The Grades Are In

[seinfeldrules]

And it seems like Kerry doesnt have all that much (or anything) over Bush.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8127403/

BOSTON - Sen. John F. Kerry’s grade average at Yale University was virtually identical to President Bush’s record there, despite repeated portrayals of Kerry as the more intellectual candidate during the 2004 presidential campaign.

Kerry had a cumulative average of 76 and got four Ds his freshman year — in geology, two history courses and political science, The Boston Globe reported Tuesday.

His grades improved with time, and he averaged an 81 his senior year and earned an 89 — his highest grade — in political science as a senior.

“I always told my dad that D stood for distinction,” Kerry said in a written response to reporters’ questions. He said he has previously acknowledged focusing more on learning to fly than studying.
.....

In 1999, The New Yorker magazine published a transcript showing Bush had a cumulative grade average of 77 his first three years at Yale, and a similar average under a non-numerical rating system his senior year.

Bush’s highest grade at Yale was an 88 in anthropology, history and philosophy. He received one D in his four years, a 69 in astronomy, and improved his grades after his freshman year, the transcript showed.

I wish my parents would have bought the whole "D is for Distinction" argument, it would have made my life a whole lot easier

 

[DreamThrall]

High or low grades don't mean high or low intelligence... I'm a smart guy, but I was a C student and failed two classes in high school... but that's just because I was lazy.

 

[Feath]

Yeah, maybe he's like me. Can do the stuff but doesn't turn up or revise.

 

[Gray Fox]

High or low grades don't mean high or low intelligence... I'm a smart guy, but I was a C student and failed two classes in high school... but that's just because I was lazy.

Doesn't that kind of make you really really dumb, I mean you have the skills to be a good student and get a good job, now you'll just fry burgers

 

[The Mullinator]

Doesn't that kind of make you really really dumb, I mean you have the skills to be a good student and get a good job, now you'll just fry burgers

Being lazy leaves plenty of room for improvement. If your stupid you are going to remain stupid for the rest of your life.

 

[No Limit]

And it seems like Kerry doesnt have all that much (or anything) over Bush.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8127403/

Well I never joined the bandwagon that Bush is a total idiot in academics, anyone that finishes Yale is a smart guy. But when you are in politics I think you would agree that political classes matter. Bush average for political classes was a "C-"; Kerry as you pointed out was much higher in it. I never actually looked at this transcript and have to admit it is interesting. Didn't know Bush's grades were that high, especially in classes like anthropology.

I wish my parents would have bought the whole "D is for Distinction" argument, it would have made my life a whole lot easier

Are you trying to say that Kerry isn't a smart guy because of his grades? Also, do you hate the guy so much you can't accept a simple (admittingly not very good) joke?

 

[No Limit]

Doesn't that kind of make you really really dumb, I mean you have the skills to be a good student and get a good job, now you'll just fry burgers

That is a really dumb misconception implanted in your brain probably by your school and your parents, which isn't really bad but you have to understand it isn't correct. Many people (such as myself) couldn't perform well in school due to the fact we don't see the point of sitting at home for 3 hours working on a posterboard about team work or doing 30 math problems with the exact same concept over and over again (most of which I still haven't used). This is what I think is wrong with our school system and why so many people not only drop out but also don't do good in the real world afterwards. I was a C student but while I was failing Algebra I was learning about computers and business and that route made me a lot more successful than remembering theorem 3.11.

 

[gh0st]

No Limit, basically everybody who goes to a big ivy league school graduates... there are very few who dont. Professors make it their business to pass students there.

 

[Gray Fox]

Being lazy leaves plenty of room for improvement. If your stupid you are going to remain stupid for the rest of your life.

So what if you improve, if you do not have the education you probabaly won't get a good job, what the **** do you have if you're smart but stick selling womans shoes. If you can't realize that nor that you just have to work hard for a couple of years, so you can be lazy for the rest of your life instead of the other way around.

 

[Gray Fox]

That is a really dumb misconception implanted in your brain probably by your school and your parents, which isn't really bad but you have to understand it isn't correct. Many people (such as myself) couldn't perform well in school due to the fact we don't see the point of sitting at home for 3 hours working on a posterboard about team work or doing 30 math problems with the exact same concept over and over again (most of which I still haven't used). This is what I think is wrong with our school system and why so many people not only drop out but also don't do good in the real world afterwards. I was a C student but while I was failing Algebra I was learning about computers and business and that route made me a lot more successful than remembering theorem 3.11.

It's not a misconception, it's life. Companies don't know if your smart and won't take a chance without you showing them a diploma. If you really have a good job despite your grades, then you are just the exeption that proves the point.

BTW can anyone tell me about the US school system, I mean do you like have lvls after you do elementary school, and what people are allowed in universities. Cause as far as I know Bush and Kerry have an IQ less then 110, and here in holland you do not get in if your not atleast 120. Or work you as off really, really hard.

 

[Absinthe]

Grades be damned.

I performed miserably in school, but it wasn't because I was stupid. I am intelligent, and don't interpret that statement as me being arrogant. I am sufficiently aware of myself to know what I am and what I am not. It's just that I couldn't function well in a school environment that largely foregoed any kind of semantical learning.

I did not judge Bush or Kerry by their grades, since I don't believe them to be good indicators of actual intelligence or real-world performance.

 

[The Mullinator]

So what if you improve, if you do not have the education you probabaly won't get a good job, what the **** do you have if you're smart but stick selling womans shoes. If you can't realize that nor that you just have to work hard for a couple of years, so you can be lazy for the rest of your life instead of the other way around.

You do what John Kerry did. Do bad at first then get better. The best route to success is through learning from failures. If you never have any spectacular failures then you won't be as prepared as someone later on who didn't have any.

It's not a misconception, it's life. Companies don't know if your smart and won't take a chance without you showing them a diploma. If you really have a good job despite your grades, then you are just the exeption that proves the point.

BTW can anyone tell me about the US school system, I mena do you like have lvls after you do elementary school, and what people are allowed in universities. Cause as far as I know Bush and Kerry have an IQ less then 110, and here in holland you do not get in if your not atleast 120.

With computers at least a diploma isn't nearly as valuable. For a lot of companies just have a decent portfolio displaying things you have done can often prove good enough to the company to get you hired.

 

[CptStern]

there's other reasons besides grades in school that proves Bush is a mental midget

 

[No Limit]

It's not a misconception, it's life. Companies don't know if your smart and won't take a chance without you showing them a diploma. If you really have a good job despite your grades, then you are just the exeption that proves the point.

I am yet to apply for a job that has asked for any of my grades. A diploma is seperate from grades; you can easily graduate on a D average. I am not saying stop trying if you are getting a 4.4 average; you will probably have a great life. But by the same token you would be totally wrong to say someone that has a 2.0 won't also have a chance at a great life. I don't recall thinking about my grades once until now since I graduated years ago.

 

[Gray Fox]

You do what John Kerry did. Do bad at first then get better. The best route to success is through learning from failures. If you never have any spectacular failures then you won't be as prepared as someone later on who didn't have any.

No I'm totally confused, for a dutch student to get in to an Ivy league school, your avrage gardes have to be above 7,5 on a scale from 1/10, and that in a school where only the top 10% are allowed to go. How the **** does that work in the US, is it basicly that if you are smart you can get a scholar ship, and if your dumb you can just go buy your way in.

With computers at least a diploma isn't nearly as valuable. For a lot of companies just have a decent portfolio displaying things you have done can often prove good enough to the company to get you hired.

Well thats certainly for gamedev jobs, but for most a diploma will do wonders.

 

[No Limit]

there's other reasons besides grades in school that proves Bush is a mental midget

Especially since there is a good chance Bush's family ties probably had something to do with him getting in to Yale in the first place. But that is besides the point, your grades don't show what an idiot you can be.

 

[CptStern]

not to mention the fact that brother Jeb got him elected in the first place

 

[gh0st]

Especially since there is a good chance Bush's family ties probably had something to do with him getting in to Yale in the first place. But that is besides the point, your grades don't show what an idiot you can be.

And being a senators son didnt get kerry in? Neither of them are particularly brilliant; just talking heads. Dont defend one or the either, its embarassing.

 

[No Limit]

No I'm totally confused, for a dutch student to get in to an Ivy league school, your avrage gardes have to be above 7,5 on a scale from 1/10, and that in a school where only the top 10% are allowed to go. How the **** does that work in the US, is it basicly that if you are smart you can get a scholar ship, and if your dumb you can just go buy your way in.

Here virtually everyone can get in to a university. In New Mexico when I was graduating if you had a 2.5 or above you could get a free ride to a community collage and after 2 years if you keep a 2.5 you can go to a full blown university for a very low price which everyone can afford because of student loans and grants. It's an amazing system that I think everyone should use if they feel they need it. Not to bring good old Bush in to this again but thanks to him this might not be around for long. After all collage graduates usually oppose him so making Americans dumber seems logical from his perspective.

 

[No Limit]

And being a senators son didnt get kerry in? Neither of them are particularly brilliant; just talking heads. Dont defend one or the either, its embarassing.

Of course it helped; family ties have everything to do with getting in to a university like that, doesn't matter who you apply it to. The problem is Democrats didn't usually defend how smart Kerry was by continually mentioning the fact he went to Yale.

And I had to look it up to be sure but I think you are wrong on Kerry's father being a senator; he did work with a senator but was never actually one. He served in WWII then worked for the UN and then for a senator;; I didn't find anything about him being a senator.

 

[Gray Fox]

Here virtually everyone can get in to a university. In New Mexico when I was graduating if you had a 2.5 or above you could get a free ride to a community collage and after 2 years if you keep a 2.5 you can go to a full blown university for a very low price which everyone can afford because of student loans and grants. It's an amazing system that I think everyone should use if they feel they need it. Not to bring good old Bush in to this again but thanks to him this might not be around for long. After all collage graduates usually oppose him so making Americans dumber seems logical from his perspective.

Whats the point of Universities then, I mean they are supposed to be for the smart people, so they can get an even better education, I mena if you allow anybody, don't they have to dumb down the education they offer.

P.S you said avrage 2.5, 2.5 out of what 1/5

 

[CptStern]

you dont need smarts to get into university, all you need is $ ...but that doesnt guarantee you'll do well ...but by then you've already paid your tuition so it's a win-win situation for the school

 

[No Limit]

Whats the point of Universities then, I mean they are supposed to be for the smart people, so they can get an even better education, I mena if you allow anybody, don't they have to dumb down the education they offer.

I don't see it that way. I see it as a way to actually train for the real word. Obviously many people fail and with the crappy job market people that pass don't always have it that easy for them.

 

[Gray Fox]

Aha, see here it is like this, only the top 10% are allowed, and of those that are allowed the ones that can't pay get a grant, the other have to pay.
In collage only the top 30% are allowed, and the rest is the same as Uni.

But tell me do you have lvl's of highschool, like after elementry school, can every student who passed it go in the same school and het teh same education or are people sent to different schools, that like if your avrage was only c, you can only go to a particular lvl of school, but if you had B's you can do that or choose a higher lvl.

 

[No Limit]

Whats the point of Universities then, I mean they are supposed to be for the smart people, so they can get an even better education, I mena if you allow anybody, don't they have to dumb down the education they offer.

P.S you said avrage 2.5, 2.5 out of what 1/5

Out of 4. Here the averages work like this:

F = 0-59% = 0 GPA
D = 60 - 69% = 1 GPA
C = 70-79% = 2 GPA (so 2.5 would be a C average)
B = 80-89% - 3 GPA
A = 90 - 99% = 4 GPA

So having A,A,C,D would give you a GPA (grade point average) of 2.75

 

[No Limit]

Aha, see here it is like this, only the top 10% are allowed, and of those that are allowed the ones that can't pay get a grant, the other have to pay.
In collage only the top 30% are allowed, and the rest is the same as Uni.
But tell me do you have lvl's of highschool, like after elementry school, can every student who passed it go in the same school and het teh same education or are people sent to different schools, that like if your avrage was only c, you can only go to a particular lvl of school, but if you had B's you can do that or choose a higher lvl.

No, until High School there are no levels (though you could be held back a grade) unless the parent chooses to take their kids to private schools. Having grown up for a small part of my school life in Poland I actually did like this system a lot.

 

[Gray Fox]

But I was talking about high school, everyone go's to teh same elmentry school, but after that you have three lvl's

MVBO(70% go here)
HAVO(20% go here)
VWO ( atheneum 8% go here)
VWO (Gymnasium(Atheneum+Latin &/or Griek) 2% go here)

HAVO and VWO are allowed to go to college

VWO is also allowed to go to Uni.

So you can see, there is no room for beeing lazy here.

 

[No Limit]

So you can see, there is no room for beeing lazy here.

Which is why I would probably hate your school system. I think the system we have here works, sure people aren't always going to be able to solve every math problem or know everything about scientific theory but the people that want to succeed and actually work to can (well that was the case until our president ****ed with the economy).

 

[seinfeldrules]

Are you trying to say that Kerry isn't a smart guy because of his grades? Also, do you hate the guy so much you can't accept a simple (admittingly not very good) joke?

Merely a vain attempt at humor on my part.

 

[No Limit]

Merely a vain attempt at humor on my part.

I don't think there is anyway to be humerous on this part of the message board without sounding like a total partisan hack; me included :cheers:

 

[CptStern]

how about "sarcastically funny"? is that ok?

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Anyone who reaches that level in politics (Bush or Kerry) is very smart.

I understand it's a possibility to be borderline retarded and make it into a public office, but being realistic- no.

 

[CptStern]

well it did help that georgies pappy was the former head of the cia and president of the US ...not too mention your brother being the governor of florida


but if what you say is true ...only one conclusion can be made about georgies lack of .....smarts ...lifetime of abusing alcohol ...I've seen it a thousand times (former bartender) ...problems with speech, tendecy to fall down a lot etc

 

[smwScott]

I certainly don't like Bush, but I'm not naive enough to say he's an idiot. He's not a stupid person. Getting in front of the nation and talking like "one of the guys" is what got him elected, and he knew that going in. He portrayed himself as the kind of guy you'd see walking down the street in your average southern town (which he certainly is not, he's as much or more of a snob than Kerry). This is why he's the president and it worked, if I had to bet I would say that he probably talked in a much more coherent and "normal" fashion amongst his peers. Now don't take this as praise for the man - I think he's calculating and deceptive, but not an idiot.

 

[seinfeldrules]

I think people underestimate Bush because of his clear lack of public speaking ability.

 

[No Limit]

I think people underestimate Bush because of his clear lack of public speaking ability.

I agree with that. The fact he misspeaks is simply amusing at times (and painful at others) but I try not to judge him by it. I don't deny he is probably a smart guy academically but I still stand by my claim that he is a total idiot when it comes to policies.

 

[Feath]

I think people underestimate Bush because of his clear lack of public speaking ability.

Don't you mean misunderestimate?

 

[MjM]

I really cant believe this. Is it not plainly obvious that they are all a bunch of idiots.

Bush, Cheney, Kerry ...

If Kerry was smart he would be president. If Bush was smart he wouldn't look like a moronic puppet.


I just hope someone shows up next election, who is vibrant, intelligent, and can deal with some of the ills of the world in a way that doesn't require bombs being dropped.

Derek Obama(sp?). I read about him once in Time, a while back now i think. Is he all that Time cracked him up to be? Someone from who is loved by both red and blue alike, smart, energetic, and sincere? They say potential president.

Its too good to be true, I'm sure, but still what do you Americans think of him?

He's black and has a name that sounds like Osama, i hope you people wont confuse him for ... jks. He's from Hawaii, so maybe he knows how to surf, beats the saxophone, or milking male horses or ... anything male.

 

[T.H.C.138]

I rarely scored lower than a "B" on tests in any subject,I just cut class(to avoid being beaten up by gangsta classmates)and rarely did my homework..

both of which are more important to your final grade apparently than the actual tests of what you learned..

but I would read through the assigned books and study that way..BTW I graduated High School at the age of 16, a 4 hour test that took me 2 hours to finish..

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Derek Obama(sp?).

Obama is charismatic and good at riling people up/speeches but he's a junior congressmen with crap policies. He's better suited as a lobbyist than a politician.