The great art

[eatbugs]

What to you is the greatest of all arts?

for me it would have to be sculpture.

just remember noone travels miles to hear a great story like you would a scuplpture and everyone would rather lose their hearing than their sight, there go music and literature:naughty:

 

[Sparta]

Hmmm....hard to choose.

Music can be absolutely amazing to listen to in person. So can paintings and sculptures.

But i think i'd say paintings over sculptures. Down at the National Gallery of Victoria here in Australia there's a painting called "The Pioneers" by Fredrick McCubbin thats just absolutely amazing. 3 Paintings, side by side of the pioneer days of Australia. They've got to be at least 15 feet tall and 4 feet wide. Each. It's just awesome.

 

[[Dragoon]]

Good question... In my opinion, it comes down to literature and music. Hard to choose between the two, but I guess I'd have to go with literature.

 

[jondy]

It's all down to how much emotive power each genre has.. for that reason I'd say literature or music. How many of you have cried at a painting?

Unless it was ****ing awful, I suppose.

 

[Crushenator 500]

Hmmm....hard to choose.

Music can be absolutely amazing to listen to in person. So can paintings and sculptures.

But i think i'd say paintings over sculptures.

Agreed, music's good, but paintings are the best

 

[Pesmerga]

I'm going with literature. Anyone with a good imagination can paint the hundred masterpeices of art in their mind while reading through the many scenes and chapters of a well written book.

 

[JellyWorld]

That's three people who voted for lit, and only two votes?

 

[TheSomeone]

I'm going with literature. Anyone with a good imagination can paint the hundred masterpeices of art in their mind while reading through the many scenes and chapters of a well written book.

It still requires the artists' imagination and skill :-/.

1. Music. (The great composers.)
2. Sculpture.
3. Painting.

 

[Shippi]

Literature

 

[Pesmerga]

It still requires the artists' imagination and skill :-/.

1. Music. (The great composers.)
2. Sculpture.
3. Painting.

I'm confused...what's the "best" artform or what's the most enjoyable one? Because I really don't think any art is better than the other. But I do enjoy literature more than music or paintings or sculptures.

 

[TheSomeone]

I'm confused...what's the "best" artform or what's the most enjoyable one? Because I really don't think any art is better than the other. But I do enjoy literature more than music or paintings or sculptures.

Hmm... I think "best" is too vague to agree on anything at this point.

 

[CrazyHarij]

I think it's ****ing stupid to compare any type of art. There are things you can convey in painting/drawing that you can't convey in anything else, same goes for music, literature and sculptures.

 

[EVIL]

I must agree with Harij here .. the only thing that they have in commen is that they are all a way of expressing yourself, using it as an creative outlet. That is the only comparison you can make.

wich form of art is the best is personal. you cant say, well 8 voted for painting so painting is the best, thats real stupid. its all personal prefrence. I myself love painted art, and litirature and music. but i cant say, this is better then that, they al have its perpose and mostly, one form cant survive withiout the other. where would I be without music for example, an art form that can is best at setting a mood for any of my illustrations, or how could I have trained my imagination without reading and fantise the adventures in my head.

One thing we can say is that we wouldn't had any of them if we wouldn't had the power of imagination and emotion, and thus only WE! can make this world a better and more richer place by mere expressing yourself in any way possible

 

[eatbugs]

Well I guess the question should be which is the most expressive art form, but you know Harij, philosophers have been arguing this point for centuries. Sculpture was around years before any other art was though...
On another note, Some people seem to think P.C games are works of art. That couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[mchammer75040]

wich form of art is the best is personal. you cant say, well 8 voted for painting so painting is the best, thats real stupid. its all personal prefrence.

He never said it wasnt personal, or that painting was the best because 8 people voted for it he said what was your opinion.

Some people seem to think P.C games are works of art. That couldn't be further from the truth.

Why is that? Maybe not as a whole but their is certainly aspects of it that are considered art, then again that depends upon how you define art in the first place I suppose.

 

[eatbugs]

He never said it wasnt personal, or that painting was the best because 8 people voted for it he said what was your opinion.



Why is that? Maybe not as a whole but their is certainly aspects of it that are considered art, then again that depends upon how you define art in the first place I suppose.

I don't think I should be stating claim to WHY it isn't an art, instead you should be trying to convince everyone else why it is? what aspect makes it an art form? all that you in a game is move a mouse and press some keys, the story is basically laid out for you. It's like calling television an art form. That is why it isn't on the list.

there is nothing better than sculpture, in art people can get away with simply splashing a few colours onto canvas whereas that kind of effort wouldn't cut it in sculpture.

 

[Shippi]

I don't think I should be stating claim to WHY it isn't an art, instead you should be trying to convince everyone else why it is? what aspect makes it an art form? all that you in a game is move a mouse and press some keys, the story is basically laid out for you. It's like calling television an art form. That is why it isn't on the list.

there is nothing better than sculpture, in art people can get away with simply splashing a few colours onto canvas whereas that kind of effort wouldn't cut it in sculpture.

All you do when you look at a sculpture is walk up to it and look. Playing the games isn't an art form.. the games themselves are. The game world has been created by people. And it takes an immense amount of skill, time and talent to make a great game. Like paintings, sculpture, literature, etc each game is made to convey a specific message, story and atmosphere.

 

[pinoyako]

I'm going with literature. Anyone with a good imagination can paint the hundred masterpeices of art in their mind while reading through the many scenes and chapters of a well written book.

is there really a "better" art?

i guess its literaure for me..

but then again, i heard people say that the appreciation for art is relative (there goes the 'truth is relative' debate again.. lol)

 

[CyberPitz]

This was Hard as HELL. Music/paintins/photographs. All of them are the ones. But I will end up have to say photographs.

 

[mchammer75040]

I don't think I should be stating claim to WHY it isn't an art, instead you should be trying to convince everyone else why it is? what aspect makes it an art form?

I didnt say it as a whole is considered an art form, I said aspects of it. Its like the greek vases or pottery you have to seperate form from function. The function of vases is to hold flowers/water or whatever you fancy but its form is considered art. The samething applies to video games: the function for video games is entertainment but its form can be considered art if its intended that way. Hell you even listed visual arts and music which are both components of video games, both considered art. Art defined in its most broadest sense is the expression of creativity and/or imagination to communicate ideas other than its utilitarian purpose.

all that you in a game is move a mouse and press some keys, the story is basically laid out for you. It's like calling television an art form. That is why it isn't on the list

Haha the story is basically laid out for you? Gee that sounds like literature to me and you put that on the list didnt you? Also what is your point about it just being you moving a mouse and pressing some keys? When you're looking at a painting or a sculpture your doing just that...looking at it. And just moving a mouse and pressing some keys didnt keep you from joining a game forum did it?

there is nothing better than sculpture, in art people can get away with simply splashing a few colours onto canvas whereas that kind of effort wouldn't cut it in sculpture.

Ha ok whatever I got the odd idea when I first posted that you werent trying to push your opinion on others and that they had misinterpreted you somehow. I must be mistaken though since you cant seem to tell the difference between one genre of the visual arts and instead sum up an entire medium you know nothing of to just a few splashes of paint. I never heard of rembrandt just so offhandedly splashing paint onto a canvas without effort like you say . Ohh and if you think the sculpture medium doesnt have its share of shitty uninspired abstract art than you're wrong:
http://www.sculpturesite.com/artists/Rosn.lasso

 

[eatbugs]

Alright your logic is this: Any sort of P.C game is a work of art. With my interpretation of art a television show could be just that.

So what if music is part of a game? that doesn't make the game an art. lol

When you read, look at a painting or sculpture you use your imagination to see what the artist intended you to see unless you're a layman that is. A P.C game is laid out for you, not in the way a story is because you would use your imagination to interpret a story. Can you start to see a difference?

Lots of things require skill, but lots of things aren't art.

 

[Shippi]

Alright your logic is this: Any sort of P.C game is a work of art. With my interpretation of art a television show could be just that.

So what if music is part of a game? that doesn't make the game an art. lol

When you read, look at a painting or sculpture you use your imagination to see what the artist intended you to see unless you're a layman that is. A P.C game is laid out for you, not in the way a story is because you would use your imagination to interpret a story. Can you start to see a difference?

Lots of things require skill, but lots of things aren't art.

Music isn't randomly inserted into a game.. it's composed for that specific area to convey a certain atmosphere. When you see the area, hear the music and the sounds, you see and feel exactly what the developers envisoned for that area. It takes a lot of-aw forget it. Nothing anyone says will get you to change your mind, and it's a real shame. There's nothing good about being narrow minded

 

[mchammer75040]

Alright your logic is this: Any sort of P.C game is a work of art. With my interpretation of art a television show could be just that.


So what if music is part of a game? that doesn't make the game an art. lol

Just like I thought you completely missed my point. Did you even read my post? Here I'll post it again for you:
I didnt say it as a whole is considered an art form, I said aspects of it. Its like the greek vases or pottery you have to seperate form from function. The function of vases is to hold flowers/water or whatever you fancy but its form is considered art. The samething applies to video games: the function for video games is entertainment but its form can be considered art if its intended that way. Hell you even listed visual arts and music which are both components of video games, both considered art

Now do you get it? Its form is art because it is composed of just that: art. It doesnt make its function art ,its function is entertainment, but that doesnt keep its form from being art.

When you read, look at a painting or sculpture you use your imagination to see what the artist intended you to see unless you're a layman that is. A P.C game is laid out for you, not in the way a story is because you would use your imagination to interpret a story. Can you start to see a difference?

Please tell me how this is any different than using your imagination to interpret a video games story or art? The fine arts arent the only form of art that requires the viewers participation.

Lots of things require skill, but lots of things aren't art.

...ok what does this have anything to do with my last post?

 

[DoctorWeeTodd]

It's retarded to compare one to another. And what I learned from my brief stint in an art school were that the basic disciplines were: Visual, Music, Writing, Media and Stage.

All are just ways to express human ingenuity and inventiveness. Anything an intelligent being makes may be called art.

 

[Pesmerga]

Well I guess the question should be which is the most expressive art form, but you know Harij, philosophers have been arguing this point for centuries. Sculpture was around years before any other art was though...
On another note, Some people seem to think P.C games are works of art. That couldn't be further from the truth.

I'm pretty sure paintings on a cave wall was the earliest form of "art"

Edit - And if you think making a game isn't an art, then...well, you're wrong. It is. Anything that expresses ones self is art, however minor that art may seem to someone else.

Edit2 - Upon further investigation of your posts, this thread if ****ing stupid, and so is the author.

 

[TheSomeone]

Art (ärt):
n.
The conscious production or arrangement of sounds, colors, forms, movements, or other elements in a manner that affects the sense of beauty, specifically the production of the beautiful in a graphic or plastic medium.

PC games are a consicous arrangement of sounds, colors, forms and movement in order to produce graphic beauty.
They abide by the definition of art.
Hence, they are art.

This argument is irrefutable, end of debate.

Oh and eatbugs, this is for you: click.

 

[eatbugs]

So your definition means that television is art, women are art, a computer screen is art because lets not forget it is aranging the colours forms and movement

you can't seriously believe that can you?

 

[TheSomeone]

So your definition means that television is art, women are art, a computer screen is art because lets not forget it is aranging the colours forms and movement

you can't seriously believe that can you?

Neither of those abide by the definition because they are not conscious arrangments designed for aestehtic beauty (at least not as far as screens and television), you seem to have forgotten the 2/3rds of the definition.

Unless there is a God, then yes, women are God's art. Makes total sense. Otherwise they are a non conscious by-product of evolution.

My argument is still unchallenged. I'm sorry, but dictionary > you. That's like saying you don't think a certain homosexual is gay because he doesn't wear tight clothes. Art is defined by art, art is not defined by you or common conception. That means that they had this definition that encompassed all of man-created aestethic achievments (including movies/games) and called that ART. You're changing the definition of what the word was invented for.

By the way, what you call "my" definition is the definition the word was invented FOR, it is THE official definition, the one you will find in all dictionaries.

 

[TheSomeone]

By the way, you should really learn to form proper arguments like mine.

Premise 1: B encompasses A
Premise 2: C is the same as A
Logical conclusion: B encompasses C

OR

Premise 1: Art(B) encompasses conscious production or arrangement of sounds, colors, forms, movements, or other elements in a manner that affects the sense of beauty(A)
Premise 2: Computer games(C) are a conscious production or arrangement of sounds, colors, forms, movements, or other elements in a manner that affects the sense of beauty(A)
Logical conclusion: Art(A) encompasses Computer games(C).

You can refute my argument by either disproving premise 1 or disproving premise 2. In my case, premise 1 is a given by the official meaning of art, so the only premise you could disprove is 2. Otherwise, my argument reings supreme.

If you come up with a properly structured argument with 2 premises and a logical conclusion, I will take a look at it and disprove one of your premises.

 

[eatbugs]

Computer games aren't bought for people to find a deeper meaning from, they are quick forms of entertainment for the average everyday slob.

Lets say for a minute that computer games are art, what was the first computer game that qualified as art??? yerh

 

[TheSomeone]

You argument contains no premises, two assumptions, the contradiction of an official source, and the start of a hypothetical argument that has not been finished.

You really suck at debating.

By the way, you are an average everyday slob, so I recommend you:

Stop being a self-righteous asshole
Stop insulting the rest of the world
Stop acting like you are the official source of knowledge for art
Stop thinking you overpower the dictionary.

 

[EVIL]

I knew this would somehow transform into a quite meaningless discussion

 

[TheSomeone]

It wouldn't have if eatbugs hadn't gone ahead and imposed his definition of art on the world. (which by the way, we all know to be average slobs and laymen who don't know anything about art, except eatbugs naturally)

 

[eatbugs]

You argument contains no premises, two assumptions, the contradiction of an official source, and the start of a hypothetical argument that has not been finished.

You really suck at debating.

By the way, you are an average everyday slob, so I recommend you:

Stop being a self-righteous asshole
Stop insulting the rest of the world
Stop acting like you are the official source of knowledge for art
Stop thinking you overpower the dictionary.

who are you?
I never said I wasn't a slob in fact I'm probably the finest slob in these forums, why can't you answer the question though? is it because realisation has set in and you know that you are a sophist?
computer games are not art! why don't you browse around on world art sites for expert opinions on the age old question of "What is art?" debated for centuries by philosophers and thinkers the question that the good people here think is the "gayest" question of their lives. Who cares right?

 

[TheSomeone]

Who am I?

Why do I need to know the first game to be art? I don't even know any other games than the ones that came out in the past 5 years, why the hell does it matter what the first game to be art was when modern games obviously abides by the definition?

Stop acting like a snob! That's all I'm asking. Stop using the word "sophist" and "laymen" and stop thinking that you are winning every debate when you have never, ever, formed a fricking LOGICAL ARGUMENT!

AS FAR AS WE ARE CONCERNED, ART IS DEFINED BY ITS MEANING, NOT BY THE OPINION OF PHILOSOPHERS AND THINKERS AND EXPERTS.

 

[TheSomeone]

ROFL, I read about what sophism really is, and it turns out you are the sophist.

"In traditional logical argument, a set of premises are connected together according to the rules of logic and lead therefore to some conclusion. When someone criticizes the argument, they do so by pointing out either falsehoods among the premises or logical fallacies, flaws in the logical scaffolding. These criticisms may be subject to counter-criticisms, which in turn may be subject to counter-counter-criticisms, etc. Generally, some judge or audience eventually either concurs with or rejects the position of one side and thus a consensus opinion of the truth is arrived at. (This is what I have been preaching, read post 31 of this thread)

The essential claim of sophistry is that the actual logical validity of an argument is irrelevant (what you have been doing, read post 34 of this thread); it is only the ruling of the audience which ultimately determine whether a conclusion is considered "true" or not. By appealing to the prejudices and emotions of the judges, one can garner favorable treatment for one's side of the argument and cause a factually false position to be ruled true."

Owned by your own insult.

 

[eatbugs]

The things we are arguing about may require better arguing skills as you call it because this is such a waste of time talking to you about art. Sure art may or may not be computer games but its inconsequencial because noone will really appreciate it as such except you and your tarded up bastard laymen of the forum. I really hope that we can be friends again don't you?

 

[TheSomeone]

Eatbugs I f cking hate you. I'm not kidding, you're probably the worst human being in the world and I just realized that. You are arrogant, incredibly stupid, amazingly hipocritical and you are the biggest troll on these forums. And I hope your feelings are hurt from this post because I'm incredibly depressed by yours, and you really need to stop climbing that ladder of hubris because it's going up to nowhere and you're going to kill yourself falling down.

You called me a sophist twice when this post is the biggest attack on sophist phylosophy:

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1548635&postcount=31

That tops it off for me, you really are mentally handicapped.

Thanks for ruining a perfect day right when it was about to end. I won't let you anymore. You're going on my ignore list until summer ends.

 

[mchammer75040]

you really are mentally handicapped.

Took the words right out of my mouth. As fun as it was Im done arguing over this stupid shit.

 

[eatbugs]

Eatbugs I f cking hate you. I'm not kidding, you're probably the worst human being in the world and I just realized that. You are arrogant, incredibly stupid, amazingly hipocritical and you are the biggest troll on these forums. And I hope your feelings are hurt from this post because I'm incredibly depressed by yours, and you really need to stop climbing that ladder of hubris because it's going up to nowhere and you're going to kill yourself falling down.

You called me a sophist twice when this post is the biggest attack on sophist phylosophy:

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1548635&postcount=31

That tops it off for me, you really are mentally handicapped.

Thanks for ruining a perfect day right when it was about to end. I won't let you anymore. You're going on my ignore list until summer ends.

I'm worse than Hitler? is calling me mentally hadicapped really going to help your situation? We could all get back on topic about which is the greater art?
I'm still sticking with sculpture though