difference? the idler let people idle without stressing the computer by having tf2 open. it didnt increase the chances of getting items, and it doesnt ruin the game for others like a hack does, so?

ridiculous.
 
Still have my Medal. Good.
They said they'll give back achievement earned weapons tomorrow, so I can keep ignoring my bonk and backburner!
 
Bad luck for all you idlers! I'll enjoy my halo :D
 
The halo looks like shit, and is rather annoying.

Valve fails at making "cheaters" feel remorse -- at least none of my friends that used the app care in the slightest.
 
notice everyone who didn't get one says they look bad? hmm...
 
For a second there I thought the cheaters would've gotten the fake halo, and the real d00ds would've gotten a random, real hat.

Dissapoint.
 
What Dan said.

But it wouldn't make much sense.
 
People who used programs are going to be affected whereas the ones who idled on servers won't "Going forward, if we find users using external applications, we'll remove all of their items".

Doesn't affect all the idlers :(
 
Great, luckily I've never used these programs.
How does Valve detect the people who used them?
EDIT: already found out
 
To be fair, its a pretty ****ing cool hat. Best hat I've seen in fact. Its better than the Indiana Jones and Rick Blaine's hat combined. I can't stop going in 3rd person just to look at the hat. The hat owns. I'm done.
 
Amusing to see all those who haven't got a hat touting their cheater's lament with pride
 
Operational said:
One violates the steam subscriber agreement, the other does not.

Restricting the use of third party applications interfacing with your software is a perfectly reasonable thing to enforce. I know of no major gaming company that allows it, especially for something as brazen as this.
Click to expand...

Steam and the Steam Software may include functionality designed to identify software or hardware processes or functionality that may give a player an unfair competitive advantage when playing multiplayer versions of any Steam Software, other Valve products, or modifications thereof ("Cheats"). You agree that you will not create or assist third parties in any way to create Cheats. You agree that you will not directly or indirectly disable, circumvent, or otherwise interfere with the operation of software designed to prevent or report the use of Cheats. You acknowledge and agree that either Valve or any online multiplayer host may refuse to allow you to participate in certain online multiplayer games if you use Cheats in connection with Steam or the Steam Software. Further, you acknowledge and agree that an online multiplayer host may report your use of Cheats to Valve, and Valve may communicate your history of use of Cheats to other online multiplayer hosts for Valve products. Valve may terminate your Account or a particular Subscription for any conduct or activity that Valve believes is illegal, constitutes a Cheat, or which otherwise negatively affects the enjoyment of Steam by other Subscribers. You acknowledge that Valve is not required to provide you notice before terminating your Subscriptions(s) and/or Account, but it may choose to do so.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I fail to see how the idler provided an 'unfair competitive advantage' or constituted in any way as a "Cheat". Some of you need to learn Valve's definition of a "Cheat" before supporting them so blindly.
 
Pulse said:
Yeah, I fail to see how the idler provided an 'unfair competitive advantage' or constituted in any way as a "Cheat". Some of you need to learn Valve's definition of a "Cheat" before supporting them so blindly.
Click to expand...

Subscription for any conduct or activity that Valve believes is illegal, constitutes a Cheat, or which otherwise negatively affects the enjoyment of Steam by other Subscribers.

http://pic.ipicture***/uploads/080405/865ZDlhzt3.jpg
 
Valve want people to actually play their games not just buy them. The hats are intended as a reward to people who do just that.

When people just idle and don't actually play, why should they be rewarded?

Valve simply rewarded those who play their games, easy as that.
 
Saying that using the idler doesn't ruin the game for others is not a valid excuse. If I steal 10 dollars from a very rich man I'm not really hurting him. But, you know, it's still illegal.
You can't use third party applications with Valve's games. It's really that simple.
 
Harryz said:
Subscription for any conduct or activity that Valve believes is illegal, constitutes a Cheat, or which otherwise negatively affects the enjoyment of Steam by other Subscribers.
Click to expand...
I don't think it is a cheat, and you've backed me up now by defining what cheating is for Steam games. It seems a lot of people miss the point of this argument due to not knowing much about the idling program or the situation in the TF2 community. Let me summarise quickly:

Everyone already has all the weapons (via achievement milestones) and drops. The idling program is used by everyone to get hats. Hats which add only aesthetic value. So how are you negatively affecting other players Harryz? People are doing it because they like getting a rare hat, not aimbot.

The reason Valve need to be so forceful with this is because if items are massively abundant they are worthless. Valve also said having several of one weapon will lead being able to manufacture it into a hat for that class. This value to the items needs to exist once the trading system is shipped (who knows when!?), and idling devalues it completely to just a hat swapping exercise. Pointless.

I think there will be people collecting ambassadors for example to get a spy hat, and hence need several ambassadors via trading. Idling means someone could get hat very quickly without trading.

In summary, I am actually very happy they've cracked down on this, it means we'll probably be seeing some progress soon.

Oh and using the Valve stance why do people pirate as opposed to stop piracy, look through the idling program. People did it because hats are too difficult to get and they are desired. No trading, no item combination & impossible chances. You can understand why players did it, it shows something wasn't working.

1. No combining items or trading (has taken a tremendous amount of time since the item framework was added).
2. Hats don't drop often enough, and Valve know these things...

We've also significantly increased the chance of finding any of the existing hats.
Click to expand...
We realize there is a high level of demand for items, and we're still working on systems to allow you to find them in new ways (via Trading, and crafting duplicates into desired items).
Click to expand...
 
Yeah, I can't disagree with you there. I'm just surprised about how many people care about the hats. *shrugs*
 
Kinda disappointed by the people even on here (I'm looking at you, Vman), this bastion of sanity and intelligence on the internet, being butthurt over this.

You wanted a silly hat so much that you script-kiddied to up your potential of getting some. You couldn't just wait for Valve to improve like they always do so you could get your little aesthetic upgrade.
 
So apparently the halo is causing a lot of butthurt.
 
Hectic Glenn said:
I don't think it is a cheat, and you've backed me up now by defining what cheating is for Steam games. It seems a lot of people miss the point of this argument due to not knowing much about the idling program or the situation in the TF2 community. Let me summarise quickly:

Everyone already has all the weapons (via achievement milestones) and drops. The idling program is used by everyone to get hats. Hats which add only aesthetic value. So how are you negatively affecting other players Harryz? People are doing it because they like getting a rare hat, not aimbot.

The reason Valve need to be so forceful with this is because if items are massively abundant they are worthless. Valve also said having several of one weapon will lead being able to manufacture it into a hat for that class. This value to the items needs to exist once the trading system is shipped (who knows when!?), and idling devalues it completely to just a hat swapping exercise. Pointless.

I think there will be people collecting ambassadors for example to get a spy hat, and hence need several ambassadors via trading. Idling means someone could get hat very quickly without trading.

In summary, I am actually very happy they've cracked down on this, it means we'll probably be seeing some progress soon.

Oh and using the Valve stance why do people pirate as opposed to stop piracy, look through the idling program. People did it because hats are too difficult to get and they are desired. No trading, no item combination & impossible chances. You can understand why players did it, it shows something wasn't working.

1. No combining items or trading (has taken a tremendous amount of time since the item framework was added).
2. Hats don't drop often enough, and Valve know these things...
Click to expand...

best spoken argument yet...however i still disagree with one point. I feel it was cheating, you were cheating other players, not necessarily Valve. The hats were supposed to show how much you play TF2 and it would unfair that you've gotten rewards for work you didn't do.

also...i can see this leading to some trolling/flaming and mass bans. mods be ready
 
Darkside55 said:
So apparently the halo is causing a lot of butthurt.
Click to expand...
Apparently

1251978617885.jpg
 
Hectic Glenn said:
I don't think it is a cheat, and you've backed me up now by defining what cheating is for Steam games.
Click to expand...

What? No he hasn't, or at least not in the way you think he has.

Valve may terminate your Account or a particular Subscription for any conduct or activity that Valve believes is illegal (1), constitutes a Cheat (2), or which otherwise negatively affects the enjoyment of Steam by other Subscribers (3).
Click to expand...

If Valve 'believes' your conduct (using an idler) constitutes a Cheat then Valve can terminate your account. I love the way they use 'believes'--they don't even have to give a decent justification for determining a program to be a cheat. Of course it's retarded that someone could consider using an idler 'cheating', but Valve have every right to lay the smack-down on you if you use one.
 
lol I only lost the kgb because I never had it through achievements.. (heavy sucks) still got my hat from before which was legit... yay?
 
Hectic Glenn said:
I don't think it is a cheat, and you've backed me up now by defining what cheating is for Steam games. It seems a lot of people miss the point of this argument due to not knowing much about the idling program or the situation in the TF2 community. Let me summarise quickly:

Everyone already has all the weapons (via achievement milestones) and drops. The idling program is used by everyone to get hats. Hats which add only aesthetic value. So how are you negatively affecting other players Harryz? People are doing it because they like getting a rare hat, not aimbot.

The reason Valve need to be so forceful with this is because if items are massively abundant they are worthless. Valve also said having several of one weapon will lead being able to manufacture it into a hat for that class. This value to the items needs to exist once the trading system is shipped (who knows when!?), and idling devalues it completely to just a hat swapping exercise. Pointless.

I think there will be people collecting ambassadors for example to get a spy hat, and hence need several ambassadors via trading. Idling means someone could get hat very quickly without trading.

In summary, I am actually very happy they've cracked down on this, it means we'll probably be seeing some progress soon.

Oh and using the Valve stance why do people pirate as opposed to stop piracy, look through the idling program. People did it because hats are too difficult to get and they are desired. No trading, no item combination & impossible chances. You can understand why players did it, it shows something wasn't working.

1. No combining items or trading (has taken a tremendous amount of time since the item framework was added).
2. Hats don't drop often enough, and Valve know these things...
Click to expand...

Yeah, this. :cheers:
 
PaoloM said:
Saying that using the idler doesn't ruin the game for others is not a valid excuse. If I steal 10 dollars from a very rich man I'm not really hurting him. But, you know, it's still illegal.
You can't use third party applications with Valve's games. It's really that simple.
Click to expand...

I don't see how it is actually ruining the game for others. You get no enhancement boost from wearing a hat, so therefore gameplay is not affected.

Your analogy does not work in this situation at all. In the case of the idlers, you're not stealing a hat from anyone. Everyone still has the same chance of getting a hat. You've just increased your time "in-game," and thus increased the opportunities to get a hat.

Mind you, I never used the idler program to obtain anything. I just think your arguments (like most others except for Hectic) are absolute crap.
 
So the halo is for players who cheated? Or who didn't cheat? I'm confused. I've never used a third-party app and I have the halo. I did spend like an hour on an idling server once though, back when they introduced the 'random drops' system. Not that I really care because I'm bored of TF2 anyway, just wondering.
 
There was a program you could use external to TF2, which simulated you idling in an actual TF2 server, diluted. Players could get drops (weapons and hats) using this method without actually idling in TF2 for hours.

Since Valve are pretty miffed about this 'fake idling', they have punished idlers by removing all their idled weapons and hats. Those players have been warned, meanwhile all the honest players received the halo.

That's the last time I'm explaining it, I do wonder why people only take an interest without reading the two threads we have on this!
 
sensai said:
I don't see how it is actually ruining the game for others. You get no enhancement boost from wearing a hat, so therefore gameplay is not affected.
Click to expand...

It's all about rules. It's all about principles. If Valve says that you can't use the idler, you can't use the idler.
 
In just feel more and more agitated by this every I team I read up on it. I don't care to be flagged as some amoral cheater.

Guess I'll be taking the moral high road and hitting achievement_idle while I attend class.
 
PaoloM said:
It's all about rules. It's all about principles. If Valve says that you can't use the idler, you can't use the idler.
Click to expand...

If it is about rules and principles, don't bring in arguments and comparisons that don't have anything to do with the point you are trying to make. See Hectic Glenn's post for a good example.
 
I used fake idle system..never got anything from it tho, and now when i look at my friends list and remember who else used it, I can only name the guys that played the game the most and love it from start, not saying others don't like it.. just those who used it on my friends list fall within a enthusiast group.
For me personal, and i guess for these other guys, its bit harsh calling us cheaters.. :/
I think all would be happier if valve punished real cheaters like aimbots and whatnot.. and gave us all some hats :)
 
I can understand why Valve would be miffed about idling servers but in a way do you not think to a certain degree it’s kind of their own fault? There are people out there who like TF2 as much as the next guy however, maybe because of a materialistic nature, want all the hats and additional items and have not been given (in my opinion) a decent way to obtain them (yet). I know that Valve are trying out a new system and it’s all about trial and error but really I feel they should have set the hats to some sort of achievement or score (e.g. get 10 backstabs as a Spy in a round and obtain one of the Spies hats or an achievement that isn’t class specific). Another point being many people who are lucky enough to get a hat are getting hats for classes they don’t really use, now this maybe a good way to get people playing other classes but initially it is still going to irritate some people (I didn’t mind but I know others do).
I just look forward to using the finalised system! :)
 
Lone Wolf said:
notice everyone who didn't get one says they look bad? hmm...
Click to expand...
Why would you assume I didn't get the hat? I got it, and I think they look stupid.

I really don't see what's up with the whole crusade against idlers. They really didn't hurt anyone, and (according to Valve's numbers) it really wasn't a widespread issue. Besides, the only people I saw using it in my friend's list using the idler where the ones who played TF2 all the time anyway.
 
Lone Wolf said:
Valve want people to actually play their games not just buy them. The hats are intended as a reward to people who do just that.

When people just idle and don't actually play, why should they be rewarded?

Valve simply rewarded those who play their games, easy as that.
Click to expand...

Uhhh, what? I actually play the game. I've played at least four hours a day every day of the summer and didn't get a hat. Then I started playing more and more and no hats. I started idling about a week ago so that I could idle when I couldn't spend my entire day playing TF2.

The point is. I play the game. I played the game for countless hours and was not rewarded.

Also, I think the halo is ugly. I wouldn't wear one even if i had one. If 95% of the TF2 community has the same hat, it removes the best part of hats. Having one that no one else has.
 
Hats are intended to be rare. Still doesn't give you the right to cheat the system and expect to get away with it.
 
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