The Danish Cartoon Manifesto

[K e r b e r o s]

Forementioning: This was written by a dear friend I'd like call, Kip. The quoted inside the middle of the Manifesto arguement is from the host site directly that made it. I suggest you visit it.

Manifesto

The western world's reaction to the Danish cartoon controversey has been, quite simply, pathetic, cringing appeasement. Newspapers and other major media refuse to run the cartoons "out of respect and sensitivity" for Islam--a respect and sensitivity that is strangely lacking when any other major religion is involved--and others simply attempt to explain away the riots, the burning down of embassies and hateful pictures such as this as justifiable rage, blaming the victims of this violence instead of the perpetrators... instead of pointing the finger exactly where it belongs--at an Islamic faith increasingly hijacked by radicalism while most of the rest of the world looks on and does little but surrender.

Thankfully, there are some that get it. The following Manifesto was issued within the last couple days, and seems to be starting to garner some momentum:

http://agora.blogsome.com/2006/02/2...hirsi-ali-et-al-slam-islamic-totalitarianism/

After having overcome fascism, Nazism, and Stalinism, the world now faces a new totalitarian global threat: Islamism.

We, writers, journalists, intellectuals, call for resistance to religious totalitarianism and for the promotion of freedom, equal opportunity and secular values for all.

The recent events, which occurred after the publication of drawings of Muhammed in European newspapers, have revealed the necessity of the struggle for these universal values. This struggle will not be won by arms, but in the ideological field. It is not a clash of civilisations nor an antagonism of West and East that we are witnessing, but a global struggle that confronts democrats and theocrats.

Like all totalitarianisms, Islamism is nurtured by fears and frustrations. The hate preachers bet on these feelings in order to form battalions destined to impose a liberticidal and unegalitarian world. But we clearly and firmly state: nothing, not even despair, justifies the choice of obscurantism, totalitarianism and hatred. Islamism is a reactionary ideology which kills equality, freedom and secularism wherever it is present. Its success can only lead to a world of domination: man’s domination of woman, the Islamists’ domination of all the others. To counter this, we must assure universal rights to oppressed or discriminated people.

We reject « cultural relativism », which consists in accepting that men and women of Muslim culture should be deprived of the right to equality, freedom and secular values in the name of respect for cultures and traditions. We refuse to renounce our critical spirit out of fear of being accused of "Islamophobia", an unfortunate concept which confuses criticism of Islam as a religion with stigmatisation of its believers.

We plead for the universality of freedom of expression, so that a critical spirit may be exercised on all continents, against all abuses and all dogmas.

We appeal to democrats and free spirits of all countries that our century should be one of Enlightenment, not of obscurantism.

Emphasis mine. I'd take slight issue with one or two parts of this, but the gist of the message is dead on. We're bending over backwards to appease and accomodate Muslims, offering them respect and tolerance when too often they offer none in return, believing themselves to be superior and that all other cultures and societies should kowtow to them. Tolerance of intolerant cultures and people, in the name of political correctness, socialism, multiculturalism or anti-Americanism is no virture; cultural relativism is not enlightment. It's the sign of a sick society that won't stand up for itself and assert its *own* values or respect its own rights and freedoms; that exercises double-standards between different faiths or groups, that allows one to (literally) get away with murder while holding another to the most exacting, impossible standards.

Check out the signatories at the bottom of the page, and then add my signature to the list as well.

 

[Flyingdebris]

I like the cut of their gib

 

[K e r b e r o s]

I agree. I'm hoping news of this spreads. Thought I'd share it with the forums! :thumbs:

 

[Solaris]

After having overcome fascism, Nazism, and Stalinism, the world now faces a new totalitarian global threat: Islamism.

Absolutely outragous, f****g appauling. Comparing Islam with the Nazis, thats f****g low.

 

[Gray Fox]

I agree with what you wrote after the quote, and with some of the quoted text.

Absolutely outragous, f****g appauling. Comparing Islam with the Nazis, thats f****g low.

It's not low, it's right on the spot, a lot of muslims may not be radicals, but they do support them, just like many people who voted for the nazis may not have been as extreme but still supported them, just like the nazis they always make themselves the victim, just like nazis they gloirify violance and use it to solve their problems, just like the nazis they want to bend other nations and culutures to their will. There is a lot of similiarities. Hell a lot of the (radicals)muslims even openly support nazis and what they did against the jews, palestina is full of swastikas.

 

[French Ninja]

Absolutely outragous, f****g appauling. Comparing Islam with the Nazis, thats f****g low.

No it isn't.
The article references that the radical Muslims, the ones calling for the death of America/the West/Israel, the ones you support, are forming a new type of totalitarian government; one that combines distorted religion and fear of Western influence.

Danish Cartoon Manifesto ftw.

 

[Solaris]

I agree with what you wrote after the quote, and with some of the quoted text.


It's not low, it's right on the spot, a lot of muslims may not be radicals, but they do support them, just like many people who voted for the nazis may not have been as extreme but still supported them, just like the nazis they always make themselves the victim, just like nazis they gloirify violance and use it to solve their problems, just like the nazis they want to bend other nations and culutures to their will. There is a lot of similiarities. Hell a lot of the (radicals)muslims even openly support nazis and what they did against the jews, palestina is full of swastikas.

Palestine isn't full of swastikas. Very few Muslims support the radicals, the Muslim council of Birtian condems them, and that represents the majority of Muslims in britan.

 

[Gray Fox]

Palestine isn't full of swastikas. Very few Muslims support the radicals, the Muslim council of Birtian condems them, and that represents the majority of Muslims in britan.

A lot of photo's I see of palestinian cities is palestinians sitting besides walls painted in swastikas, plus a book supporting and/or excusing the nazis is en enourmous hit in islamic world, a lot of muslims in the ME deny the holocaust.
And as far as i know not many muslims condemm the radical, not many dondemmed the violant protests against the cartoons, and if the radicals did not have such great support by many muslims, then why are they in power in the ME, why the enormous protests, those protests could not have been that big and that many without the support of the majority of the muslims.

As far as i can see the the Muslim council of Birtian is just as bad as the radicals

 

[Lemonking]

Absolutely outragous, f****g appauling. Comparing Islam with the Nazis, thats f****g low.

I think you have brain matter loss,just like fox said its right on the spot

 

[Solaris]

As far as i can see the the Muslim council of Birtian is just as bad as the radicals

Frome the article you posted

At the same time, the MCB regards the violent threats made against Danish and EU citizens by some groups in the Muslim world as completely unacceptable and displaying an utter disregard of basic Islamic injunctions on how to resolve disagreements and differences.

 

[OvA]

A little harsh maybe, but correct nonetheless

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Absolutely outragous, f****g appauling. Comparing Islam with the Nazis, thats f****g low.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/truth4.jpg - I don't need to compare, they do it for me
http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/images/Nazi Salute in Palestine_jpg_jpg_jpg.jpg - Some more
http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/images/new8_jpg.jpg - Mufti with NAZI War Criminals
http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/images/new7_jpg.jpg - Mufti dining with NSDAP Officials
http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/images/mufti_jpg.jpg - More of his occasions
http://photos5.flickr.com/7125959_4a7a01f89b.jpg - Palestinian Militants give NAZI Salute
http://homepage.mac.com/cfj/.Pictures/hezbollahnazis2.jpg - Hezbollahs give NAZI Salute
http://www.cornermark.com/hiddenfolder/enemies/hezbollah_hamas_nazi_salute.jpg - Hamas and Bezbollah give Nazi Salute
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/truth.jpg - Palestinians decorating their landscapes with NAZI Flags

http://pmw.org.il/asx/PMW_HolocaustENG.asx - Palestinian Authority denies Holocaust
http://pmw.org.il/asx/PMW_MadiHolocaust.asx - Palestinian extremists claims Holocaust caused by the Jews (Just like my former friend, whose a complete white supremacist said)

Solaris, why not compare them?

 

[Gray Fox]

Frome the article you posted

Well I can understand if you see that as them condemming radicals, and proof that they are not, but to me that article proves that their goals and ideas match those of the radicals, which are themselves radical, now they may condemm them for the violance, but in essance they want the same thing just not trough violance. Which makes them pretty radical in my mind. But nontheless that they do not use violance is a very very good sighn, however they do not represent the majority of the muslims in the world as far as i can see.

 

[Solaris]

Well I can understand if you see that as them condemming radicals, and proof that they are not, but to me that article proves that their goals and ideas match those of the radicals, which are themselves radical, now they may condemm them for the violance, but in essance they want the same thing just not trough violance. Which makes them pretty radical in my mind. But nontheless that they do not use violance is a very very good sighn, however they do not represent the majority of the muslims in the world as far as i can see.

All they do in that article is ask the paper to apologize, and to condem thoose who would use violence.

Tell me, does the Bush adminsitraton represent most Christians?
And I could post hundreds of posters of christians with God hates fags signs and such rubbish, but it wouldn't prove anything becuase individual people cannot soley be used to represent a religion.

 

[Gray Fox]

All they do in that article is ask the paper to apologize, and to condem thoose who would use violence.

Tell me, does the Bush adminsitraton represent most Christians?
And I could post hundreds of posters of christians with God hates fags signs and such rubbish, but it wouldn't prove anything becuase individual people cannot soley be used to represent a religion.

They can if their ideas are supported by a majority, and in the case with islamic radicals they are, most muslims agree with their ideas and their ways, imam reguraly even herein holland preach about hate against the very societies that tolerate them, against gays, and in support of radicals.
And asking for an apology for beeing critical and exposing muslim radicals ideas, which is what those cartoons do, is a sign of inntolerance, and radicalism.

Now you can post dozens of quotes from hatefull christians and budists, but that won't mean much, even if they are from influencal people, simply cause their ideas have been rejected by the majority of christian and budhist people.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

And I could post hundreds of posters of christians with God hates fags signs and such rubbish, but it wouldn't prove anything becuase individual people cannot soley be used to represent a religion.

Unfortunately, we know that difference. Christians who know they are different from the rest admit it so, instead of being silent and quitely helping the religiously extreme. They don't tote around Kalishnikov Rifles out in public amungst other people, and threaten the world with Jihad unless it helps them to exterminate, "Fags, Jews, Spics etc."

This is not the case in Islam, which has been acknowledged almost world wide to have been hijacked. I'm not blaiming the religion, but the people behind it fostering the hate nessecary for it to breath and gain supporters. I have'nt heard of Christian extremist groups suicide bombing themselves into crowds of innocent people.

These are things attributed with the terrorism program that shields itself under the guise of Islam. It can be compared to Nazis. It vies for the racial superiority (eliminate the westerners and the jews) and the sexual superiorty (destroy those that are handicapped, mentally retarded, or gay) that the Nazis sought.

Saddam Huesseins own father walked amungst the NSDAP in its late years. Same with the father of Abu Masab Al-Zarqwai, and his older brothers and sisters.

They can be compared to Nazis because they share roughly the same idealeogy. I have yet to come accross a Christian who is actively out their shooting gays and jews. Your right. Your posting of pictures would be flawed. Its well known that Catholics and Christians don't go out of the way to ruin and kill people in suicide attacks that they don't agree with. They don't behead, capture, and mock execute people that are different from them. Most of its just freedom of speech, and not the reputation of brutal mass killings that would follow soon afterward in the case of Hijacked Islam and terrorist led countries.

You of all people, a Brittainer, should know this well from Hitlers Blitz. Surely your parents talked of it? An accidental bomb fell on London, and the Nazis were all about obliterating it. That is the comparitive measure of their resolve and Hijacked terror led Islams. Destroy what is different. Destroy the jews. Its all a political scapegoat, a feigned reason for them to escape the responsibility of fixing their own nations away from this murderous legend of propaganda.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

They are right, but their invention of the term "Islamism" is problematic. It makes it appear as though they dislike islamic people in general, and not just the radicals.

If they actually do dislike all islamic people, that's just stupid.

 

[NotATool]

Some of you forget we have millions of muslims in the United States who don't go waving AKs around and function as an essential part of our society.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

They are right, but their invention of the term "Islamism" is problematic. It makes it appear as though they dislike islamic people in general, and not just the radicals.

If they actually do dislike all islamic people, that's just stupid.

Islamism has been used for years here in reference to fundamentalists and crazies, or people who use it as a tool for their means. Not always terrorist actions either but things like the riots or to stay in power just by tooling it. Like the guy who went to the middle east with more fake cartoons to stir up hatred.

Islamists is useful as a word actually because it is FAR better to use than Muslim. A muslim can be a good person, an Islamist is a specific example of a bad muslim.

 

[Lemonking]

Some of you forget we have millions of muslims in the United States who don't go waving AKs around and function as an essential part of our society.

those are the good ones,the ones that have been asimalated

 

[The Monkey]

Is it just me that find arab nazis pretty ignorant? I mean, even more that regular nazis. If they had lived in the Third Reich they would've been send to the showers straight away.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

Fight the isalmic extremist retards with all of your comical power!

 

[Solaris]

They can if their ideas are supported by a majority, and in the case with islamic radicals they are, most muslims agree with their ideas and their ways, imam reguraly even herein holland preach about hate against the very societies that tolerate them, against gays, and in support of radicals.
And asking for an apology for beeing critical and exposing muslim radicals ideas, which is what those cartoons do, is a sign of inntolerance, and radicalism.

Asking for an apologie after someone made fun of them is not to much to ask. It is not radical, it is not extreme.

Now you can post dozens of quotes from hatefull christians and budists, but that won't mean much, even if they are from influencal people, simply cause their ideas have been rejected by the majority of christian and budhist people.

Yet the f****rs were still voted into power? By a majority?

Please, and your getting close to the line of racist here. Saying the majority of Muslims support such violent actions is blatently not true. I go to school with Muslims ever day, I see them in the shops, I talk to them. You however in your close notted little White American town, think you know the first things about Muslims?

Well you don't.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

They are right, but their invention of the term "Islamism" is problematic. It makes it appear as though they dislike islamic people in general, and not just the radicals.

If they actually do dislike all islamic people, that's just stupid.

As usual, Mecha wins.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Gray Fox]

Asking for an apologie after someone made fun of them is not to much to ask. It is not radical, it is not extreme.

Yet the f****rs were still voted into power? By a majority?

Please, and your getting close to the line of racist here. Saying the majority of Muslims support such violent actions is blatently not true. I go to school with Muslims ever day, I see them in the shops, I talk to them. You however in your close notted little White American town, think you know the first things about Muslims?

Well you don't.

They want an apology for cartoons critizising extremists misuse of the prophet. Thats pretty ****ing extreme, and i will let you know that I live in Holland, to be more precise in Rotterdam, where 2/3 of the people are from foreign origin or have parents from foreign countries, so I do interact a lot with muslims. Now there is a good deal of them that do support radicals and especially their ideas, there is a lot of them who believe that the rest of society should conform to them and not the other way around, there are numerous very popular imams here who openly glorify terrorist, And even if it wasn't so, even if a lot of muslims here weren't like that it wouldn't mean jack shit. Cause the majority of muslims live in the ME and in south east asia, where radicals and all of their ideas are supported and embraced by the majority of society. So your argument that that because you know a lot of muslims and they are not radical is flawed, simply because the majority of muslims is not represented by the MCB, not your little club of friends.

 

[Solaris]

They want an apology for cartoons critizising extremists misuse of the prophet. Thats pretty ****ing extreme, and i will let you know that I live in Holland, to be more precise in Rotterdam, where 2/3 of the people are from foreign origin or have parents from foreign countries, so I do interact a lot with muslims. Now there is a good deal of them that do support radicals and especially their ideas, there is a lot of them who believe that the rest of society should conform to them and not the other way around, there are numerous very popular imams here who openly glorify terrorist, And even if it wasn't so, even if a lot of muslims here weren't like that it wouldn't mean jack shit. Cause the majority of muslims live in the ME and in south east asia, where radicals and all of their ideas are supported and embraced by the majority of society. So your argument that that because you know a lot of muslims and they are not radical is flawed, simply because the majority of muslims is not represented by the MCB, not your little club of friends.

Only becuase there raped by every oppertunity by the west. Who would want to be democratic when democracy has killed your parents in Iraq, you children in Iran, and occupies your home in Palestine.

 

[Ome_Vince]

One of the cartoons posted by Mr-Fusian has a really good point.
-Terrorists abuse Muhammed the prophet and Allah for mass murder on 9/11
-Terrorists abuse Allah and Muhammed for bombings in Europe, etc
-Then 1 "disbeliever" makes a cartoon rediculing these terrorists and their attitudes and millions of Muslims riot and billions agree its an outrage and the whole west should apologise.

Now you tell me whats more offensive for Islam -> a Danish "infidel" making a cartoon (which Jews, Christians etc endure daily) or mass murder in the name of a relatively peacefull religion/prophet?

I would have so loved to see these riots, uprises and protests + outrage after the 9/11 terrorist attacks shouting and cheering "you have abused Muhammed and offended Allah" instead of the silent "they had it coming" answer or the parties on the streets in Palestina..

Im from Holland to, and there's a saying here: "zwijgen is toestemmen" -> silence means you agree..

And Solaris i live amongst Muslims too, and have visited the middle-east often and know "they are not all like that".
But to prevent 90% of the future world from thinking so i suggest they riot and rise up against these fundementalists instead of a silly cartoon..

The Danes owe NO apology for they have done NOTHING wrong. Rather that Imam from Denmark inciting this revolt owes the world an apology.

 

[Solaris]

The Danish Paper has done nothing wrong?
Look at this cartoon
That probably offends every Muslim, and I guess it's radical for Muslims to ask for an apology. So I could write: "Jews are Bastards" "Christians are ****wards" and anything else that could offend anyone, and if anyone asked for an apology, it would be radical of them?

So in school if I hit someone and the teacher tells me to apologise, there radical fundamentalists? God help us then, the education system has been serious infiltrated by these "Evil manners having" radicals.

 

[Ome_Vince]

So in school if I hit someone and the teacher tells me to apologise, there radical fundamentalists?

See and THATS where you are mistaken, for "hit" is something else than "a mock about extremists".
Punching somebody is completely different then calling him an asshole.
If i call my neighbour an asshole = legal, if i punch him on the nose i get arrested -> illegal.

Making a mocking cartoon on extremists is legal. If somebody is offended thats great, people are offended all the time. If they start rioting and burning stuff down and also kill people, THEN they are extremists and WRONG.

 

[Gray Fox]

Only becuase there raped by every oppertunity by the west. Who would want to be democratic when democracy has killed your parents in Iraq, you children in Iran, and occupies your home in Palestine.

That is true. And it certainly has added and feuled extremism. But do not forget that the unfair treatment if germany by the allies also feuled support the nazis, now I can certainly understand why some people supported them as I can see why some support radical muslims.
But listen, a lot of things that the majority of muslims got angry over, like the cartoons do not have anything to do with what the west economicly or politicly does with the middle east, a lot of ideas that are supported by the majority of the people there, all the intolerance has no cause in the treatment of the middle east by the west. And a lot of those ideas are on par if not worse then what the nazis had, so I can certainly see why people would compare the threat of islamism to the treat of nazism. When you see extremesit beheading the very people from teh west that came their to aid them, that opposed the war in Iraq, and those same extremist glorified by imams, then you have to ask yourself, are they anti western policies against the middle east, or are they simply against our very way of life, against our culuture, are they just bent on killing us no matter what. Today Islam is the religion who's members show the least of tolerance to other religions and cultures.

 

[Solaris]

Today Islam is the religion who's members show the least of tolerance to other religions and cultures.

America a christian nation, seems so intent on spreading its way of life it invades the middle east.

 

[Ome_Vince]

hehe, if it did that then Iraq would be forced to convert to Christianity wouldnt it?.
Its also funny that America invaded Iraq and yet you generalize it to "the middle east". What more middle-eastern countries did America invade to "spread its way of life"??

 

[Solaris]

hehe, if it did that then Iraq would be forced to convert to Christianity wouldnt it?.
Its also funny that America invaded Iraq and yet you generalize it to "the middle east". What more middle-eastern countries did America invade to "spread its way of life"??

Afganistan, Palestine. It also got intimatly invlolved in f*****g up Iran as well.

 

[Gray Fox]

hehe, if it did that then Iraq would be forced to convert to Christianity wouldnt it?.
Its also funny that America invaded Iraq and yet you generalize it to "the middle east". What more middle-eastern countries did America invade to "spread its way of life"??

Listen the west has long supported oppresive regimes all over the world ,and the middle east, when he says we rape them it does not necesairly relate to Iraq, the west support a lot of regimes thet suppres religion and are intolerant, and who provide us with cheap labor and natural recources. Mind you it's not that simple, cause the alternative would not be mush better, in some cases even worse. We live in a gray world.

 

[Ome_Vince]

Afganistan, Palestine. It also got intimatly invlolved in f*****g up Iran as well.

Palestine? WTF when did the USA invade or **** Palestine???
Last i read they even fund the Palestinians!
Afghanistan was legit, thats the only war i supported.
Iran did a pretty good job in ****ing up itself...

Seems like you blame all the worlds problems on the USA, how simple that is, kind of reminds me of what a true fundementalist would do: find a patsie and blame everything on them.

People are responsible for there own actions, as the US is responsible for their actions, so are others responsible for theirs.
And how is America "spreading its way of life" by: Iran's islamic revolution, Afghanistan's support for Terrorism and Bin Laden? Did any of those countries convert to Christianity or are part of the USA now? No...


Ontopic:
I'd like to know how the US is responsible for the Islams outrage over Danish cartoons...

 

[Solaris]

Palestine? WTF when did the USA invade or **** Palestine???

Its funds thoughs who do so

Last i read they even fund the Palestinians!

At a ratio of about 100:1 in favour of Isreal

Afghanistan was legit, thats the only war i supported.

Sigh

Iran did a pretty good job in ****ing up itself...

The US otherthrough it's democratically elected government.

 

[Ome_Vince]

Here we go again.
The USA and Israel = Evil debate again.

Its funds thoughs who do so

So let me see if i get your point: America is spreading its way of life by funding those who **** Palestinians? Nice.. LOL

At a ratio of about 100:1 in favour of Isreal

Its called Defence budget. And im glad they do, cause the Muslim world would have otherwise destroyed Israel 4 times by now.

The US otherthrough it's democratically elected government.

So thats spreading the American Christian "way of life" by letting an Islamic fundementalism happen?

You seem to mix "understand" with "justify". I can understand a normal Muslim to be angry at the USA, hell i'd be too. But its still WRONG to see the world Black&White. Thats something fundementalists do.
And its even MORE WRONG to blame the WHOLE WEST and get angry over some random newspaper cartoons while there are more important things raping the Islam -> the terrorists who smeer Allah with violance and mass-murder in the name of Islam.
I'd see that as a much bigger thing to be pissed about...

 

[Laivasse]

They are right, but their invention of the term "Islamism" is problematic. It makes it appear as though they dislike islamic people in general, and not just the radicals.

If they actually do dislike all islamic people, that's just stupid.

I actually first noticed the terms 'Islamism' and 'Islamist' being used on the news here a while ago, when they were talking about fundamentalists, extremists, Islamic terrorists, etc.

I'm not too sure myself how good a term it is, but I think in the eyes of the media it's supposed to work as a politically correct term which makes a distinction between the muslim extremists who misuse Islam, and the average muslim in the street. It's kind of like saying that extremists and muslim terrorists are only Islam-ish, or at least I think that's the desired effect of those who use the term.

BTW Solaris, your arguments are all over the place. None of this has anything to do with how naughty America is.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Asking for an apologie after someone made fun of them is not to much to ask. It is not radical, it is not extreme.

Unfortunately, that came after the riots, which means to me either they were preparing a very complicated "I demand an apology" speech, or they were cockily waiting for the Riots to end to imply if an apology was not received, the riots would reoccur with the same violence.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, they took awhile for that demand, they waited for the Riots to soften up the Western Worlds outlook on Comical Cartoons and the humor they often bring. Then of course, after the bad riots and during some of the small piddley ones did they ask for an apology.

That be like if I punched you in the face, and you demanded an apology only after you punched me. Two wrongs, don't make a right.

Please understand that I equivelate the cartoons and the riots as punches because to me, thats what they were. Social jabs at two entirely different sets of people simply due to their political culture or religion.

Yet the f****rs were still voted into power? By a majority?

Solaris, first, what do you have against the Christian religion?

Just because our militaries Commander in Chief happens to be a Christian does'nt mean his invasions are because of his religion. Same goes with other countries -- has the Pope invaded Italy yet? Nope.

Also, the Christian people did'nt all vote conservative. It was a well known fact that the Conservatives only gained a 20% religious vote. Where's the other 80%?

I can tell you that quite easily. People were voting for him to be in power a second term not because of his Religion, but maybe because they thought him being an idiot or a wisecrack was a pure comedy goldmine and that congress needed a good laugh.

Consider other reasons besides the religious ones. Those are'nt what drove the elections. If religious overtones were what drove the elections, how come John Kerry was'nt voted into office? He was a Catholic? Why not a Catholic? Or a buddist for that matter?

Why not? Because people were'nt considering Bush nor Kerry for strictly religious reasons, and those that did, kinda sold out on some of the wrong people.

Only becuase there raped by every oppertunity by the west.

Solaris, your taking your Palestinian TV Agenda way out there man. I don't rape the middle east, Mecha Godzilla does'nt rape the middle east. No one here, apart of Western Culture and society heck, even neighbors to its mainstream, do not partake on anal sodomizing Middle Eastern culture.

It's ethics, and how it executes people, maybe, but its culture, heck no.

Who would want to be democratic when democracy has killed your parents in Iraq, you children in Iran, and occupies your home in Palestine.

You're becoming a mouth piece for extremists. I'd just like to point that out. These very extremists who justify the killing of Israeli children on school buses. Who ambushed and beat up Jewish kids on there way to school.

For people who want to know what Solaris watches, visit this webpage here: Extremist to the extreme. ---> http://www.pmw.org.il/

Afganistan, Palestine. It also got intimatly invlolved in f*****g up Iran as well.

You joker! America has not invaded Palestine! By the way, Palestinian roughly translates as 'Sea Invader'. Look it up for yourself over Wikipedia.

As for ****ing up Iran, no, Iran is ****ing itself up. I agree. Allowing a country in Asia to have a Nuclear Weapons program over persay Iran is a little bit hypocritical. But you must remember how they judge who gets Nukes and who does'nt. It's all about responsibility.

And then again, its not about Nukes, its about Nuclear Power plants! If it was in your hands, and America did'nt have a Nuclear Power Plant or Weapons program yet it was widely known to be extremist and imperialistic, would you... give us weapons?

I'll answer for you: No. And thats my point with Iran. Iraq, unjustified. But Afghanistan, justified. We went after Bin Laden there, and some of you Kookoo's just don't get why troop numbers are higher in Iraq then in Afghanistan! Iraq = Larger country in population. Larger Cities then Afghanistan. Formerly, had a much LARGER army then Afghanistan.

It's not that Bin Laden does'nt have importance, its just there was no real fight to protect him.

America a christian nation, seems so intent on spreading its way of life it invades the middle east.

I don't think it was its way of life. Uncle Sam can masterbate all over the middle east for all I care, but we know damn well Iraq had other reasons. I believe Abu Masab Al-Zarqwai justified our rush more so then So-damn Insane. (Saddam Huessein).

In any case, that loon is out of power, the very loon who helped to power Hamas and the Fatah carry out attrocities against Jewish Civilians.

Its funds thoughs who do so

Still Solaris, not the samething. It funds the Israelis over Palestine because Israel has been invaded over what, 11 different times by more then 8 Middle Eastern countries all intent on massacring its entire population.

Plus, the Europeans scorned the Jews out of Europe and even encouraged them to go back to Palestine. Hitler executed 6 million Jews just to get that point accross.

My point here is this: The Jews never formed Israel out of sheer Malice against their Arab neighbors, quite the opposite. They formed Israel to rally against the British funded Arab Legion who was vowing to whipe them clean out from the Middle East.

What do you say to this? You can't ignore it, its history!

At a ratio of about 100:1 in favour of Isreal

I'm not going to draw straws like you did about our country in terms of it funding Israel. Need I remind you that it funds the underdog in this conflict, and the overlords?

Finally, I'd just like to say this. At least we try to help it. As for that ratio, its because 1 out of those 100 is not an extremist organization intent on watching Israel or the West burn.

The US otherthrough it's democratically elected government.

Socialism never worked in the middle east or America, if thats what your trying to say.