The Dangers Of The Second System

[clarky003]

thats far more democratic, you may actually beable to call your country a democracey without the haziness if you could pull that off.. but i agree people in general at present are far to lazy, selfish and caught up in the rat race to beable to really care, although Im sure quite alot of us do.

 

[JNightshade]

Bah. Everyone's wrong. The end.

 

[ComradeBadger]

It would be a struggle to implement, it would have to have alot of pre work put in. The structure would be created alongside the current system, then when everythings ready and with enough support, the current state would be ignored and would disintergrate as everyone wouldn't pay taxes to the current state, and no-one would enforce the rules, anyone who does would be classed as a counter revolutionary and be shot on site.

My god. Do you have any idea how nationstates function?

Oh, and General Refurendums just piss the public off.

Oh, and get on Xfire, I have a few points I'd like to bring up.

 

[JNightshade]

Oh, and PWNT.

 

[ComradeBadger]

Who pwned who?

 

[Solaris]

If we can build a democracy where the miners vote for the head of mining, and the teachers elect the head of education we would have public officials who are elected by the people they serve, and are more educated in what there doing instead of being chosen by public opinion, of whom most are ignorant of the nessacary knowledge and experience to elect a proper official.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Yes, but how do you know those people are going to elect the right people and not the people who might, say, pay them more or let them work less? That kind of thing would require an admittedly no-totally-un-possible paradigm shift in general worldview, not to mention a lot of work and organisation.

 

[kirovman]

What miners?

and sulkdodd's point makes sense.

People will inevitably choose what's best for themselves, not what's best for society.

 

[Solaris]

They wouldn't have sole power, but they would be an authority to be reckoned with.

Meh, read a communists manifesto and other readings I'm tired of reciting such works.

 

[kirovman]

Meh, read a communists manifesto and other readings I'm tired of reciting such works.

Ah, finally getting bored with the rhetoric?

 

[ComradeBadger]

Read 'The Open Society And It's Enemies' by Karl Popper and come back

'The Communist Manifesto' and 'The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists' pale in comparison.

Seriously, argue with the points brought up in that book, it makes quite the case in my favour.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

If we can build a democracy where the miners vote for the head of mining, and the teachers elect the head of education we would have public officials who are elected by the people they serve, and are more educated in what there doing instead of being chosen by public opinion, of whom most are ignorant of the nessacary knowledge and experience to elect a proper official.

This is an aspect of Corporatism, not socialism. Two different spectrums. Don't let the name confuse you, it's not about "corporations" IE: McDonalds, the name is based on body corpus, etc and has been around long before most major companies.

It's like saying democracy = capitalism, well no, the election system of leaders does not have to coincide with the economic system of the state. You could have a system like that you just described with very little Marxist influence, or one that has a ton (which you probably support)

It's prominent in Fascism, and is generally accepted as one of the good things (dictatorship and such is bad, but in the way of progress and people actually doing good things, this worked great)

Under fascism in Italy, business owners, employees, trades-people, professionals, and other economic classes were organized into 22 guilds, or associations, known as "corporations" according to their industries, and these groups were given representation in a legislative body known as the Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni. For excerpts from Mussolini's essay discussing the corporatist state, see the "Doctrine of Fascism" on wikipedia.

There have been many corporatist governments throughout history, and many more will probably come and go. If it's done right, it's great. Hopefully more can come and be successful. I think they could work here. Under the House (the House would introduce it's own bills, but ones would also come from below it in the Corporatist Guilds) and the House/Senate would still function the same. The only problem would be finding out which professions to include, which are worthy, how to vote, how to determine who is a worker of each one, etc. It's a huge deal and that's why there are usually appointees and it generally is VERY difficult to maintain democratically.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism#Classical_theoretical_origins