The death of a Legacy....

[CyberPitz]

Found this on totalbf2.com Good read IMHO

http://totalbf2.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88243

 

[Ennui]

I just read it, though I completely did not intend to before I started... okay read, but it was too incendiary at the end. I play Battlefield 2 from time to time, and I've been playing the Battlefield franchise for the duration of its existence - BF1942, BFV, DC, DCF, BF2 - and while his argument and message was strong to start with, when he started complaining about how he felt insulted because they added new features in new patches, it pretty much destroyed what leverage he had.

Still, a decent read.

 

[xombine]

Very interesting read. He puts it all in perspective and a timeline which shows how stupid some of the moves EA makes really are.

 

[Parlez]

LONG LIVE BF2! IMHO there is always going to be people playing BF2 no matter how old it gets. Just like some of the older online games that are free to play now. Some people just cant stop. But yes it is a nice read I kinda skimmed through the last few paragraphs.

 

[Gray Fox]

Overdramatizing bullshit, bf2 is not going to die just because some twats keep complaining untill there is nothing more left then one gun, one playerclass, no vehicles, every shot is a 1 hit kill and there only one symetricly mirrord map.
EA has done some dum thinghs, but bf2 problems are mostly caused by it's horrible community.

 

[Absinthe]

Overdramatizing bullshit, bf2 is not going to die just because some twats keep complaining untill there is nothing more left then one gun, one playerclass, no vehicles, every shot is a 1 hit kill and there only one symetricly mirrord map.

Did you even read the thing?

Any way, I agree with everything he said. I stopped spending money on the franchise when I realized I was getting continually reamed by EA in the BF1942 era. The rant against the new content may seem silly, but it isn't. Such additions are diversions from addressing the real and constant problems that plague their games - shiny objects that make the players momentarily forget how incompetent EA is dealing with every other aspect. And if they break the game even more, it doesn't matter. It's hauling more cargo onto an already sinking ship.

You'd have to be an idiot to not see that the BF franchise has been turned into a shameless cash cow. The expansions and "booster packs" are indicative of this in the most obvious way, and now we have a brand spanking new sequel on the horizon while the player base of the last two ****ing generations are still getting gipped.

But unfortunately, this isn't the death of a legacy. At least not yet. BF2142 will roll right around and everybody will forgive and forget past transgressions only to have history repeat itself over the next few years. The fanbase has proven itself to be very fickle, or at least those who endure the bullshit perpetually and declare a boycott on EA before purchasing the next hot new sequel.

ADDED: I also find the analysis of EoD and BFV to be fairly compelling. EoD is/was an ace mod, and I have no doubt that it was EA's intention to cut that shit at the bud.

 

[Gray Fox]

I have read the whole thing and I do not agree.
I'm not somebody to easly fall for marketing bullshit, I do not stroll around with an Ipod, hell I even bought ep 1 with 3 other people, to share the money because I did not think it was worth it, I have not bought any expansion or booster. I have only played on ranked servers for like 3 or 4 times before realizing that it wasn't worth it and I was quite concerned what it would do to mods since.

But to begin with, the game was fine, it was done adequatly enough for a release, it had bugs, but for most people the game worked fine, like for me.
The gameplay needed some balancing, but by far the biggest problem was the community and it has always been the biggest problem. I've seen a lot of threads demanding this demanding that and hate and anger at EA/dice, and when EA/dice finally nerfed this or boosted that the same people that wanted the change bitched about it even more.
Fact is a lot of people have very very ****ed up ideas of what this game should be, fact is this game has an incredible amount of options and freedom of action which means there are always gonna be a lot of ways to annoy people.

Fact is when people get outdone by better strategy instead of try to learn from it and get better, they just endlessly complain and bitch untill something or somewhat gets nerfed. They bitch and bitch and bitch without thinking about the consequences and when EA/Dice give in, the consequences slam them then in the face fater and harder then a bullet train. And what do they do then, they bitch and they mone. David Sirlin has a good article on then and why they **** up games http://www.sirlin.net/archive/playing-to-win-part-1/

Fact is a lot of people are trying to play this game in way way outdated hardware and without proper drivers. I have seen many people bitch and many problem solved by simply driver updated.

Fact is I am not new to BF2 I have been a member of the totalbf2 community since before the game came out, I have played the game and been and seen all kinds of post, threads and reaction.

Fact is, EA has updated the game untill version 1.4, with many patches in between, which more then most companies do, the biggest problem has like always been giving in to the demands of the idiots.

Adding new stuff is cool and fun and very much appriciated.

 

[Slacker]

ADDED: I also find the analysis of EoD and BFV to be fairly compelling. EoD is/was an ace mod, and I have no doubt that it was EA's intention to cut that shit at the bud.

It disgusts me that they did too, EoD was twice the game that Battlefield Vietnam was, I'd say it was even more fun than BF1942 or Desert Combat...Here's to hoping that the team still does a mod of it for BF2.

 

[Absinthe]

I have read the whole thing and I do not agree.

Then you'd know it has nothing to do with having "nothing more left then one gun, one playerclass, no vehicles, every shot is a 1 hit kill and there only one symetricly mirrord map."

If you disagree with what he's saying, then fine. But do not flagrantly misrepresent his words. You're still doing it. This has **** all to do with nerfing or any of that shit. It's about EA/Dice's absolutely abysmal relationship with its customers and quality control. The poster's argument is that EA has successively abandoned/ignored their broken games once a new product is in the pipe, and that they have pratically waged war against a significant portion of the mod community. It's not some inane gameplay rant.

 

[Gray Fox]

Then you'd know it has nothing to do with having "nothing more left then one gun, one playerclass, no vehicles, every shot is a 1 hit kill and there only one symetricly mirrord map."

If you disagree with what he's saying, then fine. But do not flagrantly misrepresent his words. You're still doing it. This has **** all to do with nerfing or any of that shit. It's about EA/Dice's absolutely abysmal relationship with its customers and quality control. The poster's argument is that EA has successively abandoned/ignored their broken games once a new product is in the pipe, and that they have pratically waged war against a significant portion of the mod community. It's not some inane gameplay rant.

I don't see at as misrepresentig his words at all, he go's on and on how the game is broken and still many issues not fixed, the game was fine, it has been been updated many times, most problems have been fixed. He rediculus rant seems to indicate that he isone of the idiots that keeps and keeps complainig about every little thing. Saying that it's not an inane gamplay rant is not fair, it may not be only about that but a significant portion seems to be, and a lot of his arguments rely on the reader agreeing with him that this game/gameplay was broken, is still broken and has not been fixed nor has ea/dice tried to fix it. Which they have clearly sought to do, and looking at his comments on EA's updated reenforces my believe in what kind of person he is even more.

As far as EA waging war with a significant portion oft he mod community. Well what is there to argue about, he has not provided any solid evidance for that nor any logical reasons to assume that, only his own pathetic selfserving hatred for some reason. BF:V was simply made because vietnam was in, in that time. I see no reason why the EOD team stopped their mod, especially if it was supposed to be a lot better then BF:V. Why would EA releasing BF:V mean they waged wear agains the modding community, Vietnam was in, and EA and mod teams picked up on that. If Bf2 was so bad why didn't the majority just return to DC? Everyone had a chance to play the Bf2 demo before it's release, if it was so bugged and broken, why buy the game?
If EA's past record was so bad, why trust them to fix the "bugs"you encounterd and still buy the game?

As far as I can see EA has not waged a war against the mod community at all, infact they left bf2 open for modding and even bought out trauma studios, maing them a fully paid professional studio. Thats great as far as I see. The only thing that counters mods and player created maps is the ranking system.
But that was in the game because of greed not because of some war with mods.

Fact is there are a lot of people who will buy 2142 if it's good because thye are satisfied with dice/EA, had a lot of fun bf2, DC, BF:V, BF 1942, and not because they are a bunch of idiots incapable of learning from their past mistakes.

 

[$kelet0r]

you're more forgiving than most Gray Fox - DICE really are a very flawed operation, to the detriment of their products and the paying customer

 

[Gray Fox]

Can you honestly say that most of the negatieve gameplay changes brought by the patches were not done because of the unreasonable demands of the community. Now i do not know how much time you spent on the totalbf2 forum, but if you came there once a day like i I was and saw all the threads I did I bet you would act the same way.

Besides how can EA/dice releasing so many patches not indicate a willingness to fix the few bugs and some balance issues the game had.

 

[Stigmata]

I suppose you could argue that DICE caters too much to the wishes of the community. If they've changed all sorts of things just because people said they didn't like them, only for said elements to turn out even worse post-patch, then DICE should learn to make decisions that go against the wants of the playing community if it means the game will retain its quality.

 

[Gray Fox]

Agreed.

 

[Absinthe]

I don't see at as misrepresentig his words at all, he go's on and on how the game is broken and still many issues not fixed, the game was fine, it has been been updated many times, most problems have been fixed. He rediculus rant seems to indicate that he isone of the idiots that keeps and keeps complainig about every little thing. Saying that it's not an inane gamplay rant is not fair, it may not be only about that but a significant portion seems to be, and a lot of his arguments rely on the reader agreeing with him that this game/gameplay was broken, is still broken and has not been fixed nor has ea/dice tried to fix it. Which they have clearly sought to do, and looking at his comments on EA's updated reenforces my believe in what kind of person he is even more.

Read it again. He is not arguing about the gameplay mechanics.
Read it again. He is not arguing about the gameplay mechanics.
Read it again. He is not arguing about the gameplay mechanics.

I said that three times for the emphasis. I repeat, he is not arguing about the gameplay mechanics. He is not arguing about imbalances. He is not arguing about weapon selection. He is not arguing about maps. He is arguing about persistent bugs, performance issues, the tremendously overt money-milking process, the division of the player base, the squashing of the mod community, and EA/Dice's apparent inability (or unwillingness) to address issues that have plagued their games since the beginning. If you take any issue with any of that (which you clearly do), then fine. But this is not whining about "every little thing". These are prominent problems with the handling of the game, and you'd have to be blind or inexperienced if you can't recognize it.

There is a very distinct difference between what you are talking about and what he is, and so I'd be careful about calling him an idiot if you're not comprehending his words. Your first and subsequent posts demonstrate this fully.

 

[Gray Fox]

First Absinthe you are ignoring a large portion of my whole post and only concetrating one part. A part in the first post, and completly ignoring my points in the rest of the posts.

Second:

After the first two patches for BF2 several of the bugs that affected the game play, red-tag bug, unbalanced weapons, and others, were still not addressed. EA also released an expansion pack called Battlefield 2: Special Forces(SF) which was received with mixed luke-warm reviews at best. EA then changed their business model and release two more expansion packs, although they now called them booster packs, called Armored Fury (AF) and Euro Force (EF).

And there are more of that kind of examples, but while he mostly does not directly attack the game and EA/dice in that way his arguments do use it as a basis. And eventually his rant breaks down in nothings more then anrgy unsupported attacks against bf2 and EA/Dice. The whole article is mostly BS, his conclusions are BS. If he clearly thinks the game is made worse with every patch, be it the gameplay or bugs then he most defiantly is one of the folks that just endlessly keep moaing about every aspect, and his whole article rest on that basis. So he is the biggest problem, not dice not EA.

And why not call him idiot. He should check his own arguments before posting it, it doesn't take a genius to realize he's mostly talking out of his ass and blowing things way out of proportion.
Besides that:

What intrigued most of the fans of BF42 was CSS. CSS had the rich environment of HL2 with the fast pace of Unreal Tournament combined with the armament of DC. This made CSS a must play, at least until the hacking began a few hours after release.

I don't know even what to make of this, CSS having the enviorments of HL2 andt he armament of DC, did I miss all the airplanes and helicopters in CSS or something. Sorry but he is all over the place, and probably doesn't even know what he is arguing about anymore.


Edited/added: in case I have not made it clear, I do realize what you are trying to say, and it probably was not smart of me to post my thoughts without explaing them first. I know you are saying that gameplaymechanics has nothing to do with it, I know that. You have lterally said over and over, I do not need to be a genius, and I can understand why you think my arguments do not make sense.

But for his rant/argument/article to work there one must assume that there have been continud bugs, continued introduction of inbalances, continued mustakes. So I assume that he thinks that the game is constantly beeing ****ed up, that is a logical assumption otherwise his article has not basis. Which makes him one of the whiners that ruin the game in my view. Now while Bf2 has been somewhat messed up in my point of view, again mainly because of the whiners, the article still does not work imo because EA has clearly tried to fix issues, has fixed a lot of issues and when introducing new issues like the memory leaks in 1.02 or something like that they immidietly brought out a patch to revert it and fixed it and have continelly done so. So saying EA/Dice do not do anything and don't fix bug does not make sense from my point of view. Furthermore I have seen how the game got more unbalanced and less fun by EA/Dice following the community, now judging by his attitude, his post about css, his unrelenting negatieve view about every little action EA/Dice has done, his rediculus conslusion that EA is waging war against the mod community, he fitst he profile of the Scrub, and thats why I made the post. And thats why I think he has mostly himself to blame and people like him for what has happend to BF2
And besides I argued more points then that and counter

 

[Absinthe]

First Absinthe you are ignoring a large portion of my whole post and only concetrating one part. A part in the first post, and completly ignoring my points in the rest of the posts.

I'm not arguing with the other parts of your post.

But I actually don't want to argue with you because, having had previous experience, the thought of continuing this actually makes me somewhat nauseous.

 

[Gray Fox]

I'm not arguing with the other parts of your post.

But I actually don't want to argue with you because, having had previous experience, the thought of continuing this actually makes me somewhat nauseous.

Then leaving with an insult/attack is not smart, since you can't expect someone to leave it at just that.

 

[Absinthe]

I didn't insult or attack you. My feelings pertain to me.

 

[AmishSlayer]

All of this time EA released all of these expansion packs and was working on BF2142, they put very little thought,resources and efforts into fixing the bugs that make BF2 all but unplayable.

This comment alone is enough to throw his whole article in the trash.

I agree that EA has a shitty way of handling their games (BF:V is the worst), but when it comes to the BF franchise I take it in stride because when you get down to it, the games are really a lot of fun. I think that people are blowing the bugs WAY out of proportion.

So far, bug-wise I have encountered a couple crashes, some rockets going through vehicles when they're at very close range driving straight at me, the red nametag bug 3-4 total times and the "E" bug.

The crashes happened in 1.0 when I had problems with my ram. Nothing else is gamebreaking. They're minor annoyances in an overall great experience.

I would bet money that if EA were not behind the BF franchise and it were some other company, at LEAST 50% of the hate towards the games would be cut down to minor complaints.

The things I wish I could do is destroy the majority of the community that's out there. I don't care if there's less overall players. Most of the people that play BF2 are complete retards.

I'll be getting BF2142.

 

[Gray Fox]

You said a conversation with me makes you nauseous that is a clear insult as far as I can see. You can hide behind the literal meaning of what you said but it certainly suggest an uglinies about conversing with me, and hence is an insult.

 

[Slacker]

This comment alone is enough to throw his whole article in the trash.

I agree that EA has a shitty way of handling their games (BF:V is the worst), but when it comes to the BF franchise I take it in stride because when you get down to it, the games are really a lot of fun. I think that people are blowing the bugs WAY out of proportion.

So far, bug-wise I have encountered a couple crashes, some rockets going through vehicles when they're at very close range driving straight at me, the red nametag bug 3-4 total times and the "E" bug.

The crashes happened in 1.0 when I had problems with my ram. Nothing else is gamebreaking. They're minor annoyances in an overall great experience.

I would bet money that if EA were not behind the BF franchise and it were some other company, at LEAST 50% of the hate towards the games would be cut down to minor complaints.

The things I wish I could do is destroy the majority of the community that's out there. I don't care if there's less overall players. Most of the people that play BF2 are complete retards.

I'll be getting BF2142.

I totally agree with everything you say. I don't know if I'll shell out 50 bucks for BF2142 though, I mean yeah, BF2 is fun, but it's not the kind of game that I play hours and hours a day, I usually only play a few times a week, if that.

 

[Absinthe]

You said a conversation with me makes you nauseous that is a clear insult as far as I can see. You can hide behind the literal meaning of what you said but it certainly suggest an uglinies about conversing with me, and hence is an insult.

Then you assume too much. I simply know that it will turn into a long, multi-page, hostile ****about and I'm not really keen into getting into one of those at the moment.

 

[Gray Fox]

'c mon it's like me saying: Absinthe I'm sick of you.
And then saying: My feelings partain to me.
Besides with who else would it not turn out in a hostile multipage thread, you might as wel only post on hetairia.

 

[TCfromBN]

That was a really, really good read.

 

[63]

That was a really, really good read.

I liked it too

I agree and disagree with the whiner. But I won't get into it because Fox will probably flame me for having an opinion.

 

[Absinthe]

'c mon it's like me saying: Absinthe I'm sick of you.
And then saying: My feelings partain to me.
Besides with who else would it not turn out in a hostile multipage thread, you might as wel only post on hetairia.

*Sigh*

Gray Fox, go **** yourself. You're a moron. You misread everything and I'm not sure if it's intentional or on account of your stupidity, but it is irksome either way.

Maybe you might as well get off this fine online establishment and do us all a favor by playing chicken in traffic. I know I'd feel a lot better about it.

(BTW That was an insult)

 

[CyberPitz]

Come on guys, play nice. This wasn't supposed to start a war, just something to enjoy a read with. I mean, I don't agree on EVERY piece of information that was bolstered, but there are some truths. I mean, red tag bug, how many patches has that been here with?

Not busting on this too hard, because it's a beta....cartillery? Personally, I think they need to take a page from Valve's book...MANY small updates, fixing some important details at a time. That way huge bugs don't appear because you changed too many things *1.3?*

Please stop arguing, you make Baby Ikerous cry.

 

[Leviticus]

Errr. Not to nitpick but he is wrong from the first sentence.

Battlefield 1942, BF42, was the first of its kind. A first person shooter (FPS) that allowed the player to not only run around shooting people, but allowed them to use just about anything in the game. From a tank, a ship, a sub, a jeep, anti-aircraft stations, mines, dynamite to an airplane the possibilities were limited only to a few simple rules: Stay in the map boundaries and learn to fly on your own time not while in a public server with an active game

Operation Flashpoint and Tribes had done that since many years prior to BF1942's release.

I do intent on reading the entire article, but that just bothered me.

 

[TCfromBN]

Read the rest of it. It is a good read, even if you don't believe everything he has to say.

 

[J_Tweedy]

It doesn't really matter if that first sentence is wrong, all he is trying to do is show how much potential the BF series had to become a huge hit.

I agree with most of his post, I think what it comes down to in the end is EA's marketing department working in overdrive and hyping up certain aspects of the engine/gameplay/experience to levels beyond what they can actually deliver. The community is also responsible for this, high expectations will more often than not be disappointed, especially when it involves the levels of expectation surrounding BF2.

It is their continuing inability or unwillingness to fix certain fundamental and obvious issues (such as the red/blue bug, hitbox detection and instability) that existed from the outset that irks me most.

 

[CyberPitz]

It doesn't really matter if that first sentence is wrong, all he is trying to do is show how much potential the BF series had to become a huge hit.

I agree with most of his post, I think what it comes down to in the end is EA's marketing department working in overdrive and hyping up certain aspects of the engine/gameplay/experience to levels beyond what they can actually deliver. The community is also responsible for this, high expectations will more often than not be disappointed, especially when it involves the levels of expectation surrounding BF2.

It is their continuing inability or unwillingness to fix certain fundamental and obvious issues (such as the red/blue bug, hitbox detection and instability) that existed from the outset that irks me most.

That's why the only game I get high expectations over is Half-Life 2. Valve knows how to deliver.