The E3 2004 video, mess ups?

[barnacle]

There are 2 things in the E3 2004 video i have questions about. First off, it shows the same part of the game with striders twice, both times one of the striders shoots at the men near the columns, and the columns break and fall the same exact way both times, even though shot from totally different angles. Second, on the same part with striders one of Gordans allies shoots a rocket and it hits a tree, shouldn't a tree fall if shot by a rocket?or at least break it up.

 

[Shuzer]

I've reviewed the seperate strider scenes, and although he may get the AI hint to shoot that pillar out, both times the rubble seems to fall in a slightly different manner.. I see no reason why that would be totally scripted and the debris would fall about in the same manner, HL2's physics should be able to handle that

As for the rocket hitting the tree.. games just can't easily support fully destructible environments with modern CPUs. Wait a few years, and I'm sure you'll be seeing alot more environment interaction in terms of destruction

 

[blahblahblah]

As for the column breaking thing, we have narrrowed it down to 2 possiblities.

1) It was a scripted sequence. *Gasp*
2) Or there is only one animation for falling columns. *Double Gasp*

For the tree thingy, we could only reason out one explanation

1) Having the tree fall-over/break down would require additional computations/rendering. This would further slow down frame rates - something that Valve is trying to avoid with Half-Life 2.

I really spend too much time at these forums.

 

[ShadowFox]

Is this guy real?

 

[thefiznut]

First post :smoking:

After reviewing the strider scenes also, I saw no similarities in the way the building fell to rubble. If you watch closely, the pillars also break at different heights. After they break, they also tumble in different ways. As for the rocket hitting the tree, I have to agree with Shuzer. The current PC hardware simply can not support that level of interaction with the game enviroment. But who knows, Valve may be hiding something from us.

 

[barnacle]

alright. thats cool.

 

[Shuzer]

I really spend too much time at these forums.

We both do, my friend, we both do..

 

[eraser]

I agree with thefiznut. When they fall, they both topple over in different ways. I took screenshots to show you...

 

[theGreenBunny]

The blast is coming from the same direction, so the chance their fall is in some ways similar is high.

As for the tree, I don't really mind, but I do wonder why they didn't simply make it breakable like the pillars. If the pillars don't eat up too much cpu, why would the tree? Perhaps they didn't think the tree would break realistic enough, so they simply made it unbreakable. Design decision etc.

 

[ailevation]

:x Yeah, I think it would be quite complicated on how to actually make the tree 'look' like it would getting blasted by a rocket or anything else that explodes.

 

[flupke]

only one word is appropriate :

coincidence

 

[Kazuki_Fuse]

Of course the pillars fall differently due to the physics system. The pillars break in the same place because when someone does eg detachable limbs eg zombies cut in half, then they only break in segments that are allowed right? if you hit a zombie in the upper chest I reckon theyd still split in half at the waiste.

 

[Slime]

I still believe in my theory about the trees: Valve has said, that the maker of the map has to adjust breaking points for the objects he wants to be breakable. It seems that this map had no breaking points for the trees, but might not be like that in final version.

 

[petey]

The most likely reason that the tree doesn't fall is: it casts a lightmap shadow. If it were to fall, the shadow would no reflect the motion. While I can't see for certain what kind of shadow the tree casts, such scenery is often lightmapped.

 

[barnacle]

the pillars did fall in the same way, i think your screenshots proved it, no visa versa.
And broke the same exact way on the edges.

 

[MiccyNarc]

the pillars did fall in the same way, i think your screenshots proved it, no visa versa.
And broke the same exact way on the edges.

You must not have viewed his screens, or you need glasses.

 

[lans]

the pillars did fall in the same way, i think your screenshots proved it, no visa versa.
And broke the same exact way on the edges.

Look closely...the broken parts fell in differently, only the part of the pillar that remined looked the same. So while the part of the pillar left will look the same the breakable pieces will (I pressume) to be physically stimulated and fall differently according to the angle from where the strider shoots.

 

[Gunner]

There are 2 things in the E3 2004 video i have questions about. First off, it shows the same part of the game with striders twice, both times one of the striders shoots at the men near the columns, and the columns break and fall the same exact way both times, even though shot from totally different angles. Second, on the same part with striders one of Gordans allies shoots a rocket and it hits a tree, shouldn't a tree fall if shot by a rocket?or at least break it up.

What's your first question Barnacle?

And remember you noticed that the tree didn't go down because it's a vid, trust me ingame when the strider is gonna be pounding the crap out of you and your team you won't stop to notice that the tree is still standing. At least that's how I see it.

 

[barnacle]

I know, i don't care that a tree didn't fall, I was just pointing it out and it would be cool if it did.

 

[ASnogarD]

The tree issue may simply be a case of convieniance... probably a lot of the scenery was there merely as eye candy for the demo purposes so not all objects were created with the idea it must break... we will simply have to wait to see if more complecitivity is introduced in the full ver.

It could also be prudence, if Valve demostrated the tree breaking up in the demo, but realised later it would push minimal specs way up above the target they may decide not to introduce breakable trees, then players who saw the tree break would be dissapointed.

I think a lot of features were disabled to allow for a late decision wether or not to include a feature, if it goes in its a extra if not no loss.

 

[x84D80Yx]

stalker has the trees the same way so its no biggie
http://www.stalker-game.com/index.php?t=game&s=gameplay&ss=faq

Q: Will trees burn?
A: No. Trees will be indestructible.

but...

Q: Will bullets cut off leaves, so that they spray in all directions when you shoot at bushes or trees?
A: Yes, they will.

 

[Gunner]

stalker has the trees the same way so its no biggie

Incredible!... but we're talking about HL2.

 

[lans]

Trees will be indestructible in stalker...

Yep, no current game with good graphics will be able to give you fully destructible environments. Unless you want sprite-like trees crushed underneath tanks like COD or horrible graphics to go with an almost fully destructible enviroment (Solder: secret wars).

 

[RotorHead]

you can shoot trees until the topple over and break in a few game i've played.
:hmph:

 

[SubKamran]

As for the rocket hitting the tree.. games just can't easily support fully destructible environments with modern CPUs. Wait a few years, and I'm sure you'll be seeing alot more environment interaction in terms of destruction

It's good enough that it actually HITS the tree.

 

[wonkers]

Sometimes you gotta wonder why people critique a game that isn't out yet. It's not like Valve is listening to us. Even if they are they won't change any gameplay mechanics.

#1 sign of HL2 bordome........SURVEY SAYS..Talking theoretically about things that DON't EXIST yet...DING DING DING.

we have winners.

what do they get ? JACK ALL! ...jack all? Tha's right this game won't see the light of day. FAbulaz . tune in next week when we disscus turning on all the lights in doom3 to cheer up that dark space.

 

[Shuzer]

the pillars did fall in the same way, i think your screenshots proved it, no visa versa.
And broke the same exact way on the edges.

Is your complaint that the chunks of pillars are identical? In which case, yeah, you're right.
They do, however, fall in a different manner.

 

[SubKamran]

Sometimes you gotta wonder why people critique a game that isn't out yet. It's not like Valve is listening to us. Even if they are they won't change any gameplay mechanics.

#1 sign of HL2 bordome........SURVEY SAYS..Talking theoretically about things that DON't EXIST yet...DING DING DING.

we have winners.

what do they get ? JACK ALL! ...jack all? Tha's right this game won't see the light of day. FAbulaz . tune in next week when we disscus turning on all the lights in doom3 to cheer up that dark space.

Lol, yah, it's true...it's like, "Uh, why can't you wait till it's out..."

 

[Some_God]

I dont care which way stuff falls or explodes... just as long as stuff falls and explodes.

 

[PvtRyan]

Oh, cool, I see we're having the 'OMG not everything is destructable' discussion again?

History is só repeating itself....

 

[barnacle]

I just really hope you can eat bread, kill little critters(ie birds, rats, rabbits, turtles), and dig with a shovel in half-life 2. Then i could kill animals and burry them while i eat bread.

 

[CrazyHarij]

Barnacle, you are the master of ideas.

 

[Pauly]

I bet its not all scripted, mayb just those columns are set to fall so, if the Player goes by them and the AI strider feels like shooting a big shot thingy at you then those pillars are set the fall. No game can have fully destructable environments yet. still will this make you not buy the game??? no, is everyone going to email Gabe or Valve?? maybe some but you got to remember you cant expect a game with everything real as possible.

 

[Aphal]

In the canals part with the flipping cars getting rocket'd before the helicopter part you can see some of the wood is still placeholder HL1 type (same shape peices, bounce a couple times before resting). There was some in the Tunnels bink, but I thought they'd have removed all of it by now.

 

[barnacle]

Do the pieces of wood disappear, or land in abnormal was, like in many other games?

 

[alan8325]

It doesn't seem that destructible trees would be that hard to make or take too much CPU power. All you really need is one breaking point in the trunk and then all the branches could disappear in a cloud of twig-shaped particle effects. That would look pretty good if you do it right and wouldn't be any more complicated than breaking a peice of wood.

 

[Wolf]

Some of you guys need to understand that the game doesn't magically break & fracture things in real time. The Valve artists actually have to design objects as breakable, define where & how they can break and create the debris/crap to spawn when they explode completely. "Scripting" isn’t the issue. Even in the case of completely different dynamic explosions, objects will often if not always break the same way. The only difference will be the physics operating on the bits and pieces not actually how they break.

That's not to say Valve doesn't have a sophisticate materials system, or they won't have put a lot of effort in to making objects break in a cool way...