The Hutton report

Sprafa

Sprafa

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I don't think I'm goanna trust any gov from now on.
Lord Hutton gave me some hope when he published the whole thing on the WWW but now...it showed the truth, its a coverup.
Nothing is admitted, everything is denied. Kelly did it all wrong and the Gov was made no mistakes.
I'm watching it right now. Its probably near the end already.
 
Who is Dr. David Kelly??
(I have a feeling this is only pertinent to the UK, if so then N/M)
 
Babywax are I don't know if I'm supposed to laugh or cry on you post.
 
Its some stupid arguement about whether the government tryed to make the Weapon thingys sound more of a threat then it really its, just a load of bollocks if u ask me... i mean who cares?? The media jump on every mistake the government make stupid bastards . On a happier note , yay snow !!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I'm not talking about Kelly, I think he killed himself.
I'm talking about the whole - «Gilligan's afirmations were against the integrity of the Government»
«Dr. Kelly know that his meeting with Mr. Gilligan was illegal»
«The Iraq's WMD dossier was not ´sexed up`, all the accusations were made based on reliable sources, in this case wrong»


And several other defenses for the Gov and agaisnt the BBC.
 
A father of 2 daughters goes into the woods and shoots himself? Why? Because he didn't want to mess up his house in case he survives?
 
jimbones said:
A father of 2 daughters goes into the woods and shoots himself? Why? Because he didn't want to mess up his house in case he survives?
Click to expand...

No. He wanted to no one to find his body.
And probably wanted to **** up the Gov's credibility if anyone did (as he suceeded)
 
whoa by sacrificing himself? I dont know what to think really.. Don't have enough info.
 
That's what they wanted you to think, Badger. Or maybe not. It's all rubbish.
Oh yes: yay snow!
 
he shot himself? I thought he over dosed on medication (purpously fo course) because they found the pill bottle next to him etc.
 
Imho the goverment had their finger in it... It's so blatantly obvious that they lied about the WMDs in Iraq that this isn't funny.
 
MaxiKana said:
Imho the goverment had their finger in it... It's so blatantly obvious that they lied about the WMDs in Iraq that this isn't funny.
Click to expand...
Um, beg to differ.

Dr Kelly, before trying to stop the war once, said, "if this goes ahead, I shall be found dead in the woods".

He killed himself...
 
It's so blatantly obvious that they lied about the WMDs in Iraq that this isn't funny.
Click to expand...

some people are just lost about the war. saddam lost. there were conditions to the surrendeur. he did not obey those conditions. therefore he's outa there. the whole WMD/tie in to al-qaeda was just to get people to support it. because even though it was the right thing to do, people wouldn't support going back because Iraq was not an imminent threat....the "we can deal with it later" mentality.

we've been "dealing with it later" ever since vietnam :\

i dislike the current administrations in the US and UK because they felt that we weren't smart enough to know the real reasons...so they had to make things seem worse than they were...capitalizing on 9/11 fears.

but honestly...what better place is there to combat terrorism than Iraq? Tons of terrorists want to come to Iraq to fight. well they'll be meeting fully armed US and UK troops who are as prepared as possible for attack, and that's fine. i'd rather they fight our armies instead of kill civilians.

of course Bush and Blair's administrations are not full of saints...and i definitely don't support bush's methods leading up to the war, nor his policies for the american economy. in fact, the only thing i support the bush administration on was getting rid of saddam and making Iraq a temporary battleground for the terrorists who want to throw themselves at the full weight of our armed forces.

but now that it's done, bush (and possibly the UK administration...but that's up to you english) needs to go. conservative economics means jobs go overseas and tax cuts for the rich. get the hell out of here with that crap.

anyway, the "lies" you talk about aren't hurting the world. you just feel somehow bamboozled. but take a look at what has happened. can't you agree that the ends justify (well maybe not justify, but mitigate) the means in this situation?
 
mrBadger said:
Um, beg to differ.

Dr Kelly, before trying to stop the war once, said, "if this goes ahead, I shall be found dead in the woods".

He killed himself...
Click to expand...

Yeah! Get 'em, Badger, get 'em!
Feast upon their flesh!!!! :D
 
Maskirovka said:
some people are just lost about the war. saddam lost. there were conditions to the surrendeur. he did not obey those conditions. therefore he's outa there. the whole WMD/tie in to al-qaeda was just to get people to support it. because even though it was the right thing to do, people wouldn't support going back because Iraq was not an imminent threat....the "we can deal with it later" mentality.

we've been "dealing with it later" ever since vietnam :\

i dislike the current administrations in the US and UK because they felt that we weren't smart enough to know the real reasons...so they had to make things seem worse than they were...capitalizing on 9/11 fears.

but honestly...what better place is there to combat terrorism than Iraq? Tons of terrorists want to come to Iraq to fight. well they'll be meeting fully armed US and UK troops who are as prepared as possible for attack, and that's fine. i'd rather they fight our armies instead of kill civilians.

of course Bush and Blair's administrations are not full of saints...and i definitely don't support bush's methods leading up to the war, nor his policies for the american economy. in fact, the only thing i support the bush administration on was getting rid of saddam and making Iraq a temporary battleground for the terrorists who want to throw themselves at the full weight of our armed forces.

but now that it's done, bush (and possibly the UK administration...but that's up to you english) needs to go. conservative economics means jobs go overseas and tax cuts for the rich. get the hell out of here with that crap.

anyway, the "lies" you talk about aren't hurting the world. you just feel somehow bamboozled. but take a look at what has happened. can't you agree that the ends justify (well maybe not justify, but mitigate) the means in this situation?
Click to expand...

You're forgetting the whole Moon and Mars thing. That's one Bush's strong points, IMO.
 
Still I think it's wrong to base a war on lies, I do know that Saddam was terrible and that he should be thrown out of office, wich he was. But they should base their campaign on that if that is what they are gonna do. It's not like i tell someone i'm gonna go to the post office, then instead i go to the store and go see a movie. Wich is rude.
 
GhostValkyrie said:
You're forgetting the whole Moon and Mars thing. That's one Bush's strong points, IMO.
Click to expand...

yep...record budget deficits and and increased NASA budget...hmm that doesn't really mix. of course i'm all for going to mars...i'm a huge sci-fi fan and i've been dreaming about stuff like that since i've been a kid. but it's not a reason to keep bush in office. plus, now it's done...so again, no need for him anymore...the budget is written.

MaxiKana said:
Still I think it's wrong to base a war on lies, I do know that Saddam was terrible and that he should be thrown out of office, wich he was. But they should base their campaign on that if that is what they are gonna do. It's not like i tell someone i'm gonna go to the post office, then instead i go to the store and go see a movie. Wich is rude.
Click to expand...

the campaign WAS based on regime change. the US had been talking about it all through even the clinton years. what i'm getting at is that it's not like the reasons for getting rid of saddam are a secret, but that's just how the US works. it's dumb but it's true:

EVERYONE (not just the government) for some reason has to "hide" the truth (even though it's as plain as day)....and then everyone is "shocked" when the truth isn't kept "secret" anymore.

there are a ton of examples, and they all have to do with cultural taboos. like covering up women's breasts. breasts are kept a secret from little kids for some reason, and then when they see breasts for the first time they're like WOW!!! BOOBIES!!! same thing with if you see breasts on TV. people are like OMG DONT SHOW BREASTS!!! THINK OF THE CHILDRENSSS!!!

people are shocked by obvious and stupid things...because for some reason that's our culture. so when the bush administration "hid the truth" it was plain as day to people who know what's going on. and even the democrats know what's going on...they just use the "shock" of the american people for political gain.

so in the eyes of the "shocked" people, bush's campaign to get the war started was rude and misleading. but in the eyes of people who know what's going on, it's perfectly logical.

and also, saddam couldn't have just been "throw out of office" as you say. it took a war and then months and months before they found him in a hole.
 
MaxiKana said:
Still I think it's wrong to base a war on lies, I do know that Saddam was terrible and that he should be thrown out of office, wich he was. But they should base their campaign on that if that is what they are gonna do. It's not like i tell someone i'm gonna go to the post office, then instead i go to the store and go see a movie. Wich is rude.
Click to expand...

So, you're saying Bush is "rude"?
 
I knew what was going on at the time, I just think it's rude to try to convince the world that they were going to attack because they had WMD that was a threat to the world. IMO they weren't even a potential threat to the world because of all the trade sanctions put on Iraq, Their army wasn't worth shit. The only thing they could have done to potentially harm world peace is to provide a safe place for terrorists, wich they diddn't.
 
MaxiKana said:
I knew what was going on at the time, I just think it's rude to try to convince the world that they were going to attack because they had WMD that was a threat to the world. IMO they weren't even a potential threat to the world because of all the trade sanctions put on Iraq, Their army wasn't worth shit. The only thing they could have done to potentially harm world peace is to provide a safe place for terrorists, wich they diddn't.
Click to expand...

So, Saddam was still murdering and raping his people.
And he had been committing Genocide for for over a decade. If Hitler had fled Germany, or was subdued to only murdering the Jews in Germany again, would you want to stand idle? No, of course not. That's because this isn't about Genocide, it's about Bush. So many people will put the lives of innocent human beings behind a petty grudge they have against Bush.

:hmph: pfft.
 
Im not against the war or the regime change, im just aggainst the lies that they based the war on.
 
I like how the logic of the tinfoil hat crowd works.

1) something happens "it must be the gov's fault!!!"
2) govornment denys it "Of cource they would"
3) There in an investigation "Now the govornment will be exposed!"
4) investigation clears gov "COVERUP!!!!"
 
Oh, erm, GhostValkyrie. The plans to for going to mars arnt exactly noble you know...



I was talking to my physics teacher a few days ago and he was saying that on mars and even possibly the moon there will be many mineral resources for which ever country lands there first because they then get all the rights.

By mineral resources I mean many things. But one of those things is Dimonds!
Many scientists believe that there is likely to be HUGE deposites of diamonds on mars. Some about the size of an average sized house!!!


This is on the moon too remember. Allthough not quite as big....



Now, you can say I am lieing all you wan't or that my teacher is bullshiting. But I don't think he is. He is a Very Very good scientist and has worked with the europian space agency and with nasa. He is very very knowlegeable. And a funny guy too! lol



Anyway, in the long run mineing on mars and first the moon will take place. And this will make sure that Americaa remains the worlds only super power for... well.... Ever!!!




It doesn't bother me in the slightest btw. Its not like my country could ever reach mars or even the moon (UK)
But its beggining to piss me off when people say about how Bushes new plan is all soo brilliant because we are engaging new frontiers. When really he just wants more money and a way to boost the nations morral!





Meh, I have blabed on for long enough. I am gona go and try to lift some weights.....
Emphasise on the try.. :p



EDIT: thought i beter post on topic as well...

I never believed the government in the slightest to be honest. I never thought Weapons Of Mass Destruction would be found. But I did support the war. For the reason that its a good chance to get rid of a very evil dictator. :)
And now the Iraqis get some freedom of speach and depocracy.
Its a real pitty that its still so chaotic over there at the moment. Its giveing the idea of freeing nations from tyrants a bad reputation. :(
 
I'm not going to say you're a liar, or that the reasons for going to the Moon and Mars are noble...I'm pretty sure they're far from it on certain circumstances.
And I'm pretty sure we'll be the first ones to Mars, seeing as we're the only to have been to zee moon.

Though all of the world will gain from access to Mars, we'll surely be #1 in that area. One is surperior Space Travel technology, and two is the fact that we're the ones paying for it.

And it may sound rude, but when it comes to claiming, it's fair game. As far as I'm concerned, the moon doesn't belong to the UN. The only country in the UN that has landed on the moon is...*drum roll* America. Which means that if you consider Space Exploration to reflect that past exploration of Canada, America, etc - We own what we've explored. In fact, I'll be so bold as to say all of it belongs to us. Not that I don't want it to be shared, I do, but it's our flag that's on the Moon.

And one day, be it Mankind survives long enough, our flag will be on Mars.

MaxiKana said:
Im not against the war or the regime change, im just aggainst the lies that they based the war on.
Click to expand...

Understandable. But, they're motives are also understandable.
I could see the lies, but I really didn't care. A lot of people are dumb, and wouldn't simply accept we needed to get rid of Saddam because it's the right thing to do.
 
Yeah fair enough. I don't mind if you own mars and the moon and well the rest of the milky way to be honest. I was just telling you what I had heard and thought.

Anyway, maybe when the middle east finally errupts into nuclear war which is bound to happen eventually you Americans will save us a space :P
j/k ;)
 
It is true that major mineral resources can be found at outside planets.

All US (even most) wars since the Korean War are based on other reasons than the Gov says.
Sometimes the People sees it and others they don't. In this case they didn't even convinced anyone before. Thats why its such a scandal.

And Gv is right about one thing - Saddam had to be removed from power.
Has anyone seen B5?
When Sheridan removes Clark from power the new politicians say - «You were morally correct, but politically innoportune»
Thats not exactly what happened, but sort of. Imagine the amount of support to the Coalition if they said - «We need to remove Saddam from power because he's a threat to the Middle East and we wish to stabilize the region.» And thats what they did. But they tryed to get more support by appealing to ppl's fears on the terrorists. And that was just wrong.

BTW many analists hv considered the hypotesis 9/11 was a Saudi-supported attack. So Iraq was a way to not to depend from the Saudiis anymore for oil.


And why I say its a coverup - Kelly killed himself. I agree with that. But that the BBC and kelly were wrong on saying that the WMD dossier was «sexed up» I don't agree. It was true that they did that, to, as I said, get to the fears of the ppl.
 
Another one of these wake-up-with-keys-stuck-to-forehead-threads...
 
I think he hinted at locking it.... dunno...
 
Why would he do that?
There's no flaming or bashing around here!
 
no one has answered my question!!!!!!111one did he shoot him self or did he OD, cuz i thought he OD'ed.?
Oh and although I don't agree with war in general (not just this one), I know its needed sometimes. What gets me is how we were controlled by our own government through fear. Sorry but that just bugs me. To capitolize on the murders that took place on 9/11 to push your foriegn policy agenda forward is a pretty bad thing in my opinion. Wether they did it for a noble cause, which they say, or for political and financial gain, which looks blatently obvious when you look at the no bid contracts for halliburton and their gross overspending and kick backs from the saudi company, I think its wrong to rule with fear. Its all pretty innocent now, but if they step back and see how easily the masses can be controlled whats stopping them from abolishing our rights for "safety" cough*patriot act 1and 2, or for sending us to even more wars, and stirring even more anti american sentiment in the world and escalating to another world war? I don't care to debate it right now, just letting you all know once again where I stand.
Later!
 
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