The Dangers of Religious moderation

Walter said:
Hehe, antichristian society blind nonesence... I'll talk about fanatism once i start the debate too.
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it's obvious you didnt watch the video provided ..please watch it in it's entirity and then post your opinion, till then you just sound close minded and ignorant
 
But i did. Somewhat strange...btw, this guy in the beggining has a very simmiliar voice to dr Breen :D
 
you didnt watch it ..you watched the first minute or so
 
Stop mocking me fool, I did watch them. Both :) And the thing about dinosaurs is a mystery to us all, both science and the Church are striving to find the truth, instead of just bones.
And that guy took every reason he had to blame Christendom for everything wrong.
I can tell you this: what knight during the early middle ages was even able to read? The only one responsible for those crimes is the Roman Catholic Church of those times, and it is aware of that. John Paul II apologized before the masses for those terrible and Antichristian acts which were called the Crusades.
 
Walter said:
Stop mocking me fool, I did watch them.
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lies make baby jesus cry


Walter said:
Both :) And the thing about dinosaurs is a mystery to us all.
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what the hell are you talking about? what mystery?

Walter said:
I suggest you stay away from people like those in the second video, and rather ask a brighter church (like catholic *grin*)
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I went to a catholic high school ..my senior year theology teacher (a catholic priest- jesuit) when asked about the age of the earth in comparison to geological evidence when determining the age of the earth had this as his response:

"how do you know god didnt make it [geological evidence] look like it was millions of years old?"


so no, catholics are not any "brighter" than other christian groups


but back on topic Walter I want you to state the reasons (with examples) as to why the Sam Harris video is "antichristian society blind nonesence"


edit: ok you edited to include this


walter said:
And that guy took every reason he had to blame Christendom for everything wrong.
I can tell you this: what knight during the early middle ages was even able to read? The only one responsible for those crimes is the Roman Catholic Church of those times, and it is aware of that. John Paul II apologized before the masses for those terrible and Antichristian acts which were called the Crusades
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the crusades are very small point in the video ..it's barely worth mentioning ..get to the heart of the matter: what about his statements that religious ignorance should not be tolerated in a progressive society? that people like you drag the rest of society down into a cesspool of ignorance perpetuated by society's inability to call a loon a loon

from hereonin I pledge to redicule anyone who puts forth religious doctrine as fact ..I am tired of the stupids pushing their ignrance on the rest of us ..next person who says "god bless" gets a bloody nose
 
Someone here posted it right. Christianity is dying, and not because people are not going to the church, but because it teaches and does things it's not supposed to. But that's not the reason why people should be angry at Christ and deny Him.
 
Kadayi Polokov said:
There is no all Christians must kill non-believers law in the bible anywhere.
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The Bible said:
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel.
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There is no all Christians must kill non-believers law in the bible anywhere.Murder of anyone is a sin against God
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Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1)If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Death for Blasphemy
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

Kill False Prophets
1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)












Well **** me, but you just got owned by your own damn bible.
 
Walter said:
Someone here posted it right. Christianity is dying, and not because people are not going to the church, but because it teaches and does things it's not supposed to. But that's not the reason why people should be angry at Christ and deny Him.
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people deny christ because they dont believe he was the son of god ....you dont have to be a mental giant to have figured this out ..but I'll state the obvious for your benefit:

non christians dont believe in the bible/christian god



now, please can you stay on topic and comment directly about the video?
 
Solaris

I think you should study about deutronomy and Jesus you lunatic.
 
Religion as a whole is just completely outdated. I'm not saying we should throw out the values that it teaches: many of them are very precious. I'm saying that religion fails to give us these values in an unbiased way. Let society and reason dictate what is right and wrong, instead of a book that is, literally, thousands of years old.
 
The crusades are very small point in the video ..it's barely worth mentioning ..get to the heart of the matter: what about his statements that religious ignorance should not be tolerated in a progressive society? that people like you drag the rest of society down into a cesspool of ignorance perpetuated by society's inability to call a loon a loon
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http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c034.html somewhat of an example answer.
 
I wonder why every Christian critic always points out to deuteronomy or Leviticus...it's meanings were fulfilled by Jesus Christ.
 
omg, please just ignore these retarded topics. These debates lead to nothing but 500 pages of bs and nobody is convincing anyone.
 
Walter said:
I wonder why every Christian critic always points out to deuteronomy or Leviticus...it's meanings were fulfilled by Jesus Christ.
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It's kinda funny that Solaris is the one actually using quotes from the Bible here, and not Walter...

But seriously Walter, as posted before by Absinthe, Jesus didn't invalidate anything - the Old Testament still applies:
Absinthe said:
"The Scripture cannot be broken" (John 10:35)

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." (Matthew 5:18)
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If the majority of Christians don't accept part of the Bible, what gives you the right to decide whether they're true Christians, or not? Do you think ANY OF THEM CARE? They're doing what they believe is right. Religion, like science, changes with time. Admitted, one is based on reason, and the other, blind faith, but neither is set in stone.

Saying that all Christians are scum because a part of the Bible that isn't really believed by them says some crap stuff is straw manning. It's pretty much the same as saying that anyone who supports a nationalised health service promotes the abolition of commerce because they're both socialist concepts.

Mindsets change. People change. Science progresses. So do religious beliefs. You can scream all you want about it, but THESE PEOPLE DON'T CARE IF YOU - AN OUTSIDER - THINK THAT THEY'RE DOING IT WRONG.

-Angry Lawyer
 
Ome_Vince said:
omg, please just ignore these retarded topics. These debates lead to nothing but 500 pages of bs and nobody is convincing anyone.
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did you watch the video? it's about religious moderates; it presents a compelling case as to why religious acceptance allows for the rise of fundamentalism ...not my fault people erroneously use this thread as an excuse to preach from their personal soap box
 
hey, that preaching comes both ways. I watched part of the vid cause I'm extremely busy, I'll watch the rest later on. Its just annoying seeing the "atheist" vs "religious" ppl thread. Try and recall how many people you've convinced with all those hours and pages of debates. You think you can pursuade Walter to become atheist? And visa-versa, can Walter pursuade Mecha or CptSterno to become religious?
Seriously, if you don't believe that, why waste your time?
 
Kadayi Polokov said:
Then you are without merit.
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You can either address what Jesus said or you can keep sitting here like a jackass. Either is fine with me.

at best a guide to the Do's and Don't of desert living 2000+ years ago
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Bingo. The bulk of Christianity is now outdated. Christ is irrelevant. Gutting the religion and only holding onto the parts that have some vague application in the modern world only undermines Christianity further and seriously begs the question of whether or not you're holding onto anachronisms out of some inane principle of tradition.

Angry Lawyer said:
Mindsets change. People change. Science progresses. So do religious beliefs. You can scream all you want about it, but THESE PEOPLE DON'T CARE IF YOU - AN OUTSIDER - THINK THAT THEY'RE DOING IT WRONG.
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The difference between changes in science and religion is that science has a rationale for its adjustments and doesn't claim infallibility. Changes in religion are more often than not made because of science and intellectual modernity. They are reactive to each piece of evidence that undermines teachings of old, consequently abandoning many teachings that are supposed to be from God himself. The "progress" of religion isn't legit. It's merely the reshaping of pseudoscience and irrational thought. And the further you deviate from the fundamental values of religion, the more you shed your Muslism, Christian, or Jewish label. You can't be a Christian if you don't follow Christ.
 
Ome_Vince said:
hey, that preaching comes both ways. I watched part of the vid cause I'm extremely busy, I'll watch the rest later on. Its just annoying seeing the "atheist" vs "religious" ppl thread. Try and recall how many people you've convinced with all those hours and pages of debates. You think you can pursuade Walter to become atheist? And visa-versa, can Walter pursuade Mecha or CptSterno to become religious?
Seriously, if you don't believe that, why waste your time?
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stern it's cpt stern OEM_Vince ..and this isnt a "atheist" vs "religious" thread ..it's a "omfg we need to stop teh religions before it's too late" thread

and yes, walter is beyond help
 
Before its too late? There's been religion/religious beliefs for as long as mankind has been around. Before everybody prayed to the moon-sun-god, and now for a few thousand years to "God". Before what's too late? all of a sudden its apocalypse now? Wouldn't religion have wiped us out by now?
Its another excuse for an "atheists vs religious" thread, all in a new suit, thats all it is.
Your wasting your time..
 
Walter said:
It wasn't broken, it was fulfilled what it was meant to do.
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QFT

Solaris = OWNED

You can pull obscure scripture quoting this that and whatever out of the Old Testament to your hearts content Solaris, but the frank truth is the Ten Commandments and the teachings of Jesus in the NT hold greater weight in terms of correct behaviour than any of the minor OT laws.

The Christian Church had a good 500 or so years of fairly peaceful existence behind it, before the Crusades. Converting nations through the teachings. The Church certainly had the money and the manpower to wage war against the Muslim nations, but they didn't because there was no compunction in the Church to wage war against non-Christians. Thou shalt not kill, and turning the other cheek were the overriding principles.


Absinthe said:
Bingo. The bulk of Christianity is now outdated. Christ is irrelevant. Gutting the religion and only holding onto the parts that have some vague application in the modern world only undermines Christianity further and seriously begs the question of whether or not you're holding onto anachronisms out of some inane principle of tradition.
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I'm not holding onto anything, because I'm frankly not a Christian (never been to a Church in my life to pray..maybe to look at the Architecture a bit). However I did study the Christian religion for two years whilst at college, so unlike some, my understanding is derived from a proper education not a five minute rent a quote study of some anti-Christian websites.

Is the Bible still relevant to modern society? As I said before the vast majority of the OT is pretty much just a do's and don't of day to day living guide for a people living 2500 years ago in Israel. The majority of that stuff can readily be dumped. However when you get down to the core codes, 'thou shall not steal', 'thou shall not Murder', etc then I'd say they retain a lot of relevance, because they provide a tangible set of rules for acceptable behaviour amongst and between peoples, that stands up pretty well. The whole of western society is built upon the moral framework of those core Christian teachings. Through the laws, the education system and the cultural sense of what is socially considered right and wrong behaviour. 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you' is one of the most sensible rules to life going (feel free to argue that one).

The same is true for for all forms of religious instruction/teaching (The Koran, The Tao te Ching, etc). They contain social codes. Without those social codes of behaviour you would be inviting chaos and a descent into the might is right world of the herd animal. You aren't born a human being you are raised to become one through social instruction. Whilst the core codes that religions possess hold some social benefit, then yes I'd say they retain some modern day relevance.

A lot of people talk big about being atheists, but their denial of a god (or gods) doesn't count for much given they are still adhering to the cultural moral codex they have absorbed through life through mimicking the actions and learning from those around them. A true atheist would be like a feral dog, unbounded and unhindered by social rules and moral issues. Such unbounded people do exist, you generally find them in Prison on charges of murder, rape and Child molestation.

Don't get me wrong. I've nothing against Atheists, I'd just like it if they defined themselves in the positive rather than the negative. You don't order a sandwich from a shop by telling the assistant what you don't want in it. Far too many people adopt a reactionary approach of 'I don't believe in a godhead = therefore all this is rejected'.

Absinthe said:
The difference between changes in science and religion is that science has a rationale for its adjustments and doesn't claim infallibility. Changes in religion are more often than not made because of science and intellectual modernity. They are reactive to each piece of evidence that undermines teachings of old, consequently abandoning many teachings that are supposed to be from God himself. The "progress" of religion isn't legit. It's merely the reshaping of pseudoscience and irrational thought. And the further you deviate from the fundamental values of religion, the more you shed your Muslim, Christian, or Jewish label. You can't be a Christian if you don't follow Christ.
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As the entirety of all religious/science arguments focus around the irrelevant dogma (how old the earth is, can Gods existence be proven...can you show me a Neutron? ) rather than the core social codes inherent in the teachings (of Christ, Mohammed, Lao Tzu, etc) there really is no relevance to any debate along those lines. Science certainly can uncover the mysteries of the universe, but it doesn't provide you with the rules to live within that universe at peace with your fellow man. Which is more relevant to most people, proving god doesn't exist or living a fruitful life?
 
Ome_Vince said:
Before its too late? There's been religion for as long as mankind has been around? Before everybody prayed to the moon-sun-god, and now for a few thousand years to "God". Before what's too late? all of a sudden its apocalypse now? Wouldn't religion have wiped us out by now?
Its another excuse for an "atheists vs religious" thread in a new suit, thats all it is.
Your wasting your time, thats all.
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watch the video, you're wasting your time responding to this thread without having watched the video
 
lol, thats your response? I would have expected a less retarded response from you. You go wasting your time on trying to convince people religion = apocalypse now, apparantly your time isn't worth much or else you'd prioritize it better.
 
Ome_Vince said:
lol, thats your response? I would have expected a less retarded response from you. You go wasting your time on trying to convince people religion = apocalypse now, apparantly your time isn't worth much or else you'd prioritize it better.
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You don't think it's worth trying to make people think critically about their religion?

Then that settles it. I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't survive to see a third century.
 
QFT

Solaris = OWNED

You can pull obscure scripture quoting this that and whatever out of the Old Testament to your hearts content Solaris, but the frank truth is the Ten Commandments and the teachings of Jesus in the NT hold greater weight in terms of correct behaviour than any of the minor OT laws.

The Christian Church had a good 500 or so years of fairly peaceful existence behind it, before the Crusades. Converting nations through the teachings. The Church certainly had the money and the manpower to wage war against the Muslim nations, but they didn't because there was no compunction in the Church to wage war against non-Christians. Thou shalt not kill, and turning the other cheek were the overriding principles.
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You know, I'm not exactly sure how you think I was owned. Now I'm not fully independent in this dispute but it would appear to me that:

  1. You said "nowhere does the bible say killing of anyone is okay"
  2. I posted 20 DIRECT quotes from THE BIBLE saying KILLING IS OKAY
You sure have a bit more explaining to do than quoting Walters silly point and saying QFT.
 
Ome_Vince said:
lol, thats your response? I would have expected a less retarded response from you.
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well that's rather harsh ..especially since you didnt watch the video and CANT comment on it with any degree of accuracy

Ome_Vince said:
You go wasting your time on trying to convince people religion = apocalypse now, apparantly your time isn't worth much or else you'd prioritize it better.
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wtf are you talking about? how am I trying to convince anyone that religion is a complete waste of time ..that's pretty much self-evident
 
Absinthe said:
You don't think it's worth trying to make people think critically about their religion?

Then that settles it. I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't survive to see a third century.
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It wouldn't be because of religion, thats for sure. USA isn't in Iraq because of religion, USA isn't in Afghanistan because of religion, Cold War (almost end of the world aye?) wasn't because of religion, WW1 and WW2 weren't because of religion etc etc, there hasn't been a major world war because of religion since the Crusades, so i don't know where this apocalyptic view comes from, other than "o noes theres a few radicals". There's 7 billion people on this planet, most have some sort of religion, and only a hand full are religious nuts => you do know thats a way way way way smaller % than the chance of an average person becoming whack/murderer/dictator/lunatic/criminal right?

Also, "critically about their religion" is 1 thing, attacking all moderate religious people because you think they're retarded reminds me of the good old imperial age where my European forfathers would go oppress and convert so called "Retarded Africans" to their modern Christan beliefs.
Who cares if some Zulu tribe believes in the moon god? Whats it to you? Do they hurt you? If they're not oppressing/hurting/killing anybody because of it, then leave em the **** alone.
Seriously, if you are the one who's going to tell them they're retarded, funny enough burden of proof is on you, just like it is that Christian/Muslim who will debate with you whether or not God exists.
Go to that African mother who's just lost 3 kids due to starvation (due to Western countries dumping their rest-goods in Africa destroying local industries and wealth, and/or raping it for any oil/diamond industry), and tell that mother she is retarded and won't see her kids in Heaven, and that her views cause fundementalism leading to apocalypse now.
Not religion, but pure greed will ruin/destroy this world, just like in the past religion was used for that purpose, today its more visible, and oil-power-whatever greedy purpose will start big-ass wars (if there will ever be). Everything else is just blown up media-hypes.

@stern,
I'm commenting on the obvious debate that's been going on for 6 pages now. 6 pages of pure BS, whatever the full contents of the video are, I'm not commenting on the video, I'm commenting on you and your little hencemen's wasting their time vs religious ppl. If you don't see that, then go sidetracking and stick your head in the ground.
 
Apparently we need Mecha to create a sticky thread about Christian Atheism, with an explanation of the Bible's internal logic.
 
Solaris said:
[*]You said "nowhere does the bible say killing of anyone is okay"
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Actually what I said was:-

"There is no all Christians must kill non-believers law in the bible anywhere."

I'm not entirely sure why you suddenly felt the need to wander in like a half cocked John Wayne and entirely miss the point. Even amongst the bizarro OT shit you dredged up there isn't anything that actually says hey you Christians/jews..go actively hunt down and kill all non-believers or invade their lands to spread the word.
 
Ome_Vince said:
It wouldn't be because of religion, thats for sure. USA isn't in Iraq because of religion, USA isn't in Afghanistan because of religion, Cold War (almost end of the world aye?) wasn't because of religion, WW1 and WW2 weren't because of religion etc etc, there hasn't been a major world war because of religion since the Crusades, so i don't know where this apocalyptic view comes from, other than "o noes theres a few radicals". There's 7 billion people on this planet, most have some sort of religion, and only a hand full are religious nuts => you do know thats a way way way way smaller % than the chance of an average person becoming whack right?
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Destructive global warfare wasn't an issue during the Crusades because there simply wasn't the technology for it. Fast forward to today or even just a few years from now when even the most insanely and dangerously religious nations will have the capability for nuclear warfare, and the context drastically changes. All it takes is a few devout nutjobs with such power to wreak havoc without any regard to their own lives. After all, Heaven's where all the good shit's at, right? Within such religious beliefs is an all too scary eagerness to fire back, if not fire first.

We survived the Cold War because both sides had an innate desire to live. It was their sanity that kept each other from subjecting the world to death and destruction. Religious fundamentalists have far fewer inhibitions. September 11th made that point demonstrably clear. And religious moderation, despite all its best intentions, covers for religious fundamentalism by telling everybody to respect and tolerate their beliefs despite how utterly ****ed up they are.

Also, "critically about their religion" is 1 thing, attacking all moderate religious people because you think they're retarded reminds me of the good old imperial age where my European forfathers would go oppress and convert so called "Retarded Africans" to their modern Christan beliefs.
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...

You better have some good reason to bring up such a retarded comparison. Nobody's converting you. Nobody's putting electrodes to your testicles or threatening your family. Nobody's brainwashing you. There is no oppression. Certainly not from secular (and/or atheistic) humanism.
A few outspoken people are rightly accusing theism as intellectually bankrupt and religious moderation internally illogical. That is a fact. If theists don't like that, then tough shit. They'll have to live with it, just like people who believe in a flat earth will have to deal with being marginalized in any discussion of importance. The time for dealing with religion with kid gloves is over.

Who cares if some Zulu tribe believes in the moon god? Whats it to you? Do they hurt you? If they're not oppressing/hurting/killing anybody because of it, then leave em the **** alone.
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And yet so many religious faiths do oppress, hurt and kill people. At least the two primary forces of Christianity and Islam. Religion is not some benign social construct. It is a powerful force that can severely devalue mortal life. Think of how many people will die because of impediments placed on stem cell research. Think of how many people would die if Al Qaeda got a nuclear bomb.

But nooo, let's not harshly critique religious beliefs! That's just rude! It's improper! It's mean.

Seriously, if you are the one who's going to tell them they're retarded, funny enough burden of proof is on you, just like it is that Christian/Muslim who will debate with you whether or not God exists.
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You misrepresent me. Theists aren't retarded. Theism is retarded. If you finished watching the video (have you?), then you'd hear the part where he points out that it is possible for a man to become so well-educated that he could design and build an atomic bomb and still think he will get 72 virgins. It's the mental partitioning that allows you to solve "2 + 2 =" and still believe in a magical spaceman that lets you into his home after blowing up children.

I believe I and others have fulfilled the burden in proving how religious beliefs are fallacious, inconsistent, and with no basis in reasonable thinking. And if there is eventually a cataclysmic extinction of humanity, religion would certainly be one of the top contenders as the cause.
 
Walter said:
It wasn't broken, it was fulfilled what it was meant to do.

But back to main topic, i've found a nice discussion between Mr. Harris and a gay catholic :O .

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/209/story_20904_2.html
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Walter, instead of just posting links hoping that they'll argue for you actually do some work yourself beyond a Google search, pull out the points that a relevant to the discussion because not all of us can be bothered reading all that.

You're not arguing, you're just posting links and it's getting annoying.
 
Absinthe said:
I believe I and others have fulfilled the burden in proving how religious beliefs are fallacious, inconsistent, and with no basis in reasonable thinking.
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Your belief is mistaken then, because you wholly failed to address any of the points I made earlier on. Until such time as you have fabricated social laws out of scientific theory you'll find that the core social teachings inherent within all religions still serve a purpose within society.
 
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